Kearly's Random Thoughts

[kearly]

It's a lot easier than asking the mods to set up and moderate an anti-shack forum. That's a can of worms. The last place I want this site to become is another John Morgan-era Fieldgulls, regardless of what the original intention is.

If that ever happens, Kill it with fire.

If done right, it would be like the Danny Kelly version.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

For example, the +/- idea has some promise.

As a Reddit regular for a while, I doubt that will accomplish what we want. "Upvotes" and "downvotes" won't be used to promote civility and constructivity, it'll just turn everything into a popularity contest.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Omg, who the heck cares...

Kearly my best advice to you is, just do you. Don't worry about other people, we all have different opinions and different view points. I only agreed with the majority of your posts like 20% of the time, because I have extremely strong and blunt opinions, but like who cares I still enjoyed the read.

We as people focus too much on what other people think, It's a disease really.

 

[kearly]

For example, the +/- idea has some promise.

As a Reddit regular for a while, I doubt that will accomplish what we want. "Upvotes" and "downvotes" won't be used to promote civility and constructivity, it'll just turn everything into a popularity contest.

That's potentially a downside, true, but it also forces people to think carefully before they post. And also, at least in the Reddit's I visit, I find the community to be very civil. (I've heard the political Reddits can be brutal though).

I used to run a non-sports blog that got pretty popular, and it had fantastic comments because it used an upvote system. The comments with the highest votes were always the funniest or most insightful. Cliques never happened. Many people said the comments were the best thing about the place.

With Fieldgulls, it was a clique because John Morgan wanted it to be. When Danny Kelly took over, the place became much more democratized and intellectual. I can tell you that I wouldn't let it be elitist, and I know you wouldn't either. Who here would be for elitism? Who's our John Morgan? Do we have one?

Maybe I am wrong. I get the cynicism. But it doesn't hurt to give it a try and find out. Or try something else. I just want to explore options and try something. Let's talk ideas rather than talking about why something might not work. It would be a bummer if this is swept under the rug and more of .net's finest continue to disappear.

 

[kearly]

Omg, who the heck cares...

Kearly my best advice to you is, just do you. Don't worry about other people, we all have different opinions and different view points. I only agreed with the majority of your posts like 20% of the time, because I have extremely strong and blunt opinions, but like who cares I still enjoyed the read.

We as people focus too much on what other people think, It's a disease really.

That's not the issue. Having a variety of ideas is the basis of good discussion.

The issue is that we generally post in an environment in the main forum that, drip by drip, slowly ushers away our best posters over the years. There is a saying, "he who leads the charge takes the most arrows." This is why everyone seems highly reluctant to be the next RT guy. Many at .net have recognized this problem. I think maybe it's time to start talking solutions. Even if they seem less than 100% sure to fix the issues, I think it's imperative that we find a way to better accommodate civil discussion.

 

[theincrediblesok]

The problem is we all have emotional attachments to our opinions, it might be wrong and it might be right, but in the end isn't part of the forum to start a discussion? It's like religion and politics sometimes you can't change a person's opinion on those subjects, you can add sports talk to that as well.

I love to hear people's opinion on every subject, as much as I disagree with some on here I still respect them as a fan of our team because in the end we all want the same thing, for this team to contend for years.

 

[hawknation2015]

The problem is we all have emotional attachments to our opinions, it might be wrong and it might be right, but in the end isn't part of the forum to start a discussion? It's like religion and politics sometimes you can't change a person's opinion on those subjects, you can add sports talk to that as well.

I love to hear people's opinion on every subject, as much as I disagree with some on here I still respect them as a fan of our team because in the end we all want the same thing, for this team to contend for years.

Well said.

 

[nanomoz]

But even under ideal circumstances, the resentment and jealousy among select few would probably still exist. I think that particular aspect of it was the shittiest part of it. I've really enjoyed life in the shadows the last two years (while mercilessly stalking Scottemojo).

I hate, HATE that there are people that made your experience tiring and negative, because for all of us that read them with hope of collecting a new perspective and meeting thoughtful discourse, getting to read and hang in those threads was rewarding.

Any chance of contributions to SDB? I miss the days when you and Kyle were both slinging it with Rob.

 

[chris98251]

I'm sorry Chris, but that's just wrong. As in incorrect. Trolling will "kill things faster" than high standards will.

We are limited all the time in how we express ourselves, yet somehow we manage to get our ideas across. The only thing close to unlimited expression here is the shack, and even in the shack there are limits. In the main forum, there are more limits. You don't seem to have a problem with those, as it seems to be your baseline to which you compare the proposed elevated sub-forum.

I wish you wouldn't interpret this idea as elitist. With such an "elevated" sub-forum, there would be no limiting how anyone is able to express anything, because everybody would still have unfettered access to the main forum. And for those who want such an anti-shack forum, it's not an us-vs.-them thing or a 1% vs. 99% or anything like that, because those of us who want to participate constructively in such a forum are not the ones determining who can come in and who can stay.

The idea is to have a higher standard of behavior -- anybody can participate, they just have to be tactful. You could structure it so that people have to request posting privileges, the same way they have to do with the shack. The shack has nothing to do with elitism, does it? The idea of getting permission is, "be sure you know what you are getting into." Alternately, you could allow everyone permission to post in the anti-shack forum the same way we do in the main forum, and just be quick with the temp bans in that particular sub-forum for those who want to push the boundaries or disregard the rules. But curtailing someone's access from that sub-forum wouldn't necessarily impact their access to any place else in .NET.

With such an "elevated" sub-forum

- So a special gentlemen's club, isn't that considered elitist or a special interest forum, or a clique?

it's not an us-vs.-them thing or a 1% vs. 99% or anything like that, because those of us who want to participate constructively in such a forum are not the ones determining who can come in and who can stay.

Who would be making that determination then? We do a screening for members as it is.

The idea is to have a higher standard of behavior

So a 5 start restaurant with a dress code and perceived etiquette of manners and formality versus going to Sizzler.

This sub forum created and set up for a smaller percentage of members that don't deal well with conflict or argumentative posts and the perceived mentality that we are above the fray and know how to be civil and discuss things as gentlemen versus a street corner thug?

That will require time and energy to create, need to be constantly monitored to make sure these elevated levels are adhered to and also deal with the fall out of those not deemed worthy to continue to participate.

The rules and posting guidelines different from anywhere else in the forum would have to be written and who would approve those? I would think the members would have to that want to be in this 125th floor penthouse suite with catered service.


Yes I am being a bit sarcastic, but you also have to understand perception and that what a good portion of everyone else would perceive this to be.

Good manners and morality as well as etiquette should be something we strive for, however....... Some just don't have it or care, we try to glean that from the forums without being overly aggressive to stifle expressions, also some peoples delivery isn't necessarily taken well, the poster is just being who they are but are often thought of as aggressive due to how they deliver what they think.

When you have two extremes it is hard to find acceptable middle ground sometimes without some work, both sides will not be in their desired element, but I think it can be done with effort from both sides and guidance from the staff going forward.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Or are you just trying to push my buttons? You were more than "a bit" sarcastic, and it really said more about you than it did about me.

We already have sub-forums set up for smaller percentages of members for whom they fit. You don't seem to have an objection to any of those. Why do you insist on continuing to call an anti-shack forum "elite"? How can it be elite if everyone is eligible to participate? The only requirement is that people be polite. If you think that is too much of a burden to place on people, then your biases might prevent you from even understanding what is driving the many people who have expressed support for such a sub-forum.

You said you already do screening for this forum. What exactly is the nature of that screening? My understanding is pretty much anyone can get in as long as they agree to abide by the rules. I think that is a good thing, but it isn't much in the way of screening. And it is disingenuous to claim to be screening members when (A) it barely screens anybody, and (B) if it did screen out a lot of people, it would smack of the elitism you seem to be so concerned about.

Your current main forum isn't Sizzler, it's McDonalds. If you don't want anyone here to enjoy a 5 star restaurant because you think McDonalds should be good enough for everybody, that's reverse elitism. And if you don't want the additional burden of dealing with rules or modding an anti-shack forum, I'll do it.

This is exactly what the people were complaining about and needing a place to go where everyone plays nice and speaks eloquently, I have just been personally called out and attacked in a thread about not being called out and attacked, seems that we need a super secret Forum to not have the attack by those not wanting to be attacked but ok'd to attack others to be in.

 

[Laloosh]

Shack this thing already, jeez...

j/k