Kelcie McCray for a 5th round pick

[seahawkfreak]

Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft, although in this case thru trading a pick. Lots of attention (rightfully so) has been paid to the strong picks of Clark and Lockett, but they also traded a 5th round pick (very controversial at the time) for McCray and what they got back was our leader in Special Teams tackles (tied for 5th in the NFL) and now a very competent contributor to the secondary at SS signed thru next year. Schneider and his team continue to amaze me. Great trade.

"Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft..."

Actually the Hawks have managed the draft quite poorly for several years. Many many wasted draft picks through bad trades, poor drafting when they keep their picks.

With Clark and Lockett you have just about their only draft successes in recent years.

Ever since we got the core of the team together (fantastic job Schneider) we have been among the worst teams in the NFL for trades AND drafting AND free agent contracts.

It would be cool if people would hit "refresh" on Schneider's GM profile because he has been awful for quite a while now.

This has to be the worst troll job I have seen in a long time (so long in fact it predates the last good draft by Schneider i guess ... ha). When the backbone of back to back SB teams was built thru the draft (and UDFA is part of that) I would say you have earned your rep. 2012 type drafts (ancient history I know) are once in a generation type events. The team has received solid contributions from picks in 13/14, just not to the same insanely high level. Getting 2 to 3 contributors in a draft is solid and most teams in the league would love that level of draft success . This has been a really tough roster to crack too.

Edit - there is this too. Most pro bowlers drafted in the last 5 drafts and it's not even close. Schneider is so overrated!
http://nypost.com/2015/04/25/an-exhaustive-ranking-of-every-nfl-teamsi-draft-haul-since-2010/

2 or 3 contributors per draft is below average. 50% of the draft picks being contributors is about average. 2013/2014 there were 20 picks; Britt is the only starter. Jordan hill, Luke Wilson, Marsh and KPL are only a few other contributors from those two drafts. Stop being such a homer and see it for what it is. With only 25% of picks contributing (and barely for some of them) Those drafts were busts plain and simple.

50% every year? I could see that for maybe 2 or 3 years but that seems a bit high. Does this also include years when we have 11 picks? Not really buying the contributors side either. What if 50% of our draft picks, over a 4 year period,do contribute but the team sucks? Makes "contributors per draft" irrelevant.

 

[seahawkfreak]

Man, I suck as a seahawk fan. I've never even noticed him in a game or knew he was on the roster. What number is he?

33

And the reason why C. Mike is now #32.

McCrary is now 33

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. The key is hitting more times than you miss.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Actually the Hawks have managed the draft quite poorly for several years. Many many wasted draft picks through bad trades, poor drafting when they keep their picks.

With Clark and Lockett you have just about their only draft successes in recent years.

Ever since we got the core of the team together (fantastic job Schneider) we have been among the worst teams in the NFL for trades AND drafting AND free agent contracts.

It would be cool if people would hit "refresh" on Schneider's GM profile because he has been awful for quite a while now.

So lemme get this straight... Assemble a young roster so full of talent that drafted payers struggle to make the roster and even highly prized veterans can't cut it, and you're an awful gm. That about right?

First world problems in the extreme.

 

[marymoorhawk]

Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft, although in this case thru trading a pick. Lots of attention (rightfully so) has been paid to the strong picks of Clark and Lockett, but they also traded a 5th round pick (very controversial at the time) for McCray and what they got back was our leader in Special Teams tackles (tied for 5th in the NFL) and now a very competent contributor to the secondary at SS signed thru next year. Schneider and his team continue to amaze me. Great trade.

"Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft..."

Actually the Hawks have managed the draft quite poorly for several years. Many many wasted draft picks through bad trades, poor drafting when they keep their picks.

With Clark and Lockett you have just about their only draft successes in recent years.

Ever since we got the core of the team together (fantastic job Schneider) we have been among the worst teams in the NFL for trades AND drafting AND free agent contracts.

It would be cool if people would hit "refresh" on Schneider's GM profile because he has been awful for quite a while now.

This has to be the worst troll job I have seen in a long time (so long in fact it predates the last good draft by Schneider i guess ... ha). When the backbone of back to back SB teams was built thru the draft (and UDFA is part of that) I would say you have earned your rep. 2012 type drafts (ancient history I know) are once in a generation type events. The team has received solid contributions from picks in 13/14, just not to the same insanely high level. Getting 2 to 3 contributors in a draft is solid and most teams in the league would love that level of draft success . This has been a really tough roster to crack too.

Edit - there is this too. Most pro bowlers drafted in the last 5 drafts and it's not even close. Schneider is so overrated!
http://nypost.com/2015/04/25/an-exhaustive-ranking-of-every-nfl-teamsi-draft-haul-since-2010/

2 or 3 contributors per draft is below average. 50% of the draft picks being contributors is about average. 2013/2014 there were 20 picks; Britt is the only starter. Jordan hill, Luke Wilson, Marsh and KPL are only a few other contributors from those two drafts. Stop being such a homer and see it for what it is. With only 25% of picks contributing (and barely for some of them) Those drafts were busts plain and simple.

I think your perception is warped from the historic drafts from 2010-2012 ( which count in Schneiders evaluation, btw) and you also have to include UDFA in 13/14/15. So add Gilliam, Coyle, Bailey, Kevin Smith, Rawls, etc. The jury is also still out on Paul Richardson who when healthy has been productive.

In addition, guys like Spencer Ware have been really productive on other teams but were simply blocked here along with Korey Toomer, Dion Bailey (starting at SS for the Jets) and Obum Gwatchum.

On top of that, we have one of the deepest rosters in the NFL so that has to be taken into consideration. There just aren't that many open spots compared to other teams.

 

[olyfan63]

The 'Hawks roster is a lot tougher to crack than it was in 2010-2012.

Seattle puts more effort into attracting UDFAs than any other NFL team. A lot of draft picks get beaten out by UDFAs. Always comPete. So it could be just as good an argument that we have legitimate competition and a lot of our draft picks get beaten out by UDFAs.

That said, picks in rounds 1 & 2 you'd want to think would be good enough to make the roster and play and truly contribute. We blew a first on the Harvin trade, and have traded out of the first round more than once, so the 2nd round is the best one to use to judge. Just looking at recent 2nd round picks... the CMike pick (2nd) was subpar. Justin Britt (2nd) looks like "OK" value, maybe more. The Frank Clark pick (2nd) is on track to be a steal. The PRich pick (2nd) shows promise, but his body may not hold up to the NFL.

All the 3rd round picks since 2012: Russell Wilson, Jordan Hill, Tyler Lockett.
That's not a bad group. It would be even better if Hill could stay healthy.

So our biggest misses have been CMike (who is now back on the team, wonder of wonders)
and Paul Richardson, who shows lots of promise, and has 2 more years to pay dividends. PRich might well justify the 2nd rounder if he could just stay healthy; his play when healthy was coming along nicely.

Somebody tell those UDFAs to stop competing so hard because it's making Schneider's GM draft success rating drop. Rawls, are you listening? Baldwin, will you stop torching the NFL? Jerome Kearse, no more big game crucial catches, got it? Garry Gilliam, shut it down now! Cooper Helfet, don't turn it on now. Will Tukuafu, no more crushing blocks, OK? Kevin Smith, stop this Husky connection BS NOW. Derrick Coleman, are you listening? Oops, never mind. Patrick Lewis, Alvin Bailey, UDFAs have no business in this league. Stop now. J.R. Sweezy, a 7th rounder is really an UDFA for all relevant purposes. You stop it too.

Now what's fascinating is that the UDFA's are highly concentrated on the *offensive* side of the ball, and heavily in the O-LIne and WRs.

But Deshawn Shead, Mike Morgan, and Brock Coyle, you guys need to stop competing too. Just 'cause you're on D, you don't get a pass on this.

Part of what all this says to me is that Pete is more confident evaluating draft talent on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, and the Seattle drafts reflect that. It also suggests that Schneider is loyally implementing Carroll's will at draft time.

 

[massari]

Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft, although in this case thru trading a pick. Lots of attention (rightfully so) has been paid to the strong picks of Clark and Lockett, but they also traded a 5th round pick (very controversial at the time) for McCray and what they got back was our leader in Special Teams tackles (tied for 5th in the NFL) and now a very competent contributor to the secondary at SS signed thru next year. Schneider and his team continue to amaze me. Great trade.

Talent like Sherman/Chancellor/Josh Norman/Antonio Brown ect ect can be had with a 5th rounder.

Way too soon to tell if McCray was worth it.

 

[hawknation2015]

Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft, although in this case thru trading a pick. Lots of attention (rightfully so) has been paid to the strong picks of Clark and Lockett, but they also traded a 5th round pick (very controversial at the time) for McCray and what they got back was our leader in Special Teams tackles (tied for 5th in the NFL) and now a very competent contributor to the secondary at SS signed thru next year. Schneider and his team continue to amaze me. Great trade.

Talent like Sherman/Chancellor/Josh Norman/Antonio Brown ect can be had with a 5th rounder.

Too soon to tell if McCray was worth it.

Can be . . . but it's pretty rare.

Fun fact: Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman are the only 5th Rounders in the last six years to become Pro Bowlers or All-Pros. That is TWO players out of the 218 players drafted in the 5th Round since 2010 or 0.9%.

 

[Willyeye]

Given the track record of the FO I find it hard to believe they gave up a 5th when they could have offered a 6th or 7th and still got the player.

Having said that, from a pure value standpoint, just on his ST contributions alone he's worth a 5th. The fact that he looks like he can step in and contribute at SS is just icing on the cake.

They probably offered a 7th round pick and KC turned them down. They couldn't offer a 6th rounder because they didn't have one to trade...they traded it away earlier for CB Mohammed Seisay...I think he's on the IR. The good news is that the Hawks as of now have 3 comp picks...3rd round, 5th and 6th. They won't be official until next Spring, but they can't be traded anyway.

 

[sutz]

You really have to weight those picks a bit. For one thing, as a successful franchise, which is to say one that makes the playoffs every year, picks get shifted to the back of the round. Therefore, our 5th rounders are lesser talents (well supposedly) than the ones a team gets that picks in the front 10 picks of the draft, the bottom dwellers of the league. After that, well it is certainly harder to crack the roster of a SB team than someone picking first in every round.

These arguments are tiresome. It's not like a single pick has been the death of the franchise, like you see around the league with those teams that pick first overall and hamstring themselves for 5 years because of one bad contract.

 

[massari]

Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft, although in this case thru trading a pick. Lots of attention (rightfully so) has been paid to the strong picks of Clark and Lockett, but they also traded a 5th round pick (very controversial at the time) for McCray and what they got back was our leader in Special Teams tackles (tied for 5th in the NFL) and now a very competent contributor to the secondary at SS signed thru next year. Schneider and his team continue to amaze me. Great trade.

Talent like Sherman/Chancellor/Josh Norman/Antonio Brown ect can be had with a 5th rounder.

Too soon to tell if McCray was worth it.

Can be . . . but it's pretty rare.

Fun fact: Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman are the only 5th Rounders in the last six years to become Pro Bowlers or All-Pros. That is TWO players out of the 218 players drafted in the 5th Round since 2010 or 0.9%.

My point wasn't just aimed towards 5th round pro bowlers or all pro's (don't know where you got that from) . The point was there's a lot of great talent that can be had with a 5th rounder judging by the amount of good/great players taken with a 5th/6th/7th/UDFA.

How can someone declare trading a 5th for McCray a "great trade" this early.

 

[SeahawksBMX]

Man, I suck as a seahawk fan. I've never even noticed him in a game or knew he was on the roster. What number is he?

33

And the reason why C. Mike is now #32.

McCrary is now 33

And the reason why C. Mike is now #32.

 

[bigskydoc]

You really can't evaluate the draft skill and success of Pete and John without considering the contributions of Scot McLoughan. Pete and John had a great (pre-McLoughan) 2010 draft haul of Thomas, Tate, Okung, Chancellor, and Thurmond, but the bulk of our stars were obtained while McLoughan was an integral part of our scouting and talent evaluation program. Looking at his prior history with the Packers, Hawks, Niners, and back to the Hawks, his effect on scouting and turning an organization around is undeniable. Shame about the alcohol problem.

The drafts since he left have been filled with people who have been unable to crack a stacked roster. Is it because the roster he built is so good that drafting better players is a Herculean task? That certainly contributes, but the undeniable success of our UDFAs would argue that there is room on the roster, we just aren't drafting good enough to take those spots.

However, we aren't in a rebuilding mode. We don't need to be drafting core players right now. We can afford to take some gambles on high ceiling players who may not contribute immediately. Part of what makes Scot's legend so powerful is that he leaves when the rebuilding process is complete and the tougher job of maintaining that roster with picks from the lower end of the draft round begins.

I would say the jury is still out on Schneider and Carroll in terms of their draft success. McLoughan has a proven track record with multiple teams. Since he left, we have struggled to get drafted players on the field, instead we are filling the holes with UDFAs. The most recent draft shows promise though.



-bsd

 

[hawknation2015]

You really can't evaluate the draft skill and success of Pete and John without considering the contributions of Scot McLoughan. Pete and John had a great (pre-McLoughan) 2010 draft haul of Thomas, Tate, Okung, Chancellor, and Thurmond, but the bulk of our stars were obtained while McLoughan was an integral part of our scouting and talent evaluation program. Looking at his prior history with the Packers, Hawks, Niners, and back to the Hawks, his effect on scouting and turning an organization around is undeniable. Shame about the alcohol problem.

The drafts since he left have been filled with people who have been unable to crack a stacked roster. Is it because the roster he built is so good that drafting better players is a Herculean task? That certainly contributes, but the undeniable success of our UDFAs would argue that there is room on the roster, we just aren't drafting good enough to take those spots.

However, we aren't in a rebuilding mode. We don't need to be drafting core players right now. We can afford to take some gambles on high ceiling players who may not contribute immediately. Part of what makes Scot's legend so powerful is that he leaves when the rebuilding process is complete and the tougher job of maintaining that roster with picks from the lower end of the draft round begins.

I would say the jury is still out on Schneider and Carroll in terms of their draft success. McLoughlan has a proven track record with multiple teams. We still struggle to get drafted players on the field, instead we are filling the holes with UDFAs. The most recent draft shows promise though.



-bsd

McLoughan was here for that 2013 draft, but your point is well taken. McLoughan is an excellent evaluator of talent.

 

[hawknation2015]

Once again, the FO shows how well they manage the draft, although in this case thru trading a pick. Lots of attention (rightfully so) has been paid to the strong picks of Clark and Lockett, but they also traded a 5th round pick (very controversial at the time) for McCray and what they got back was our leader in Special Teams tackles (tied for 5th in the NFL) and now a very competent contributor to the secondary at SS signed thru next year. Schneider and his team continue to amaze me. Great trade.

Talent like Sherman/Chancellor/Josh Norman/Antonio Brown ect can be had with a 5th rounder.

Too soon to tell if McCray was worth it.

Can be . . . but it's pretty rare.

Fun fact: Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman are the only 5th Rounders in the last six years to become Pro Bowlers or All-Pros. That is TWO players out of the 218 players drafted in the 5th Round since 2010 or 0.9%.

My point wasn't just aimed towards 5th round pro bowlers or all pro's (don't know where you got that from) . The point was there's a lot of great talent that can be had with a 5th rounder judging by the amount of good/great players taken with a 5th/6th/7th/UDFA.

How can someone declare trading a 5th for McCray a "great trade" this early.

My point was that the probability is very small that a team will select a premier talent toward the end of the draft. It is a crapshoot. This was a calculated opportunity cost; how many players have we drafted around that range who have not panned out? Trading for McCray guaranteed us the two things we need right now:

(1) One of the better special teamers in the league. Statistically, McCray was the most efficient Vise/Hold Up last season. He has filled a critical role on special teams, especially after having to IR Ricardo Lockette.

(2) A backup safety with some experience and high upside. After having to rely on inexperienced, non-drafted safeties at the beginning of the season, having an athlete like McCray to fill in at this moment is invaluable.

While you're right that we don't have enough information to call it a "great trade," yet, it's easy to view it as a defensible trade.

 

[Largent80]

And today he makes his first start with us. Awesome

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Given the track record of the FO I find it hard to believe they gave up a 5th when they could have offered a 6th or 7th and still got the player.

Having said that, from a pure value standpoint, just on his ST contributions alone he's worth a 5th. The fact that he looks like he can step in and contribute at SS is just icing on the cake.

They probably offered a 7th round pick and KC turned them down. They couldn't offer a 6th rounder because they didn't have one to trade...they traded it away earlier for CB Mohammed Seisay...I think he's on the IR.The good news is that the Hawks as of now have 3 comp picks...3rd round, 5th and 6th. They won't be official until next Spring, but they can't be traded anyway

They can be traded away beginning next draft.

 

[King Dog]

Given the track record of the FO I find it hard to believe they gave up a 5th when they could have offered a 6th or 7th and still got the player.

Having said that, from a pure value standpoint, just on his ST contributions alone he's worth a 5th. The fact that he looks like he can step in and contribute at SS is just icing on the cake.

They probably offered a 7th round pick and KC turned them down. They couldn't offer a 6th rounder because they didn't have one to trade...they traded it away earlier for CB Mohammed Seisay...I think he's on the IR.The good news is that the Hawks as of now have 3 comp picks...3rd round, 5th and 6th. They won't be official until next Spring, but they can't be traded anyway

They can be traded away beginning next draft.

I don't believe that is correct. I believe it's the draft after next. I could be wrong though.

 

[Willyeye]

I think too many Hawk fans have been spoiled by 3 of the best drafts in NFL history.. There are a lot of factors that influence draft results.

1. The Seahawks roster was loaded with so much talent by 2013, not only did they win the SB by a blowout, but it makes it nearly impossible to crack the roster. There is really no way to evaluate a player's potential in this league until they have at least played a season or two in it...the key word there being "played"...with that roster, it was literally impossible to make the roster by strictly going to practice. It takes a lot of snaps to get the experience necessary to become a star, and sometimes it takes an injury for a backup player to get the snaps necessary to really show their stuff. The jury is still out on a number of picks from 2013 & 2014. The point is, just because a player doesn't make the starting lineup in their first few seasons, it doesn't mean that they won't still make it. It could just mean the roster is/was loaded. It took Rodgers 3 years to become a starter.

2. Injuries are the bane of the NFL. Think about how many Pro Bowlers and All Pros there are on the IR this season. Does that make them poor draft picks? Injuries happen regardless of how good of a draft pick a player is. Guys like Lane and Richardson were probably really good picks, but their playing time has been limited, and we don't truly know how good they would be had they not been injured. Wake, Charles, McCourty, Cruz, Bethea, Nelson, Flacco, Solder, Suggs, Benjamin, Quinn, Graham, Rawls, Bell, and dozens more quality players are on the IR this year. Were all these players bad picks/acquisitions? And how is anyone supposed to evaluate the quality of a pick when the player is injured. And to say or think that any player was predestined to get injured, and/or that the GM or HC should have known better, is ridiculous.

3. We all know that the Seahawks are by far the best at procurring UDFA's. This is a huge part of finding new players for the Seahawks, and it is every bit as important as the actual draft. I don't see that this avenue has waned in any way.

4. One of the negative aspects of winning so much is the fact that every team in the league is probably a bit jealous. I'm pretty sure a lot of teams look at our practice squad and/or players that are cut when going from 90 to 53, and they see a gold mine of players to poach from us. I still think that Rod Smith would have been the perfect guy to bring in when Rawls went down, but unfortunately he is an active roster player on the Cowboys.

5. Trades have been a rough road for the Seahawks. I consider them more of an experiment. Taking a 22 year-old kid and molding them to fit the team is obviously much easier than trying to fit a diva like Harvin onto the team. I would say the jury is still out on Graham. I think trying to use him as a TE blocker was a fail, but that's on the OC. The Saints used him a lot as a WR. Perhaps the OC should have followed that model. Either way, given that the Hawks are not near the passing team that the Saints are, Graham's numbers were actually pretty good, and had he not been injured, I think he would have had a great season had he been available to play in Wilson's apparent transition to elite status. I would also say this...a trade for a guy like Burley doesn't seem like much of a success story so far, but he could have actually been our savior for SB49. Tharold Simon, a draft pick who had a great season in 2014, dislocated his shoulder in Week 16. He truly should have been IR'ed...face it, he's no Earl Thomas. Then Maxwell got sick before the Divisional Round game against the Panthers, and Simon replaced him...he got schooled by Cam Newton in that game...he could barely run and tackle, obviously playing through a lot of pain. SB49 came...Carroll decided to keep Simon active and make Burley inactive. When Lane was injured, Carroll switched Maxwell to nickel and put in the injured Simon at RCB. Simon pretty much lost that game in the 4th quarter, but he honestly shouldn't have been playing. Had Burley been active, Pete could have replaced Lane with Burley at nickel, and left Maxwell at RCB. TB would not have engineered two TD drives in the 4th quarter and the Hawks would have won. Point being, Burley was the better choice, but it is clear example of how difficult it is for any new player to become a star on this team.

6. It's also silly to expect to get the best picks when your #31 or #32 pick in the first round is essentially a second round pick. In the case of the Seahawks, given trades in recent seasons, you might as well consider them to not even have any 1st OR 2nd round picks. Their 2nd round picks are realistically 3rd round picks, and their 3rd round picks are 4th rounders.

 

[Seanhawk]

Man, I suck as a seahawk fan. I've never even noticed him in a game or knew he was on the roster. What number is he?

33

And the reason why C. Mike is now #32.

McCrary is now 33

No, McCrary was #99.