Kelvin Benjamin..could've been a Seahawk?

[jake206]

Excerpt from Pete Carroll conference call with Carolina media <courtesy of Black and Blue Review>:

RE: What do you think of Kelvin Benjamin and how does your secondary match up against him?

“He’s a player we loved and coveted when he was in college. The big receiver and we tried to get it done here when we came here. There’s such a factor that favors the big guy when he has the kind of catching range that Kelvin has. You can see how quickly they’ve focused on him, and obviously Cam gets it and he knows how to go to him and put the ball places that are available to him and nobody else. He’s got extraordinary catching range and the body and the length that he has can keep defensive backs away from him. We have a little bit better shot than some of the teams. The teams that are playing with corners that are 5-11, it’s a big mismatch with six inches of height and weight and all of that.”

RE: Was Kelvin a guy that you guys looked at before trading out of the first round?

“Sure. I don’t miss guys like that now. We have great regard for those guys. We didn’t get it done, but he’s still a fantastic player.”

 

[HawkWow]

"Impossible, he was drafted before our pick".

^ Not my words.

FSU, until this year, is a team I typically keep an eye on. I agreed with the consensus that felt he dropped too many balls, but worse, I didn't want him because I felt he'd be a reach based on Pete's alleged desire for tall receivers. I was afraid Kelvin wasn't much more than that and I was very wrong about him. IF Pete wanted him, he didn't try very hard to get him. It was no secret that Carolina, picking @28 (?) was going to draft the position, so if Pete really wanted him, he knew he had to get to 27, which wouldn't have cost a fortune to move up those 4 spots, that late in the rd.

I think it much more likely Pete and John knew they could trade back and get a guy more resembling Harvin. With that, I think it sorta' suggests Pete is more about skill sets than he is about Height. As he should be, imo. But would I rather have Kelvin than Richardson? Probably, but Richardson's sample size is too small to truly make that determination and it's a topic that should be revisited after Richardson has about 100 targets, imo.

 

[Basis4day]

It wouldn't shock me. They were clearly looking at WR by picking Richardson early and later drafting Norwood. Percy situation sheds some light on that.

But he was taken by the Panthers before we had a shot at him so it's doesn't bother me in hind-site.

 

[pehawk]

"Impossible, he was drafted before our pick".

^ Not my words.

FSU, until this year, is a team I typically keep an eye on. I agreed with the consensus that felt he dropped too many balls, but worse, I didn't want him because I felt he'd be a reach based on Pete's alleged desire for tall receivers. I was afraid Kelvin wasn't much more than that and I was very wrong about him. IF Pete wanted him, he didn't try very hard to get him. It was no secret that Carolina, picking @28 (?) was going to draft the position, so if Pete really wanted him, he knew he had to get to 27, which wouldn't have cost a fortune to move up those 4 spots, that late in the rd.

I think it much more likely Pete and John knew they could trade back and get a guy more resembling Harvin. With that, I think it sorta' suggests Pete is more about skill sets than he is about Height. As he should be, imo. But would I rather have Kelvin than Richardson? Probably, but Richardson's sample size is too small to truly make that determination and it's a topic that should be revisited after Richardson has about 100 targets, imo.

Yup, Richardson was drafted to be Percy's roster-double. In fact, if you look at all of the 2014 draftees you can directly connect them to a type already on the roster.

Which begs the question; is a big WR still something they covet? Aside from trade grumblings, all rumor, there's actually little evidence they're still smitten with the big WR idea.

Personally, I think it has more to do with devaluing WR's in general, based on a number of factors.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Benjamin went to a much different situation in Carolina than he would have been here. Assuming the season played out the same and Benjamin was just swapped for Richardson.. I have a hard time believing Kelvin really gets much reps in this offense.

Compare that to Carolina where they were absolutely desperate for receivers in general.. and they inserted Benjamin in the lineup from the get go. I too thought he was going to be a bust because of his dropsies and he had reports of laziness amongst other things.. and while he still has dropped some passes.. he sure looks like he will be a good player in this league for a long time.

 

[DavidSeven]

Pete probably would've given that same answer (or some variation thereof) to every receiver taken in the first two rounds. I can't imagine him responding to a question like that by listing all of the receiver's deficiencies and then saying "no, we didn't look at him at all." It was basically the same thing he said about Cordarrelle Patterson last year before playing the Vikings (i.e. "we loved his skills, thought highly of him in the draft."). Pretty typical coach-speak. I wouldn't take those words to infer that they had any interest in drafting a specific guy over other prospects.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

I think that over time if Norwood and Richardson don't turn into the players we hope then it could be Cody Latimer we rue not taking. I think he is going to be a great receiver.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Sounds like maybe we tried to trade up to get Benjamin, but couldn't work it out.

Not really huge news, Pete could probably name 40 players over the past 5 years that they had on their radar to trade up or back trying to draft.

 

[pehawk]

My favorite hindsight commentary about a player they could've drafted was about Kap "we liked him as a runner".

 

[DavidSeven]

I think they went into that first round wanting Richardson and expecting to trade back for more picks. If Benjamin fell, who knows? However, I don't think a trade up was in play (obviously just guessing here). They went into that draft with limited draft capital already (due to SB win and owing their 3rd to Minnesota). It wouldn't be like them to give away even more of it to obtain one prospect, especially with multiple roster losses looming as they were this offseason.

 

[Scottemojo]

I remember Pete saying they had their eyes on Dalton.

*shudders*

 

[pehawk]

I remember Pete saying they had their eyes on Dalton.

*shudders*

Lets be fair, Prisco told me there's 20 GM's who think Dalton would've won a ring with the 2013 Seahawks as well. Makes sense, historically Dalton fares well under pressure and vs top 10 defenses. And, all things being equal, the Bengals & Seahawks OL and WR groups are equal.

 

[kearly]

Benjamin fit both JS's and PC's draft profiles like a glove. They love physically talented WRs with coachable issues.

I on the other hand, was scared to death of Benjamin's stone hands, extremely poor route running, attitude, and work ethic. But did he have #1 WR tools? Absolutely.

I had a few posts in the draft forum in the spring predicting that Benjamin would be the player I hated the most that PC/JS would sprint hardest to the podium for had he made it to #32.

All that being said, I think most of us look at the draft in the wrong way. It's not about how much a player can help a team, it's about how much a team can help a player. I still contend that Mark Sanchez was an above average QB prospect in 2009, but when he went to the Jets, that was a career death sentence. Now he's with the Eagles and while it's only preseason, he has looked fantastic in their system with the coaching support he's gotten there.

And it's not like Sanchez was the only USC QB to play like a stud under Pete Carroll only to fall apart when moving to play for a new coach and organization. Sometimes certain kind of players are pass/fail, and they need a very specific kind of environment to blossom.

Another recent example of this is McCown in Tampa. With Trestman's system and receivers he was borderline elite, better than Cutler even. But the rest of his career he's just been a journeyman backup.

I liked Geno Smith in 2013. I thought for a team like Seattle or Philly he'd be just fine. Maybe the Pats too. But sending him to a Rex Ryan team that builds an offense the way a 5 year old builds a fort out of Lincoln Logs... I gave up on the guy before he had even taken his first NFL snap.

Now to the point. Kelvin Benjamin. I thought he was a surefire bust for most teams, but when he went to Carolina it was a bit of a "oh hey" moment that felt like the reverse of Geno to the Jets. Benjamin needs a strong armed QB who is willing to take chances to well covered receivers. Cam needs a wide catch radius WR who can help compensate for his less than pin-point accuracy.

Benjamin would get the opportunity and targets immediately due to lack of options, and he's the kind of WR that can still bring in a catch even if you double team him. This was a match made in heaven for Benjamin. Even though I trashed him so much before the draft, I was so upbeat about his prospects in Carolina that I actually drafted him with a decent pick in fantasy and have been starting him every week. And one of my golden rules in fantasy is to never draft/start rookie WRs. But that's how good of a fit he is in Carolina.

 

[pehawk]

Now to the point. Kelvin Benjamin. I thought he was a surefire bust for most teams, but when he went to Carolina it was a bit of a "oh hey" moment that felt like the reverse of Geno to the Jets. Benjamin needs a strong armed QB who is willing to take chances to well covered receivers. Cam needs a wide catch radius WR who can help compensate for his less than pin-point accuracy.

Benjamin would get the opportunity and targets immediately due to lack of options, and he's the kind of WR that can still bring in a catch even if you double team him. This was a match made in heaven for Benjamin. Even though I trashed him so much before the draft, I was so upbeat about his prospects in Carolina that I actually drafted him with a decent pick in fantasy and have been starting him every week. And one of my golden rules in fantasy is to never draft/start rookie WRs. But that's how good of a fit he is in Carolina.

+1

 

[HawkWow]

Excellent Kearly. And your honesty admirable. It's not easy to be wrong on players that end up immediate contributors, even if in a different situation.

I was against taking a WR at all (excepting Norwood in the 4th...brilliant, imo) but only because I wanted OL or TE. I watched Richardson a ton and knew a lot about him (good and bad) while at Colorado (and UCLA). My own wants aside, I was happy Richardson was joining the team. At the time, I wasn't aware we were dealing with the same old Percy, but I felt we got his clone prepping for Harvin's next injury. Obviously the pick makes a ton of sense now.

What little I've seen of Rich as a hawk doesn't remind me of the Rich of Colorado. Perfectly normal, I'm sure he has some jitters. At CU, he was a picture of confidence and oft times the best player on the field..for either team. I believe Harvin's jettison will bring that guy back and for those that are unfamiliar with (a healthy) Richardson, I think you will ultimately be pleasantly surprised. He's not the track start playing football some have erroneously painted him to be. He's just a very, very fast WR with good hands and excellent ability when it comes to tracking the ball. He will be good for us.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Benjamin was my number 1 prospect I hoped would still be available at 32. I didn't know if his personality would fit in with the club, but thought his abilities could fit in with any team who is willing to play to his strengths. He's a down-the-field threat who can snatch the ball over any corner (something the team lost when letting Tate go in free agency) and his red-zone ability would have been something we haven't had since Pete got here.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

I remember Pete saying they had their eyes on Dalton.

*shudders*

Lets be fair, Prisco told me there's 20 GM's who think Dalton would've won a ring with the 2013 Seahawks as well. Makes sense, historically Dalton fares well under pressure and vs top 10 defenses. And, all things being equal, the Bengals & Seahawks OL and WR groups are equal.

So 20 GMs guessed that under a hypothetical scenario that can never happen something else would have happened? Sounds legit

 

[HawkWow]

I don't think talk of Richardson here would be derailing. In my previous post I mentioned he looked a bit timid compared to his style of play at CU. I attributed that to NFL jitters. Thinking more about it, it's likely he was also intimidated by the presence of Harvin. Certainly Harvin knew why the closest player to him in the draft was drafted, and I have to think Richardson (and the team) knew this as well. Had to be pretty uncomfortable for the rook. With that, I so look forward to seeing Richardson bring the swag he was once noted for. The kid can play and may very well prove to be the better pick between he and Benjamin.

 

[pehawk]

I don't think talk of Richardson here would be derailing. In my previous post I mentioned he looked a bit timid compared to his style of play at CU. I attributed that to NFL jitters. Thinking more about it, it's likely he was also intimidated by the presence of Harvin. Certainly Harvin knew why the closest player to him in the draft was drafted, and I have to think Richardson (and the team) knew this as well. Had to be pretty uncomfortable for the rook. With that, I so look forward to seeing Richardson bring the swag he was once noted for. The kid can play and may very well prove to be the better pick between he and Benjamin.

I 100% agree with this. Richardson is a little swagger away from making an impact. He's fast, duh, but everything he does looks crisp and easy. Dude produced when he was literally the only Pac12 caliber player on his offense. He was the only dude who merited consideration on the Buffs, and he still produced.

I want him to get a jet sweep a game too.

 

[Seanhawk]

I don't think talk of Richardson here would be derailing. In my previous post I mentioned he looked a bit timid compared to his style of play at CU. I attributed that to NFL jitters. Thinking more about it, it's likely he was also intimidated by the presence of Harvin. Certainly Harvin knew why the closest player to him in the draft was drafted, and I have to think Richardson (and the team) knew this as well. Had to be pretty uncomfortable for the rook. With that, I so look forward to seeing Richardson bring the swag he was once noted for. The kid can play and may very well prove to be the better pick between he and Benjamin.

I remember hearing an interview with Richardson during either training camp, or one of the mini-camps, and he was talking about the vets who had been helping him get acclimated. He basically mentioned every receiver on the roster, except Percy.