Key to this seasons turnaround: Trading Percy Harvin

[akscoundrel]

Sure dude, they are totally refusing to throw Percy the ball deep when he is open...

That offense rolls through Geno, who missed Percy deep last night with a deep ball. It isn't a matter of politics, it is matter of QB/WR continuity.

Seattle targeted Percy an average of less than 3.5 yards down field. The Jets have been targeting him about 3 times deeper. They just aren't connecting.

Name me a QB who has established a good deep ball rapport with Percy.

Sure, but there's also a reason why geno had been benched recently. He wasn't hitting anybody. Hence the joke when the trade happened; geno smith will miss Percy more than we miss him.

And your question was answered which kind of dismantles where you are trying to go.

My question was generalized. How many times did Favre target Percy deep? Success %?

I don't have those answers. I can tell you that in 30 games during Favre's 2 years, Percy had 3 games over 100 yds receiving, and 27 plays over 20 yards. Less than one 20 plus play per game. In the two seasons after Favre left? 25 games, 22 receptions over 20 yards and 5 games with more than 100 yards recieving. Perhaps his time with Favre has been romanticized a bit?

If you're just going to judge Percy by his down field production, then sure, you could probably paint the picture that it was romanticized. But ultimately, he had two damn good years with favre. Receiver wise, as well as running and kick returning. I'm not here to argue how good of a qb favre ultimately was(better than Gino, that's for damn sure) but the reality is, favre was hooking up with Percy all over the field.

 

[pmedic920]

I've said it before, and I think it fits here.
IMO, Chemistry plays a huge role in the failure or success of every team.
We only know a small amount on what P.H. did for or to the Seahawks chemistry but think him being GONE has made a difference in the positive direction.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

My question was generalized. How many times did Favre target Percy deep? Success %?

I don't have those answers. I can tell you that in 30 games during Favre's 2 years, Percy had 3 games over 100 yds receiving, and 27 plays over 20 yards. Less than one 20 plus play per game. In the two seasons after Favre left? 25 games, 22 receptions over 20 yards and 5 games with more than 100 yards recieving. Perhaps his time with Favre has been romanticized a bit?

When we first got Harvin I went back and looked at Harvin's career numbers.j I showed back then that Tate was a better WR than Harvin. Of course, I got lambasted for it. Now that Tate is in a different system, my analysis doesn't look so off. I'm often wrong about guys with no data to go by, but there was data there this time and it said Harvin was over rated. Tate - and Baldwin - were both being underrated.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I think it has more to do with the teams falling apart in front of us and our important guys (Wagner and Kam) getting healthy than getting rid of Percy.

I hated Percy. I knew he was going to cost us Tate and I think he did. (potential wife screwing aside)

He was a guy I was hoping would fall down a flight of stairs because I didn't want him on the team but didn't want him to decide to show up and beat us in the one game a year he decides he is healthy. It got me in trouble a few times.

But losing Percy the way we did, I think shelled us against the Rams and that was a game that was winnable.

You could also question just why we looked so bad against a Chiefs team that frankly isn't that good.

Remember the Arizona team we beat has no QB, and the 49ers team is dissolving before our eyes. (?!?!?) The test will be the Eagles. Did the Hawks get better and get their mojo back? Or is this more the other teams just are struggling right now?

The question is whether losing Percy made up for the one game we lost because of how that was handled?

Glad the guy is gone either way but I don't think removing him is what led to the winning again. It was more likely quality of opponents we have been facing.

 

[DavidSeven]

My new theory on Harvin is that he came here with thoughts that he might be used more as a conventional receiver, but got beat out by UDFA talent for the outside positions and got pissed off. This is the land of "Always Compete," and I think it became evident that the other receivers ran better routes, made better catches, and tracked the ball better downfield than Harvin. Even as they were trying to "showcase" him, he couldn't get on the field for more than 60% of the snaps. They trusted Baldwin and Kearse more to run the route tree. This likely caused him to become malcontented as he believed his raw gifts put him above those guys.

Now he's on the Jets where again we heard talk of him being used more as a conventional receiver. After a few weeks of failing to track deep throws and failing to build deep ball rapport with his QBs, he is again center-stage in a misdirection offense that is using him as little more than a decoy.

Harvin is a gifted player without a true position. He lacks the stature and durability to play RB, but he doesn't have the downfield awareness of a true WR. His speed, however, fools teams into forcing him the ball, even to the detriment of the overall offense. So yes, in the grand scheme of things, I do think the team is likely functioning better without him.

 

[pehawk]

Percy was my favorite player, EVER.

 

[StoneCold]

The strange thing is that the Jets offensive starters are pretty solid and maybe better than the Hawks on paper .... Except QB. I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that Percy is causing problems but it is strange that the Jets are already starting to run bubble screens to other players and ignoring him on deep patterns even when he is open.

Sure dude, they are totally refusing to throw Percy the ball deep when he is open...

That offense rolls through Geno, who missed Percy deep last night with a deep ball. It isn't a matter of politics, it is matter of QB/WR continuity.

Seattle targeted Percy an average of less than 3.5 yards down field. The Jets have been targeting him about 3 times deeper. They just aren't connecting.

Name me a QB who has established a good deep ball rapport with Percy.

Sure, but there's also a reason why geno had been benched recently. He wasn't hittinganybody. Hence the joke when the trade happened; geno smith will miss Percy more than we miss him.

And your question was answered which kind of dismantles where you are trying to go.

Hitting people is Percival's job. Some people around here just do not understand football. Sheesh!

SC

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Anyone else get some perverted pleasure out of watching Harvin be irrelevant each and every week in NY?

Last night I couldn't help but smile everytime he got destroyed by three tacklers on a two yard bubble screen or jet sweep. Be careful what you wish for Percy, you da man now! Enjoy 2-10.

 

[Cartire]

Why aren't you a mod anymore, David? You were perfect for it, sincerely. Level headed and never in the briar patch.

I heard he got a little too friendly with AbsolutNET's wife, if you know what I mean.

Are you saying its time for David to go to the Lions forums?

 

[pehawk]

Anyone else get some perverted pleasure out of watching Harvin be irrelevant each and every week in NY?

Last night I couldn't help but smile everytime he got destroyed by three tacklers on a two yard bubble screen or jet sweep. Be careful what you wish for Percy, you da man now! Enjoy 2-10.

Totally. And I like to think the cruelty isn't lost on Pete and John, nor was it when they made the deal. "You punk us, we'll send you to the NFL's equivalent of hell."

 

[Anonymous]

I can't help shaking the feeling that PC and JS just sat down one day and took a look at the remaining schedule, knowing full well that what Percy provided for us in the Super Bowl was not going to work any longer, and figured out that it was time to re-strategize for the stretch.

Looking past any off-the-field distractions in their discussions, they most likely figured out that the deficiencies/matchup issues they were facing could all be covered by a combination of a few key acquisitions, a scheme re-focus, and by utilizing current players. With an element of future planning mixed in they made a change that forced teams to re-evaluate covering us, and set the stage for the restoring an element of surprise that simply was no longer there when Harvin trotted on the field.

Sure, Harvin was fast, could turn on a dime, and very good at returning, but the secret was out and when he was on the field and it was like playing downs with only 10 men.

Then again, it's just a feeling.

 

[scutterhawk]

Percy is an easy cop out, but I disagree. The difference has been our defense getting healthy and suffocating opponents. Offense still has a long ways to go. Offense has been better at times, but that just boiled down to handing lynch the ball, which you can't blame percy for.

Okay, so (excluding Golden Tate) can you explain how we were able to win it all last Season without Harvin.
It's a complete fallacy to claim that teams don't need an offense to win.
Marshawn Lynch is essential to the Seahawks Offense, but Russell Wilson's ability to scramble, is also a huge part of the Seahawks Offensive success.
Percy Harvin wasn't pertinent to the Seahawks Offensive success, and in fact there was an obvious erosion that was developing with Percy on the roster, and because he didn't feel the need to conform, you do what Pete an John did, you jet-tison his young distracting ass, and be thankful that there was a team that was willing to take him.

 

[kearly]

If you're just going to judge Percy by his down field production, then sure, you could probably paint the picture that it was romanticized. But ultimately, he had two damn good years with favre. Receiver wise, as well as running and kick returning. I'm not here to argue how good of a qb favre ultimately was(better than Gino, that's for damn sure) but the reality is, favre was hooking up with Percy all over the field.

Scotte's point stands, Harvin was targeted deep less with Favre.

Also, Harvin's numbers in general held steady in Minny regardless of the QB, in fact he was on pace for a career year with Christian Ponder before getting hurt at Seattle in 2012. And Harvin loathed Ponder.

Harvin has never been a good deep threat at WR in the NFL. He led the league every year in YAC while running mostly intermediate and short routes. His best season (production per game - 2012), he likely had the lowest deep ball percentage in the league.

When Pete traded for him, he flat out said that Harvin was a RB at WR, then turned around and said that Golden Tate was a pure WR and not a RB at WR. He was very deliberate in making that distinction with the media.

Harvin looked awkward as hell running deep stuff in Seattle except in the first week of August. But that's not really anything new, he's decently polished on shorter routes but looks lost running deep stuff and adjusting to the ball. The polish on short stuff likely stems from him running those short routes so much more frequently.

 

[kearly]

Totally. And I like to think the cruelty isn't lost on Pete and John, nor was it when they made the deal. "You punk us, we'll send you to the NFL's equivalent of hell."

It definitely sends a message.

The trade was a bit crueler than just playing for a bad team. The Jets will likely clean house this offseason. New coaches, probably a new GM. New people in charge means that Percy may not be their guy, and he might see the end of his $11 million per year contract sooner than later.

 

[HawkWow]

I don't have those answers. I can tell you that in 30 games during Favre's 2 years, Percy had 3 games over 100 yds receiving, and 27 plays over 20 yards. Less than one 20 plus play per game. In the two seasons after Favre left? 25 games, 22 receptions over 20 yards and 5 games with more than 100 yards recieving. Perhaps his time with Favre has been romanticized a bit?

And let us not forget...we're talking Brett Frikin Favre. Harvin was a rookie and what rookie WR in their right mind wouldn't work extra hard, crawl through broken glass for the legend Brett Favre? Favre made it clear to Harvin: :you STFU, do what I tell you and I will have you on your way to Canton". Harvin behaved himself.

That was also before former team mate / thug Aaron Hernandez got his new deal in NE. Harvin wanted that too.. and started acting up immediately following. Then Moss took Harvin under his wing, teaching him the dos and don'ts of being a superstar football player. Harvin was a pothead punk at Florida, his real issues came after Moss. Especially after (and because of) the departure of Moss.

I said this in a different thread, but I won't be surprised if Harvin is retired at the conclusion of this year. There's speculation of why JS sent Harvin to WR purgatory. The reality is, he had few options. We were the only team that wanted harvin from the Vikes (no...SF didn't). After learning of Harvin's difficulties in Seattle...how many teams could have wanted him? The Jets had the cap space and nothing to lose. But how many teams will want him next year (unless at a bargain basement price)? DCs now have him figured out and (now) GMs do too.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I said this in a different thread, but I won't be surprised if Harvin is retired at the conclusion of this year.

Percy Harvin is more likely to re-sign in Seattle in 2015 than retire.

In other words.. no.

He won't see 60M again, but hes young and an athletic freak.. some GM will take a flyer on him for a cheap deal.

 

[olyfan63]

I tried telling you guys

Post a link to your old posts here that warned us. Gloating and I-told-you-so are explicitly allowed in this thread.

There were several posters that gave us the Percy Harvin scouting report, that he's an injury malingerer and a team cancer. I just thought Pete and the environment could fix that. Pete thought so too. He was wrong, and admits it.

 

[Tokadub]

Harvin is such a bum, he's so bad the Jets aren't even using him for Kickoff returns which is pretty much the only thing he's good at other than random fluky plays. He's dumber than a door nail and I'm so glad he's gone.

 

[seahawksny]

We got way too predictable on offense. Defenses knew that screen behind line of scrimmage was coming and it never worked. He hasn't since his days in Minnesota been a pure wideout.

As far as his attitude goes, it's no coincidence he plays for the most disheveled franchide in the sport. Next year maybe he will be in oakland.

 

[HawkFan72]

Harvin is such a bum, he's so bad the Jets aren't even using him for Kickoff returns which is pretty much the only thing he's good at other than random fluky plays. He's dumber than a door nail and I'm so glad he's gone.

For whatever reason, he hasn't been very good on kickoff returns this year. He had one of two decent returns here this year and has had one or two good returns for the Jets, but other than that small handful, his returns have been awful, usually inside the 20.

I feel like Baldwin and Richardson have been better returners than Percy this year, much more consistent.

I don't know what's up with Harvin because, you're right, that was like his specialty. He was one of the best returners in the NFL for years. I don't know why that went away this season. He's been really bad, and now even the Jets have realized it.