Kudos from an outsider

[chris98251]

Jerry will need to bring in a person bigger then himself like Parcells, Jerry will walk over anything less, Parcells wanted a certain amount of control on personel etc. Unless you have someone that can tell Jerry to get the hell out and let me do my job and not worry about the consequences things will stay the same, Jimmie Johnson was the big ego personality type as well.

Why Gruden may work if he decided to go, he has de4alth with the Bucs dysfunctional regime and Al Davis, he knows the playing field. Any coach of that caliber will be a short term situation also, two big personalitys can't co exist for long, since Jerry is owner the coach see's the door.

 

[OrFan]

It does not matter who your coach is.

The best coach there is, whichever that is, will not succeed in Dallas.

Jones is the problem, period.

 

[ivotuk]

Until either Jimmy Johnson or Jerry Jones dies, the Dallas Cowboys will be mired in mediocrity.

Jerry Jones is still trying to prove that he didn't fug up when he fired Jimmy Johnson and that he too can put together a SuperB Owl team. The problem is, he can't. Jerrah has "just enough success" (Romo, Ware) to think that he is a great talent scout. When in actuality, he has just listened to others and gotten lucky.

Any serious draft fan that you might find in our draft forum could do as well as Jerry Jones, and some could out-draft him. I think some of our forum members like houstonhawk68, vincouve and CamanoIsland among others would be an upgrade in Dallas. If the current "GM" was smart, he'd hire Rick Gosselin as his GM (and as the links below show, he might have been peeking at his mocks).

So unfortunately, it won't matter who Jones hires to be his head coach because he will manipulate them, interfere in the hiring of coordinators and position coaches, and even talk play calling and player snaps. All of which will destroy the confidence of anybody and always keep them second-guessing themselves. Just look at what he has done to Tony Romo who probably would have won a Superbowl by now on any other team.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/da...421-Rick-Gosselin-s-final-mock-draft-6336.ece

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/nf...ck-draft-cowboys-settle-on-ot-tyron-smith.ece

 

[hawk45]

I'm not sure I can deride Jerry Jones as a GM quite so readily. He put together a team that won 3 superbowls. If that was done by listening to other people and getting lucky, he still gets credit for listening to the right people and for having enough luck to choke an elephant. The Cowboys aren't thought of as a team with no talent; they're thought of as the team with plenty of talent who manages to squander it annually.

But as others have suggested, minimizing Jimmy Johnson's role in things to the point Johnson left, and the ego that suggests, that seems to be a legit criticism, and may well turn out to be the fatal flaw when all is said and done because underneath every decision about who will coach the team is the desire to prove that mainly Jerry Jones is the reason for success. That sort of mixed motivation seems likely to continue to lead to mixed results.

With that, have to agree with the rest around here that the best coach for the Cowboys is a splashy one, a Gruden type.

Bevell can perform when he's on a team loaded to the gills with talent, he's done so in Minnesota and here, so he probably wouldn't hurt your offense, but the offense isn't the problem in Dallas is it? Who knows if Bevell as a head coach could sniff out and reel in (with Jerry's permission) an excellent DC?

Quinn has done a really fine job here. I applaud how he has been willing to use the team's (nearly infinite) strengths on defense. Think he's still a bit young, and not sure if his performance in Seattle translates into him being a guy who can transform a really poorly performing defense. It's just really difficult to form a complete opinion of a coach who took an elite defense and turned it into an elite-elite defense (and who also has the benefit of 2 or 3 excellent new pass rushers that last year's D did not have).

Norton Jr., I dunno, LBer coach is even less cachet. I feel like Jerry would eat him up, even he did possess some transformative qualities as a head coach.

 

[Picksix]

I'm not sure I can deride Jerry Jones as a GM quite so readily. He put together a team that won 3 superbowls. If that was done by listening to other people and getting lucky, he still gets credit for listening to the right people and for having enough luck to choke an elephant. The Cowboys aren't thought of as a team with no talent; they're thought of as the team with plenty of talent who manages to squander it annually.

But as others have suggested, minimizing Jimmy Johnson's role in things to the point Johnson left, and the ego that suggests, that seems to be a legit criticism, and may well turn out to be the fatal flaw when all is said and done because underneath every decision about who will coach the team is the desire to prove that mainly Jerry Jones is the reason for success. That sort of mixed motivation seems likely to continue to lead to mixed results.

With that, have to agree with the rest around here that the best coach for the Cowboys is a splashy one, a Gruden type.



Bevell can perform when he's on a team loaded to the gills with talent, he's done so in Minnesota and here, so he probably wouldn't hurt your offense, but the offense isn't the problem in Dallas is it? Who knows if Bevell as a head coach could sniff out and reel in (with Jerry's permission) an excellent DC?

Quinn has done a really fine job here. I applaud how he has been willing to use the team's (nearly infinite) strengths on defense. Think he's still a bit young, and not sure if his performance in Seattle translates into him being a guy who can transform a really poorly performing defense. It's just really difficult to form a complete opinion of a coach who took an elite defense and turned it into an elite-elite defense (and who also has the benefit of 2 or 3 excellent new pass rushers that last year's D did not have).

Norton Jr., I dunno, LBer coach is even less cachet. I feel like Jerry would eat him up, even he did possess some transformative qualities as a head coach.

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking more of Norton for DC, assuming Kiffin doesn't return and Marinelli ends up wherever Lovie Smith ends up. I think Jones would try to make the splash hire, because that's his nature, but I also know how hard it is for him to give up that much control. He tried doing it when he hired Parcells, but couldn't after awhile, which is why he forced TO on him.

But whether it's the Cowboys or another team with all the likely firings there are to be in the offseason, your staff is going to be awfully popular.

 

[Jville]

IIRC Norton was asked about having any interest in a DC job earlier in the year at the time of the Dan Quinn hiring. He rejected any interest in a DC job and noted he was very happy coaching up his linebackers.

Still ... there will be plenty of interest in Seahawk coaches.

 

[QuahHawk]

I think Garret needs to go. He might be a great OC but he is not HC material. The only coach worthy of being a HC on the Hawks is Cable. Bevell might get a shot but I don't think he had the personality to do it. Opposite of Gus Bradley who is a great personality but only above Avg coach. Bevell is a above average coach but boring personality who would struggle to lead a team. I could see Norton as a DC IN Dallas. I think Quinn is a few years away from a HC spot but no doubt in my mind Pete Carroll is the master mind of this defense and Tom cable has about as much influence on offense as Bevell does.

 

[Picksix]

I think Garret needs to go. He might be a great OC but he is not HC material. The only coach worthy of being a HC on the Hawks is Cable. Bevell might get a shot but I don't think he had the personality to do it. Opposite of Gus Bradley who is a great personality but only above Avg coach. Bevell is a above average coach but boring personality who would struggle to lead a team. I could see Norton as a DC IN Dallas. I think Quinn is a few years away from a HC spot but no doubt in my mind Pete Carroll is the master mind of this defense and Tom cable has about as much influence on offense as Bevell does.

Be interesting to see if/when Cable gets another shot. Seemed like he did okay in that black hole of Oakland. I would imagine he'll draw some interest after this year. He's done well with that OL, despite having to do a good bit of mixing and matching this year.

 

[QuahHawk]

Our OL is half made up of other teams scraps. Giacomini, mcquistin, and Sweeny were all Longshot to ever be starters and he has them playing pretty well. Unger had really gotten better with cable around and Okung has become one of the best LTs in the game. Cable is from Washington so I think he's willing to stick around as assistant coach as long as we keep him on HC salary.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Our OL is half made up of other teams scraps. Giacomini, mcquistin, and Sweeny were all Longshot to ever be starters and he has them playing pretty well. Unger had really gotten better with cable around and Okung has become one of the best LTs in the game. Cable is from Washington so I think he's willing to stick around as assistant coach as long as we keep him on HC salary.

Cable was also head coach of Uni of Idaho in Moscow. So with that is some head coaching experience allbeit a second tier. That may be ok on a resume too.

 

[QuahHawk]

Cable was HC at Oakland before he punched somebody.

 

[joeseahawks]

Picsix,
Do you really think Kiffin has a chance of returning to big D? I mean ... this defense is the worst in the whole NFL. Even if the Boys make it into the playoffs, they will get destroyed either by the Hawks or the Saints/Panthers if they manage to win their home game. I don't even see them beating the NFC Wildcard (49ers or Panthers/Saints). Is this the same Kiffin who got destroyed by Oregon's offense last year at UNC for almost 70 points? And they are facing the Chip Kelly in one week? Good luck with that.
Hiring Kiffin was really an insult to all the DC out there. His time is passe. He needs to just retire.

 

[Picksix]

Picsix,
Do you really think Kiffin has a chance of returning to big D? I mean ... this defense is the worst in the whole NFL. Even if the Boys make it into the playoffs, they will get destroyed either by the Hawks or the Saints/Panthers if they manage to win their home game. I don't even see them beating the NFC Wildcard (49ers or Panthers/Saints). Is this the same Kiffin who got destroyed by Oregon's offense last year at UNC for almost 70 points? And they are facing the Chip Kelly in one week? Good luck with that.
Hiring Kiffin was really an insult to all the DC out there. His time is passe. He needs to just retire.

I could see Jerry using the injuries the Cowboys have suffered this year as an excuse, along with the whole "first year with a new system" rationalization. Jerry hired Kiffin with the idea that we were going to have a DL made up of Ware, Hatcher, Ratliff and Spencer, backed up by Tyrone Crawford and some others that had shown promise, and only Ware and Hatcher have actually played this year (and Ware has been injured himself a good part if the year). Now, putting faith in a bunch 30+ year old players was flawed from the start, as was the idea of playing a cover 2 scheme with DBs better suited for man coverage. I think Kiffin wanted to play a version of Seattle's system, but quickly realized we didn't have the personnel.

Not that I agree with any such rationalization, but I could see Jerry using it to Kiffin another year. I'd rather see Monte move on, and either promote Marinelli, or pluck guy like Norton or Richards from the Hawks to run the defense.

 

[irocdave]

Cowpokes will not be able to land a top coordinator or big name coach as long as JJ has the reins. The first question you have to ask if your a coordinator is this " do I have control of the finished product?" Every NFL fan knows the answer and its a resounding NO. Holmgren is the one guy that comes to mind as a huge personality / vested great coach but from the outside looking in, he will want more control than JJ will let him have. Not to mention it will take several years of great drafts to dig "Americas team" out of the quagmire they are in. BTW, Romo isn't the answer at QB, he is a gun slinger that puts up great numbers but as and cowpoke fan knows he will choke when it counts. I am amazed that Romo has the resiliency he does after so many failures yet he does it every time.

One last thing, who the F anointed the Cowboys " Americas Team" and how the hell have that kept that moniker when they have been mediocre for so long? I am so sick of hearing about that team. They haven't deserved the attention for almost 2 decades....

 

[Picksix]

One last thing, who the F anointed the Cowboys " Americas Team" and how the hell have that kept that moniker when they have been mediocre for so long? I am so sick of hearing about that team. They haven't deserved the attention for almost 2 decades....

No they haven't. But we don't pay attention to those most deserving. We give the attention the ones who are the most sensational, like the Kardashians. It's not about who's the best. It's about who the most people want to see, and whether it's to see them win, or see them lose, Americans want to see the Cowboys. Look at their ratings for Natioanl games. They're always in the top. Seems everything they do is national news. They could light a fart, and it would be headline news on Sportscenter. Stafford is just as bad in December and January as Romo - actually worse. Why don't we hear about that as much? Nobody cares. Personally, I hate it. Jerry cares more about the attention than he does about winning, and we keep giving it to him.

 

[drdiags]

One last thing, who the F anointed the Cowboys " Americas Team" and how the hell have that kept that moniker when they have been mediocre for so long? I am so sick of hearing about that team. They haven't deserved the attention for almost 2 decades....

No they haven't. But we don't pay attention to those most deserving. We give the attention the ones who are the most sensational, like the Kardashians. It's not about who's the best. It's about who the most people want to see, and whether it's to see them win, or see them lose, Americans want to see the Cowboys. Look at their ratings for Natioanl games. They're always in the top. Seems everything they do is national news. They could light a fart, and it would be headline news on Sportscenter. Stafford is just as bad in December and January as Romo - actually worse. Why don't we hear about that as much? Nobody cares. Personally, I hate it. Jerry cares more about the attention than he does about winning, and we keep giving it to him.

It was a nice catch phrase from NFL Films that fit at the time because of how the Cowboys scouted talent and of course the lovely Dallas Cheerleaders back in the 60's and 70's. Big Oil and the social changes during the 60's/70's fed into the frenzy. They used computers before there were PCs to help run their organization. They were trendsetters at the time. It has become a brand for them and yes, they do have a lot of ratings pull. The problem is the past decade or so they haven't lived up to the expectation of dominance they had back in the 70's, 80's and 90's. My only problem with the moniker is some NFL editor coined a phrase and now folks speak as if this is truth.

They have a large fanbase, people love identifying with a winner (see Packers, Steelers and others). But no one ever got a vote. I guess it is the same frustration other fans have when pundits clamor on about the Seahawks 12th man. The 12th man absolutely believes they are the best fans in the world. Other fans hate it but cannot change the tide of how the story is told.

A Seahawks fan told me to get over the "America's Team" putdown, that it is how the Cowboys are identified. He is right, so hate it as much as I want, it will not change how the Cowboys are referred to.

 

[ivotuk]

I believe that the talent the Superbowl teams was more Jimmy Johnson than Jerry Jones. Jimmy won a National Championship in Miami before going to the NFL and like Pete Carroll, was extremely familiar with the college talent such Russell Maryland, Michael Irvin and emmitt Smith.

In fact, you could draw some very good comparisons between Jimmy and Pete. Both want to run the ball, have their QB be a point guard, have a big wide receiver and play great defense.

Just like Troy, Russell throws for about 200 yards per game, and the defense allowed less than 20 points per game.

But talent or no, it takes a coach knowing what he's doing to get the most out of his talent, and until Jerrah steps back and allows a relationship like Pete and John have, the cowboys will never have sustained success.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I can live with Dallas being identified as "America's Team" and Seattle with "The 12th Man".

Also those 1990's Dallas teams were ALL Jimmy Johnson and the root cause Jerruh ran him out of town on a rail. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

[kearly]

I know this probably sounds retarded, but I think Rex Ryan, if fired by the Jets, could be a great hire for Dallas. Ryan is clueless about building an offense, but Dallas already has a complete offense built that figures to be good for another 3-4 seasons. Defenses can be turned around very quickly, and Rex Ryan is a defensive genius who has produced without having to hand pick every player himself. Dallas needs a head coach who isn't a mousy yes man, though there could be some bad blood given that Jones fired Ryan's brother recently.

Dallas needs toughness on defense. Ryan will make that defense tough in year one, and probably good by year two or three. Hiring Ryan is a bit of a short-to-intermediate outlook strategy, but since they are marrying themselves to Romo a long term plan wouldn't really make sense.

It doesn't have to be Ryan, but they should definitely hire a defensive coach who will stamp his identity on the team.

I think if Jerry Jones stayed away from reporters the perception of him would be better. He's not an idiot as a GM, but he is an idiot when he opens his mouth with microphones nearby.

As far as Seahawks coaches, Quinn is a stud, and Cable deserves another shot at HC. Bevell will likely get hired as a HC somewhere next offseason, I am curious to see how he does.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Hmm...not as retarded as you think sir. Nope, actually quite intriguing.