Kudos from an outsider

[mikeak]

You drafted a center in the first round and fired a really good DC and replaced him with a guy so bad he was fired by his own son

Yeah all of us know where the problem with Dallas lies....

But I forget. Of course the DC should get fired they lost to the Seahawks as JJ mentioned.... This year apparently 14 or so D coaches will get fired if other GMs uses that thinking....

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Jimmy was right there in the war room making the picks with Jerry, from Jimmy's own account. I've got the feeling Jimmy made some pretty convincing sales pitches on the college talent he knew about, and by the time he asked Jerry 'what do ya say?!' Jimmy just prolly said 'heyall yeayas!'

After that, he slowly let vanity and ego take over. Jimmy noted the direction the team was heading in, beat feet and the rest is not-so-memorable history.

 

[Tical21]

I'm going to get killed for this, but I've never thought Jerry was the problem. Over the past decade, player for player, position group for position group, I think Dallas has had the best collection of talent in the NFL. There was about a five year stretch where they were far and away the most talented roster in football. Some major kudos need to go to a GM for that. At some point, coaches just need to coach, and players need to produce.

I think they would have at least a couple rings with quarterback "x". Kitna could have gotten them a ring. There are probably at least 50 QB's that have played in the NFL in the last ten years that could have gotten a ring with that roster. They just happen to have Chokemaster Dufus as their QB. Should have gotten rid of him I don't know how many Decembers ago. That guy cost them an entire decade. And the funniest part, the fans STILL think "next year is the year Romo grows up and puts it all together". Dude is going to be 42, and people are still going to be saying "this is the year he grows up". Cut your losses, cut the guy now, get anybody else, and your chance of success goes up exponentially.

I agree with the thoughts on Cable. Being a successful head coach is usually about ego, confidence, and your ability to lead men. Quinn has a ways to go in my opinion. I don't know much about him, just listening to him in interviews. If Norton were going to create schemes and be a coordinator, he would have done it years ago. He loves linebackers, and seems to want to keep it that way. I'd be interested to see if Kris Richard could coach a defense. He seems to be the thinker of the bunch. I know a former pupil of his that just raves and raves about him.

I dunno about Bevell. Nobody does. He doesn't talk much. Sounds like a sharp guy, but doesn't look like one. Somebody will gamble on him at some point. But I'm sure being a former Wisconsin QB, he has to just love working with Russell every day. He just may turn down a bad head job. Doubt it, but could happen.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

^^^^ Sorry T-cal, but that post is mostly laughable. Jerry not the problem?

Let's see, GERRY fired the only consistently successful coach he had and not because of the Jimmy's ability to coach...now there's good GM move for you. Next, GERRY hires a string of coaches that couldn't get anywhere with the supposed bonanza of talent you say he adeptly brought in. News flash, the GM needs to bring in talent based upon the coaches and the system they bring with them. He also should not be hiring yes men for his coaches that he doesn't really give any genuine authority in choosing who is drafted or signed.

How can he be a good GM, but consistently pulling subjective, boneheaded moves in hiring who coaches the talent he brought in? Another mistake HE made is exactly what you mention in your post...not cutting his losses with Romo, but instead rewarding him with a big contract for folding like a cheap seat when the pressure is on late in games.

Another comment about talent in general. Holmgren was thought to have inherited a very talented team when the Seahawks hired him. We all saw how that worked out. We had a lot of flash and very little substance outside of a few players. Some of them were not a 'fit' and Holmgren wasn't very accommodating in that manner, but, at the risk of being repetitive, that's something a GM, owner, or whomever's pulling the trigger needs to consider when hiring a coach.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Tcal, it WAS the GM who gave Romo the money and that is the least egregious move he's made since 1994.They have been nothing better than exactly what they are right now for 19 years? That is all from the issues that plague the organization not the supposed talent on the field. 5 elite players don't make a football team successful because this isn't baseball or basketball it's actually a team sport like soccer.

 

[irocdave]

One last thing, who the F anointed the Cowboys " Americas Team" and how the hell have that kept that moniker when they have been mediocre for so long? I am so sick of hearing about that team. They haven't deserved the attention for almost 2 decades....

No they haven't. But we don't pay attention to those most deserving. We give the attention the ones who are the most sensational, like the Kardashians. It's not about who's the best. It's about who the most people want to see, and whether it's to see them win, or see them lose, Americans want to see the Cowboys. Look at their ratings for Natioanl games. They're always in the top. Seems everything they do is national news. They could light a fart, and it would be headline news on Sportscenter. Stafford is just as bad in December and January as Romo - actually worse. Why don't we hear about that as much? Nobody cares. Personally, I hate it. Jerry cares more about the attention than he does about winning, and we keep giving it to him.

I understand it's a blessing and a curse. From the outside it just pisses off most NFL fan bases. For reference, how did the Cowboy fans perceive the Jets coverage this off season? I would guess Cowboy fans were sick if hearing about the dumpster fire that is the Jets. The Cowboys are in the same positin, just play in a softer division. Cowboys fans think America wants to hear about their team but we don't. Really we don't. We want to hear about teams that are good, cowpokes haven't been in almost 2 decades. I understand the national media sucks up to large fan bases ( Eli Manning elite debates for example) but lets be honest. NFL fans don't like consistent failures. The Cowboys and Romo are the posture children for failure. The only reason for this is the owner that refuses to give up the reigns for a true NFL GM and coaches control of the team.

 

[Picksix]

I'm going to get killed for this, but I've never thought Jerry was the problem. Over the past decade, player for player, position group for position group, I think Dallas has had the best collection of talent in the NFL. There was about a five year stretch where they were far and away the most talented roster in football. Some major kudos need to go to a GM for that. At some point, coaches just need to coach, and players need to produce.

I think they would have at least a couple rings with quarterback "x". Kitna could have gotten them a ring. There are probably at least 50 QB's that have played in the NFL in the last ten years that could have gotten a ring with that roster. They just happen to have Chokemaster Dufus as their QB. Should have gotten rid of him I don't know how many Decembers ago. That guy cost them an entire decade. And the funniest part, the fans STILL think "next year is the year Romo grows up and puts it all together". Dude is going to be 42, and people are still going to be saying "this is the year he grows up". Cut your losses, cut the guy now, get anybody else, and your chance of success goes up exponentially.

I agree with the thoughts on Cable. Being a successful head coach is usually about ego, confidence, and your ability to lead men. Quinn has a ways to go in my opinion. I don't know much about him, just listening to him in interviews. If Norton were going to create schemes and be a coordinator, he would have done it years ago. He loves linebackers, and seems to want to keep it that way. I'd be interested to see if Kris Richard could coach a defense. He seems to be the thinker of the bunch. I know a former pupil of his that just raves and raves about him.

I dunno about Bevell. Nobody does. He doesn't talk much. Sounds like a sharp guy, but doesn't look like one. Somebody will gamble on him at some point. But I'm sure being a former Wisconsin QB, he has to just love working with Russell every day. He just may turn down a bad head job. Doubt it, but could happen.

The whole level of talent thing has been a big debate for a while now, in terms of how much they've actually had. Dallas has had some big name talent for sure, but they've also had a lot of players that had a lot more name than game. People want to throw out Pro Bowls, but those are based a lot on popularity, and once you make it once, it's hard not to make it again. The Cowboys, for better or worse, get a ton of attention, and they have a huge fan base voting for them, so they get in. Then they get in again. People say, "they've got all these guys going to the Pro Bowl each year," but it doesn't mean they're actually playing well. Plus, even if they have had the high end talent, they haven't had any depth. With the Hawks, there might not be the huge amount of superstar talent, but it's a much better roster 1-53. Jerry's also instilled a sense of entitlement there, so guys don't fear being benched for poor play. Seems like a much tighter ship being run with the Hawks. JJ doesn't let his HC choose his staff, and make the calls as to who's going to do what. Case in point, this past offseason. JJ fired Ryan, hired Kiffin, and forced Garrett to give play calling to Callahan. In Seattle, PC is in charge, no question about it.

So it's not just talent, or the perception of talent, it's about culture, depth, and how the whole organization is run.

Appreciate your input on the coaches. Good luck today. Hope you remind everyone that Carson isn't really that good of a QB.

 

[Picksix]

One last thing, who the F anointed the Cowboys " Americas Team" and how the hell have that kept that moniker when they have been mediocre for so long? I am so sick of hearing about that team. They haven't deserved the attention for almost 2 decades....

No they haven't. But we don't pay attention to those most deserving. We give the attention the ones who are the most sensational, like the Kardashians. It's not about who's the best. It's about who the most people want to see, and whether it's to see them win, or see them lose, Americans want to see the Cowboys. Look at their ratings for Natioanl games. They're always in the top. Seems everything they do is national news. They could light a fart, and it would be headline news on Sportscenter. Stafford is just as bad in December and January as Romo - actually worse. Why don't we hear about that as much? Nobody cares. Personally, I hate it. Jerry cares more about the attention than he does about winning, and we keep giving it to him.

I understand it's a blessing and a curse. From the outside it just pisses off most NFL fan bases. For reference, how did the Cowboy fans perceive the Jets coverage this off season? I would guess Cowboy fans were sick if hearing about the dumpster fire that is the Jets. The Cowboys are in the same positin, just play in a softer division. Cowboys fans think America wants to hear about their team but we don't. Really we don't. We want to hear about teams that are good, cowpokes haven't been in almost 2 decades. I understand the national media sucks up to large fan bases ( Eli Manning elite debates for example) but lets be honest. NFL fans don't like consistent failures. The Cowboys and Romo are the posture children for failure. The only reason for this is the owner that refuses to give up the reigns for a true NFL GM and coaches control of the team.

Actually, most of us are glad when another team takes focus away from the Cowboys, because we get tired of constantly being discussed, debated, heralded, criticized, etc. on the sports shows. We liked it when Tebowmania took over, because it took attention away from Romo. Jerry hates that. He always wants the spotlight, and he'll do what he needs to get it. And yes, the national media sucks up to the big fan bases, but the big shows like Sportscenter, NFL Live, NFL TA, they're all driven by ratings, and if the Cowboys are consistently a lead story, that means people want to hear about them. In the last hour, I've heard ESPN mention multiple times that there's tension between Romo and Garrett, Romo and Murray, and that the team needs to win the division or the coaches will be fired. Are we hearing that about any other team? Detroit? Cincinnati? Shoot, are we even hearing anything about the Jets and Giants? No. The Cowboys have been the poster children for mediocrity - which does include a good amount of failure - but people tune in to see or hear about their success, or their failure, or what crazy thing Jerry says next (ie, Glory Hole Days). If I weren't a fan, I'd hate it. Actually, I kinda hate it anyway. People always want their teams and their players getting the hype, but in many ways, having the media relatively ignore you is a good thing. Fewer distractions, and greater motivation to play in such a way that demands their attention.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Welcome Pick6. As to your Bevell question, we don't really know how much input Bevell has on our offensive picks and the like, but IMO, with the toys he does have, he can put up some excellent gameplans. He also has a tendency to go ultra-conservative on the road at times - which drives some on this board nuts, but that might be a product of head coaching input, too. (Pete fears turnovers like a Hollywood starlet fears commitment.) For offense he'd do OK, but considering the Cowboys' league leading worst defense, that might not be the place you'd want to start.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Picksix, you'll have a chance at our coaches..2 years too late because that's how Jerruh rolls unless they're a BIG name.

 

[Picksix]

Picksix, you'll have a chance at our coaches..2 years too late because that's how Jerruh rolls unless they're a BIG name.

Yes, Jerry has always 1) loved to make a splash, and 2) very reactionary

 

[ClumsyLurk]

@Picksix - do you know this guy by chance? http://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/commen ... _you_guys/

It could be worse though, you could have Dan Snyder.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Picksix, you'll have a chance at our coaches..2 years too late because that's how Jerruh rolls unless they're a BIG name.

Yes, Jerry has always 1) loved to make a splash, and 2) very reactionary

I am so split because I want Dallas to win so that Jerruh learns nothing but then again Philadelphia winning means a Green Bay pasting vs. San Francisco...so confused.

 

[EntiatHawk]

PickSix, The Cowboys need to clean house, and since JJ is in control that it most likely not possible. They have some talent on offense but their Defense is a dumpster fire. And the problem on offenses that may be mentally handicapped due to their past. It like they are always one pick away from imploding and seem so have muscle memory for it.

I also do not think the team is as nearly talented as many seem to believe. It's more hype than reality.

Do you think that JJ would allow a total restructure much like the what the Hawks did? Will JJ allow football people run the show?

Also I think JJ has his old pals that he listens to that are not in the organization that mess with system. Until all that happens I really do not think it will matter who you bring in.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Sorry, but I want the Skins for the wins. I want to see the backup qb get a chance at a good contract out of there as RGknee is getting healed up. LOL We can still have GB paste SanFran...it is ok. Good luck with your coaching woes picksix. (I used to be a fan back in the early 70s...before the seahawks were a team.)

 

[Picksix]

I know this probably sounds retarded, but I think Rex Ryan, if fired by the Jets, could be a great hire for Dallas. Ryan is clueless about building an offense, but Dallas already has a complete offense built that figures to be good for another 3-4 seasons. Defenses can be turned around very quickly, and Rex Ryan is a defensive genius who has produced without having to hand pick every player himself. Dallas needs a head coach who isn't a mousy yes man, though there could be some bad blood given that Jones fired Ryan's brother recently.

Dallas needs toughness on defense. Ryan will make that defense tough in year one, and probably good by year two or three. Hiring Ryan is a bit of a short-to-intermediate outlook strategy, but since they are marrying themselves to Romo a long term plan wouldn't really make sense.

It doesn't have to be Ryan, but they should definitely hire a defensive coach who will stamp his identity on the team.

I think if Jerry Jones stayed away from reporters the perception of him would be better. He's not an idiot as a GM, but he is an idiot when he opens his mouth with microphones nearby.

As far as Seahawks coaches, Quinn is a stud, and Cable deserves another shot at HC. Bevell will likely get hired as a HC somewhere next offseason, I am curious to see how he does.

Really can't see Rex going there, given what happened with his brother.

 

[Picksix]

@Picksix - do you know this guy by chance? http://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/commen ... _you_guys/

It could be worse though, you could have Dan Snyder.

IDK, at least Snyder was smart enough to hire a real GM. Of course, that GM went and sold the farm for a QB, who now has an undetermined future.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I know this probably sounds retarded, but I think Rex Ryan, if fired by the Jets, could be a great hire for Dallas. Ryan is clueless about building an offense, but Dallas already has a complete offense built that figures to be good for another 3-4 seasons. Defenses can be turned around very quickly, and Rex Ryan is a defensive genius who has produced without having to hand pick every player himself. Dallas needs a head coach who isn't a mousy yes man, though there could be some bad blood given that Jones fired Ryan's brother recently.

Dallas needs toughness on defense. Ryan will make that defense tough in year one, and probably good by year t.wo or three. Hiring Ryan is a bit of a shor.t-to-intermediate outlook strategy, but since they are marrying themselves to Romo a long term plan wouldn't really make sense.

It doesn't have to be Ryan, but they should definitely hire a defensive coach who will stamp his identity on the team.

I think if Jerry Jones stayed away from reporters the perception of him would be better. He's not an idiot as a GM, but he is an idiot when he opens his mouth with microphones nearby.

As far as Seahawks coaches, Quinn is a stud, and Cable deserves another shot at HC. Bevell will likely get hired as a HC somewhere next offseason, I am curious to see how he does.

Really can't see Rex going there, given what happened with his brother.

What's the backstory Picksix? Because as I said upthread while being serious it would be a good fit if Jerry can relax and check his; ego.

 

[Picksix]

Do you think that JJ would allow a total restructure much like the what the Hawks did? Will JJ allow football people run the show?

Also I think JJ has his old pals that he listens to that are not in the organization that mess with system. Until all that happens I really do not think it will matter who you bring in.

Jerry bought the Cowboys in large part, so he could have a big huge toy to play with, and he won't let someone else play with his toy. He'll always be in charge. As for a cleaning out with the coaching staff, it could happen, but then he'll try to piece the new one together, as opposed to letting the new HC put his own staff together. And yes, he does listen to too many people. He continues to elicit advice from his "outside council," and it just makes for too many cooks in the kitchen. It's a really poor model.

 

[Picksix]

I know this probably sounds retarded, but I think Rex Ryan, if fired by the Jets, could be a great hire for Dallas. Ryan is clueless about building an offense, but Dallas already has a complete offense built that figures to be good for another 3-4 seasons. Defenses can be turned around very quickly, and Rex Ryan is a defensive genius who has produced without having to hand pick every player himself. Dallas needs a head coach who isn't a mousy yes man, though there could be some bad blood given that Jones fired Ryan's brother recently.

Dallas needs toughness on defense. Ryan will make that defense tough in year one, and probably good by year t.wo or three. Hiring Ryan is a bit of a shor.t-to-intermediate outlook strategy, but since they are marrying themselves to Romo a long term plan wouldn't really make sense.

It doesn't have to be Ryan, but they should definitely hire a defensive coach who will stamp his identity on the team.

I think if Jerry Jones stayed away from reporters the perception of him would be better. He's not an idiot as a GM, but he is an idiot when he opens his mouth with microphones nearby.

As far as Seahawks coaches, Quinn is a stud, and Cable deserves another shot at HC. Bevell will likely get hired as a HC somewhere next offseason, I am curious to see how he does.

Really can't see Rex going there, given what happened with his brother.

What's the backstory Picksix? Because as I said upthread while being serious it would be a good fit if Jerry can relax and check his; ego.

Well, for one, there has always been some angst between the two family's going back to the days where Buddy ran the Eagles. Rob Ryan was the DC the past two seasons, but he was pretty much made the scapegoat after last season, and was unfairly sent packing. Plus, in doing so, they switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3, so with Rex, they'd have to switch back, which would be a mess. Too many things working against that scenario.