Linebacker coverage

PrepntheSep

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I rewatched the entire season and one thing that I came away from watching it was our weakness at covering tightends and backs. Wright and Wagner are both emerging stars and this isn't a bashing post but I couldn't help but notice the continuous completions to tightends and backs in the middle of the field. Not just normal plays either, crucial downs in big games. Heck the Niners went down the field by throwing to Gore multiple times before hitting Walker for the winning touchdown in SF. Detroit had similar plays at the end of their game wining drive. I'm curious if others noticed this as well? Wagner is super athletic so I think with experience he could become more adept to reading zones better but I'm less sure of Wright. I just imagine if they could cover like Willis and Bowman how destructive and constricting our defense could be. I did note that our lbs dropped deep in their zones allowing a lot of underneath completions, is this the coaching or players? Just curious what others thought
 

vin.couve12

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PrepntheSep":1awt3j62 said:
I rewatched the entire season and one thing that I came away from watching it was our weakness at covering tightends and backs. Wright and Wagner are both emerging stars and this isn't a bashing post but I couldn't help but notice the continuous completions to tightends and backs in the middle of the field. Not just normal plays either, crucial downs in big games. Heck the Niners went down the field by throwing to Gore multiple times before hitting Walker for the winning touchdown in SF. Detroit had similar plays at the end of their game wining drive. I'm curious if others noticed this as well? Wagner is super athletic so I think with experience he could become more adept to reading zones better but I'm less sure of Wright. I just imagine if they could cover like Willis and Bowman how destructive and constricting our defense could be. I did note that our lbs dropped deep in their zones allowing a lot of underneath completions, is this the coaching or players? Just curious what others thought

A big part of Pete's philosophy on D is keeping things in front of you and not giving up the big play. That said, we run a lot of Cover 3 and Man with either single high or sometimes two high. The cover 2 variety I often saw us run last year when we did go cover 2 was of the Tampa 2 variety of cover 2. We do run a lot of variants of cover 3 though. MLB will often have a short zone along with either one of the other two LBs depending on offensive strong side or sometimes even a safety. A safety can also sometimes have the flat as well. You have 3 deep. This means that underneath the high safety that there are only two defenders covering A LOT of space. Offenses like to be aggressive and get downfield, but we seek to mitigate the big play and make teams throw against the softer zones underneath. That Tampa 2 I was talking about earlier means that in that style of cover 2 the MLB is getting very deep drops to help cover the gap between the two high safeties leaving only the two OLBs to cover underneath. Again, this is a softer zone underneath vs the standard cover 2 style where the MLB stays up in a shorter zone with the other two LBs making it harder for those short passes to be completed.

I generally find that the smarter, more experienced QBs we face will be patient and methodical and try to cut up those zones underneath (this is the norm around the league), but you don't see teams really completing a lot of passes against us in man. The natural reaction is to ask why we don't run more man, but you have to have good mixture. Man has it's weaknesses as well, such as the "rub" routes that NE tended to run against us that are either blatant or natural pic plays.

Anyway, if you really break it down and look throughout the league, even with the large areas our LBs have to cover in the shorter areas, those two are very good in coverage and you'll even find that to be true statistically.

Where you went really wrong though....is your assumption (and likely following suite) that Willis and Bowman are some pedestal and I fart in your general direction. Bowman is the real LB between those two. A lot like Wagner. Willis is the pretty boy who's been overrated since his very nice rookie campaign (albeit still very good player). Willis has the luxury of playing next to Bowman's physicality at the LOS.
 
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PrepntheSep

PrepntheSep

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Thanks for the breakdown, I guess scheme has more to do with than personnel in a lot of the instances I watched. I'm a Niner hater but I don't agree on their MLB's, I think they are very good and I do think they are elite, that doesn't mean I don't think ours can achieve the same status.
 

vin.couve12

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PrepntheSep":bi2al4fd said:
Thanks for the breakdown, I guess scheme has more to do with than personnel in a lot of the instances I watched. I'm a Niner hater but I don't agree on their MLB's, I think they are very good and I do think they are elite, that doesn't mean I don't think ours can achieve the same status.
Yes, they are elite, but that's not the point. I factor in that Wagner lead the league in impact tackles with Bowman 2nd and Willis 5th and Wagner also made as many INTs as both of them put together while also being robbed of one With Wright adding one, dropped two INTs, and missed a game to boot as a strong side backer. PFF even had Wagner rated as the best 4-3 MLB in the league.

You're talking about the #1 scoring D in the league here. SF sets no bar, holmes.
 

RichNhansom

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I think Justin Smith makes everyone on that front seven look better than they are. Look at the entire front seven performance when he was out as well as after he returned. Prior to his injury that entire front seven looked significantly better.

If Justin misses time again this year or if his play drops off with age, you will see a repeat of the defense that couldn't stop the run or cover like the end of last season.
 

hawker84

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I too noticed this last season, i certainly hope it's something Pete has a high priority on.. we got killed with over the middle dump offs to backs and tight ends, won't even touch on the ATL game, but then again the was Tony G.. With the addition of Winfield and another year under Wagner and Wrights belt, i suspect this should improve dramatically..
 

Attyla the Hawk

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It was a problem all year long. Considering we run a predominant cover 3, it puts even more pressure on Kam and the LBs to cover.

I'm hoping we get it dialed in more. Obviously the best way to improve that coverage, is to improve the pass rush so that the passes are committed to earlier. LBs aren't going to be able to cover backs and TEs for long developing routes. I'd also caution that Wagner was in fact a rookie. A great rookie. But he should be expected to improve significantly this year and next.
 

jlwaters1

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Several of the miscues last year can be blamed on youth. If you recall in the Lion's game there was a 3rd and 10ish down inside our 20 yard line. Wagner had the coverage and WRight was in the area both didn't drop deep enough and the WR/RB caught the ball and scampered for a first down. If they play that right it's an easy tackle with a 4th and 1, forcing a FG to tie. Instead they get the first and then go on to win.

Against ATL, Wagner also had the play that cost us the game. He not only allowed the completion but didn't make the tackle allowing Gonzo to pick up another 5 yards making the kick much easier.

I think as Wagner gains experience he'll be more heady and crafty at getting in passing lanes and taking away the big plays. Still I think he was pretty good as a Rookie.

I noticed more that Hill was the liability in coverage more than Wagner or WRight.
 

TCS

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I believe it's more of a lack of pressure on the opposing QB by the DL then any real glaring weakness from our LB core in coverage. Sure, they can improve greatly, but even the worst QB's in the league will make LB's in coverage look silly if they have all day to throw. Our secondary is elite, and with no place to throw against them, all balls funnel to the backs and TE's, putting extra pressure on the LB's in coverage. IMO, it's a good problem to have those plays can typically be contained.

Go Hawks!

tcs
 

kearly

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Seattle was statistically one of the worst teams in the league at covering RBs in 2011, but they were much better in 2012.

Did Seattle really struggle against TEs? I honestly can't remember any TE having a big game against Seattle last season.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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kearly":17lnssci said:
Seattle was statistically one of the worst teams in the league at covering RBs in 2011, but they were much better in 2012.

Did Seattle really struggle against TEs? I honestly can't remember any TE having a big game against Seattle last season.

Other than Hernandez/Gronkowski and Gonzalez in the playoffs, we did good there. Witten probably dropped 140 yards in passes up here though. That was an unforced error.

The main issue seemed to be coverage over the middle. You'd need to add slot receivers and WR crossing routes to that as well. Obviously Titus Young had a career day. Amendola? Same thing. Forte had significant success catching over the middle. Green Bay did as well.

It's not to be entirely unexpected. We sacrificed coverage over the middle having Kam play more aggressive. This year may not be much different though if Quinn dials up 5+ rushers more frequently.

Honestly, I think NE had the greatest success, as we tried to stop their TEs and still struggled to shut them down. Generally if we want to take someone away scheme wise, we do it.

I expect them to get better due to increased experience. It's a difficult aspect to transition from college to pros at. I'm bullish on this improving.
 
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