Officiating

[Hawks46]

The refs were pretty bad I don't understand how that wasn't a fumble

But I don't think we lost because of them. This team clearly has offensive issues

I'd agree with this. We lost this game, although if the penalty disparity wasn't the usual lopsided advantage to our opponents, it might've been a win, or an easier win. jj

There is a serious problem with officiating league wide, and it's getting worse. Here's a few things I don't know, that I thought I did, and evidently the refs don't know either.

Defensive pass interference. I know what the rules say. Hell if I know how it's called on the field.

Offensive holding. I see our guys getting called for blocking a guy from the side. If our OLmen don't square up and stay squared up, they're getting flagged. Funny how refs throw flags based on the reputation of how bad our OL is, yet we don't get the same reputation bias in our defensive secondary.

Delay of game. Kinda thought this one happened when the play clock reads ".00". Guess not.

It doesn't describe how bad our team is this year, but it's always frustrating.

 

[Scottemojo]

So rather that play the better fan card, which is what you are doing, perhaps you can offer a more rational explanation as to why fans of both teams witnessed one of the most incompetently officiated games of the year.

Because that's the state of the NFL ref in 2015. Do you think the inconsistent reffing is unique to Seattle? Look around, it's systemic all over the league, EVERY weekend............and it has been for years.

Why? Because the league continues to meddle with the rules every off season making it virtually impossible for the refs to do their job. Every time there's an important controversial call, the competition committee makes three new rules that the refs has to try and figure out how to call. It's why games are four hours long now with all the stoppages, challenges, ref conferences and penalties.

So I do acknowledge the terrible reffing, but unlike you I'm not using it as a reason we lost. Does that make me a better fan? No, but it certainly makes me a more well informed and reasonable fan.

Do you think the non fumble was a fumble?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So rather that play the better fan card, which is what you are doing, perhaps you can offer a more rational explanation as to why fans of both teams witnessed one of the most incompetently officiated games of the year.

Because that's the state of the NFL ref in 2015. Do you think the inconsistent reffing is unique to Seattle? Look around, it's systemic all over the league, EVERY weekend............and it has been for years.

Why? Because the league continues to meddle with the rules every off season making it virtually impossible for the refs to do their job. Every time there's an important controversial call, the competition committee makes three new rules that the refs has to try and figure out how to call. It's why games are four hours long now with all the stoppages, challenges, ref conferences and penalties.

So I do acknowledge the terrible reffing, but unlike you I'm not using it as a reason we lost. Does that make me a better fan? No, but it certainly makes me a more well informed and reasonable fan.

Do you think the non fumble was a fumble?

I did think it was a fumble, and I thought the Graham TD was a TD, just as Tate's TD was a TD, and Beckham's TD wasn't a TD either?

So yes, as I said, all over the league. Yet some of you guys think it just happens to us. Why? Because there are a lot of myopic Hawk fans who don't really care about football, they just like being Seahawk fans, so they're the ones who are constantly complaining about league conspiracy theories, the refs hate us, OMG why do we have the hardest schedule again!, OMG we have to play on the east coast early four times! *flops on ground and throws tantrum*

It's irrational, and IMO it's loser talk. The players and coaches don't use officiating as a reason they lost, and nor should you.

 

[RichNhansom]

It's one thing to say officiating is bad everywhere but that doesn't explain averages. If you are correct then we should fit somewhere in the middle of all these averages but ss has been posted repeatedly on multiple key penalty stats we aren't average, we are an extreme outlier and burrying your head in the sand doesn't change that or make you more informed if anything it makes you less informed because averages factor in the entire league.

 

[Scottemojo]

So rather that play the better fan card, which is what you are doing, perhaps you can offer a more rational explanation as to why fans of both teams witnessed one of the most incompetently officiated games of the year.

Because that's the state of the NFL ref in 2015. Do you think the inconsistent reffing is unique to Seattle? Look around, it's systemic all over the league, EVERY weekend............and it has been for years.

Why? Because the league continues to meddle with the rules every off season making it virtually impossible for the refs to do their job. Every time there's an important controversial call, the competition committee makes three new rules that the refs has to try and figure out how to call. It's why games are four hours long now with all the stoppages, challenges, ref conferences and penalties.

So I do acknowledge the terrible reffing, but unlike you I'm not using it as a reason we lost. Does that make me a better fan? No, but it certainly makes me a more well informed and reasonable fan.

Do you think the non fumble was a fumble?

I did think it was a fumble, and I thought the Graham TD was a TD, just as Tate's TD was a TD, and Beckham's TD wasn't a TD either?

So yes, as I said, all over the league. Yet some of you guys think it just happens to us. Why? Because there are a lot of myopic Hawk fans who don't really care about football, they just like being Seahawk fans, so they're the ones who are constantly complaining about league conspiracy theories, the refs hate us, OMG why do we have the hardest schedule again!, OMG we have to play on the east coast early four times! *flops on ground and throws tantrum*

It's irrational, and IMO it's loser talk. The players and coaches don't use officiating as a reason they lost, and nor should you.

If it was a fumble, and not awarded properly, it affected Seattle's chances to win the game. End of story. That is a fact. It was likely a 3 to 7 point swing.

Pete very much mentioned the officiating, avoiding blaming the loss on it because he isn't allowed to. Listen to his presser. His words, not mine.

Bad calls happen, they are a part of the game, and always will be. But bad replay has no excuse, and turnovers that should be and are not have huge impacts on close games. To deny that is not informed.

For the record, Russ should have had a safety on his throw away from the endzone. So Cards fans bitching about scoreboard affecting bad calls have a point too.

 

[chawx]

Does that make me a better fan? No, but it certainly makes me a more well informed and reasonable fan.

^ haha, "well informed..." you haven't once quoted anyone who is factually presenting the statistics about how teams are flagged WAY less than their averages when playing against Seattle, nor have you quoted anyone who's presented the statistic that for first downs via penalty is 5 for Seattle and 19 as a league average.

A "well informed" fan would know this and realize that those bias officiating stats have an effect on the game. Ignoring that information and only quoting statistics about what happened on the field without any context for why we abandoned the run early (ie. holding (*AZ was committing holding too and not called for it once), face-mask, delay of game) and why we gave up 39-points (drive extending pi's, holds, illegal contacts (*also something AZ was doing as well and not being called for)) is the exact opposite of being "well informed" and "reasonable"

It's being a head in the sand fan who wants to live in a fantasy world where things like this work itself out and you have to fight thru this, and that's what good teams do.

Please, Sgt. Well Informed, enlighten me and show me the stats for the top 5 teams in the NFL record-wise for "How much the other team is flagged when they play against that team vs. average?" and "How many first downs they are given via penalty?" please. Because, being as well informed as you are, you would know that those top 5 teams are no where near us in those two categories...but, still, I would love to see you quote those numbers and keep up your "we just have to be better than that and not complain as fans" mantra you have going.

#RealTalk #ILoveYaStllSgtLargent #SeahawksBros4Life

PS. As far as the players and the coaches themselves, do I want them focusing on this information? Of course not! Do I think they are? Maybe a little, so they can point it out to the guys to play discipline, clean, football because we are getting targeted right now for whatever reason and giving the refs any sort of ammo is going to kill us. I want the players and coaches to be focusing on execution and being better, not the refs. But saying we can't complain about it here as fans, well, that's my GD right to complain, and piss, and moan about it. Don't rain on my pity party! :lol:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

For the record, Russ should have had a safety on his throw away from the endzone. So Cards fans bitching about scoreboard affecting bad calls have a point too.

So then you agree with me. The officiating might have tilted in the Cards favor overall, but it certainly didn't define the game, or was the reason we lost. It just wasn't, too many other mistakes were made. Period.

This entire thread was started with this statement by the OP

Utter shit this year. Completely crap. And tonight took the cake.. Utter crap utter utter shit. There was no hiding it tonight.. Once they had a sizeable lead the refs let everyone play.. Even tho az kept holding lol.. Then once seattle gets the leads The refs help az get it back. Unacceptable. And utter bullshit.

So sorry, if you don't see this as the myopic, irrational and ill informed fan I'm talking about. Then I guess our conversation's over. Because this guy is laughable.

 

[Scottemojo]

For the record, Russ should have had a safety on his throw away from the endzone. So Cards fans bitching about scoreboard affecting bad calls have a point too.

So then you agree with me. The officiating might have tilted in the Cards favor overall, but it certainly didn't define the game, or was the reason we lost. It just wasn't, too many other mistakes were made. Period.

This entire thread was started with this statement by the OP

Utter shit this year. Completely crap. And tonight took the cake.. Utter crap utter utter shit. There was no hiding it tonight.. Once they had a sizeable lead the refs let everyone play.. Even tho az kept holding lol.. Then once seattle gets the leads The refs help az get it back. Unacceptable. And utter bullshit.

So sorry, if you don't see this as the myopic, irrational and ill informed fan I'm talking about. Then I guess our conversation's over. Because this guy is laughable.

The officiating was utter shit. And the not a fumble did help the Cards get the lead back. And it is unacceptable. Where he is wrong is that it is agenda based.
Just like you are wrong that good teams overcome bad officiating.

I think I was pretty clear in my words saying you and the OP occupy ends of the spectrum, and I don't find either view to be very fact based.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Just like you are wrong that good teams overcome bad officiating.

But they do. That's who wins in this league, the teams that throughout the course of the season and playoffs overcome bad penalties and breaks with superior talent, preparation and execution.

That's sports. Breaks, luck, whatever you want to call it. There is no perfect world where the officiating and breaks come out 50/50.

So to dwell on bad officiating is a fruitless effort, but be my guest, continue to beat that drum. It will result in nothing.

 

[Exittium]

Ps I never said shit a out vegas.. And I'm your referencing a my shack thread that was more venting than anything cut the shit. I dont believe in conspiracies. All i said was, the officiating was utter shit. If you or whoever want statistics go look them up yourself. And yes Ive started watch more college football. The officiating has ben shit there to, but its no where as obvious as it was against the Cards. Im not saying the nfl set out to screw the seahawks, however I am saying that the officiating crew was very damn biased. They focused so heavily on seattle they missed 3 to 4 delay of games, 2 of which were back to back. And as for game changing. Them keeping AZ drive alive in the 4th qtr by calling a penalty on damn near every 3rd down INCLUDING thr fitz and kam shit is enough tobchange the outcome.. And look it did.

One more reason I chose in the temp thread 6 - 10 our boys dont get a fire under them anymore when the game is being tilted to the opponents. I frankly dont blame them. Theres a lot wrong with fhis team, however playing undisciplined (penalties) football i dont feel has been one.

 

[Hawkpower]

Just like you are wrong that good teams overcome bad officiating.

But they do. That's who wins in this league, the teams that throughout the course of the season and playoffs overcome bad penalties and breaks with superior talent, preparation and execution.

That's sports. Breaks, luck, whatever you want to call it. There is no perfect world where the officiating and breaks come out 50/50.

So to dwell on bad officiating is a fruitless effort, but be my guest, continue to beat that drum. It will result in nothing.

You are so deadset on this idea that anyone who criticizes the officials is somehow a less rational fan, that you are missing some valid points.

There is a truth between the extreme ends of what you have concocted, and what people are actually saying.

Did the refs purposefully gather Sunday afternoon and decide to screw Seattle? No. And nobody is really saying that they did. You keep implying this, and its a strawman.

But the statistics that we see over two years are not random. Something is off.

And as fans, it is frustrating to see games become increasingly difficult to win because of it.

Seems to me, we should be allowed to feel that valid frustration without someone telling us that its irrational.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Seems to me, we should be allowed to feel that valid frustration without someone telling us that its irrational.

The irrational part comes in when you think the stats mean something they don't.

Yes the Hawks are penalized more than other teams, but that's because we are playing very undisciplined and mistake prone football.

THAT'S what the stats show. Pete Carroll team's since his USC days preach aggressiveness, thuggery and imposing of wills, and that means more penalties.

This year we can throw in uncharacteristic undisciplined play, which has compounded what you guys are mistaking for "hey the refs don't call games fair." So when we do see a game with more bad calls against us, it's compounded by our own stupid and undisciplined play.

If we'd knock off the stupid penalties that ARE penalties, like Sherman's 3-4 holding and PI calls per game, and Bobby's pushing of a WR after 5 yards for NO reason, and Bennett's dumb offsides, neutral zone infraction or ill timed diving at the QB's legs then there would be plenty of room for a couple more penalties against us than the other team to win.

But you guys don't want to admit any of this, you'd just like to hyper focus on the 14 to 9 penalties. OMG 5 MORE PENALTIES! THE HUMANITY!

 

[Hawkpower]

Seems to me, we should be allowed to feel that valid frustration without someone telling us that its irrational.

The irrational part comes in when you think the stats mean something they don't.

Yes the Hawks are penalized more than other teams, but that's because we are playing very undisciplined and mistake prone football.

THAT'S what the stats show. Pete Carroll team's since his USC days preach aggressiveness, thuggery and imposing of wills, and that means more penalties.

This year we can throw in uncharacteristic undisciplined play, which has compounded what you guys are mistaking for "hey the refs don't call games fair." So when we do see a game with more bad calls against us, it's compounded by our own stupid and undisciplined play.

If we'd knock off the stupid penalties that ARE penalties, like Sherman's 3-4 holding and PI calls per game, and Bobby's pushing of a WR after 5 yards for NO reason, and Bennett's dumb offsides, neutral zone infraction or ill timed diving at the QB's legs then there would be plenty of room for a couple more penalties against us than the other team to win.

But you guys don't want to admit any of this, you'd just like to hyper focus on the 14 to 9 penalties. OMG 5 MORE PENALTIES! THE HUMANITY!

Once again, missing the point. This isnt about Seahawks being over penalized at all.

Not sure why you feel the need to be so condescending with your posts in this thread. Nobody is a better fan than another.

Seems like valid points are being made if you slow down enough to read them.

 

[Subzero717]

I too believe officiating is bad but it's not lopsided bad. It's equally horrible.

 

[kearly]

Seattle was 6th least penalized team until Sunday night, so no. your perception is not reality. Previous years, yes, but this year? No.

However, teams playing vs Seattle being called for less penalties than they commit on average is a two year reality. It is a fact, not an imaginary persecutorial complex.

Fans complaining that Fitz was grabbing Chancellor didn't imagine the non calls. They were uncalled holds. Fans complaining that Peterson never got called for holding, but was just as grabby as Sherman, aren't imagining it. Fans complaining that our first drive was torpedoed by an imaginary facemask are not imagining it.

Fans who notice that the Hawks have 5 first downs via penalty all year, when the league average is 19, are not imagining it.

Call it loser complaining all you want. I prefer facts. While you and the knee jerk fan who screams fixed! every time his team loses occupy opposite ends of the spectrum, neither of you represent a balanced look at the facts. Pretending that great teams can overcome bad calls through pure effort of will and desire to win is just as crazy as dropping Vegas into the conversation about one sided officiating.

So rather that play the better fan card, which is what you are doing, perhaps you can offer a more rational explanation as to why fans of both teams witnessed one of the most incompetently officiated games of the year.

Thanks for the stats and perspective. I try to avoid playing the officiating card whenever possible, but I thought Sunday night was the most uneven officiating performance against Seattle since the Colts in 2013. Sometimes these games happen, and when they do, Seattle almost always loses.

And as you point out, there is a growing sample size of officiating discrepancy against Seattle. I avoid twitter but it would be cool if someone tweeted Pete or Paul Allen some of those numbers.

 

[sutz]

Done being a part of this whiny fanbase. Ban me, don't care, you all are bunch of whiny bitches.

You won't be missed.

I always love when the first post I see from a poster is a GCW. :laugh:


(Goodbye Cruel World for the uninitiated. )

 

[kearly]

For the record, Russ should have had a safety on his throw away from the endzone. So Cards fans bitching about scoreboard affecting bad calls have a point too.

It was setup by a phantom hold that wiped out a nice 6 yard run, but yeah, that was definitely a break for Seattle.

There was also an early whistle + a correct though chippy defensive holding call that resulted in an instant 14 point swing in Seattle's favor later in the game.

But still, it felt like there were about 7-10 momentum changing bad calls in this game, and 2 of them went against AZ. I can't guarantee that Seattle wins in a well called game, but I think their chances to win would have been a hell of a lot higher.

I really wish there was a site that tracked WP added or lost by officiating in a game. I guess I could spend a few hours and figure it out myself, but I have a life now.

 

[rideaducati]

This is why I still have faith that the Seahawks will win the division. The cards won't have help in all of their games.

This one is over guys...on to the next one. GO HAWKS!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Not sure why you feel the need to be so condescending with your posts in this thread. Nobody is a better fan than another..

Because I am a man of great passion and conviction...............I also enjoy long walks on the beach, hottubbing in the rain and the musical stylings of Paul Anka.

 

[Hawkpower]

Not sure why you feel the need to be so condescending with your posts in this thread. Nobody is a better fan than another..

Because I am a man of great passion and conviction...............I also enjoy long walks on the beach, hottubbing in the rain and the musical stylings of Paul Anka.

Just for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=racI0x0E7vc