Per ESPN/Schefter, Hawks trade for OT Duane Brown

Status
Not open for further replies.

scrummymustard

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
170
Reaction score
0
kidhawk":2ivi5srj said:
scrummymustard":2ivi5srj said:
mikeak":2ivi5srj said:
kidhawk":2ivi5srj said:
Directly from your link...



All remaining bonuses already paid and prorated accelerate to count against the current cap.


Key word is REMAINING

It excludes signing bonus which we all know in case of release can be pushed to next year. By knowing that it clearly showed hat the sentence quoted doesn't apply to signing bonus. REMAINING bonus would be performance bonus etc

Edit: confirmed as 2019 cap spend for Lane $6 million

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/

Spotrac is a great tool, but sometimes they don't fully update their site correctly after trades/releases.

There will be no cap spend for Lane in 2019 on the Hawks cap. $6 million is his cap hit for the Texans in '18 & '19. He'll be off our books in 2018.

Yup...Spotrac is wrong in listing his 2019 salary on our list. It's not surprising. These sites are getting the information and translating it to quickly get the figures out to the people. Sites like Spotrac and Overthecap usually get it all situated and cleared up over the next few days. Even that $2.5 million figure for next year isn't set in stone. That really depends on what Pete and John want to do moving forward. As Wilson created enough cap room with his cap restructure to take on the cap hit from the Brown trade, without further moves, that doesn't create enough space to take Lanes hit this year, so it's looking more likely they are pushing it off til next year. The problem with that is that it is going to give us that much less money to re-sign the list of players we need to re-sign, and if renegotiating Brown's deal isn't being done behind the scenes right now, then you can add his to the list. Even though he's got another year on the deal, it's a safe bet that he doesn't want to play under that deal next year as he already held out this year wanting a new contract. We may need to start preparing ourselves for some hard decisions by 2019.

They don't get an option with the $2.5 million, its automatically moved to the next league year (2018), as per the CBA. All of the remaining SB proration would accelerate onto the 2017 cap IF this was the last year of Lane's contract. Teams only get an option if they cut/trade a player before June 1; they then get an option to treat 2 players as cut/traded post June 1. Since its past June 1, there is no option. The $2.5 million cap hit will be accelerated to 2018.

Regardless, with the rollover of cap space, even if they had an option, there's 0 reason to not push the $2.5 million to next year in case someone gets injured and/or they have to sign someone else. If no one gets injured/or they don't sign anyone else in 2017, their cap space for 2018 will remain exactly the same because of the rollover.
 

scrummymustard

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
170
Reaction score
0
SoulfishHawk":1cin0km7 said:
And how do we know it wasn't an idea from Russ? Wouldn't be surprised at all. And he could have said no.

No players ever say no to a restructure (when its not a pay cut). They get nearly their full salary cash immediately and his DEAD cap increases for the remaining years on the contract, thus making it harder for teams to cut a player. Not saying they are even looking at that option for Russell, just pointing out the dead cap ramifications.
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
30,196
Reaction score
10,650
Location
Sammamish, WA
Meh, since it's Russ, I'm sure plenty of people will shoot down the idea that he could have suggested it anyway. Let alone just saying that he's somehow doing it for his own good :roll:
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
SoulfishHawk":2nphuntz said:
Meh, since it's Russ, I'm sure plenty of people will shoot down the idea that he could have suggested it anyway. Let alone just saying that he's somehow doing it for his own good :roll:

If you're Russell, you do it for pure survival.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,988
Reaction score
529
I'm surprised at this trade. Not unpleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless.

This isn't a hugely good move for Houston. They expose their thrilling new franchise QB in exchange for a cornerback who's been underperforming since his injury in XLIX and a 2nd-rounder. I'm pretty sure, just like the Kearse trade, that the 2nd-rounder was probably more than 50% of the trade, and it's going to be more like a high 3rd-rounder, really, given Seattle's likely drafting position. I guess Rick Smith wanted something out of Brown's likely departure after this season, but a premiere left tackle seems like a high price - especially given Houston's potential as a playoff contender this season and ESPECIALLY after Brown actually ended his holdout and played.

One might be tempted to laud Schneider as a wizard today, but the benefits have their limits for Seattle, too. We get a very good but aging left tackle. There's a reason 32-year-old players make GM's hesitate; should Brown suffer an injury (God forbid knock on wood throw salt over the left shoulder REVERSE JINX), he has only one or two more years of quality play ahead of him to justify the trade. A draftee, on the other hand, would have ten and a more resilient body. Would having that (essentially) high 3rd-rounder back get us a Duane Brown-quality player in the draft? Not as likely, but it would still stand a good chance of landing us a league-average-or-above. A lot of people here on this board were high (whether justifiably or not) on tackles who wound up going early or mid 2nd.

Now we don't have another 2nd-rounder now until 2020. That's a lot less draft capital to play with, especially in a market where good tackles are increasingly at a premium (and George Fant remains an unknown).

It's also a little weird to see so many people in this thread hailing this trade as urgently necessary and trashing our entire OL after they've been (by all accounts) improving dramatically as a unit for a month, and especially right after a game in which Russell Wilson threw for 452 yards and four touchdowns despite still playing behind Rees Odhiambo. I won't harp on this point too much because that OL wouldn't look as good against a defense offering better than a depleted Houston DL and a secondary that's just as bad as Jeremy Lane, but seriously - if there's a QB out there not named DeShaun Watson who's more immune to OL problems than Wilson, let me know. The position just isn't as important on this team. I don't know how many more years of high performance Wilson needs to display before folks start changing their narratives accordingly. One gets the sense that Wilson could still be pulling his Houdinis at age 45 after three Super Bowl wins and people would still be insisting that we're wasting our franchise QB.

Where the trade might really come through for the Seahawks is in the run game. Brown comes from a Houston line that was amongst the best in zone blocking (an accomplishment their RBs haven't really exploited) and he himself was apparently ranked 7th in the league at his position in run blocking. If this allows us to run to the left where we couldn't before, the value becomes tremendous given our need to shore up the running game and, accordingly, our playoff prospects.

This is a win-now move. It's a decent win-now move and significantly improves us this year, but it's not as brilliant as the Sheldon Richardson trade and it might not have happened at all without 1) Brown's discontent and 2) a lot of dumbness amongst several people in the Texans organization, including its mouth-running owner. Much of the trade's value comes from Wilson's willingness to restructure his own contract, which makes sense but wasn't necessarily something that any of us could see coming. It is, however, significantly better than giving up Jimmy Graham, so in that sense, one could call it modest highway robbery on John Schneider's part.
 

kidhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
23,098
Reaction score
2,976
Location
Anchorage, AK
scrummymustard":3i0mieyw said:
kidhawk":3i0mieyw said:
scrummymustard":3i0mieyw said:
mikeak":3i0mieyw said:
Key word is REMAINING

It excludes signing bonus which we all know in case of release can be pushed to next year. By knowing that it clearly showed hat the sentence quoted doesn't apply to signing bonus. REMAINING bonus would be performance bonus etc

Edit: confirmed as 2019 cap spend for Lane $6 million

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/

Spotrac is a great tool, but sometimes they don't fully update their site correctly after trades/releases.

There will be no cap spend for Lane in 2019 on the Hawks cap. $6 million is his cap hit for the Texans in '18 & '19. He'll be off our books in 2018.

Yup...Spotrac is wrong in listing his 2019 salary on our list. It's not surprising. These sites are getting the information and translating it to quickly get the figures out to the people. Sites like Spotrac and Overthecap usually get it all situated and cleared up over the next few days. Even that $2.5 million figure for next year isn't set in stone. That really depends on what Pete and John want to do moving forward. As Wilson created enough cap room with his cap restructure to take on the cap hit from the Brown trade, without further moves, that doesn't create enough space to take Lanes hit this year, so it's looking more likely they are pushing it off til next year. The problem with that is that it is going to give us that much less money to re-sign the list of players we need to re-sign, and if renegotiating Brown's deal isn't being done behind the scenes right now, then you can add his to the list. Even though he's got another year on the deal, it's a safe bet that he doesn't want to play under that deal next year as he already held out this year wanting a new contract. We may need to start preparing ourselves for some hard decisions by 2019.

They don't get an option with the $2.5 million, its automatically moved to the next league year (2018), as per the CBA. All of the remaining SB proration would accelerate onto the 2017 cap IF this was the last year of Lane's contract. Teams only get an option if they cut/trade a player before June 1; they then get an option to treat 2 players as cut/traded post June 1. Since its past June 1, there is no option. The $2.5 million cap hit will be accelerated to 2018.

Regardless, with the rollover of cap space, even if they had an option, there's 0 reason to not push the $2.5 million to next year in case someone gets injured and/or they have to sign someone else. If no one gets injured/or they don't sign anyone else in 2017, their cap space for 2018 will remain exactly the same because of the rollover.

Either way, my original point on the subject was that moving Lane doesn't clear cap space for Brown. Brown makes too much money. This is why I assumed we'd either extend Graham or Restructure Brown. They chose to go with restructuring Wilson, which works too, but it now has moved that money from this season forward, eating a little more cap room each season moving forward. We're going to have to do some real interesting contracts this off season to keep players here and happy or we'll be making some tough decisions on who not to bring back (or a combination of the two).
 

Danny Darko

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
427
Reaction score
0
JS: "Russell, we need to rework your contract if you want someone to watch your blindside"
Russ: "you don't have to twist my arm!... or my neck...or my knee, or my ankle..."
 

kidhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
23,098
Reaction score
2,976
Location
Anchorage, AK
MontanaHawk05":1z8zffrk said:
This is a win-now move. It's a decent win-now move and significantly improves us this year, but it's not as brilliant as the Sheldon Richardson trade and it might not have happened at all without 1) Brown's discontent and 2) a lot of dumbness amongst several people in the Texans organization, including its mouth-running owner. Much of the trade's value comes from Wilson's willingness to restructure his own contract, which makes sense but wasn't necessarily something that any of us could see coming. It is, however, significantly better than giving up Jimmy Graham, so in that sense, one could call it modest highway robbery on John Schneider's part.

This and the Richardson trade are both part of a win now philosophy. We need to re-sign both of them to make the deals worthwhile. Even winning a Superbowl, that would be a high price to pay. I think the organization knows that we have a unique set of highly talented players on this team who are getting older. The window on our current core group is getting smaller every year. This isn't to say that we can't continue to win once this core group is gone, but there is something special about this current core group that is irreplaceable. Our time is definitely now and I for one am both extremely glad that we are making the most of our chances today to win now, and at the same time concerned with how these moves affect our future drafting and salary cap implications.
 

bigskydoc

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
4,131
Reaction score
1,479
Location
Kalispell, MT
Oline

More o-line picks than any other team since 2010. The results speak for themselves. We aren't drafting a starting quality left tackle. Drafting Trading for a known quality left tackle was the only way we were going to get one.

edited for the obvious (Trading not Drafting)
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
MontanaHawk05":15qzdoaj said:
Now we don't have another 2nd-rounder now until 2020. That's a lot less draft capital to play with, especially in a market where good tackles are increasingly at a premium (and George Fant remains an unknown).
t.

Not sure how you can still doubt Schneider and his amazing ability to manipulate the draft and acquire picks with whatever he's given to work with on draft day.

My only concern about Brown and what happened yesterday is I'd be nervous about giving a 32 year old LT the monster long term deal he's looking for.
 

scutterhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
9,826
Reaction score
1,797
Seymour":1y5rm92d said:
Pocic playing right next to Brown is going to benefit from this trade as well. Having to play next to Rees who is still getting owned all to regularly was not the best position to put him in. :2thumbs:
You betcha, the 'Ripple Affect' will actually help all the way across the line.
I just remember how much having Walter Jones playing next to Steve Hutchinson locked down Hasselbeck's blind side.
If Wilson doesn't have to split his focus as much on every snap, he's going to have even more success finding his open Receivers, + the Run Game can maybe get back on track with Brown's acquisition.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,988
Reaction score
529
Sgt. Largent":1s0vbue7 said:
MontanaHawk05":1s0vbue7 said:
Now we don't have another 2nd-rounder now until 2020. That's a lot less draft capital to play with, especially in a market where good tackles are increasingly at a premium (and George Fant remains an unknown).
t.

Not sure how you can still doubt Schneider and his amazing ability to manipulate the draft and acquire picks with whatever he's given to work with on draft day.

He usually has a 2nd-round pick to do that with.

And I wouldn't call the aggregate tone of my post as "doubt", especially given the last line I wrote.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
MontanaHawk05":1viw5bm1 said:
Sgt. Largent":1viw5bm1 said:
MontanaHawk05":1viw5bm1 said:
Now we don't have another 2nd-rounder now until 2020. That's a lot less draft capital to play with, especially in a market where good tackles are increasingly at a premium (and George Fant remains an unknown).
t.

Not sure how you can still doubt Schneider and his amazing ability to manipulate the draft and acquire picks with whatever he's given to work with on draft day.

He usually has a 2nd-round pick to do that with.

And I wouldn't call the aggregate tone of my post as "doubt", especially given the last line I wrote.

Fair enough, but even typing it tells me you're concerned about it...........and I'm telling you don't be.

Plenty of time between now and next year's draft to figure out how to get those picks back. But now? We've got a defense that's aging right in front of our very eyes, so we need to take advantage of a 5-2 record and another chance at going back to a SB.

IMO there's no time to be cautious with picks or trades. The NFL is about taking advantage of your windows of opportunity, and Pete and John know we don't have a great shot at going deep into the playoffs without a LT, run game and protecting Russell. This one trade takes care of hopefully all three.
 

Seymour

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
7,459
Reaction score
22
MontanaHawk05":312v79d1 said:
Sgt. Largent":312v79d1 said:
MontanaHawk05":312v79d1 said:
Now we don't have another 2nd-rounder now until 2020. That's a lot less draft capital to play with, especially in a market where good tackles are increasingly at a premium (and George Fant remains an unknown).
t.

Not sure how you can still doubt Schneider and his amazing ability to manipulate the draft and acquire picks with whatever he's given to work with on draft day.

He usually has a 2nd-round pick to do that with.

And I wouldn't call the aggregate tone of my post as "doubt", especially given the last line I wrote.

The tradeoff of losing the 2nd AND pushing cap money down the road is concerning. That said, we could spend 2-3 more drafts whiffing on olinemen or do this. I say take the chance and go for it, even though the cap hell down the road could eventually bite us.
 

Attyla the Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
2,559
Reaction score
47
Maelstrom787":1qo4mj3n said:
It's an alright trade, but I'm not overly excited, honestly.

That second is an important asset, and Brown is older and there are some concerns about his health/ability to play at a high level for much longer.

I'm not terribly worried about this. One, it's a 2019 pick. Two, this defense is likely to be a top ten defense for the next two years, but beyond that it's likely to decay. The window with this core group is really 2018/19 anyway.


Maelstrom787":1qo4mj3n said:
I just wish Fant hadn't been injured in the first place. We'd have better play than O provided at LT, a year growth for a great prospect, and our draft assets.

Agreed. The ability to not rush Fant in 2018 has a lot of value. I'd imagine he starts the year on PUP based on his particular injury. Seattle can't go through this year and half of next with a duct taped tackle situation.

IMO, it's an acceptable move. And if you consider that 2021 probably will not see football at all once this CBA expires, sacrificing future draft stock isn't all that unwise.
 

gowazzu02

New member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
0
Sgt. Largent":3f7yausl said:
MontanaHawk05":3f7yausl said:
Sgt. Largent":3f7yausl said:
MontanaHawk05":3f7yausl said:
Now we don't have another 2nd-rounder now until 2020. That's a lot less draft capital to play with, especially in a market where good tackles are increasingly at a premium (and George Fant remains an unknown).
t.

Not sure how you can still doubt Schneider and his amazing ability to manipulate the draft and acquire picks with whatever he's given to work with on draft day.

He usually has a 2nd-round pick to do that with.

And I wouldn't call the aggregate tone of my post as "doubt", especially given the last line I wrote.

Fair enough, but even typing it tells me you're concerned about it...........and I'm telling you don't be.

Plenty of time between now and next year's draft to figure out how to get those picks back. But now? We've got a defense that's aging right in front of our very eyes, so we need to take advantage of a 5-2 record and another chance at going back to a SB.

IMO there's no time to be cautious with picks or trades. The NFL is about taking advantage of your windows of opportunity, and Pete and John know we don't have a great shot at going deep into the playoffs without a LT, run game and protecting Russell. This one trade takes care of hopefully all three.



Exactly. Couldn't of said it better myself.

Also, if you dont think JS will be taking our 1 (hopefully number 32 overall) and trading it for a 2nd and 4th/5th type deal you haven't been paying attention.

There are QB's that are going to be late round guys like Bridgewater and Lynch (two times we've traded down recently) who will be there. Someone will want to get back up into the first for them.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
Seymour":tdwh3ab7 said:
The tradeoff of losing the 2nd AND pushing cap money down the road is concerning. That said, we could spend 2-3 more drafts whiffing on olinemen or do this. I say take the chance and go for it, even though the cap hell down the road could eventually bite us.

Bingo.

Haven't we all had enough of our front office O-line draft philosophy? It's broken..............and Pete and John know it, thus going after known commodities like Lang, Joeckel and now Brown.

I know some people don't understand how important the LT position is, but other than QB, it's THE most important position on the team. To get a guy like Brown, who's a top 5 LT? It's monumental, and all we gave up was a couple picks and a DB who can't stay healthy and was expendable anyway.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,988
Reaction score
529
Sgt. Largent":1eskrfan said:
I know some people don't understand how important the LT position is, but other than QB, it's THE most important position on the team.

452 yards, 4 touchdowns.

Though - again - it's the run-blocking dividends that I really want to see.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top