Poll - Pay Russell #1 QB Money, or Nah?

[Popeyejones]

If it gives you the best chance to win, pay him, if not? Don't. But it has nothing to do with how many times Russell throws it or any other stat other than wins baby!

His argument, and I think it's the correct one, is that how many times a game your QB throws it is directly related to his affect on your probability of winning.

Think about it this way. The Seahawks, Broncos, and Packers all went 12-4 last year.

What do you think the Hawks' record would have been if Wilson missed the entire season? How about the Broncos for Manning, or the Packers for Rogers?

If you think the Seahawks would have had a better record without their starting QB than the Broncos or Packers would have without their starting QBs then you agree with Salk's point.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I answered this poll with the second option. I was more in line with the ignore the second option and go with the Look at Waggie and Sweezy (because Scooby was not on the list).

Go Hawks.

 

[StoneCold]

If it gives you the best chance to win, pay him, if not? Don't. But it has nothing to do with how many times Russell throws it or any other stat other than wins baby!

His argument, and I think it's the correct one, is that how many times a game your QB throws it is directly related to his affect on your probability of winning.

Think about it this way. The Seahawks, Broncos, and Packers all went 12-4 last year.

What do you think the Hawks' record would have been if Wilson missed the entire season? How about the Broncos for Manning, or the Packers for Rogers?

If you think the Seahawks would have had a better record without their starting QB than the Broncos or Packers would have without their starting QBs then you agree with Salk's point.

It's not that I agree or disagree with Salk, I think he's focused on the wrong stat.

As to whether we or they would be worse off without our No1 QB's? I think we have a better backup than they do.

SC

 

[Hasselbeck]

Does he deserve #1 QB money? No.. not at all.

But we have to pay it. Quarterback is by far the most difficult position to replace.

 

[grizbob]

Does he deserve #1 QB money? No.. not at all.

But we have to pay it. Quarterback is by far the most difficult position to replace.

I dunno man, we gotta punter with a higher career passer rating :stirthepot:

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Does he deserve #1 QB money? No.. not at all.

But we have to pay it. Quarterback is by far the most difficult position to replace.

I dunno man, we gotta punter with a higher career passer rating :stirthepot:

:thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers:

 

[TheRealDTM]

How about the option:

Pay him like a top qb now, because in a year or two he'll be locked into those numbers and he'll drop down into the 5-10 highest paid quarterback range.

Why do you say that? Are you thinking there might be new quarterbacks who deserve the money? I thought they were impossible to find?

 

[ctrcat]

How about the option:

Pay him like a top qb now, because in a year or two he'll be locked into those numbers and he'll drop down into the 5-10 highest paid quarterback range.

Why do you say that? Are you thinking there might be new quarterbacks who deserve the money? I thought they were impossible to find?

Agree 100%. I was just trying to make sense of the rationale that if RW is the top paid now, that he won't be in the near future.

 

[SnoCoHawk]

John should ask him and his agent about the last throw of the Super Bowl... :stirthepot:

Or the first 55 minutes of the NFCCG. That was some craptastic play there.

The leaks and media are making it seem like Russell is fixated on being the highest paid player in the league, like that's more important than the actual number. If true, what's that about? The satisfaction of rubbing it in all the "he's too short" people's faces? Or because he truly thinks he's the best player in the league? I really hope he's not insisting on crippling the team just for his own ego.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Does he deserve #1 QB money? No.. not at all.

But we have to pay it. Quarterback is by far the most difficult position to replace.

I dunno man, we gotta punter with a higher career passer rating :stirthepot:

You're damn straight. :th2thumbs:

 

[scutterhawk]

John should ask him and his agent about the last throw of the Super Bowl... :stirthepot:

A single play?, yeah, they should do that :roll:...

Yes. A single play that caused them to fall short of the sport's ultimate goal. :roll:

We lost that game because our Vaunted Defense couldn't stop Brady from making a 10 point come back, THAT's what ultimately put Wilson in the position to having to take the Offense down the field, and to the 2 yard line (with a shit for pass protection O-Line), ONLY to have Darryl Bevell make the messed up play call for Wilson. :roll: the same play call that Pete Carroll had agreed, at the time, was the right call :roll:
Now you actually want John Schneider to insult Wilson with a childish question like that?

Also, it's pretty hard to say (with any real accuracy) how many games that Wilson, or any of the other top Quarterbacks are responsible for winning, or losing a certain number of games.
So, Wilson is playing for a "run first" Offensive scheme?(probably because the Offensive line has been built for the run), and not for protecting the Quarterback, because there's no true #1 Receiver on the team.
Oh, and Wilson is responsible for about 900 Yards of that #1 "run first offense"
Wilson is playing exactly the way Pete Carroll, and the other Coaches have asked him to, they all know that he's having to fill a lot of holes that are not of his making.

 

[kf3339]

I am probably in the minority, but he still hasn't proven to me that he is an elite QB. I think he is very good in some respects but still has holes in his game that a true elite QB should have fixed by now. He stills doesn't throw into tight windows and holds unto the ball too long. He still at times seems afraid to take a chance with throwing the ball when I have seen Rogers, Manning, Brees, Brady, ect. make the throw with great results.

What I am hoping to see this year is if having Graham and a hopeful even more ready Mathews do for his confidence with those type of throws. If he really shows improvement in the above areas then I have no problem him getting #1 QB money. But if not then I don't see more than a top 10+/- QB and should be paid in that range.

If he wants more than that trade him for what we can get next off-season. That is how I see it anyway.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's interesting that the tide's kinda turned on Russell over the past couple of months.

I think when this whole process started, most people were on Russell's side. Pay the man, he's elite, he's been working for peanuts, time to get paid, etc.

Now? The sentiment seems to be turning towards Russell needs to stop being greedy and accept the Hawks more than fair offer.

 

[Happy]

This team has a long dark history of Mediocre quarterback play. I can remember a day in the not too distant past when most Seahawk fans would give their firstborn child for a good quarterback.

A couple of super bowl appearances later, now it's like 'don't pay this guy; he's not worth the money'.

Without perspective, you got nothing. Just sayin'.

 

[kidhawk]

It's interesting that the tide's kinda turned on Russell over the past couple of months.

I think when this whole process started, most people were on Russell's side. Pay the man, he's elite, he's been working for peanuts, time to get paid, etc.

Now? The sentiment seems to be turning towards Russell needs to stop being greedy and accept the Hawks more than fair offer.

I don't think it's sentiment as much as it's people wanting the deal done already. Patience is a virture....one many of us (myself included) have a short supply of at times

 

[HAWKAMANIA]

In a league with high-flying offenses, where teams throw ~60% or more, it's nice to have the defense we have. They can shut down just about any offense and any quarterback. To me, that is too important to potentially damage by taking money away from them and giving it to Russell. Russell is a good quarterback, but I'm not sure if he can consistently pick up the slack if the Seahawks had an average defense. He does seem to be a miracle worker but let's be honest, the defense is the strong point of this team, that's where the money should be invested.

 

[grizbob]

This team has a long dark history of Mediocre quarterback play. I can remember a day in the not too distant past when most Seahawk fans would give their firstborn child for a good quarterback.

A couple of super bowl appearances later, now it's like 'don't pay this guy; he's not worth the money'.

Without perspective, you got nothing. Just sayin'.

Eggs act lee :shock:

 

[MVP53]

The funny thing about these contracts for NFL players is how they are an inexact science. Baseball has Wins above Replacement (WAR), and it's a very simple calculation to figure out how many millions of dollars 1 WAR is worth.

Fuzzy math alert.

I love Byron Maxwell, but how many 'wins' is he worth on his own? Maybe half a win if we are being generous? How about KJ Wright, a quarter win perhaps? How Cliff Avril? Maybe half a win?

Add those players up, and you get a total AYP of $24.35 million, which buys you probably about 1.25 wins.

By contrast, Seattle was a 7 win team before Wilson, and has averaged 12 wins per year with him, a difference of 5 wins. You can't give Wilson ALL the credit for that difference, but it's probably safe to say that Wilson is a 4 win player.

Okay, I'll bite. By replacement player, are you talking average NFL starter, or are you talking RJ Archer?

I don't know that the "replacement level" premise works the same way, as there is basically zero chance that you would call a guy up from the Arena League and insert him into your starting lineup.

Tarvaris won 7, right? Since then, we have improved at 19 of the 22 starting positions, and have improved at all 31 of the other depth spots.

I would bet good money that Tarvaris would have won AT LEAST ten games with our current roster last season. Does that seem fair?

And Tarvaris by all accounts is below the average NFL starter, correct?

Go back through the games from last year. What four games did we win because we had Russell Wilson that we wouldn't have won with a league average starting QB?

Andrew Luck has proven that he can take an otherwise mediocre at best roster, put an entire team on his shoulders, and get them to a AFC title game. You pay a guy that can do that, unquestionably.

I'm not saying Russell can't do that. I'm just saying that if you pay Russell, there is a bit of an educated guess and hope that he would be able to do the same thing, simply because he hasn't been asked to do it before. Our roster is undoubtedly going to start to become thinner if we give our QB a 25 million per year raise. So it really comes down to this question...do you believe Russell is going to be supremely successful when he isn't on the best roster in the league?

Because I am a little worried about what I believe might be an issue with, and lack of shown improvement in correctly diagnosing blitzes and coverages, and because of what paying a huge money to a QB does to the future success of your franchise, as beaten to death in other threads, I would not personally make Russell Wilson one of the highest paid QB's in the NFL. Run-on sentence be damned.

Important to note, in baseball the "Replacement Level" part of WAR is not an average player. And "average" player is actually worth about 2 WAR. "Replacement Level" basically means worst player at that position.

So, if Mike Trout is worth 10 WAR, it means he is 10 games better than whomever Anaheim could theoretically call up from AAA (superstar prospects not withstanding), and means he's about 8 games better than a league average CF.

Also important to note, the best player in baseball is generally worth about 8-10 wins. If we're saying Russell is worth 4, that would translate to about 40 wins on the baseball scale.

If a WAR were to exist for football, I'm fairly certain Russell Wilson would not be worth 4 wins. He would probably be worth closer to half a win maybe.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's interesting that the tide's kinda turned on Russell over the past couple of months.

I think when this whole process started, most people were on Russell's side. Pay the man, he's elite, he's been working for peanuts, time to get paid, etc.

Now? The sentiment seems to be turning towards Russell needs to stop being greedy and accept the Hawks more than fair offer.

I don't think it's sentiment as much as it's people wanting the deal done already. Patience is a virture....one many of us (myself included) have a short supply of at times

idk, the vibe I'm getting on this site, and listening to the sports radio stations is most people now are irritated with Russell's demand to be the highest paid player in the NFL.............which his agent just acknowledged this morning.

The Hawks are offering more than Cam's deal, and slightly less than Rodgers................and it's a four year player friendly deal which means Russell has the opportunity to cash in again at age 30. Why is he not taking the deal?

 

[Popeyejones]

It's interesting that the tide's kinda turned on Russell over the past couple of months.

I think when this whole process started, most people were on Russell's side. Pay the man, he's elite, he's been working for peanuts, time to get paid, etc.

Now? The sentiment seems to be turning towards Russell needs to stop being greedy and accept the Hawks more than fair offer.

I agree with this.

And not to jab anybody in the ribs, but I think PART OF THAT is that because of all of Wilson's outspoken religiosity, charity work, and monotone "go team"-isms, there were perhaps even more people than usual who had convinced themselves that Wilson would be signing some magically team friendly deal rather than wanting to get paid what he thinks he's worth.

Usually the "team friendly" thing is just the wishful thinking of super fans, but with Wilson, I think there's some little mistaken element among some people of thinking he has mischaraterized himself somehow.

(Not that I agree with any of this or even remotely fault him for wanting what he thinks he's worth)