Poll - Pay Russell #1 QB Money, or Nah?

[hawknation2015]

Wilson has been a highly productive Super Bowl winning QB.
The market for QB like Wilson is what it is.
You either make him the #1 QB now or gamble on how he plays next year.
Next year he might win the SB and then you'll have to pay him more then whatever Luck gets.

Pay now or pay later?

lol if he wins another superbowl he can have all the money in the world. If he would have won the last one we aren't having this discussion.

Yes we are.

 

[jammerhawk]

John should ask him and his agent about the last throw of the Super Bowl... :stirthepot:

Or the first 55 minutes of the NFCCG. That was some craptastic play there.

The leaks and media are making it seem like Russell is fixated on being the highest paid player in the league, like that's more important than the actual number. If true, what's that about? The satisfaction of rubbing it in all the "he's too short" people's faces? Or because he truly thinks he's the best player in the league? I really hope he's not insisting on crippling the team just for his own ego.

I find it hard to blame Wilson for the stone hands of Kearse in the NFCCG almost everyone of those turnovers was on Kearse and not Wilson. The final play in XLIX was more a stupid call that was telegraphed to a CB who'd seen it run a thousand times before and knew exactly what was coming and disrupted the needed blocking than on RW. For sure Browner told his partner on that side what was coming and the route got jumped. Lockette as well is not known for his hands. Why the team didn't run against a D that statistically couldn't stop it inside the 5 completely escapes me and did when the pass was picked off. I'm still upset about that call but can move on but for sure don't blame Wilson when there are several better options for the blame if you are into blame games.

I suspect the team and Wilson are a lot closer to a deal than we have been lead to believe and the hard numbers are top five money or even top three numbers. What will be, will be, on this deal; but he's not going anywhere for at least a few more seasons whatever happens. Regardless,the strong will to win of Wilson was a huge factor in that OT NFCCG win with Wilson keeping faith in Kearse despite his atrocious play earlier in the game. The positives of the W outweigh the negatives. Wilson also got the team to the 4 yd line in scoring drive to take the W in XLIX. He wanted to win and his will to win is strong and it drives the O.

The wins over replacement formula for determining Wilson's value is certainly interesting in a mathematical way but is seemingly flawed by making a comparison that is relevant or fair. At least to me as a fair comparison is hard to measure. As can be interpreted I voted RW should be paid top five money. I believe he is a special QB and is far from reaching his maximum potential yet. How many QBs have a strong arm, can make all the throws, can run with authority and elusivness, or simply buy time in the pocket to create something from a broken play behind an OLine that is weak pass protecting? In the whole league there sure aren't many. I get the arguments that he should be paid #1 money just think he's not yet the # 1 guy in the league but for sure is in the very elite group.

Is he worth #1 money? It's certainly arguable that he could be yet where is he in terms of numbers on the board? If we only count Ws he's for sure got an argument. However, if we only use his raw offensive numbers he's not quite there yet but can argue he's limited by the team's run first O. What is the fair metric?

There is a lot of pissing and moaning going on amongst the media yet the parties keep working at it relatively quietly. There is always a tendency to overthink this stuff and for some to fret about it. If anyone thinks the team isn't going to keep Wilson and come to deal with him they are deluded. Good things come to those who wait. There have been some really thoughtful posts in this thread.

 

[HansGruber]

Russell Wilson will be the highest paid quarterback in the NFL. And he's earned it.

All this jibber jabber is just fodder from a media desperate to create a story during the off-season. The Seahawks will pay Wilson and they've been planning for it for 2 years already.

Anyone who suggests the Seahawks would let him walk shouldn't be taken seriously. No way Schneider let's that happen. No way. Zero chance.

 

[vonstout]

I just want to watch the team keep winning, which means continue to follow the Win Forever model, which means pay him as much as possible under this model to maximize his happiness under the model.

If this is not enough to keep him, then win with him for three more years while we franchise him.

This gives us three years to find his replacement, and to further develop the team to win with the replacement quarterback.

if we non-exclusive franchise him he will be a brown next year and we will have a top 10 pick plus our own late round pick for the next 2 drafts. Really not that bad for the team. Only person it would suck for is RW's legacy

If we can't sign him and we win the SB next year, I'd have no problem if we non-exclusive tag him and the Browns sign him. With 4 first rounders in two years, we could trade up for Cardale Jones and also go after the Buckeye RB. The other Buckeye QBs aren't bad either. I'd rather keep RW, but if we offered him $21.8/year for 4 years, I wouldn't go much more. It might cost us Wagner.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I just want to watch the team keep winning, which means continue to follow the Win Forever model, which means pay him as much as possible under this model to maximize his happiness under the model.

If this is not enough to keep him, then win with him for three more years while we franchise him.

This gives us three years to find his replacement, and to further develop the team to win with the replacement quarterback.

if we non-exclusive franchise him he will be a brown next year and we will have a top 10 pick plus our own late round pick for the next 2 drafts. Really not that bad for the team. Only person it would suck for is RW's legacy

RW already has the best start and is likely a HOF if he continues his play behind a better Browns O line and with good receivers. If JS is stupid enough to lose Wilson to a team like the Browns it might be worse for us than RW. If Wilson takes them to the playoffs he instantly becomes a savior and we hear talk of how he might have been underrated. And yes we'd have to face him eventually.

 

[HAWKAMANIA]

He'll likely get close to what he wants but the Seahawks have some time to work this out with the agent. I figure they'll just wait until next year when the salary cap jumps up another 8 million or so. I'm going to hate seeing some of the guys leave in order to make it happen but there really isnt anything out there available that comes close to Wilson, and his agent I'm sure has told him this. Russell will get paid a lot of money, probably more than anyone else for a year or two, but then the cap will continue to increase, other big name signal callers will get more than Russell, and then he'll be in the middle of his contract, not the highest paid but top 5-7 where he should be.

 

[Sac]

Man, even if we could trade RW for 3 firsts and some change, the 2 firsts in the next couple years would be in the high twenties at best.

Can you imagine RW on the Browns or the Bills? They'd be immediate contenders.

Just pay the man.

 

[scutterhawk]

He's worth #1 money, but can we afford to pay him that? At what cost to the rest of the team would it come?

People mistakenly say a team is "being stingy." The team doesn't get to keep that money, they HAVE to spend most of it, the question is, how do you get the best bang for your buck?

With an elite defense, and a running game.

A running game that includes RW's near 900 Yards.

People complain about the defense giving up points in the Superbowl, but they were decimated with injuries and the team didn't really have the cap space to buy depth.

And that is on Wilson?, (never mind that they have been paying him peanuts), and still having problems with cap restrictions? Wilson being WITHOUT a top tier Receiver on the Seahawks roster, he has to make due with player "Afterthought".

There were also complaints about the offensive line, problem is, we can't afford really good offensive linemen.

And Wilson has again had to make something out of nothing, because of this void, he had to fend for himself because of the crappy protection.

In order to keep Marshawn Lynch, and keep the #1 defense, John Schneider and Pete Carroll must spend the "capped" funds judiciously. For this reason, they have had a 3 plus year business model in place from the beginning.

Now Russell's Agent may have talked him in to wanting to be the #1 overall paid player in the NFL, or it may be on RW's bucket list, but just who is he willing to cut in order to make this happen? Russell Okung? Michael Bennett?
And Bennett wants to be paid a lot more money, you think he cares about JS or the CAP numbers?

And how are elite players like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas REALLY going to feel if JS and PC change the rules for Russell? Sure, in public they will say the right things, but imho, if Russell gets his rookie contract torn up, that will create disharmony, distrust, and dissension within the locker room.

You can't HONESTLY know what those guys would feel about RW getting paid, AND just for shits & giggles, what do you suppose they think about Bennett's fooferah?, Bruce Irvin?

Is THAT really worth stroking one's ego for? This is just conjecture, but what if he's wants to feel what it's like to be the highest paid player in the NFL? I would find it hard to believe that Russell is that kind of person, the kind that would put his own gains ahead of that of the teams, his teammates, and the long-suffering fans of Seattle.

You said it yourself "Conjecture"

Sure, he's definitely earned the right to be in the Top 5 paid QBs, and supposedly, that's what he has been offered.

He has also earned the right to be considered one of the best QBs in the league. Most seem to have him ranked between 5 and 10, I would rank him as #3.

But it takes 53 players and an elite Front Office to keep a team great. And there's no argument that the QB is the most important of those 53, but what must the team sacrifice in order to pay that QB elite money?

And what good is an elite QB on a mediocre team? Just look at Peyton Manning's history, elite QB, mediocre team, won a SINGLE Superbowl. I'm not willing to settle for that.

There's a lot of KEY Defensive players that have gotten paid, so how many of these top tier players would we lose, if we pay Wilson?

 

[Tical21]

Man, even if we could trade RW for 3 firsts and some change, the 2 firsts in the next couple years would be in the high twenties at best.

Can you imagine RW on the Browns or the Bills? They'd be immediate contenders.

Just pay the man.

25? 27?

 

[Tical21]

I know we're going to pay him, and I know it's going to get done, and I know he wins games, but seriously, burrito Russell Wilson. Schneider and Carroll made that guy. They gave him the easiest darn QB job imaginable, gave him the absolute perfect role for his skillset, and bottle-fed him. Teams can't even play zone against him because of the running back he has and the read zone. They handed him the best roster in the NFL, one of the best defenses in NFL history, and said, "here, don't mess this up, make some plays for us if you can, we'll win big, and you'll be the king of the world." And now, now this kid wants to hold them hostage. Dude can't even beat single-high man coverage consistently and wants to be the highest paid player in the history of the NFL. Burrito that guy.

 

[scutterhawk]

I know we're going to pay him, and I know it's going to get done, and I know he wins games, but seriously, burrito Russell Wilson. Schneider and Carroll made that guy. They gave him the easiest darn QB job imaginable, gave him the absolute perfect role for his skillset, and bottle-fed him. Teams can't even play zone against him because of the running back he has and the read zone. They handed him the best roster in the NFL, one of the best defenses in NFL history, and said, "here, don't mess this up, make some plays for us if you can, we'll win big, and you'll be the king of the world." And now, now this kid wants to hold them hostage. Dude can't even beat single-high man coverage consistently and wants to be the highest paid player in the history of the NFL. Burrito that guy.

BS. Tickle, The Seahawks are NOT the #1 Rushing team in the NFL WITHOUT RW's 900 Yards, and yes, Schneider and Carroll know it.
It's only this Year that the front office has realized their screw-up, ditched Percy Harvin, gone out, and found a legitimate Receiver like Jimmy Graham ,and not leave Wilsons ass out in the wind.
Handed him " the best roster in the NFL" (that just so happens to INCLUDE Russell Wilson)
# 22 of the top 100 (chosen by players in the NFL ,that have had to try and defend against RW), pretty much nullifies those around here who're saying that RW ain't all that.

 

[DavidSeven]

Russell does owe a lot to Pete, John and yes, the playcalling, which is built almost entirely around his strengths and weaknesses. The fact that most don't even recognize some severe limitations that Wilson has is a testament to that. Don't get me wrong -- dude is a baller of high measure. But this staff tapped into what makes him special and hid what makes him ordinary.

 

[netskier]

What does the slang "burrito" mean in this context? Where did you learn it?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He wants to hold them hostage?? Really? And you know this because of some media speculation? Um........ok

 

[ptisme]

The funny thing about these contracts for NFL players is how they are an inexact science. Baseball has Wins above Replacement (WAR), and it's a very simple calculation to figure out how many millions of dollars 1 WAR is worth.

Fuzzy math alert.

I love Byron Maxwell, but how many 'wins' is he worth on his own? Maybe half a win if we are being generous? How about KJ Wright, a quarter win perhaps? How Cliff Avril? Maybe half a win?

Add those players up, and you get a total AYP of $24.35 million, which buys you probably about 1.25 wins.

By contrast, Seattle was a 7 win team before Wilson, and has averaged 12 wins per year with him, a difference of 5 wins. You can't give Wilson ALL the credit for that difference, but it's probably safe to say that Wilson is a 4 win player.

So if you pay Wilson an AYP of $24 million, and he gives you more than triple the wins per dollar that Maxwell/Wright/Avril give you for the same money, then how is that a bad thing?

Granted, those are not the three biggest bargain contracts in the world. But they are a fairly good example of the kinds of 'deals' you get in open free agency when the time comes to turn dollars into wins. Remember how much Seattle paid for Rice and Miller?

Even though it's not an exact science, it doesn't need to be, because it's abundantly clear that even at 'big money', Wilson would still be one of the best 'bang for the buck' players in the NFL. Any talk about him being higher paid than X is really just silly, especially when QBs who might be worth 1 win at most are getting $18+ million these days.

This is an outstanding argument and it changed my mind. :th2thumbs:

 

[dumbrabbit]

The main reason people are starting to turn against Russell is the media. During the offseason, the media will take any kind of story and put a spin to it and people will panic.

Sucks, but that's life.

 

[ctrcat]

New Conor Orr article. RW asking for $30 mil per for 6 years? Ho. Ly. Sheet. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... or-russell

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Don't believe everything (or anything) you read.

 

[hawknation2015]

New Conor Orr article. RW asking for $30 mil per for 6 years? Ho. Ly. Sheet. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... or-russell

LOL.

 

[Sac]

Man, even if we could trade RW for 3 firsts and some change, the 2 firsts in the next couple years would be in the high twenties at best.

Can you imagine RW on the Browns or the Bills? They'd be immediate contenders.

Just pay the man.

25? 27?

I don't care. He's more important than any other player. This FO has proven it can develop pretty much anyone, at any position on defense. RW is irreplaceable.