Random Thoughts™ on the Giants game

[Zebulon Dak]

Bevell is not the reason we lost in Atlanta.

I really don't know how you can say that. Of course he's not the only reason, but his play calling was the biggest one. What, you're going to try and argue that the soft zone with under a minute remaining in the 4th quarter to let the Falcons get in field goal range is worse than failing on a bunch of offensive drives for most of the first half? Give me a break. You can't believe that.

No. And of course you can't believe that failing on a bunch of offensive drives for most of the first half is all Bevell's fault. You obviously, because you're intelligent, understand that execution is at least equally as important as the play calling itself and that the defense's job is to stop the offense from executing properly. You do understand that, right?

 

[RolandDeschain]

Sigh. Or course execution plays an important role, Zeb. However, no team in the history of the league has ever come close to sniffing perfect execution. You know what perfect execution actually is? Scoring a touchdown on the very first play of every single drive, all game long. It's a mirage; a fantasy. It'll never even come close to happening. Good execution is considered what, having only a couple penalties and scoring touchdowns on 50% of your drives?

Always blaming failed drives on poor execution is oversimplifying the problem. If you could actually have reliable execution of plays, you'd never see 3rd downs. Execution of plays is a problem every team in the league has on almost every single play, and it's a copout to just blame offensive woes on poor execution. Every single play in the playbook is designed to be wildly successful if executed perfectly, but that's not something that ever can or will happen.

I'm tired of people just blaming execution as a means to avoid culpability for bad sets of play calls. I've never said, and I don't think, that Bevell is the only problem. Of course we screw up execution of plays regularly. Name an offense that doesn't. The whole point is to find plays that work against your opponent. Bevell did do that after a while in the two playoff games last year, but not quickly enough in the second one. You can't be predictable in this league, and he has a habit of being predictable for too long. Not in every game, but certainly in too many on a regular basis.

Most people hoped we could simply maintain our defense this year after Bradley went to Jacksonville after last season. Some, myself included, thought we'd improve almost regardless of who we hired. Yeah, we signed some pass rushers and they're doing a great job, and that helps regardless; but look at how many end-of-the-4th-quarter defensive collapses lost us games last year, primarily due to soft zone coverage and compare it to this year. There is a marked contrast.

Similarly, I believe if we replace Bevell with someone else this off-season, it'll almost certainly be an upgrade. Bookmark this post, or screenshot it, or whatever. If I'm wrong, I will admit it.

I'd also like to clarify that I don't think Bevell sucks. I just don't think he's very good, and that we can do better.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Who?

Play calling, execution, and defense. The fact that people continue to ignore the fact that on every single play there's a defense out there trying to stop us from moving the ball makes it hard to take the Bevell qualms too seriously. Bevell's not perfect, the execution will never be perfect, and there will always be a defense on the other side of the ball trying to stop us from succeeding.

But we're 12-2 with the inside track on HFA, we have the 5th highest point total in the league and the best point differential. Is there a point where you accept the fact that we're elite if not perfect? Or do you think Mariucci or Holmgren are going to come in as OC next year and make us invincible?

 

[RolandDeschain]

It seems like you're just making up an opinion on me. We are elite. I don't think otherwise. Here, let me put it into a grossly simplified car analogy.

We're a brand-new Porsche 911 Turbo. Our six-cylinder engine has a cylinder in it that doesn't pump of its own accord until we've driven halfway to our destination a third of the time, and it gets carried by the other five cylinders pretty effectively for the most part when that happens.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Again, who?

I know you said you liked Jeremy Bates, and you're not alone (Pehawk of all people has expressed the same sentiment). But there was obviously something Coach Pete didn't like about him. So who? (not to mention why?) I'm not saying there's nobody better than Bevell, but who do we bring in that gets us to 14-0 or 13-1? Or helps us win by a larger margin, if that's what you desire. Maybe there's a guy, I'm not saying there's not, but this whole blind, blanket "Bevell's not good enough" statement is nothing without an alternative.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I don't know who. I don't study coordinators and potential coordinators. I just think that from everything I've seen from Pete Carroll over the last 3.5 years, whoever he finds would be an improvement.

I had the same line of thinking about Bradley. That turned out well. Of course that doesn't mean it will should we replace Bevell, but that's why I am saying I THINK it will, not I KNOW it will.

 

[kearly]

Not worried about Lynch. He has struggled a bit since the O-line starters returned, and that unit has not looked sharp. Besides, he was doing great catching the ball.

Did you all watch his touchdown? Vintage Lynch

Lynch definitely looked like himself at certain moments, but I disagree with your other assertion: the run blocking has not been bad. The backups were better at run blocking, that was the one thing they did well, but the starters are getting decent push, and Lynch has struggled some with arm tackles in recent weeks. In the SF game he missed several obvious reads and could be seen getting a lecture from Tom Cable.

You know what you aren't seeing? Tons of TFLs. Another thing we aren't seeing much of lately is rushes over 10 yards. Three yards and a cloud of dust would sum up our run game the past month. That tells me that the baseline run blocking is okay, but we aren't getting very far past the first level for some reason.

I am not saying this is definitely Lynch's fault. I do not know if Lynch is tired, or if it's just small sample size noise. But it is an obvious problem. It could just be that defenses are scheming our run game a little differently the last month or so, as I'm sure someone suggested to you by PM.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

I don't know who. I don't study coordinators and potential coordinators. I just think that from everything I've seen from Pete Carroll over the last 3.5 years, whoever he finds would be an improvement.

I had the same line of thinking about Bradley. That turned out well. Of course that doesn't mean it will should we replace Bevell, but that's why I am saying I THINK it will, not I KNOW it will.

I just have to believe that Bevell is here because either A) he's (at this point) the best man for the job or B) he buys in to the philosophy and is willing to call the game the way Coach Pete wants him to. And I think he's done a much better job than you and some others give him credit for. And if B)'s the case then it's on Coach Pete and/or John Schneider, isn't it?

I'm a Hawks fan, I love our personnel unconditionally, but I'm always game for an upgrade at any and every position, including coaches. I just think Bevell's an easy scape goat for when things don't go perfect on O, even though it's usually pretty easy to spot problems on the line, or when RB's & WR's aren't properly executing their assignments IMO.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Who?

Play calling, execution, and defense. The fact that people continue to ignore the fact that on every single play there's a defense out there trying to stop us from moving the ball makes it hard to take the Bevell qualms too seriously. Bevell's not perfect, the execution will never be perfect, and there will always be a defense on the other side of the ball trying to stop us from succeeding.

But we're 12-2 with the inside track on HFA, we have the 5th highest point total in the league and the best point differential. Is there a point where you accept the fact that we're elite if not perfect? Or do you think Mariucci or Holmgren are going to come in as OC next year and make us invincible?

It's just being spoiled and wanting the perfect storm of all three phases playing to full potential. I understand the desire, but how can anyone be unhappy with the way we won this game? That was the kind of D that levels the field and paves the way for a championship.

If the offense begins to peak just as the post season starts, that is actually preferable to it happening right now, IMO. The only thing that makes me uneasy is how they're appearing to run increasingly vanilla plays on offense as we get closer to the post season. Hopely the playbook will open more once the playoffs start.

 

[RolandDeschain]

To use an analogy I used earlier tonight, Shanahan is still in D.C., but that doesn't mean he's wanted by the powers that be. Carroll could love Bevell and want him to stay forever, or be on the verge of firing him after this season, or anything in between. Just because he's still here is evidence of nothing.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Who?

Play calling, execution, and defense. The fact that people continue to ignore the fact that on every single play there's a defense out there trying to stop us from moving the ball makes it hard to take the Bevell qualms too seriously. Bevell's not perfect, the execution will never be perfect, and there will always be a defense on the other side of the ball trying to stop us from succeeding.

But we're 12-2 with the inside track on HFA, we have the 5th highest point total in the league and the best point differential. Is there a point where you accept the fact that we're elite if not perfect? Or do you think Mariucci or Holmgren are going to come in as OC next year and make us invincible?

It's just being spoiled and wanting the perfect storm of all three phases playing to full potential. I understand the desire, but how can anyone be unhappy with the way we won this game? That was the kind of D that levels the field and paves the way for a championship.

If the offense begins to peak just as the post season starts, that is actually preferable to it happening right now, IMO. The only thing that makes me uneasy is how they're appearing to run increasingly vanilla plays on offense as we get closer to the post season. Hopely the playbook will open more once the playoffs start.

I agree that we tend to go vanilla sometimes, but is that Bevell or Coach Carroll? I have a hard time believing that Pete just signs off completely and lets Bevell do whatever he wants. I have to believe there's some influence there from our head coach.

 

[RolandDeschain]

but how can anyone be unhappy with the way we won this game?

Uh, because we scored less than the league average for offensive points against an inferior opponent despite having the assistance of five turnovers?

 

[Zebulon Dak]

but how can anyone be unhappy with the way we won this game?

Uh, because we scored less than the league average for offensive points against an inferior opponent despite having the assistance of five turnovers?

Giants also, despite their record, have a pretty good defense and particularly a pretty good defensive line. Their LB's ain't no joke either FWIW.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Giants also, despite their record, have a pretty good defense and particularly a pretty good defensive line. Their LB's ain't no joke either FWIW.

Oh, I know. I agree. We've already faced a lot of good, and better, defenses this year, however. On a percentage scale, only the Rams game resulted in a worse percentage of drives that failed to get us points, and they're a better team PLUS we had what, two starters on the O-line that game? I forget if Unger was in or out, but both tackles were missing.

Realistically, this was our worst offensive performance of the year, IMO.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Giants also, despite their record, have a pretty good defense and particularly a pretty good defensive line. Their LB's ain't no joke either FWIW.

Oh, I know. I agree. We've already faced a lot of good, and better, defenses this year, however. On a percentage scale, only the Rams game resulted in a worse percentage of drives that failed to get us points, and they're a better team PLUS we had what, two starters on the O-line that game? I forget if Unger was in or out, but both tackles were missing.

Realistically, this was our worst offensive performance of the year, IMO.

It was up there for sure, and yet we put up a 23-0 shutout. Who's got it better than us???

 

[RolandDeschain]

It was up there for sure, and yet we put up a 23-0 shutout. Who's got it better than us???

Noooooooooooobody!

That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement without expecting perfection, however, is my only point.

 

[brettb3]

Meh. Lynch doesn't look any different at all to me. I don't agree that the run blocking has been good. The initial push has been fine, but the blocking in the second level has been poor the last few weeks. Lynch's explosion looked the same as it always does on his receptions.

 

[ivotuk]

Giants also, despite their record, have a pretty good defense and particularly a pretty good defensive line. Their LB's ain't no joke either FWIW.

Oh, I know. I agree. We've already faced a lot of good, and better, defenses this year, however. On a percentage scale, only the Rams game resulted in a worse percentage of drives that failed to get us points, and they're a better team PLUS we had what, two starters on the O-line that game? I forget if Unger was in or out, but both tackles were missing.

Realistically, this was our worst offensive performance of the year, IMO.

Giants have a damn good defense. They are ranked #10 and that is with Eli throwing INTs every day, no running game and no passing game. I can't fathom any defense being in the top 10 with anathema for an offense.

 

[hawkfan1975]

Always agree with so much with these. Man I like your posts Kearly!

Agree and wish Marshawn had/has his biggest year, but I'm also aware of the benefits of a RB like Lynch and it's that he physically punishes defenses with each run regardless of YPC. This helps open a lot of things up on O as the minutes tick away, RW and Lynch tandem is def showing it can work.

Not sure I agree 100% with the run blocking he's working with though, too many times their D is catching him in the backfield of the snap. I'd like to see that minimized.
Plus teams do gameplan for this very real Lynch threat (because when he breaks one, you gotta catch him and pay again).

 

[RolandDeschain]

I can't fathom any defense being in the top 10 with anathema for an offense.

Buffalo and Tampa Bay have the 5th and 6th-ranked defenses per DVOA right now. Giants have the 10th. Arizona's defense last year was way up there with a worse offense then than even the Giants have now.