Read OP before Voting! Should Pete be the Head Coach only?

[Fade]

Just a short overview on draft capital and UFAs on this defense. I will only factor in the first 4 rounds, as 5th-7th picks are largely spent on projects and special teamers.

SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter

2017
1st - Malik Mcdowell - (traded out of the 1st and selected him in the 2nd, massive whiff.)
3rd - Shaquill Griffin - (for a 3rd rounder, definitely a hit.)
3rd - Lano Hill - (Miss.)
3rd - Naz Jones - (Miss.)
4th - TT - (Miss.)

1/5 Batting .200


2018

3rd - Rasheem Green - (Was supposed to be a top 10 talent that came out a year too early. Miss.)

0/1 Batting .000

2019

1st - LJ Collier - (Traded out of the 1st and selected him in the 2nd, Miss.)
2nd - Marquise Blair - (Never is on the field, now injured. Miss.)
3rd - Cody Barton - (Looking like a career special teamer. Miss.)
4th - Ugo Imadi - (Doing a good job as a rotational player and spot starter. Hit.)

1/4 Batting .250

2020 (Waaay early here, but I'm going to evaluate with current info anyway for completest sake.)

1st - Jordyn Brooks (Disappointing so far, and underwhelmed against Kyler. Miss.)
2nd - Darrell Taylor (Traded up to get him, Z-E-R-O snaps. Miss.)

0/2 Batting .000
============
Total: 2/12 Batting .167
============

This right here is one of the main reasons why the Seahawks are bad on defense. 12 defensive players taken in rounds where you expect to get starters and they missed on 10 of them. Talk about flushing picks down the Toilet. But it gets better.

2021/2022 (Draft Capital already spent.)
1st, 1st, 3rd Jamal Adams (A hell of a price to pay for a Safety, and he will also command a top contract.)


DEFENSIVE STARTERS ACQUIRED IN FREE AGENCY & TRADE

2017

LB M.Wilhoite (Miss.)
S Bradley McDougald (Hit)

1/2 Batting .500

2018

DT Shamar Stephen (Hit, barely, more like meh.)
LB/Leo Barkivous Mingo (MIss.)
CB Dante Johnson (Miss.)

1/3 Batting .333

2019

DE Ziggy Ansah (Massive whiff.)
CB Jamar Taylor (Miss.)

Traded away Frank Clark, with no plan for a long term replacement. (Whiff.)
DE JD Clowney (Hit, Miss.) Letting him walk for 0 compensation is a massive fail in my book.
S Quandre Diggs (Hit.)

1/5 Batting .200

2020

LB/Leo Bruce Irvin (Miss.)
DE/Leo Benson Mayowa (Miss.)
CB Quinton Dunbar (Hit.)
S Jamal Adams (I'm going with hit, but so far it has been a miss.)

2/4 Batting .500

============
Total: 5/14 Batting .357
============

===================
Combined: 7/26 Batting .267 <-- Epic Failure
===================
(7/26 on guys they projected to be starters!) (If I factor in every UFA and draft pick on defense it gets much worse.)

Compounding bad drafting with bad UFA's and trades is a recipe for disaster.

But personnel acquisition isn't even the half of it.

You see, when you have an antiquated system, and a bad DC, you never have a chance to improve, instead it's a consistent, gradual decline. Exactly what has happened.

It reminds me of the Cable years on offense. They threw asset after asset at Tom Cable, and they just kept getting worse on the O-Line. Got rid of Cable, now suddenly their O-Line draft picks can play, they find nice bargains in Free Agency like Brandon Shell, and Mike Iupati.

Ken Norton is a huge factor in why the defense is so bad, along with Pete Carroll who has overseen this thing for YEARS.

Pete Carroll continuing to inexplicably stay loyal to Ken Norton is the worst move all. File it in the Tom Cable/Bevell category.

What needs to happen is this: Fire Ken Norton, bring in a DC that has full autonomy, preferably a guy who was a head coach, but got fired and is a career DC. Someone like a Vic Fangio if Denver fires him after this season. Surrender all draft and UFA power to JS. Strip Pete Carroll as VP of Football Operations and is a Head Coach only from now on, he is too old to be spinning all those plates.

 

[Welshers]

Just a short overview on draft capital and UFAs on this defense. I will only factor in the first 4 rounds, as 5th-7th picks are largely spent on projects and special teamers.

SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter

2017
1st - Malik Mcdowell - (traded out of the 1st and selected him in the 2nd, massive whiff.)
3rd - Shaquill Griffin - (for a 3rd rounder, definitely a hit.)
3rd - Lano Hill - (Miss.)
3rd - Naz Jones - (Miss.)
4th - TT - (Miss.)

1/5 Batting .200


2018

3rd - Rasheem Green - (Was supposed to be a top 10 talent that came out a year too early. Miss.)

0/1 Batting .000

2019

1st - LJ Collier - (Traded out of the 1st and selected him in the 2nd, Miss.)
2nd - Marquise Blair - (Never is on the field, now injured. Miss.)
3rd - Cody Barton - (Looking like a career special teamer. Miss.)
4th - Ugo Imadi - (Doing a good job as a rotational player and spot starter. Hit.)

1/4 Batting .250

2020 (Waaay early here, but I'm going to evaluate with current info anyway for completest sake.)

1st - Jordyn Brooks (Disappointing so far, and underwhelmed against Kyler. Miss.)
2nd - Darrell Taylor (Traded up to get him, Z-E-R-O snaps. Miss.)

0/2 Batting .000
============
Total: 2/12 Batting .167
============

This right here is one of the main reasons why the Seahawks are bad on defense. 12 defensive players taken in rounds where you expect to get starters and they missed on 10 of them. Talk about flushing picks down the Toilet. But it gets better.

2021/2022 (Draft Capital already spent.)
1st, 1st, 3rd Jamal Adams (A hell of a price to pay for a Safety, and he will also command a top contract.)


DEFENSIVE STARTERS ACQUIRED IN FREE AGENCY & TRADE

2017

LB M.Wilhoite (Miss.)
S Bradley McDougald (Hit)

1/2 Batting .500

2018

DT Shamar Stephen (Hit, barely, more like meh.)
LB/Leo Barkivous Mingo (MIss.)
CB Dante Johnson (Miss.)

1/3 Batting .333

2019

DE Ziggy Ansah (Massive whiff.)
CB Jamar Taylor (Miss.)

Traded away Frank Clark, with no plan for a long term replacement. (Whiff.)
DE JD Clowney (Hit, Miss.) Letting him walk for 0 compensation is a massive fail in my book.
S Quandre Diggs (Hit.)

1/5 Batting .200

2020

LB/Leo Bruce Irvin (Miss.)
DE/Leo Benson Mayowa (Miss.)
CB Quinton Dunbar (Hit.)
S Jamal Adams (I'm going with hit, but so far it has been a miss.)

2/4 Batting .500

============
Total: 5/14 Batting .357
============

===================
Combined: 7/26 Batting .267 <-- Epic Failure
===================
(7/26 on guys they projected to be starters!) (If I factor in every UFA and draft pick on defense it gets much worse.)

Compounding bad drafting with bad UFA's and trades is a recipe for disaster.

But personnel acquisition isn't even the half of it.

You see, when you have an antiquated system, and a bad DC, you never have a chance to improve, instead it's a consistent, gradual decline. Exactly what has happened.

It reminds me of the Cable years on offense. They threw asset after asset at Tom Cable, and they just kept getting worse on the O-Line. Got rid of Cable, now suddenly their O-Line draft picks can play, they find nice bargains in Free Agency like Brandon Shell, and Mike Iupati.

Ken Norton is a huge factor in why the defense is so bad, along with Pete Carroll who has overseen this thing for YEARS.

Pete Carroll continuing to inexplicably stay loyal to Ken Norton is the worst move all. File it in the Tom Cable/Bevell category.

What needs to happen is this: Fire Ken Norton, bring in a DC that has full autonomy, preferably a guy who was a head coach, but got fired and is a career DC. Someone like a Vic Fangio if Denver fires him after this season. Surrender all draft and UFA power to JS. Strip Pete Carroll as VP of Football Operations and is a Head Coach only from now on, he is too old to be spinning all those plates.

Very biased wording to your poll LOL. But to play devil's advocate, I think Pete should be able to more or less do what he wants. We have enjoyed a winning run that very few other teams in the league can say they have had in the past decade years. Has any fan base other than New England had it better the past 10 years? I think not. We get playoff football ever year and are always competitive for the division. I don't want that to change. Thanks Pete! Don't forget how good we got it man

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

If you take VP from Pete I can almost guarantee he'll walk/Retire that just be only the HC.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Why aren’t you a GM...

What is the draft hit rate for all the coaches & GM’s that have been in the league since Pete and John took over. As I see it they have drafted quite a few future HOF players, with four of them playing on this team.

 

[LymonHawk]

Fade: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Fade should be the HC and GM and quit on the team in the last part of the year.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The premise of this retrospective seems flawed, because your SOP for what to expect from a first rounder is flawed. Other rounds are flawed, too... but especially your first round SOP.

For a more complete data set, we'll evaluate drafts from 2015 through 2019. Seattle (at least, their native pick) has been solidly in the back half of the first round in each draft being evaluated, so let's analyze picks 17 through 32 to see what your true likelihood of drafting a pro bowler is from those slots, based on the players that were actually selected in said slots.

From 2015 through 2019, there have been 79 selections made in the back half (Picks 17 through 32) of round 1. One of those selections was vacated by Belicheat for deflating balls.

Out of those 79 selections, 11 have gone to a Pro Bowl. I was even generous and added on Landon Collins, who went pick #33. Using your Pro Bowl qualifier for hitting on a first rounder (in back half of first, where Seattle picks), that gives us a league wide hit rate of.... 13.92%. For a positional breakdown of the aforementioned pro bowlers, plus Collins:

3 CB (B. Jones, T. White, M. Peters)
3 S (K. Neal, D. James, L. Collins*)
1 C (Ryan Kelly)
1 DT (Kenny Clark)
1 LB (LVE)
1 Edge rusher (Watt)
1 QB (Jackson)

Now, let's look at how many of these players were available at Seattle's native pick, meaning no trade up required, again, including Collins, not including Jackson because quarterback would be idiotic position for Seattle to pick early:

2015 - Collins (pick traded away for Graham)
2016 - Kenny Clark
2017 - T. White, Watt
2018 - LVE
2019 - None. No Pro Bowlers yet from 17 until the literal end of the draft, except Mecole Hardman. This'll change, obviously... with DK Metcalf, the Seahawks pick at 64.

That's 6. So 6 out of the 10 (technically 9, but again... adding Landon Collins) non-QB Pro Bowlers in the back half of the first round were available to Seattle without a trade up. Over 5 drafts.

The criteria with which we're judging late first round picks is heinously lofty compared to the reality of what the average result is. Look at the post below for a way deeper dive into the reality of the late first round.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Now, to make sure I'm being very thorough regarding the first round, let's analyze every single pick made from 17-32 in the 2015 through 2018 drafts to see how many of these guys end up being good starters, even if they haven't made a Pro Bowl. We'll chalk the non-good starters up in a bust column. I'm not including 2019 or 2020 because it's simply too soon to tell, and it'd be way too much of a projection to assign a label to them just yet.



2015:

17. Arik Armstead. Very good.
18. Marcus Peters. Good, Pro Bowler.
19. Cameron Erving. Bust.
20. Nelson Agholor. Career negative DYAR per Football Outsiders. Replacement level. Bust.
21. Cedric Ogbuehi. Has been terrible, is now a Seahawks backup. Bust.
22. Bud Dupree. Hit.
23. Shane Ray. 1 alright year, currently unemployed. Bust.
24. DJ Humphries. We're gonna call him a hit. His play has been bad at times, but quite good at others, including currently.
25. Shaq Thompson. We'll call him a hit. Decent starter. His best ball is behind him, but I'll be generous.
26. Breshad Perriman. Bust.
27. Bryon Jones. Good, Pro Bowler.
28. Laken Tomlinson. Bust.
29. Phillip Dorsett. Bust, on Seahawks.
30. Damarious Randall. Bust, on Seahawks.
31. Stephone Anthony. Bust. Unemployed.
32. Malcom Brown. We'll call him a hit. Decent starter.

Out of these 16, 9 were busts. Bust rate of 56.25%.


2016:

17. Keanu Neal. Hit. Probowl.
18. Ryan Kelly. Hit. Probowl.
19. Shaq Lawson. Average. Not a full bust, but not a good starter, so bust column.
20. Darron Lee. Holy bust.
21. Will Fuller. I'll very generously include him, considering he's been injured for nearly half his games. Career +DYAR.
22. Josh Doctson. B-b-b-BUST.
23. Laquon Treadwell. Bust city.
24. William Jackson. Hit.
25. Artie Burns. Bust.
26. Paxton Lynch. Bust.
27. Kenny Clark. Probowl.
28. Joshua Garnett. Bust.
29. Voided due to Belicheat's flat balls.
30. Vernon Butler. Replacement level. Not including as a good starter. Bust.
31. Germain Ifedi. We were definitely too hard on him, but we'll chalk him in the bust column. Bust.
32. Emmanuel Ogbah. We'll chalk him as a hit. Not a franchise rusher, but a decent enough starter.

Out of these 15, 8 are replacement level or complete busts. 53.33% bust rate.


2017:

17. Jonathan Allen. Good starter. Hit.
18. Adoree Jackson. Sure, hit.
19. OJ Howard. I mean... he's plus DYAR, but injured a lot. We'll err on the side of hit.
20. Garrett Bolles. He gets a lot of hate, but I'm considering him a hit, even disregarding his improved 2020 play. But he's had a good few hiccups.
21. Jarrad Davis. He's playing better this year, but has been bad for every other year. Bust.
22. Charles Harris. Bust.
23. Evan Engram. He gets volume, but +8 DYAR for career? Nah, bust column. Not a "good" starter, just a starter.
24. Gareon Conley. Average. Bust column, not a good starter.
25. Jabrill Peppers. Let's call him a hit. Rough rookie season, good since.
26. Takk McKinley. He's right on the line. I'm gonna err bust. Fifth year decline, sacks numbers tailed off after 2 alright starting years in the league.
27. Tre'Davious White. Probowl.
28. Taco Charlton. Bust.
29. David Njoku. Bust. Injuries have hurt him, and he was no better than Engram to begin with.
30. TJ Watt. Hit. Probowl.
31. Reuben Foster. Obviously good, but bust due to off-field career sabotage and then injury. Bust.
32. Ryan Ramczyk. Hit.

Out of these 16, 8 are replacement level or complete busts. 50% bust rate. Not as many outright busts this year.


2018:

17. Derwin James. Probowl.
18. Jaire Alexander. Hit.
19. Leighton Vander Esch. Probowl.
20. Frank Ragnow. Hit.
21. Billy Price. Bust.
22. Rashaan Evans. Replacement level bust.
23. Isaiah Wynn. Injured for most games. Bust.
24. DJ Moore. Hit.
25. Hayden Hurst. Bust.. but playing a bit better this year. Still not "good" starter.
26. Calvin Ridley. Hit.
27. Rashaad Penny. Talented, but bust.
28. Terrell Edmunds. Replacement level. Bust.
29. Taven Bryan. Bust.
30. Mike Hughes. On the bust side.
31. Sony Michel. We'll call him a hit.
32. Lamar Jackson. Probowl.

Out of these 16, 8 are replacement level or busts so far in their short careers. 50% bust rate.



Now, lets dig into this. We can see that the bust rate hovers around 50% at the backend of the first, fairly consistently, too.

So, let's start by editing the demonstrably inflated criteria for back-of-first-round success to just landing a good starter instead of a Pro Bowler. In these 4 drafts, the most recent drafts within which we can somewhat-comfortably assign a value/label to a player, 63 players were picked in the back end of the first round. 30 players were good enough to be assigned the label of being an above average starter.

That's a 47.6% chance of landing a good starter in the back of the first round. Less than a coin flips chance. With the pie-in-the-sky "SOP" of expecting a Pro Bowler from a first round pick, ignoring the context of these picks being LATE first rounders, you, the FANS are setting yourselves up for disappointment by misinforming yourself about the caliber of talent that's generally available. Stars do not grow on trees. The chances of getting a Pro Bowler, even with Seattle's HIGHEST pick, are very slim. Even expecting a GOOD starter from these late first rounders is slightly less than even odds.

I'll do a less exhaustive review of what can be reasonably expected, using the same drafts from 2015-2018, from the later rounds at another time. But, really, it's already crystal clear that we need to drastically bring our expectations from the draft out of fairytale land and back down to earth. This isn't Madden, and 2010/2012 weren't sustainable levels of success. So, please, let's temper our expectations and perspective based on the actual reality of what these picks end up being.

PS... yeah. I voted for the second option.

 

[rcaido]

Not bias at all LOL....

I get if the team was losing and we have no impact players....The thing is we are winning with the picks we got.

Those misses is way too early to determine. Really Blair is consider a miss? Collier has only played 6 games and already say he is a bust?

You should start 2015 -2017

That's enough sample size if they are bust or not.

2015 Draft
Frank Clark 2nd round
Batting 1/1 100%

2016 Draft
Jaren Reed 2nd round
Batting 1/1 100%

2017 Draft
Mcdowell 2nd round (never played, who knows if he was good or not) does not count
Shaq Griffin 3rd round (hit)
Delano Hill 3rd round (miss)
Nazir Jones 3rd round (miss)
Tedric Thompson 4th round (miss)
Batting 1/4 Batting .250

Overall 3/6 batting .500

 

[Maelstrom787]

Glad to see this poll result is back to a more reasonable number after the rollback

 

[Zap90]

After 2014 the Seahawks never got past nfc championships that’s 6 years. Pete is not the problem the entire coaching staff along with the GM Schneider is the problem. We keep losing assets and go small on FA. The Seattle Seahawks are trying to get cheap and become cheap. The players ain’t dumb you won’t find Bennett or Avril again. People want the $$$

 

[Zap90]

Not bias at all LOL....

I get if the team was losing and we have no impact players....The thing is we are winning with the picks we got.

Those misses is way too early to determine. Really Blair is consider a miss? Collier has only played 6 games and already say he is a bust?

You should start 2015 -2017

That's enough sample size if they are bust or not.

2015 Draft
Frank Clark 2nd round
Batting 1/1 100%

2016 Draft
Jaren Reed 2nd round
Batting 1/1 100%

2017 Draft
Mcdowell 2nd round (never played, who knows if he was good or not) does not count
Shaq Griffin 3rd round (hit)
Delano Hill 3rd round (miss)
naz** Jones 3rd round (miss)
Tedric Thompson 4th round (miss)
Batting 1/4 Batting .250

Overall 3/6 batting .500

You picked only 1 good player out of how many players we drafted that year

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not bias at all LOL....

I get if the team was losing and we have no impact players....The thing is we are winning with the picks we got.

Those misses is way too early to determine. Really Blair is consider a miss? Collier has only played 6 games and already say he is a bust?

You should start 2015 -2017

That's enough sample size if they are bust or not.

2015 Draft
Frank Clark 2nd round
Batting 1/1 100%

2016 Draft
Jaren Reed 2nd round
Batting 1/1 100%

2017 Draft
Mcdowell 2nd round (never played, who knows if he was good or not) does not count
Shaq Griffin 3rd round (hit)
Delano Hill 3rd round (miss)
naz** Jones 3rd round (miss)
Tedric Thompson 4th round (miss)
Batting 1/4 Batting .250

Overall 3/6 batting .500

You picked only 1 good player out of how many players we drafted that year

This entire topic is referencing defensive players drafted in the first four rounds. They're all included in the post you quoted.

 

[LTH]

Just a short overview on draft capital and UFAs on this defense. I will only factor in the first 4 rounds, as 5th-7th picks are largely spent on projects and special teamers.

SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter

2017
1st - Malik Mcdowell - (traded out of the 1st and selected him in the 2nd, massive whiff.)
3rd - Shaquill Griffin - (for a 3rd rounder, definitely a hit.)
3rd - Lano Hill - (Miss.)
3rd - Naz Jones - (Miss.)
4th - TT - (Miss.)

1/5 Batting .200


2018

3rd - Rasheem Green - (Was supposed to be a top 10 talent that came out a year too early. Miss.)

0/1 Batting .000

2019

1st - LJ Collier - (Traded out of the 1st and selected him in the 2nd, Miss.)
2nd - Marquise Blair - (Never is on the field, now injured. Miss.)
3rd - Cody Barton - (Looking like a career special teamer. Miss.)
4th - Ugo Imadi - (Doing a good job as a rotational player and spot starter. Hit.)

1/4 Batting .250

2020 (Waaay early here, but I'm going to evaluate with current info anyway for completest sake.)

1st - Jordyn Brooks (Disappointing so far, and underwhelmed against Kyler. Miss.)
2nd - Darrell Taylor (Traded up to get him, Z-E-R-O snaps. Miss.)

0/2 Batting .000
============
Total: 2/12 Batting .167
============

This right here is one of the main reasons why the Seahawks are bad on defense. 12 defensive players taken in rounds where you expect to get starters and they missed on 10 of them. Talk about flushing picks down the Toilet. But it gets better.

2021/2022 (Draft Capital already spent.)
1st, 1st, 3rd Jamal Adams (A hell of a price to pay for a Safety, and he will also command a top contract.)


DEFENSIVE STARTERS ACQUIRED IN FREE AGENCY & TRADE

2017

LB M.Wilhoite (Miss.)
S Bradley McDougald (Hit)

1/2 Batting .500

2018

DT Shamar Stephen (Hit, barely, more like meh.)
LB/Leo Barkivous Mingo (MIss.)
CB Dante Johnson (Miss.)

1/3 Batting .333

2019

DE Ziggy Ansah (Massive whiff.)
CB Jamar Taylor (Miss.)

Traded away Frank Clark, with no plan for a long term replacement. (Whiff.)
DE JD Clowney (Hit, Miss.) Letting him walk for 0 compensation is a massive fail in my book.
S Quandre Diggs (Hit.)

1/5 Batting .200

2020

LB/Leo Bruce Irvin (Miss.)
DE/Leo Benson Mayowa (Miss.)
CB Quinton Dunbar (Hit.)
S Jamal Adams (I'm going with hit, but so far it has been a miss.)

2/4 Batting .500

============
Total: 5/14 Batting .357
============

===================
Combined: 7/26 Batting .267 <-- Epic Failure
===================
(7/26 on guys they projected to be starters!) (If I factor in every UFA and draft pick on defense it gets much worse.)

Compounding bad drafting with bad UFA's and trades is a recipe for disaster.

But personnel acquisition isn't even the half of it.

You see, when you have an antiquated system, and a bad DC, you never have a chance to improve, instead it's a consistent, gradual decline. Exactly what has happened.

It reminds me of the Cable years on offense. They threw asset after asset at Tom Cable, and they just kept getting worse on the O-Line. Got rid of Cable, now suddenly their O-Line draft picks can play, they find nice bargains in Free Agency like Brandon Shell, and Mike Iupati.

Ken Norton is a huge factor in why the defense is so bad, along with Pete Carroll who has overseen this thing for YEARS.

Pete Carroll continuing to inexplicably stay loyal to Ken Norton is the worst move all. File it in the Tom Cable/Bevell category.

What needs to happen is this: Fire Ken Norton, bring in a DC that has full autonomy, preferably a guy who was a head coach, but got fired and is a career DC. Someone like a Vic Fangio if Denver fires him after this season. Surrender all draft and UFA power to JS. Strip Pete Carroll as VP of Football Operations and is a Head Coach only from now on, he is too old to be spinning all those plates.

But yet the Seahawks under Carroll have gone to the playoffs every year except two... Your just really negative...


LTH

 

[Tusc2000]

Hate to tell ya this, but the Seahawks are not a democracy. The only vote that counts is the owners. And they have no problem with Pete, nor should they. He wins a lot more than he loses.

This nonsense always happens after a loss, doesn't matter that it came on a last second FG in OT. Sheesh, some of you pepole....

 

[samwize77]

I don't know about anyone else here.....but I absolutely HATE our record since PC/JS came onboard!! Hate it!! I hate all the wins...the division titles...the Super Bowl win.....these guys have NO IDEA how to run a football team!! I have tried and tried to hold my thoughts on this but its time for a change. Why can't we be more like The Washington Football Team?...….Why???? Trust me on this guys...I know better than PC/JS do about football and how to run an NFL team. I mean really. We are 5-1...this sucks. I know, I know...everyone has their opinion......I get that.....but how obvious does it have to be before we feel its time for a change? :irishdrinkers:

 

[Maelstrom787]

What bothers me the most is the heavily skewed expectations for our picks. That SOP is either just super, super wrong or blatantly dishonest, neither are a good look

 

[sc85sis]

Pete already coached for two teams where he had no say in personnel. It didn't go well. He would likely leave before letting that happen again.

The fact is that he is far LESS involved in personnel than he was the first few years. He knew lots of guys then because he'd recruited and/or coached against them as head coach at USC. That hasn't been true since about 2013 or 2014. He has to rely on John and the scouts to do their jobs.

 

[Fade]

Teams are trying to draft star players with their 1st selection. Arguing otherwise is just disingenuous.

They thought Malik was going to be a mega star that's why they took the risk.

They thought LJ Collier was the next Michael Bennett. Swing and a miss.

They thought Jordyn Brooks was in the mold of a Bobby Wagner, he doesn't even look close to that right now.


2nd round they are trying to get a really good starter. 3rd round they want a prospect that projects to be a starter.

4th round they're looking at rotational players, fingers crossed can be starters, or at the very least a solid backup.
5-7 special teamers, or take gambles on guys who have off the field or medical flags.

If I was wrong and the apologists were right. The defense would've been a whole lot better over the last 3 years, if they were drafting just fine on defense.

=====

A lot of people are confusing their adulation for Pete, when it's Wilson. Wilson has been making this thing work, without him they are an absolute dumpster fire.

Drew Brees in his prime went 7-9 with the worst defense. Wilson is going to go 11-5 maybe even 12-4.

It's been YEARS of getting worse on defense. They literally have not improved a single year on defense for 7 straight years. Last year they were 27th on defense, so this was supposed to be the year they improved. It was a very low bar to clear. NOPE! Lets get waaay worse with 60M+ to spend in the off-season, and burn three 1st rounders and a 2nd on defensive players, and become historically worse.

There is no defending this. I have been very patient over the last 4 years waiting for Pete to rebuild the defense post LOB, as these things do take time. With a humble expectation of getting to middle of the pack, and at the very least improve. My patience has now ran out.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Teams are trying to draft star players with their 1st selection. Arguing otherwise is just disingenuous.

They thought Malik was going to be a mega star that's why they took the risk.

They thought LJ Collier was the next Michael Bennett. Swing and a miss.

They thought Jordyn Brooks was in the mold of a Bobby Wagner, he doesn't even look close to that right now.


2nd round they are trying to get a really good starter. 3rd round they want a prospect that projects to be a starter.

4th round they're looking at rotational players, fingers crossed can be starters, or at the very least a solid backup.
5-7 special teamers, or take gambles on guys who have off the field or medical flags.

If I was wrong and the apologists were right. The defense would've been a whole lot better over the last 3 years, if they were drafting just fine on defense.

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A lot of people are confusing their adulation for Pete, when it's Wilson. Wilson has been making this thing work, without him they are an absolute dumpster fire.

Drew Brees in his prime went 7-9 with the worst defense. Wilson is going to go 11-5 maybe even 12-4.

It's been YEARS of getting worse on defense. They literally have not improved a single year on defense for 7 straight years. Last year they were 27th on defense, so this was supposed to be the year they improved. It was a very low bar to clear. NOPE! Lets get waaay worse with 60M+ to spend in the off-season, and burn three 1st rounders and a 2nd on defensive players, and become historically worse.

There is no defending this. I have been very patient over the last 4 years waiting for Pete to rebuild the defense post LOB, as these things do take time. With a humble expectation of getting to middle of the pack, and at the very least improve. My patience has now ran out.

There's a difference between what teams try to do and what the actual result ends up being, and the end result is very, very rarely getting a Pro Bowl. You're confusing hope for reasonable expectation.

And, before the strawman gets deployed, let me make it clear that this is NOT me saying that the defense is good, or that they've drafted well. Just that your SOP (key word in standard operation procedure being STANDARD) is far out-of-whack with the reality of the draft.