Read OP before Voting! Should Pete be the Head Coach only?

[Fade]

Pete already coached for two teams where he had no say in personnel. It didn't go well. He would likely leave before letting that happen again.

The fact is that he is far LESS involved in personnel than he was the first few years. He knew lots of guys then because he'd recruited and/or coached against them as head coach at USC. That hasn't been true since about 2013 or 2014. He has to rely on John and the scouts to do their jobs.

What Pete wants Pete gets. If Pete wants a RB in the 1st round, he is going to get it. If he wants Jamal Adams, he is going to get it. If John wants to take another player in the 1st, too bad for him. Pete wants a linebacker so that's who they take. If he wants… you get my point.

Deeper into the draft is when Pete acquiesces, the early picks Pete Carroll is heavily involved, and it's been a disaster.

If Pete resigned that's on him. Holmgren accepted a reduced role and the team thrived, so he should too.

Besides, if Pete balked and quit, he isn't a team player and it would be best for the org to move on anyway. (I don't want that, though.) Coaches would be banging down the door to coach Russell Wilson and the Seahawks, so it would be his loss.

 

[Fade]

Fade: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not half as funny as Pete's joke of a defense. :shock:

 

[Fade]

Teams are trying to draft star players with their 1st selection. Arguing otherwise is just disingenuous.

They thought Malik was going to be a mega star that's why they took the risk.

They thought LJ Collier was the next Michael Bennett. Swing and a miss.

They thought Jordyn Brooks was in the mold of a Bobby Wagner, he doesn't even look close to that right now.


2nd round they are trying to get a really good starter. 3rd round they want a prospect that projects to be a starter.

4th round they're looking at rotational players, fingers crossed can be starters, or at the very least a solid backup.
5-7 special teamers, or take gambles on guys who have off the field or medical flags.

If I was wrong and the apologists were right. The defense would've been a whole lot better over the last 3 years, if they were drafting just fine on defense.

=====

A lot of people are confusing their adulation for Pete, when it's Wilson. Wilson has been making this thing work, without him they are an absolute dumpster fire.

Drew Brees in his prime went 7-9 with the worst defense. Wilson is going to go 11-5 maybe even 12-4.

It's been YEARS of getting worse on defense. They literally have not improved a single year on defense for 7 straight years. Last year they were 27th on defense, so this was supposed to be the year they improved. It was a very low bar to clear. NOPE! Lets get waaay worse with 60M+ to spend in the off-season, and burn three 1st rounders and a 2nd on defensive players, and become historically worse.

There is no defending this. I have been very patient over the last 4 years waiting for Pete to rebuild the defense post LOB, as these things do take time. With a humble expectation of getting to middle of the pack, and at the very least improve. My patience has now ran out.

There's a difference between what teams try to do and what the actual result ends up being, and the end result is very, very rarely getting a Pro Bowl. You're confusing hope for reasonable expectation.

And, before the strawman gets deployed, let me make it clear that this is NOT me saying that the defense is good, or that they've drafted well. Just that your SOP (key word in standard operation procedure being STANDARD) is far out-of-whack with the reality of the draft.

Why do you think 1st round picks are so valuable? Teams hold on to them for dear life. Except Pete.

S.O.P. of what they are looking to accomplish and general thinking of each round.

 

[rcaido]

Our defense hasn't even got a chance to all play together yet...Plus no pre-season. Everyone's defense is lousy this year.

During the beginning of the Pete Carrol era, our defense was elite, the middle era we were above average, and last year was when we started our decline to below average...Could it be we actually are in rebuild mode on our defense? Do you think we can miraculously recover from losing HOF/elite defenders just like that? Kam, Bennett, Avril, Thomas, Sherman...That was just 2 full seasons ago.

 

[LTH]

Fade: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not half as funny as Pete's joke of a defense. :shock:

Maybe you should buy the Seahawks and become the almighty GM and coach... Its really easy to sit in your position and flap your lips after the fact... :stirthepot: :rumble:


LTH

 

[Maelstrom787]

Teams are trying to draft star players with their 1st selection. Arguing otherwise is just disingenuous.

They thought Malik was going to be a mega star that's why they took the risk.

They thought LJ Collier was the next Michael Bennett. Swing and a miss.

They thought Jordyn Brooks was in the mold of a Bobby Wagner, he doesn't even look close to that right now.


2nd round they are trying to get a really good starter. 3rd round they want a prospect that projects to be a starter.

4th round they're looking at rotational players, fingers crossed can be starters, or at the very least a solid backup.
5-7 special teamers, or take gambles on guys who have off the field or medical flags.

If I was wrong and the apologists were right. The defense would've been a whole lot better over the last 3 years, if they were drafting just fine on defense.

=====

A lot of people are confusing their adulation for Pete, when it's Wilson. Wilson has been making this thing work, without him they are an absolute dumpster fire.

Drew Brees in his prime went 7-9 with the worst defense. Wilson is going to go 11-5 maybe even 12-4.

It's been YEARS of getting worse on defense. They literally have not improved a single year on defense for 7 straight years. Last year they were 27th on defense, so this was supposed to be the year they improved. It was a very low bar to clear. NOPE! Lets get waaay worse with 60M+ to spend in the off-season, and burn three 1st rounders and a 2nd on defensive players, and become historically worse.

There is no defending this. I have been very patient over the last 4 years waiting for Pete to rebuild the defense post LOB, as these things do take time. With a humble expectation of getting to middle of the pack, and at the very least improve. My patience has now ran out.

There's a difference between what teams try to do and what the actual result ends up being, and the end result is very, very rarely getting a Pro Bowl. You're confusing hope for reasonable expectation.

And, before the strawman gets deployed, let me make it clear that this is NOT me saying that the defense is good, or that they've drafted well. Just that your SOP (key word in standard operation procedure being STANDARD) is far out-of-whack with the reality of the draft.

Why do you think 1st round picks are so valuable? Teams hold on to them for dear life. Except Pete.

S.O.P. of what they are looking to accomplish and general thinking of each round.

Late firsts are overvalued by fans especially, that's for sure.

You can swing for the fences all day long in the late first. Still not gonna hit home runs with any consistency.

 

[Fade]

Maybe you should buy the Seahawks and become the almighty GM and coach... Its really easy to sit in your position and flap your lips after the fact... :stirthepot: :rumble:


LTH

Try to stay on topic, and spare me with the personal insults.

This thread is about the Seahawks defense, and if the Head Coach has too much on his plate or not, which could be leading to these disastrous results on defense that has been percolating for YEARS.

 

[Fade]

Late firsts are overvalued by fans especially, that's for sure.

You can swing for the fences all day long in the late first. Still not gonna hit home runs with any consistency.

That is true. The 2nd round really begins around pick 20-25 depending on the year. But at the very least you should be coming away with very good starters, they're not even coming close, whiff after whiff.

With that being said if John & Pete drafted Jordyn Brooks under the pre-tense that he would be merely avg to above avg, Fire them both. They thought they were getting a stud. He may still be as it's early, but it isn't look good based off of history, and what I've seen so far.

Why do teams value 1st round picks so much?

 

[LTH]

Maybe you should buy the Seahawks and become the almighty GM and coach... Its really easy to sit in your position and flap your lips after the fact... :stirthepot: :rumble:


LTH

Try to stay on topic, and spare me with the personal insults.

This thread is about the Seahawks defense, and if the Head Coach has too much on his plate or not, which could be leading to these disastrous results on defense that has been percolating for YEARS.

LMAO!!! Obviously you think you know more than PC ... so maybe you should apply for the job...

LTH

 

[Fade]

Maybe you should buy the Seahawks and become the almighty GM and coach... Its really easy to sit in your position and flap your lips after the fact... :stirthepot: :rumble:


LTH

Try to stay on topic, and spare me with the personal insults.

This thread is about the Seahawks defense, and if the Head Coach has too much on his plate or not, which could be leading to these disastrous results on defense that has been percolating for YEARS.

LMAO!!! Obviously you think you know more than PC ... so maybe you should apply for the job...

LTH

Pete's defense is terrible, and has been getting worse for YEARS. Maybe doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result isn't the way to go? MIght be time to change things up and give him a more focused role.

 

[LTH]

Maybe you should buy the Seahawks and become the almighty GM and coach... Its really easy to sit in your position and flap your lips after the fact... :stirthepot: :rumble:


LTH

Try to stay on topic, and spare me with the personal insults.

This thread is about the Seahawks defense, and if the Head Coach has too much on his plate or not, which could be leading to these disastrous results on defense that has been percolating for YEARS.

LMAO!!! Obviously you think you know more than PC ... so maybe you should apply for the job...

LTH

Pete's defense is terrible, and has been getting worse for YEARS. Maybe doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result isn't the way to go? MIght be time to change things up and give him a more focused role.

I might agree with you if there wasn't the level of consistency winning on Carrolls part... You know this to be true... your a smart guy and I understand your frustration with the D but they are going to turn it around...they might even lose to the niners this week but ya know what it doesn't matter they made the moves they needed to make and now we just have to see how it plays out... the cap is an art form its very difficult to stay competitive picking where the Seahawks pick every year only a handful of teams remain consistently winning picking at the bottom of the pile..

LTH

 

[Fade]

Try to stay on topic, and spare me with the personal insults.

This thread is about the Seahawks defense, and if the Head Coach has too much on his plate or not, which could be leading to these disastrous results on defense that has been percolating for YEARS.

LMAO!!! Obviously you think you know more than PC ... so maybe you should apply for the job...

LTH

Pete's defense is terrible, and has been getting worse for YEARS. Maybe doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result isn't the way to go? MIght be time to change things up and give him a more focused role.

I might agree with you if there wasn't the level of consistency winning on Carrolls part... You know this to be true... your a smart guy and I understand your frustration with the D but they are going to turn it around...they might even lose to the niners this week but ya know what it doesn't matter they made the moves they needed to make and now we just have to see how it plays out... the cap is an art form its very difficult to stay competitive picking where the Seahawks pick every year only a handful of teams remain consistently winning picking at the bottom of the pile..

LTH

The winning is Russell Wilson. Franchise QBs win regular season games. If you can build a decent team around them they can win 12-13 games a year. Build a great team around them they can win 14-15 games. Pete wins 10.

What is Pete offering right now as a defensive mind, and selector of personnel for his defense? They are historically bad, it isn't working.

A reduced role given the last 4 years, and his age is more than logical at this point.

HIre a great DC, get out of John's way, and have him focus on being just a Head Coach.

 

[oldhawkfan]

"SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter"...FADE

If only it were that easy! In any given year, roughly half of ALL 1st rounders end up as busts, bounce from team to team, or are out of the league in 2 years. To expect a 1st round pick to be a Pro bowler sets one up for major disappointment. The draft at its core is nothing but a crap shoot. There are no guaranteed picks. The best teams can do is to make picks based on a players measurables and how well they think they might fit into their system. There have been many many players throughout the years who end up busts because they were drafted by the wrong team. There are also guys who got lucky because they were drafted by the right team.

Without the World Football league, the only Kurt Warner anyone outside of his family would know about is Curt Warner. Jon Kitna was able to parlay his career from another league into a 13 year NFL career.
Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiller...all QBs drafted in 2012 before Russell Wilson. I'm not gonna even bring up the 2000 draft and Tom Brady. The point is, drafting is done on potential not guarantees.

Aaron Curry, anyone? The only guaranteed can't miss prospect of the 2009 draft. As a side note, Curry is a Seahawks defensive assistant. Maybe his coaching success mirrors his playing success. :roll:

Pete and John work the draft like no others. They don't look at it as "oh, now its our turn, who is next on Mel Kipers list?" They use the draft as one tool to improve the team. Look at 2019, they entered the draft with 4 picks and exited with 11! They added competition to the team. Metcalf could very well be the gem of the class. Six of those guys are contributing this season. If it weren't for a couple of injuries by Haynes and Blair, this draft class would be looking way better.

During this past offseason, by my count, they have brought in roughly 13 guys who were not drafted by the Seahawks but are contributing or should be shortly. That is 25% of the active roster. I can't tell you how many gloom and doom posts I read during the offseason that stated that Pete and John were doing nothing. There isn't a magic tree somewhere that continuously spits out pro bowl players for those in need.

Player acquisition is an art for not a scientific endeavor. Not every piece of artwork is a masterpiece! Be patient, trust the process, enjoy the ride. At the end of the day, its just a game. A game that 31 other teams are also playing and working to acquire the best players for their teams!

 

[Fade]

"SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter"...FADE

If only it were that easy! In any given year, roughly half of ALL 1st rounders end up as busts, bounce from team to team, or are out of the league in 2 years. To expect a 1st round pick to be a Pro bowler sets one up for major disappointment. The draft at its core is nothing but a crap shoot. There are no guaranteed picks. The best teams can do is to make picks based on a players measurables and how well they think they might fit into their system. There have been many many players throughout the years who end up busts because they were drafted by the wrong team. There are also guys who got lucky because they were drafted by the right team.

Without the World Football league, the only Kurt Warner anyone outside of his family would know about is Curt Warner. Jon Kitna was able to parlay his career from another league into a 13 year NFL career.
Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiller...all QBs drafted in 2012 before Russell Wilson. I'm not gonna even bring up the 2000 draft and Tom Brady. The point is, drafting is done on potential not guarantees.

Aaron Curry, anyone? The only guaranteed can't miss prospect of the 2009 draft. As a side note, Curry is a Seahawks defensive assistant. Maybe his coaching success mirrors his playing success. :roll:

Pete and John work the draft like no others. They don't look at it as "oh, now its our turn, who is next on Mel Kipers list?" They use the draft as one tool to improve the team. Look at 2019, they entered the draft with 4 picks and exited with 11! They added competition to the team. Metcalf could very well be the gem of the class. Six of those guys are contributing this season. If it weren't for a couple of injuries by Haynes and Blair, this draft class would be looking way better.

During this past offseason, by my count, they have brought in roughly 13 guys who were not drafted by the Seahawks but are contributing or should be shortly. That is 25% of the active roster. I can't tell you how many gloom and doom posts I read during the offseason that stated that Pete and John were doing nothing. There isn't a magic tree somewhere that continuously spits out pro bowl players for those in need.

Player acquisition is an art for not a scientific endeavor. Not every piece of artwork is a masterpiece! Be patient, trust the process, enjoy the ride. At the end of the day, its just a game. A game that 31 other teams are also playing and working to acquire the best players for their teams!

Why do teams value 1st rd picks so much then, except for the Seahawks of course? :shock:

They've really worked the draft the last 4 years.

 

[LTH]

"SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter"...FADE

If only it were that easy! In any given year, roughly half of ALL 1st rounders end up as busts, bounce from team to team, or are out of the league in 2 years. To expect a 1st round pick to be a Pro bowler sets one up for major disappointment. The draft at its core is nothing but a crap shoot. There are no guaranteed picks. The best teams can do is to make picks based on a players measurables and how well they think they might fit into their system. There have been many many players throughout the years who end up busts because they were drafted by the wrong team. There are also guys who got lucky because they were drafted by the right team.

Without the World Football league, the only Kurt Warner anyone outside of his family would know about is Curt Warner. Jon Kitna was able to parlay his career from another league into a 13 year NFL career.
Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiller...all QBs drafted in 2012 before Russell Wilson. I'm not gonna even bring up the 2000 draft and Tom Brady. The point is, drafting is done on potential not guarantees.

Aaron Curry, anyone? The only guaranteed can't miss prospect of the 2009 draft. As a side note, Curry is a Seahawks defensive assistant. Maybe his coaching success mirrors his playing success. :roll:

Pete and John work the draft like no others. They don't look at it as "oh, now its our turn, who is next on Mel Kipers list?" They use the draft as one tool to improve the team. Look at 2019, they entered the draft with 4 picks and exited with 11! They added competition to the team. Metcalf could very well be the gem of the class. Six of those guys are contributing this season. If it weren't for a couple of injuries by Haynes and Blair, this draft class would be looking way better.

During this past offseason, by my count, they have brought in roughly 13 guys who were not drafted by the Seahawks but are contributing or should be shortly. That is 25% of the active roster. I can't tell you how many gloom and doom posts I read during the offseason that stated that Pete and John were doing nothing. There isn't a magic tree somewhere that continuously spits out pro bowl players for those in need.

Player acquisition is an art for not a scientific endeavor. Not every piece of artwork is a masterpiece! Be patient, trust the process, enjoy the ride. At the end of the day, its just a game. A game that 31 other teams are also playing and working to acquire the best players for their teams!

And with that beautiful insightful post I need not say anymore on the subject....


LTH

 

[Fade]

And with that beautiful insightful post I need not say anymore on the subject....


LTH

Indeed, the Seahawks defense is now fixed. We can put our heads into the sand and enjoy another early playoff exit.

 

[IndyHawk]

Fade should be the HC and GM and quit on the team in the last part of the year.

Ouch..You remember that too :lol:

 

[sc85sis]

Here's a suggestion: If you genuinely believe Pete’s role and/or John's role should be restructured, write a polite letter to Jody Allen and let her know. Give her your evidence.

Jody Allen
Vulcan Inc.
505 Fifth Avenue S., Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104

 

[Fade]

Aaron Rodgers, expectation: Super Bowl.

Tom Brady, expectation: Super Bowl.

Patrick Mahomes, expectation: Super Bowl.

Drew Brees, expectation: Super Bowl.

Lamar Jackson, expectation: Super Bowl.

Russell Wilson, expectation: Just make the playoffs, it's fine. You're not being a good fan otherwise.

When you have a franchise QB, you're supposed to be competing for Super Bowls. Of course, you're not going to win it every year, but that is the expectation. Just like you're not going to draft a pro-bowler every year in the 1st rd, but that is the expectation.



Let me frame it this way, to really ram the point home.


Generic NFL team has the #1 Defense in the NFL.

For 7 seasons they proceed to get worse every single year on defense.

By the 7th season they are the worst in NFL history.

Do you think that Generic NFL team should continue doing what they're doing? Or should they restructure at the top and change their process?

 

[Fade]

Here's a suggestion: If you genuinely believe Pete’s role and/or John's role should be restructured, write a polite letter to Jody Allen and let her know. Give her your evidence.

Jody Allen
Vulcan Inc.
505 Fifth Avenue S., Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104

Ironically, Paul would've made a change, and restructured. He would not have tolerated the worst defense in NFL history.