Read OP before Voting! Should Pete be the Head Coach only?

[Fade]

Fade should be the HC and GM and quit on the team in the last part of the year.

Ouch..You remember that too :lol:

Ouch what? Seahawks.NET isn't the Seahawks the last I checked. I don't work for the team, and that is a mistake on their part.

 

[rcaido]

Its only been 2 full seasons when we lost our HOF/Elite defense players. 2017 We still had Kam, Avril, Bennett, Sherman, & Thomas. You lose that many talent within 2 seasons time frame, you're going to rebuild.

 

[Nunya]

Aaron Rodgers, expectation: Super Bowl.

Tom Brady, expectation: Super Bowl.

Patrick Mahomes, expectation: Super Bowl.

Drew Brees, expectation: Super Bowl.

Lamar Jackson, expectation: Super Bowl.

Russell Wilson, expectation: Just make the playoffs, it's fine. You're not being a good fan.

When you have a franchise QB, you're supposed to be competing for Super Bowls. Of course, you're not going to win it every year, but that is the expectation. Just like you're not going to draft a pro-bowler every year in the 1st rd, but that is the expectation.



Let me frame it this way, to really ram the point home.


Generic NFL team has the #1 Defense in the NFL.

For 7 seasons they proceed to get worse every single year on defense.

By the 7th season they are the worst in NFL history.

Do you think that Generic NFL team should continue doing what they're doing? Or should they restructure at the top and change their process?

If football was just that easy as armchair madden experts believe........

 

[Fade]

Its only been 2 full seasons when we lost our HOF/Elite defense players. 2017 We still had Kam, Avril, Bennett, Sherman, & Thomas. You lose that many talent within 2 seasons time frame, you're going to rebuild.

2018, 2019, 2020. In 3 offseasons, they managed to build the worst defense of all-time. They're building something alright. There is no defense for this.

Changes need to be made, or the defense is just going to continue to get worse. I mean, can you get worse than the worst? :shock:

Drawing names out of hat would've netted better results. That is how bad they are at drafting defensive players. A big part of that is Ken Norton and his Cable esque efficient destruction of his unit.

Did you not notice as soon as Cable hit the street, suddenly they started drafting successful O-Lineman, and acquiring nice little finds in Free Agency along the O-LIne? Coordinators have huge impacts on their units.

When you build the worst defense in NFL history that is a steady decline for 7 straight seasons, questions need to be asked. And people need to be called out.

Regardless of what is said on this board, change is coming regardless. Norton is getting fired. McVay & Shanny are going to run circles around him. The Seahawks are at a massive competitive disadvantage with him calling the defense, and Pete is complicit. We all should be pissed.

 

[Fade]

Aaron Rodgers, expectation: Super Bowl.

Tom Brady, expectation: Super Bowl.

Patrick Mahomes, expectation: Super Bowl.

Drew Brees, expectation: Super Bowl.

Lamar Jackson, expectation: Super Bowl.

Russell Wilson, expectation: Just make the playoffs, it's fine. You're not being a good fan.

When you have a franchise QB, you're supposed to be competing for Super Bowls. Of course, you're not going to win it every year, but that is the expectation. Just like you're not going to draft a pro-bowler every year in the 1st rd, but that is the expectation.



Let me frame it this way, to really ram the point home.


Generic NFL team has the #1 Defense in the NFL.

For 7 seasons they proceed to get worse every single year on defense.

By the 7th season they are the worst in NFL history.

Do you think that Generic NFL team should continue doing what they're doing? Or should they restructure at the top and change their process?

If football was just that easy as armchair madden experts believe........

Football is not rocket science, no need to put these people on a pedestal as if it's some complicated, unsolvable equation, or an unholy art form that requires special powers from another dimension.

The defense is trash, and has gotten worse for 7 straight seasons. Just objectively look at the information, it is not hard to see. They have a failed process, and changes need to be made.

 

[sc85sis]

Fade should be the HC and GM and quit on the team in the last part of the year.

Ouch..You remember that too :lol:

Ouch what? Seahawks.NET isn't the Seahawks the last I checked. I don't work for the team, and that is a mistake on their part.

Then wrote Jody a letter. You claim you should be working for the team - apply. Put your money where your mouth (keyboard) is.

 

[Nunya]

Aaron Rodgers, expectation: Super Bowl.

Tom Brady, expectation: Super Bowl.

Patrick Mahomes, expectation: Super Bowl.

Drew Brees, expectation: Super Bowl.

Lamar Jackson, expectation: Super Bowl.

Russell Wilson, expectation: Just make the playoffs, it's fine. You're not being a good fan.

When you have a franchise QB, you're supposed to be competing for Super Bowls. Of course, you're not going to win it every year, but that is the expectation. Just like you're not going to draft a pro-bowler every year in the 1st rd, but that is the expectation.



Let me frame it this way, to really ram the point home.


Generic NFL team has the #1 Defense in the NFL.

For 7 seasons they proceed to get worse every single year on defense.

By the 7th season they are the worst in NFL history.

Do you think that Generic NFL team should continue doing what they're doing? Or should they restructure at the top and change their process?

If football was just that easy as armchair madden experts believe........

Football is not rocket science, no need to put these people on a pedestal as if it's some complicated, unsolvable equation, or an unholy art form that requires special powers from another dimension.

The defense is trash, and has gotten worse for 7 straight seasons. Just objectively look at the information, it is not hard to see. They have a failed process, and changes need to be made.

Some people do not think rocket science is difficult either.....unless they are actually a rocket scientist.

 

[rcaido]

Its only been 2 full seasons when we lost our HOF/Elite defense players. 2017 We still had Kam, Avril, Bennett, Sherman, & Thomas. You lose that many talent within 2 seasons time frame, you're going to rebuild.

2018, 2019, 2020. In 3 offseasons, they managed to build the worst defense of all-time. They're building something alright. There is no defense for this.

Changes need to be made, or the defense is just going to continue to get worse. I mean, can you get worse than the worst? :shock:

Drawing names out of hat would've netted better results. That is how bad they are at drafting defensive players. A big part of that is Ken Norton and his Cable esque efficient destruction of his unit.

Did you not notice as soon as Cable hit the street, suddenly they started drafting successful O-Lineman, and acquiring nice little finds in Free Agency along the O-LIne? Coordinators have huge impacts on their units.

When you build the worst defense in NFL history that is a steady decline for 7 straight seasons, questions need to be asked. And people need to be called out.

Regardless of what is said on this board, change is coming regardless. Norton is getting fired. McVay & Shanny are going to run circles around him. The Seahawks are at a massive competitive disadvantage with him calling the defense, and Pete is complicit. We all should be pissed.

2013 NFL is consider one of the best defense of all time, of course you're going to decline from such high bar. For the most part, Pete has had an above average defense to elite as coach. Only last season & currently this year we are consider below average.

We still have over half a season left. Our newest player Adams has hardly played. Right now we are giving up the most yards ever. Our run defense is top 10 & we are #2 in takeaways. So its not a complete disaster. If they can start adding some pressure who knows how our pass defense will be by the end of the year.

 

[Fade]

Its only been 2 full seasons when we lost our HOF/Elite defense players. 2017 We still had Kam, Avril, Bennett, Sherman, & Thomas. You lose that many talent within 2 seasons time frame, you're going to rebuild.

2018, 2019, 2020. In 3 offseasons, they managed to build the worst defense of all-time. They're building something alright. There is no defense for this.

Changes need to be made, or the defense is just going to continue to get worse. I mean, can you get worse than the worst? :shock:

Drawing names out of hat would've netted better results. That is how bad they are at drafting defensive players. A big part of that is Ken Norton and his Cable esque efficient destruction of his unit.

Did you not notice as soon as Cable hit the street, suddenly they started drafting successful O-Lineman, and acquiring nice little finds in Free Agency along the O-LIne? Coordinators have huge impacts on their units.

When you build the worst defense in NFL history that is a steady decline for 7 straight seasons, questions need to be asked. And people need to be called out.

Regardless of what is said on this board, change is coming regardless. Norton is getting fired. McVay & Shanny are going to run circles around him. The Seahawks are at a massive competitive disadvantage with him calling the defense, and Pete is complicit. We all should be pissed.

2013 NFL is consider one of the best defense of all time, of course you're going to decline from such high bar. For the most part, Pete has had an above average defense to elite as coach. Only last season & currently this year we are consider below average.

We still have over half a season left. Our newest player Adams has hardly played. Right now we are giving up the most yards ever. Our run defense is top 10 & we are #2 in takeaways. So its not a complete disaster. If they can start adding some pressure who knows how our pass defense will be by the end of the year.

I'm just asking for a step forward. You know, can they go from 27th to 25th? They can't even do that. They've blown 4 first round picks (Collier, Brooks, Adams) & $60M in cap space this off-season and they got worse? The worst of all time. What a disaster.

McVay & Shanny are going to run circles around the dumbest defense in football. Jimmy & Goff are going to throw bubble after bubble out to Trey Flowers side and they'll RAC 1st down after 1st down. When will the madness end.

 

[chris98251]

Our Run defense is adequate and more, our pass defense on 1st and 2nd down isn't great but not that bad, 3rd down is where we give up chunk yardage, our deep zone has been figured out almost since day one, with LOB they caught and were nailed, sometimes for a first and sometimes not, it was still a Thorn in our side, the TE ate us up mostly. Now Receivers are doing it also. Wright switch positions has helped with the TE and leak out guys, but we are still giving a 20 yard cushion with our 2 deep and off zone deep coverage. When they have 10 plus yards we already have given them the space for a first many times hoping to come up and make a deflection or a stop right at the marker.

You have to challenge them much sooner, or get pressure and sacks, even then you typically get there 25 percent of the time when your good, pressure maybe if your good 75 percent.

We are not that level of good so we need to make up for it somewhere else, that's blitz, that's man, that's bump and run, that's disguising coverage more and switch up at the snap.

Like the O line issue Pete is slow to change something unless his arm is twisted and nose rubbed in it. The NFL knows what they are getting every 3rd and long in Seattle and have a week to scheme for it.

 

[oldhawkfan]

"SOP in the NFL is: Rd 1 = Pro Bowler, Rd 2 = Good Starter, Rd 3 = Solid Starter, Rd 4 = Spot Starter"...FADE

If only it were that easy! In any given year, roughly half of ALL 1st rounders end up as busts, bounce from team to team, or are out of the league in 2 years. To expect a 1st round pick to be a Pro bowler sets one up for major disappointment. The draft at its core is nothing but a crap shoot. There are no guaranteed picks. The best teams can do is to make picks based on a players measurables and how well they think they might fit into their system. There have been many many players throughout the years who end up busts because they were drafted by the wrong team. There are also guys who got lucky because they were drafted by the right team.

Without the World Football league, the only Kurt Warner anyone outside of his family would know about is Curt Warner. Jon Kitna was able to parlay his career from another league into a 13 year NFL career.
Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiller...all QBs drafted in 2012 before Russell Wilson. I'm not gonna even bring up the 2000 draft and Tom Brady. The point is, drafting is done on potential not guarantees.

Aaron Curry, anyone? The only guaranteed can't miss prospect of the 2009 draft. As a side note, Curry is a Seahawks defensive assistant. Maybe his coaching success mirrors his playing success. :roll:

Pete and John work the draft like no others. They don't look at it as "oh, now its our turn, who is next on Mel Kipers list?" They use the draft as one tool to improve the team. Look at 2019, they entered the draft with 4 picks and exited with 11! They added competition to the team. Metcalf could very well be the gem of the class. Six of those guys are contributing this season. If it weren't for a couple of injuries by Haynes and Blair, this draft class would be looking way better.

During this past offseason, by my count, they have brought in roughly 13 guys who were not drafted by the Seahawks but are contributing or should be shortly. That is 25% of the active roster. I can't tell you how many gloom and doom posts I read during the offseason that stated that Pete and John were doing nothing. There isn't a magic tree somewhere that continuously spits out pro bowl players for those in need.

Player acquisition is an art for not a scientific endeavor. Not every piece of artwork is a masterpiece! Be patient, trust the process, enjoy the ride. At the end of the day, its just a game. A game that 31 other teams are also playing and working to acquire the best players for their teams!

Why do teams value 1st rd picks so much then, except for the Seahawks of course? :shock:

They've really worked the draft the last 4 years.

I would submit to you that they do value 1st round picks. I believe that they value them even more than most teams. A bunch of teams in this league seem to read mock drafts like most fans and then just pick accordingly. Pete and John look at those 1st round picks as a valuable commodity. They could use their pick on a potential player that is available at their slotted position or they could use that pick as collateral to acquire more attempts at landing players to compete in their system. The best example of this is the 2019 draft that I outlined in my previous post. 4 picks turned into 11 with 9 of them still connected to the team. 7 of those 9 have contributed significantly in games this season.

As this thread has clearly pointed out, players picked i. The last half of the first round have about a 50% success rate. True 1st round players are only available from roughly 1-10. Somewhere around pick #15, players become interchangeable depending on team needs through about the middle of the 2nd round. As the draft progresses, more and more question marks begin to surround potential players. The key word in any player chosen is potential. So much then really falls to what teams value more in the players that they choose. Its why all of the thousands upon thousands of mock drafts over the years
Have never ever produced one single mock draft that had all players slotted in the draft positions they were selected. I haven’t done the math on this or even researched it other than years of personal observation but my best guess is that the best mocks might be about 30-35% correct I. The first round. Forget about the rest of the draft.

Don’t tell me that the Seahawks don’t value first round picks. The evidence tells me something completely different.
It’s what they do with that value. The difference between two people with $1000 is one can put that grand in the bank or his pocket and not earn much interest or nothing at all. Another person could take the same $1000 and invest it in a short term CD or bond and increase the value of that original amount by significantly more than the person who stood pat.

 

[Fade]

Our Run defense is adequate and more, our pass defense on 1st and 2nd down isn't great but not that bad, 3rd down is where we give up chunk yardage, our deep zone has been figured out almost since day one, with LOB they caught and were nailed, sometimes for a first and sometimes not, it was still a Thorn in our side, the TE ate us up mostly. Now Receivers are doing it also. Wright switch positions has helped with the TE and leak out guys, but we are still giving a 20 yard cushion with our 2 deep and off zone deep coverage. When they have 10 plus yards we already have given them the space for a first many times hoping to come up and make a deflection or a stop right at the marker.

You have to challenge them much sooner, or get pressure and sacks, even then you typically get there 25 percent of the time when your good, pressure maybe if your good 75 percent.

We are not that level of good so we need to make up for it somewhere else, that's blitz, that's man, that's bump and run, that's disguising coverage more and switch up at the snap.

Like the O line issue Pete is slow to change something unless his arm is twisted and nose rubbed in it. The NFL knows what they are getting every 3rd and long in Seattle and have a week to scheme for it.

I agree with the strategies above, and what they should be doing. They don't do those things, outside of high school zone dog, bringing the safety. They don't mask crap, it's embarrassing what they roll out schematically. Square pegs and round holes everywhere. Pass rush is going to offer little improvement when the QB knows he can flip the ball out to his left, as Trey Flowers = a Free First Down. That's his nickname btw. FFD for short. :lol:

Now think about this doozy. They traded for Adams because they thought they were 1 piece away on defense.

They thought --> Got the D-Line. Got the Linebackers. Got the Corners in Griffin and Dunbar. Got Diggs, just need Adams he is the missing link. Failed process, through and through. When you blitz your SS over and over and get him hurt, may you should've traded for a DE instead.

You don't become the worst defense in history overnight. It's a long steady fall to the bottom.YEARS of bad moves, and failed coaching. Pete Carroll is at the center of it all.

Now I propose Pete should hire a professional, top flight DC, and tell the current hack to go back to the Linebacker room or kick rocks. Let John have full autonomy in the draft.

As an example, once John started picking O-Lineman and not Cable they started getting players at that position. My thinking is given full autonomy John would start picking better players in the 1st and 2nd rounds for the defense. It's worth a shot, they can't get any worse than what they've been doing for YEARS with Pete's guys he's been drafting for his defense for YEARS. Years!

I keep emphasizing years, because this is not an overreaction to 1 game, or 1 season, or even 2. This has been going on for a long time. Just because they have a QB that can mask their issues doesn't make them not true. I'm tired of this amateur hour defense. Changes need to be made.

 

[Nunya]

Now think about this doozy. They traded for Adams because they thought they were 1 piece away on defense.

They thought --> Got the D-Line. Got the Linebackers. Got the Corners in Griffin and Dunbar. Got Diggs, just need Adams he is the missing link. Failed process, through and through. When you blitz your SS over and over and get him hurt, may you should've traded for a DE instead.

Nice strawman. Claim you know what they were thinking (when you don't) and then build an argument around that.

Name 1 FA DL impact player that was available...and that would not break the bank. People like to claim that they had all of this cap money to spend, but it reality, they didn't. They seemed to take the best player available at the best price they could get and didn't go out an spend all of their cap prestige on 1 or 2 player.

 

[Fade]

I would submit to you that they do value 1st round picks. I believe that they value them even more than most teams. A bunch of teams in this league seem to read mock drafts like most fans and then just pick accordingly. Pete and John look at those 1st round picks as a valuable commodity. They could use their pick on a potential player that is available at their slotted position or they could use that pick as collateral to acquire more attempts at landing players to compete in their system. The best example of this is the 2019 draft that I outlined in my previous post. 4 picks turned into 11 with 9 of them still connected to the team. 7 of those 9 have contributed significantly in games this season.

As this thread has clearly pointed out, players picked i. The last half of the first round have about a 50% success rate. True 1st round players are only available from roughly 1-10. Somewhere around pick #15, players become interchangeable depending on team needs through about the middle of the 2nd round. As the draft progresses, more and more question marks begin to surround potential players. The key word in any player chosen is potential. So much then really falls to what teams value more in the players that they choose. Its why all of the thousands upon thousands of mock drafts over the years
Have never ever produced one single mock draft that had all players slotted in the draft positions they were selected. I haven’t done the math on this or even researched it other than years of personal observation but my best guess is that the best mocks might be about 30-35% correct I. The first round. Forget about the rest of the draft.

Don’t tell me that the Seahawks don’t value first round picks. The evidence tells me something completely different.
It’s what they do with that value. The difference between two people with $1000 is one can put that grand in the bank or his pocket and not earn much interest or nothing at all. Another person could take the same $1000 and invest it in a short term CD or bond and increase the value of that original amount by significantly more than the person who stood pat.

They're value 1st rounders so much that they trade them like candy. And they've gotten great value as well, Percy Harvin, a bad fit with Jimmy Graham, and the worst defense in NFL history. Not to mention trading out of the 1st round only to select worse players than had they stayed put.

They value 1st rounders so much they repeatedly flush them down the toilet and get ripped off. Actions speak louder than words.

Teams are trying to draft star players with their 1st selection. Arguing otherwise is just disingenuous. Of course, you're not going to hit every year. They can't even hit on 1.

With that being said if John & Pete drafted Jordyn Brooks under the pre-tense that he would be merely avg to above avg, Fire them both. They thought they were getting a stud. He may still be as it's early, but it isn't look good based off of history, and what I've seen so far.

 

[Fade]

Now think about this doozy. They traded for Adams because they thought they were 1 piece away on defense.

They thought --> Got the D-Line. Got the Linebackers. Got the Corners in Griffin and Dunbar. Got Diggs, just need Adams he is the missing link. Failed process, through and through. When you blitz your SS over and over and get him hurt, may you should've traded for a DE instead.

Nice strawman. Claim you know what they were thinking (when you don't) and then build an argument around that.

Name 1 FA DL impact player that was available...and that would not break the bank. People like to claim that they had all of this cap money to spend, but it reality, they didn't. They seemed to take the best player available at the best price they could get and didn't go out an spend all of their cap prestige on 1 or 2 player.

Older thread, I already laid it out, maybe someone will link it.

On the Adams trade it is even more unconscionable if they didn't think they were 1 piece away.

 

[Nunya]

Now think about this doozy. They traded for Adams because they thought they were 1 piece away on defense.

They thought --> Got the D-Line. Got the Linebackers. Got the Corners in Griffin and Dunbar. Got Diggs, just need Adams he is the missing link. Failed process, through and through. When you blitz your SS over and over and get him hurt, may you should've traded for a DE instead.

Nice strawman. Claim you know what they were thinking (when you don't) and then build an argument around that.

Name 1 FA DL impact player that was available...and that would not break the bank. People like to claim that they had all of this cap money to spend, but it reality, they didn't. They seemed to take the best player available at the best price they could get and didn't go out an spend all of their cap prestige on 1 or 2 player.

Older thread, I already laid it out, maybe someone will link it.

On the Adams trade it is even more unconscionable if they didn't think they were 1 piece away.

How do you figure???? Adams is a pro-bowl player that we picked up very cheap (in terms of cap space). He did not break the bank with his signing one bit. His signing left room for other signings. Now he might be expensive in 2 years, but right now he isn't.

 

[Nunya]

Now think about this doozy. They traded for Adams because they thought they were 1 piece away on defense.

They thought --> Got the D-Line. Got the Linebackers. Got the Corners in Griffin and Dunbar. Got Diggs, just need Adams he is the missing link. Failed process, through and through. When you blitz your SS over and over and get him hurt, may you should've traded for a DE instead.

Nice strawman. Claim you know what they were thinking (when you don't) and then build an argument around that.

Name 1 FA DL impact player that was available...and that would not break the bank. People like to claim that they had all of this cap money to spend, but it reality, they didn't. They seemed to take the best player available at the best price they could get and didn't go out an spend all of their cap prestige on 1 or 2 player.

Older thread, I already laid it out, maybe someone will link it.

On the Adams trade it is even more unconscionable if they didn't think they were 1 piece away.

No offense, but I don't buy into much of anything you "lay-out".

How do you figure???? Adams is a pro-bowl player that we picked up very cheap (in terms of cap space). He did not break the bank with his signing one bit. His signing left room for other signings. Now he might be expensive in 2 years, but right now he isn't.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Late firsts are overvalued by fans especially, that's for sure.

You can swing for the fences all day long in the late first. Still not gonna hit home runs with any consistency.

That is true. The 2nd round really begins around pick 20-25 depending on the year. But at the very least you should be coming away with very good starters, they're not even coming close, whiff after whiff.

With that being said if John & Pete drafted Jordyn Brooks under the pre-tense that he would be merely avg to above avg, Fire them both. They thought they were getting a stud. He may still be as it's early, but it isn't look good based off of history, and what I've seen so far.

Why do teams value 1st round picks so much?

I can definitely agree that their first round (or, rather, their highest pick) drafting has been subpar. I don't think that's reasonably able to be argued against, and I hope no one thinks that this is what I'm trying to sell people on.

I think they drafted Collier with the above average expectation, but not Brooks. Brooks is a high ceiling guy. Curious, why are you so down on Brooks? I thought he popped off the screen against Arizona and, for the most part, was adept at flying to the ball and had a few good coverage snaps. I was really encouraged by his play.

Returning to him, they definitely know they reached on him. I mean, they admitted it in the presser, stating the positional talent fell off way too steeply after him to not take him there... but they knew they needed to come away with somebody. That said, I'm not ready to throw him out just yet. I really consider this his rookie season, had a rough go of it in 2019 and his issues in 2019 seem to line up with his injury not being fully healed. Looked like he had issues with leverage, would make sense with his ankle not at 100%. You'd see guys just push him onto the ground last year. That's not really showing up in 2020. On a bad line, he's played pretty competently and I think he is a decent replacement for QJeff. Still has room to grow, too. He'll never be a huge sack guy, but if he's 2019 QJeff caliber come 2021, then I'm fine with it. It's not a home run, but they got on base.

And, before more accuse me of Collier fanboyism, I didn't want him either. Here's my tweet from before the 2019 draft.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/turbinsbicep/status/1120805049666605056[/tweet]

Hell, I even made a meme about the pick being lame. But, then I felt bad that LJ might see it, so I added disclaimers.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/turbinsbicep/status/1121667840325472256[/tweet]


Being honest as for the reason for my long response: Quality analysis has been somewhat scarce here recently, and you're one of the top posters. Didn't want people to go all Kearly on you and take your SOP statement as gospel and start repeating that Pro Bowlers are the common result of late first rounders rather than the ideal goal. I had actually made a thread expanding on those posts, but it got deleted in the rollback and I cannot be arsed to write that thing over again, lol.

 

[IndyHawk]

Fade should be the HC and GM and quit on the team in the last part of the year.

Ouch..You remember that too :lol:

Ouch what? Seahawks.NET isn't the Seahawks the last I checked. I don't work for the team, and that is a mistake on their part.

:shock: No it isn't,your a legend in your own mind.
You do know some football I'll give you that but somewhere
fantasy gets mixed up with reality.

 

[Fade]

I can definitely agree that their first round (or, rather, their highest pick) drafting has been subpar. I don't think that's reasonably able to be argued against, and I hope no one thinks that this is what I'm trying to sell people on.

I think they drafted Collier with the above average expectation, but not Brooks. Brooks is a high ceiling guy. Curious, why are you so down on Brooks? I thought he popped off the screen against Arizona and, for the most part, was adept at flying to the ball and had a few good coverage snaps. I was really encouraged by his play.

Returning to him, they definitely know they reached on him. I mean, they admitted it in the presser, stating the positional talent fell off way too steeply after him to not take him there... but they knew they needed to come away with somebody. That said, I'm not ready to throw him out just yet. I really consider this his rookie season, had a rough go of it in 2019 and his issues in 2019 seem to line up with his injury not being fully healed. Looked like he had issues with leverage, would make sense with his ankle not at 100%. You'd see guys just push him onto the ground last year. That's not really showing up in 2020. On a bad line, he's played pretty competently and I think he is a decent replacement for QJeff. Still has room to grow, too. He'll never be a huge sack guy, but if he's 2019 QJeff caliber come 2021, then I'm fine with it. It's not a home run, but they got on base.

And, before more accuse me of Collier fanboyism, I didn't want him either. Here's my tweet from before the 2019 draft.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/turbinsbicep/status/1120805049666605056[/tweet]

Hell, I even made a meme about the pick being lame. But, then I felt bad that LJ might see it, so I added disclaimers.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/turbinsbicep/status/1121667840325472256[/tweet]


Being honest as for the reason for my long response: Quality analysis has been somewhat scarce here recently, and you're one of the top posters. Didn't want people to go all Kearly on you and take your SOP statement as gospel and start repeating that Pro Bowlers are the common result of late first rounders rather than the ideal goal. I had actually made a thread expanding on those posts, but it got deleted in the rollback and I cannot be arsed to write that thing over again, lol.

Again, what teams are LOOKING TO ACCOMPLISH with their 1st pick, In a very generic 32 team, generic draft sense. Just like when you have a Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Mahomes, etc. you're looking to win the Super Bowl. But you're not realistically going to win it every year but that is the expectation. Teams are looking to get starters in the first 3 rounds of the draft. With the 1st selection being capable of making the pro-bowl. You're not always going to draft impact in the 1st round, but that is the expectation. 4th rounders are spot starters and rotational players. 5-7 is special teamers, and flyers.

Where am I wrong in this paragragh?