ColinSackorpick
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Anthony!":2k49wxvi said:
If Trent Dilfer is not elite, I don't know who is. Trent Dilfer did it with less than Wilson.
Eli Manning also has two rings, so underrated.
Reasons why Russell Wilson is factually ELITE...
- Thread starter hawksurething
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If Trent Dilfer is not elite, I don't know who is. Trent Dilfer did it with less than Wilson.
Eli Manning also has two rings, so underrated.
Sac
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ColinSackorpick":3w4671y8 said:
Tell me you're joking.
scutterhawk
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Very thorough and very CORRECT.Anthony!":3bkzwkwc said:
scutterhawk
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Anthony!":1ywduk69 said:
Yeah, but in Tcal's defense.................umm......never mind.
:lol:
Spin Doctor
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Russell Wilson is NOT elite as a Quarterback. In my opinion there are very few truly elite QB's in the NFL, we're talking maybe 3-4. You have to be a top notch player in order to be considered elite in the NFL, I do not think Russell Wilson is there yet.
Wilson is a good Quarterback, but unfortunately he has a couple of giant flaws as a pure passer that he needs to work out. These flaws MAY be due to Bevell, and Carroll's philosophies, but I also think Wilson shares some of the blame.
The first drawback as a passer that Wilson holds is his penchant for skipping open receivers. When I watch Wilson, he'll be looking at an open WR, but because the window is not big enough he won't throw it. I know that Wilson is thinking about it, but very rarely does he pull the trigger unless his receiver has a lot of room. When Wilson does decide to throw the ball to that small window his timing is off. Understanding that he doesn't want to turn the ball over, but these types of throws are ones that guys such as Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc make on a regular basis. This leads to more offensive production and less sacks.
Wilson lacks timing. When the Seahawks started introducing more slants, and short routes it became apparent that Wilson struggled a bit with those types of passes. His main issue? Timing. He would throw to receivers too late, or too early I feel. He looked like short timing passes were a foreign concept to him. He started looking better towards the end of the season, but it is clear he still needed to work on his timing passes.
Russell Wilson also skips the middle of the field too much, and when he does throw to the middle of the field bad things seem to happen. This is related to his timing in my opinion. He always seems like he is a step too late when throwing over the middle. This may be why he avoids it, but either way it is an area of the field that needs to be utilized. Using routes that only attack the sidelines really limits the passing game.
Wilson holds onto the ball for TOO long. Sometimes this is a good thing, because of his ability to use his speed and elusiveness to gash defenses. Unfortunately it is also a bad thing, because he isn't afraid to hold onto the ball for 5+ seconds, he does this consistently and it leads to sacks and QB hits. I will admit that this is also Bevell's fault for not calling any checkdowns, and essentially calling long developing route plays for all of the receivers behind a mediocre O-Line.
My last gripe about Wilson as a passer is his lack of audibling. He doesn't change the play very much, even when the circumstance calls for it. This is what all of the top tier passers in the league thrive off of. They see an unfavorable match up or situation, and they change the play to suit the situation. He just runs the play, and again... this could be something that Carroll and Bevell limit. I do not know how much leeway they give him to change the play.
All and all Wilson is a good QB. He's has some of the best best deep accuracy in the NFL, if not the best. His mobility creates matchup nightmares for other teams, because despite my criticisms of Wilson's passing, he is still a good passer. Part of me thinks that many of these issues might stem from trust issues. I don't think Wilson really trusts his receivers to make plays on a consistent basis. Even if he sees them open he looks hesitant because a defender might be nearby. When I think about it more, he never had that problem with Tate. Tate was a guy that he went to even if he might not have been open. I think our lack of good receiving options are evident in Wilson's play. He does not look like he trusts our receivers very much.
Wilson is a good Quarterback, but unfortunately he has a couple of giant flaws as a pure passer that he needs to work out. These flaws MAY be due to Bevell, and Carroll's philosophies, but I also think Wilson shares some of the blame.
The first drawback as a passer that Wilson holds is his penchant for skipping open receivers. When I watch Wilson, he'll be looking at an open WR, but because the window is not big enough he won't throw it. I know that Wilson is thinking about it, but very rarely does he pull the trigger unless his receiver has a lot of room. When Wilson does decide to throw the ball to that small window his timing is off. Understanding that he doesn't want to turn the ball over, but these types of throws are ones that guys such as Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc make on a regular basis. This leads to more offensive production and less sacks.
Wilson lacks timing. When the Seahawks started introducing more slants, and short routes it became apparent that Wilson struggled a bit with those types of passes. His main issue? Timing. He would throw to receivers too late, or too early I feel. He looked like short timing passes were a foreign concept to him. He started looking better towards the end of the season, but it is clear he still needed to work on his timing passes.
Russell Wilson also skips the middle of the field too much, and when he does throw to the middle of the field bad things seem to happen. This is related to his timing in my opinion. He always seems like he is a step too late when throwing over the middle. This may be why he avoids it, but either way it is an area of the field that needs to be utilized. Using routes that only attack the sidelines really limits the passing game.
Wilson holds onto the ball for TOO long. Sometimes this is a good thing, because of his ability to use his speed and elusiveness to gash defenses. Unfortunately it is also a bad thing, because he isn't afraid to hold onto the ball for 5+ seconds, he does this consistently and it leads to sacks and QB hits. I will admit that this is also Bevell's fault for not calling any checkdowns, and essentially calling long developing route plays for all of the receivers behind a mediocre O-Line.
My last gripe about Wilson as a passer is his lack of audibling. He doesn't change the play very much, even when the circumstance calls for it. This is what all of the top tier passers in the league thrive off of. They see an unfavorable match up or situation, and they change the play to suit the situation. He just runs the play, and again... this could be something that Carroll and Bevell limit. I do not know how much leeway they give him to change the play.
All and all Wilson is a good QB. He's has some of the best best deep accuracy in the NFL, if not the best. His mobility creates matchup nightmares for other teams, because despite my criticisms of Wilson's passing, he is still a good passer. Part of me thinks that many of these issues might stem from trust issues. I don't think Wilson really trusts his receivers to make plays on a consistent basis. Even if he sees them open he looks hesitant because a defender might be nearby. When I think about it more, he never had that problem with Tate. Tate was a guy that he went to even if he might not have been open. I think our lack of good receiving options are evident in Wilson's play. He does not look like he trusts our receivers very much.
theincrediblesok
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Nope having the #1 Defense does not guarantee you a Superbowl win. Since 2003 only the 2013 Seahawks and 2008 Steelers won with a #1 Defense.
The 2010 Chargers had the #1 Defense and the #1 Offense and didn't get to sniff the playoffs with a 9-7 record.
The 2009 Saints were the only #1 Offense to win a SB since 2003.
These are all facts
The 2010 Chargers had the #1 Defense and the #1 Offense and didn't get to sniff the playoffs with a 9-7 record.
The 2009 Saints were the only #1 Offense to win a SB since 2003.
These are all facts
Sac
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253hawk":1gi6hdv4 said:
This image is Sac approved.
Tical21
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Find a coaches tape (all-22) of a Seahawks game this season. Any of them. Pick a game. Find another tape of any other "elite" qb.
Pause the tape when we get up to the line of scrimmage.
What defense is the other team running?
What plays should work against that defense?
Hit play.
Pause again after 3 seconds.
Has Bevell called a play that should work against this defense?
Look at Russell's head. Who is his primary target? Is this player open? If not, who is his secondary target? Is this player open?
Hit play again.
What decision does Russell make?
Do the same process with another "elite" QB.
You will find the answer to whether or not Russell Wilson is an elite QB.
Pause the tape when we get up to the line of scrimmage.
What defense is the other team running?
What plays should work against that defense?
Hit play.
Pause again after 3 seconds.
Has Bevell called a play that should work against this defense?
Look at Russell's head. Who is his primary target? Is this player open? If not, who is his secondary target? Is this player open?
Hit play again.
What decision does Russell make?
Do the same process with another "elite" QB.
You will find the answer to whether or not Russell Wilson is an elite QB.
scutterhawk":uxyno1j3 said:
Just to emphasize the point about our Run game more. Without Wilsons rush yards and taking all QBs rush yards out we drop to 6th in yards, we drop from #1 in rush tds to 10th, we drop from 5,3 ypa to 4.6. Also that does not even include the yards Lynch gets due to the read option and the threat of Wilson. Again more proof of what an Elite duel threat QB can have on a team. You can also go and look at the all 22 or ask Huard or listen to him about the number of times on pass plays no one is open but some how weather by eye movement, or scrambling or ball placement or running Wilson make something out of nothing, That is what Elite QBs do they make something out of nothing, Now does Wilson occasionally miss, of course so does every Elite QB, no one is perfect. But like every Elite Qb, he more often than not finds a way to make something out of nothing.
Tical21
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Why would you need to consult the All-22 or Brock Huard when you already chart all the plays from the stands?
theincrediblesok
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This is going to be a tireless debate. The duo of Anthony and HST will not be able to change Tical's views.
I'm hoping Wilson can do great this year now that he has a legit target, and hopefully this season he can turn some heads and change some opinions. Other than that I respect other's views of Wilson, good or bad. He's still learning folks and we get to enjoy watching him blossom.
I'm hoping Wilson can do great this year now that he has a legit target, and hopefully this season he can turn some heads and change some opinions. Other than that I respect other's views of Wilson, good or bad. He's still learning folks and we get to enjoy watching him blossom.
hawksurething
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Tical21":10tawq6x said:
You just destroyed your own arguement.
No the primary is rarly open. In under 2.8 seconds ! Now once Wilson get 3 to 5 seconds in the pocket average...then we can say he is holding the ball to long or missing open WRs.(who still are not open with clear seperation under 6'2 or without blazing speed,it is just the CB bating the QB so they can pick 6 it). We have Jimmy now so watch Wilson stats blow up.
#2Wr is rarely open . even if he was ? Again it would not matter cause Wilson faces pressure in 2.8 seconds on average ! (In case you doing know...the time for 3 step drop is at least 3 seconds). Brady & Peyton would get destroyed with so little time before that can even set up to throw, since we know they can't throw it off of their back foot well !!!
So you lose this debate.
It just so happens that Wilson is so amazing he can escape, throw off his back foot,or just choose to thrown it away and live for another down keeping hawks in the game.
You lost this debate horribly !
Tical21
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Watch for yourself my friend. Take the Super Bowl for example. The guys on the telecast and the popular sentiment after the game were that our receivers were blanketed by the man coverage of Revis and Browner, correct? Go watch the game for yourself. Have at it. Rip my ideas to shreds.hawksurething":25cbjvp0 said:
Wilson faced pressure before 3 seconds once, and that was on a naked right into a blitz. Watch for yourself man. The time for a 3 step drop is not three seconds. Sorry. Go ahead. Show me some examples of your theory in action. Don't worry, I'll wait.
When the primary receiver wins their routes, elite passers plant their back foot and let the ball fly. Period. They aren't gunshy. If their primary receiver wins their route, even if only by a little bit, the ball comes out of their hand. They don't play scared.
Yeah, you got me with the facts. I'm cooked. I guess I lose this debate.
hawksurething
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Tical21":330c1wj5 said:
Dude got to the blog of mthe all 22. Then read the anoynoms comment...he explains it all or just look thru this thread as I already proved baldwin was only open 3 times. The pick ref TD,when revis stopped running since the ball went deep in the other side,and once for a gain that would have been only 3 yards. Revis !
hawksurething":1ta9b5p8 said:
You know it is funny the announcers all year said most of the time no one was open, Heard and Millan said most of the time no one was open, Moon said no one was open, the all22 actually shows most of the time no one is open when Wilson is looking at them. Notice I said looking at them when he is looing at them in his progressions, not after the fact. ESPN has said the same thing, and yet we are to ignore all that overwhelming evidence because one person says to. Yeah I think I like anyone with any sense will go with our own eyes and the experts, not the one who has an agenda. All Elite QBs miss an open person, Wilson does it no more than any other Elite QB, and the experts, the facts, the all 22, all prove it. It is not just are they open, it is are they really open, are they open enough to get the yards, and are they open in a widow were they can be throw to, meaning in a passing lane that all QBs need. So it is not always as simple as they are or are not open. Like I said most should believe their eyes, and the experts not the one with an agenda.
Decimation
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Russell is elite, I would take him over many of the quarterbacks available in the nfl or draft, He's a star and we will win the Super Bowl next year. It's destiny. We have jimmy Graham, a number one tight end who's considered a wide receiver. This guy will win us a Super Bowl, trust me. I will laugh so hard if it doesn't happen: Super Bowl 50 is ours. Its going to happen.cThe seahawks are the best team in the nfl and there's no freaking way they do not make the superbowl!
Decimation
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We will win Super Bowl 50! Quote me on that:
hawksurething
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Well said Anthony !
Look at what he wrote guys.it is a master piece !...
You know it is funny the announcers all year said most of the time no one was open, Heard and Millan said most of the time no one was open, Moon said no one was open, the all22 actually shows most of the time no one is open when Wilson is looking at them. Notice I said looking at them when he is looing at them in his progressions, not after the fact. ESPN has said the same thing, and yet we are to ignore all that overwhelming evidence because one person says to. Yeah I think I like anyone with any sense will go with our own eyes and the experts, not the one who has an agenda. All Elite QBs miss an open person, Wilson does it no more than any other Elite QB, and the experts, the facts, the all 22, all prove it. It is not just are they open, it is are they really open, are they open enough to get the yards, and are they open in a widow were they can be throw to, meaning in a passing lane that all QBs need. So it is not always as simple as they are or are not open. Like I said most should believe their eyes, and the experts not the one with an agenda.
I will add to this and say benne threw 2 picks a pick 6 trying to throw to Marshall with revis covering him. I would not have even attempted to throw revis way. Russle has guts !
Peyton has been a int machine forcing balls & making his team lose. A notorious choker in the media. I like our Dangeruss who throws the ball away if nothing clear is there. Bridgewater does this to...he was 80% over 2nd half of his rookie season. Wow !
Russ got hawks from 7-9 to winners playing this way. Sky is the limit.
Look at what he wrote guys.it is a master piece !...
You know it is funny the announcers all year said most of the time no one was open, Heard and Millan said most of the time no one was open, Moon said no one was open, the all22 actually shows most of the time no one is open when Wilson is looking at them. Notice I said looking at them when he is looing at them in his progressions, not after the fact. ESPN has said the same thing, and yet we are to ignore all that overwhelming evidence because one person says to. Yeah I think I like anyone with any sense will go with our own eyes and the experts, not the one who has an agenda. All Elite QBs miss an open person, Wilson does it no more than any other Elite QB, and the experts, the facts, the all 22, all prove it. It is not just are they open, it is are they really open, are they open enough to get the yards, and are they open in a widow were they can be throw to, meaning in a passing lane that all QBs need. So it is not always as simple as they are or are not open. Like I said most should believe their eyes, and the experts not the one with an agenda.
I will add to this and say benne threw 2 picks a pick 6 trying to throw to Marshall with revis covering him. I would not have even attempted to throw revis way. Russle has guts !
Peyton has been a int machine forcing balls & making his team lose. A notorious choker in the media. I like our Dangeruss who throws the ball away if nothing clear is there. Bridgewater does this to...he was 80% over 2nd half of his rookie season. Wow !
Russ got hawks from 7-9 to winners playing this way. Sky is the limit.
