Rumor: Hawks going after Packer CB Tramon Williams

[jblaze]

Williams would probably end up at nickel, just basing that off the idea that they pefer size on the outside. Williams is 5'11 191lbs. We could see him battling with Burley for the Nickel spot while Simon and probably a draft pick or someone else go for the side opposite of Sherman.

Possibly. Williams is a hybrid CB who can play inside and outside. Also Burley is nothing more than nickel depth at this point. My thought is that it's much easier to draft a rookie to play the nickel than a proven outside guy. The outside guys tend to take quite a bit longer and drafting a rookie to come in and play the #2 spot right away is unrealistic.

I think this is a hedge for a year until a rookie drafted this year takes over next. Maybe that's Simon if he turns things around or maybe that's a rookie we get this year. You can draft a rookie nickel CB late in the draft who can also return kicks or punts as well. Those guys have the skills and abilities to return. That or a WR we draft, both with agility and speed.

I kind of like this idea at the right price. Tramon is a good corner if he hasn't lost too much. The #2 CB spot is a glaring hole in my opinion. No one is throwing at Sherman and the seam/post is taken away with ET so that's really the only place they have to go with the ball and in our scheme, they're on a bit of an island outside with inside help. I think they're right on with this idea, go get a veteran who can come in and keep this train rolling and draft and develop for the future with a cheap rookie contract option.

 

[HawkGA]

I think they'll hedge their bets on the #2 CB spot. They'll get a FA veteran CB and also draft one, possibly two late.

This seems to be their general off-season strategy each off-season. If there's an area of need, shore it up with a veteran, but also bring in a young guy. Gives you protection if the young guy doesn't pan out but also lets you not have to reach in the draft to fill a need.

 

[Hawkfan77]

I don't think it has anything to do with Simon, we need bodies and capable players. Simon played well before he got hurt. Can never have too many CBs

I don't know. You don't go out and give 5m/yr to a 32 year old veteran if you think your 23 yr old third year cheap CB is capable. You don't give 5m to a depth player, he would certainly start.

Just because he's asking for 5 mil doesn't mean the Hawks are giving him 5 mil...

But they did sign Winfield to a 3 mil deal and cut him because he got beat out. They want competition.

5m is not what he's asking for, 5m is what several GM's in the league has said his floor is.

Again, you don't sign a guy to a 3-4 yr contract around 5m a year to be a backup. Competition of course is the expectation but Tramon is a known quantity and JS knows him well from Green Bay. They know he'll start, period.

The contract does not matter. This isn't baseball, contracts are not guaranteed. Williams is not going to get "big" money, so if he's brought in he will compete and I think (like others have pointed out) he will play more inside, a spot Simon doesn't play.

Plus all our CBs get snaps. People want to throw away Simon, for whatever reason, but the Hawks will not. Simon is part of the plan for next year. I see Williams as a replacement for Lane and also Cary Williams will be depth. Plus the draft. Bring them in and let them compete.

 

[McGruff]

I think they'll hedge their bets on the #2 CB spot. They'll get a FA veteran CB and also draft one, possibly two late.

This seems to be their general off-season strategy each off-season. If there's an area of need, shore it up with a veteran, but also bring in a young guy. Gives you protection if the young guy doesn't pan out but also lets you not have to reach in the draft to fill a need.

The other thing is they still haveat least three young guys on the roster with the right size speed combo. Simon, Pinkins and Shead.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I don't think it has anything to do with Simon, we need bodies and capable players. Simon played well before he got hurt. Can never have too many CBs

I don't know. You don't go out and give 5m/yr to a 32 year old veteran if you think your 23 yr old third year cheap CB is capable. You don't give 5m to a depth player, he would certainly start.

Just because he's asking for 5 mil doesn't mean the Hawks are giving him 5 mil...

But they did sign Winfield to a 3 mil deal and cut him because he got beat out. They want competition.

Simon gets beat on the regular, he was fully healthy when he was letting the Patriots roast him, Carolina etc.

 

[Largent80]

Simon was essentially a rookie coming back from an injury the year before when he didn't even play. Then he injured his shoulder. He has all the tools to be a good CB, but he is still in development.

Man it would be great to get both of these Williams'. Starter at slot and backup, both with experience.

 

[jblaze]

Contracts most certainly do matter. If we signed Tramon, at least his first year would be fully guaranteed, that's typical of this type of signing. Competition yes and he possibly could get beat out but they fully expect him to come in and win the #2 spot. He will not play the nickel, he never has in his career and you don't typically go from from the outside in, it's the other way around. You need that elite quickness to play the slot and players lose that into their 30's. They're looking at him to play the #2 spot for sure. He's a proven veteran CB.

Simon had his shot when Maxwell was out. Much like Sherman got his chance and Maxwell, etc, etc. He didn't take advantage of it and has shown signs of being a knucklehead. They're obviously not going to give up on Simon, but I don't think he figures into their long term plans at the #2 CB spot so this is a hedge. It's better than relying on Simon and a rookie CB at this point. Maybe this will wake Simon up a bit and motivate him.

Regardless, I have all the faith in JS/PC, they'll make the right decision.

 

[Basis4day]

I don't think it has anything to do with Simon, we need bodies and capable players. Simon played well before he got hurt. Can never have too many CBs

I don't know. You don't go out and give 5m/yr to a 32 year old veteran if you think your 23 yr old third year cheap CB is capable. You don't give 5m to a depth player, he would certainly start.

Just because he's asking for 5 mil doesn't mean the Hawks are giving him 5 mil...

But they did sign Winfield to a 3 mil deal and cut him because he got beat out. They want competition.

Simon gets beat on the regular, he was fully healthy when he was letting the Patriots roast him, Carolina etc.

He played better last year as an outside corner. Nickel corner is a whole different position. And he wasn't fully healthy, hence his off-season surgery.

 

[McGruff]

Contracts most certainly do matter. If we signed Tramon, at least his first year would be fully guaranteed, that's typical of this type of signing. Competition yes and he possibly could get beat out but they fully expect him to come in and win the #2 spot. He will not play the nickel, he never has in his career and you don't typically go from from the outside in, it's the other way around. You need that elite quickness to play the slot and players lose that into their 30's. They're looking at him to play the #2 spot for sure. He's a proven veteran CB.

Simon had his shot when Maxwell was out. Much like Sherman got his chance and Maxwell, etc, etc. He didn't take advantage of it and has shown signs of being a knucklehead. They're obviously not going to give up on Simon, but I don't think he figures into their long term plans at the #2 CB spot so this is a hedge. It's better than relying on Simon and a rookie CB at this point. Maybe this will wake Simon up a bit and motivate him.

Regardless, I have all the faith in JS/PC, they'll make the right decision.

Antoine winfield was fully guaranteed and we still released him.

 

[Hawkfan77]

I don't think it has anything to do with Simon, we need bodies and capable players. Simon played well before he got hurt. Can never have too many CBs

I don't know. You don't go out and give 5m/yr to a 32 year old veteran if you think your 23 yr old third year cheap CB is capable. You don't give 5m to a depth player, he would certainly start.

Just because he's asking for 5 mil doesn't mean the Hawks are giving him 5 mil...

But they did sign Winfield to a 3 mil deal and cut him because he got beat out. They want competition.

Simon gets beat on the regular, he was fully healthy when he was letting the Patriots roast him, Carolina etc.

He was fully healthy? So he had surgery last week just because he was bored?

 

[Hawkfan77]

Contracts most certainly do matter. If we signed Tramon, at least his first year would be fully guaranteed, that's typical of this type of signing. Competition yes and he possibly could get beat out but they fully expect him to come in and win the #2 spot. He will not play the nickel, he never has in his career and you don't typically go from from the outside in, it's the other way around. You need that elite quickness to play the slot and players lose that into their 30's. They're looking at him to play the #2 spot for sure. He's a proven veteran CB.

Simon had his shot when Maxwell was out. Much like Sherman got his chance and Maxwell, etc, etc. He didn't take advantage of it and has shown signs of being a knucklehead. They're obviously not going to give up on Simon, but I don't think he figures into their long term plans at the #2 CB spot so this is a hedge. It's better than relying on Simon and a rookie CB at this point. Maybe this will wake Simon up a bit and motivate him.

Regardless, I have all the faith in JS/PC, they'll make the right decision.

Antoine winfield was fully guaranteed and we still released him.

Thanks McGruff, that is the point I was trying to make.

Let's just pretend the Hawks signed Williams to a 4 year 20 million dollar deal (the contract jblaze keeps saying he will get). A 4 year 20 million deal on the surface seems like a large contract, but the real contract might be only a 1 or 2 year deal where they can cut him with minimal cap ramifications. So when I say the contract does not matter, it most likely does not. Like McGruff said, Winfield had a fully guaranteed contract for 3 million and got cut. Heck, I think we've talked about KJ Wright's contract and how it's actually structured as more of a 2 or 3 year deal.

 

[hawkfan68]

Tramon Williams, the guy that Kearse beat for the game winner in NFCCG. No thanks.

 

[HawkFan72]

Tramon Williams, the guy that Kearse beat for the game winner in NFCCG. No thanks.

He had great coverage on that play. It was just a perfect throw. What more would you have wanted him to do as a defender?

 

[bbsplitter]

Contracts most certainly do matter. If we signed Tramon, at least his first year would be fully guaranteed, that's typical of this type of signing. Competition yes and he possibly could get beat out but they fully expect him to come in and win the #2 spot. He will not play the nickel, he never has in his career and you don't typically go from from the outside in, it's the other way around. You need that elite quickness to play the slot and players lose that into their 30's. They're looking at him to play the #2 spot for sure. He's a proven veteran CB.

Simon had his shot when Maxwell was out. Much like Sherman got his chance and Maxwell, etc, etc. He didn't take advantage of it and has shown signs of being a knucklehead. They're obviously not going to give up on Simon, but I don't think he figures into their long term plans at the #2 CB spot so this is a hedge. It's better than relying on Simon and a rookie CB at this point. Maybe this will wake Simon up a bit and motivate him.

Regardless, I have all the faith in JS/PC, they'll make the right decision.

Antoine winfield was fully guaranteed and we still released him.

Thanks McGruff, that is the point I was trying to make.

Let's just pretend the Hawks signed Williams to a 4 year 20 million dollar deal (the contract jblaze keeps saying he will get). A 4 year 20 million deal on the surface seems like a large contract, but the real contract might be only a 1 or 2 year deal where they can cut him with minimal cap ramifications. So when I say the contract does not matter, it most likely does not. Like McGruff said, Winfield had a fully guaranteed contract for 3 million and got cut. Heck, I think we've talked about KJ Wright's contract and how it's actually structured as more of a 2 or 3 year deal.

Except he is on record saying he wants high guarantees so that exact type of contract situation doesn't happen. Obviously maybe no one makes him that offer, but if we are just going off of what people are saying about his market and what he wants, that type of contract you have described (while common) doesn't make sense for his situation.

 

[MysterMatt]

Pursuing Cary Williams too. Good moves.

I like him from a talent perspective, but he's a bit of a headcase as I recall. Proceed with caution.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I don't think it has anything to do with Simon, we need bodies and capable players. Simon played well before he got hurt. Can never have too many CBs

I don't know. You don't go out and give 5m/yr to a 32 year old veteran if you think your 23 yr old third year cheap CB is capable. You don't give 5m to a depth player, he would certainly start.

Just because he's asking for 5 mil doesn't mean the Hawks are giving him 5 mil...

But they did sign Winfield to a 3 mil deal and cut him because he got beat out. They want competition.

5m is not what he's asking for, 5m is what several GM's in the league has said his floor is.

Again, you don't sign a guy to a 3-4 yr contract around 5m a year to be a backup. Competition of course is the expectation but Tramon is a known quantity and JS knows him well from Green Bay. They know he'll start, period.

Well, he turned down 2y/8m with GB. It's pretty safe to assume it'll take 5m.

The bigger issue for me, outside of age and cost, is that signing him will negate any comp pick awarded for Maxwell. So it's like signing an old CB to a mid level contract and trading a 3rd rounder for him (assuming Maxwell gets what he's expected to). It's unlikely that we lose another qualifying UFA for comp pick consideration. So even though he'd be less valuable, the net loss would be zero. Thus no comp pick.

 

[pehawk]

Pursuing Cary Williams too. Good moves.

I like him from a talent perspective, but he's a bit of a headcase as I recall. Proceed with caution.

Exactly why I do like him.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Well, he turned down 2y/8m with GB. It's pretty safe to assume it'll take 5m.

The bigger issue for me, outside of age and cost, is that signing him will negate any comp pick awarded for Maxwell. So it's like signing an old CB to a mid level contract and trading a 3rd rounder for him (assuming Maxwell gets what he's expected to). It's unlikely that we lose another qualifying UFA for comp pick consideration. So even though he'd be less valuable, the net loss would be zero. Thus no comp pick.

Possibly not. The Patriots signed Brandon Browner to a 3 years 16.8 million deal and also Brandon LaFell to a 3 year 9 million deal but are still projected to gain a 3rd round compensatory pick from the loss of Aqib Talib.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

Pete and John know that showing off the facilities and feeling the VMAC vibe are big selling points. So bring in as much talent as possible and let the picking and choosing commence. It's like their first 2 years, except P&J can be more selective with invitees and they're in a better position to make take-it-or-leave-it offers.

If Tramon gets a deal with the Seahawks, it's because he is unquestionably the right player for the job.

Charlie Whitehurst and Percy Harvin might question some of Pete and John's moves.

Obviously they haven't hit 100% on their acquisitions. Other than that, I'm not sure what the connection is. Charlie happened at a time when there weren't many options at QB. It was truly a spaghetti-to-the-wall situation during the early implementation of the Always Compete mantra. Percy was a swing-for-the-fences move and an anomaly. Both were trades, and we're talking FAs. Both were younger and the Hawks weren't – and still aren't – a destination for offensive players. We've had to overpay for FA contributors on that side of the ball. The only exceptions being role players like Moeaki and Tukuafu or PS guys like Phil Bates and RaShaun Allen.

I was thinking more along the lines of Winfield. He might have been the biggest FA miss, but it was hardly a speed bump and we knew he was going to have to compete for time. At this point, with all of our potential RCBs recovering from injury/surgery, we're not in a position to spend a lot for a situational or rotational player. We know P&J aren't afraid to go with the aged veteran, but I don't think they want to make a habit of nabbing them just to cut them in 3 or 4 months. For that reason, I think they will get Tramon only if they know he's good to go.

 

[McGruff]

Unless he gets out there and finds out that GB was right on the money.