Russell #1 again

[Smelly McUgly]

Cartire said what I was going to say about Tebow winning eight (and a playoff game!) with less talent. A league-average QB in that conference still wins 9-10 games and maybe gets to the Super Bowl.

I think Kearly and I are just in disagreement about how valuable Manning is and how valuable elite pass rushers are. I think that with the game being so pass-oriented, elite corners, safeties, and pass rushers have extremely high value, and Quinn being so young and cheap versus a declining Manning is an easy win for Quinn.

Denver had elite or near-elite pass rushers when they signed Manning in Dumervil and Miller, so Manning was clearly the best choice for them over Quinn, but if they had a league average QB and no pass rush and they could get Quinn at his current price...they still might take Manning, but that would be an error.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Really not a fan of Barnwell not mentioning during his Luck praise that there is literally zero chance he brings the Colts back for that win if Kansas City didn't lose starters every five minutes throughout the whole game.

The Luck legend continues to grow.....

You can say the Seahawks don't beat the Redskins in the playoffs in 2012 if RG3 didn't re-aggravate his knee injury too.

Injuries happen in football. Luck and Wilson both still had to do the necessary things to bring their teams back from a deficit.

The Luck hate is so tired on this board. :roll:

 

[RolandDeschain]

Really not a fan of Barnwell not mentioning during his Luck praise that there is literally zero chance he brings the Colts back for that win if Kansas City didn't lose starters every five minutes throughout the whole game.

The Luck legend continues to grow.....

You can say the Seahawks don't beat the Redskins in the playoffs in 2012 if RG3 didn't re-aggravate his knee injury too.

Injuries happen in football. Luck and Wilson both still had to do the necessary things to bring their teams back from a deficit.

The Luck hate is so tired on this board. :roll:

You could, but it's not as accurate of a statement for several reasons. Are you saying you actually think the Colts still win that if the Chiefs didn't get all those injuries, including Jamaal Charles VERY early on? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Anthony!]

I like Barnwell, but...
He is resolute in his nerdery. He posts weekly inseason lists of coaches who violate his narrow protocols on end of half and 4th down percentages, stuff like that.

I guarantee, even with the money, at least 3/4 of the GMs would take Luck and his first pick salary over Russ. Which makes Barnwell's value list immaterial.

you would be wrong, the word is out and people are starting to see it, RW is being rated ahead of luck by some, people are seeing that Luv has more around him then the thought, and that Rw has performed at a higher level. You might be right had you said half but not 3/4 any more, and even the half might change soon.

The following is not a personal attack: You are a dedicated Wilson sycophant. I am sure it is a glorious feeling. Sometimes I wish I were more capable of idolizing a player.

But reality is this (dated July 2)http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-offse...ings-continue-to-go-over-well-on-the-internet which included

Eight general managers, two former GMs, four pro personnel evaluators, seven coordinators, two head coaches, two position coaches and a top executive

and yet the players ranked him 5th and ahead of luck, other rankings show him ahead of luck, I said starting to, and I I did not say all yet.

 

[kearly]

No, im sorry. That denver team without manning wins more then 3-4 games. Thats a complete undersale. I think if you just look 3 seasons ago, you can see a very good example of that with Denver. How quickly we forget a young Tim Tebow running the show there and having a playoff win.

And on top of that. The talent in Denver is far superior to what it was with Tebow.

I think they win 3 or 4. But to be fair a lot of that is because of Brock Osweiler. And the rest of it is because Denver's run game and OL revert to a pile of shit without Manning.

The year that Tebow won a playoff game, the Denver defense was having a fluke season. IIRC, that was around the time their defense went worst, first, worst in three years.

Denver's current defense has a few stars, but is mostly full of mediocre finesse players. I have a hard time envisioning the Broncos leaning on their defense to win games with the offense, particularly the run offense, being in complete misery.

The thing is, we don't even have to debate this. There is a precedent. Indy in 2011. Denver's defense is a little better than Indy's was, but otherwise I think they are pretty similar teams. Among those similarities, inexperienced backup QBs who would probably be really bad if forced into action.

 

[kearly]

and yet the players ranked him 5th and ahead of luck, other rankings show him ahead of luck, I said starting to, and I I did not say all yet.

He didn't say players, he said GMs.

We all love Wilson, but he is not as respected by GMs as he should be.

 

[Scottemojo]

I like Barnwell, but...
He is resolute in his nerdery. He posts weekly inseason lists of coaches who violate his narrow protocols on end of half and 4th down percentages, stuff like that.

I guarantee, even with the money, at least 3/4 of the GMs would take Luck and his first pick salary over Russ. Which makes Barnwell's value list immaterial.

you would be wrong, the word is out and people are starting to see it, RW is being rated ahead of luck by some, people are seeing that Luv has more around him then the thought, and that Rw has performed at a higher level. You might be right had you said half but not 3/4 any more, and even the half might change soon.

The following is not a personal attack: You are a dedicated Wilson sycophant. I am sure it is a glorious feeling. Sometimes I wish I were more capable of idolizing a player.

But reality is this (dated July 2)http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-offse...ings-continue-to-go-over-well-on-the-internet which included

Eight general managers, two former GMs, four pro personnel evaluators, seven coordinators, two head coaches, two position coaches and a top executive

and yet the players ranked him 5th and ahead of luck, other rankings show him ahead of luck, I said starting to, and I I did not say all yet.

Have you ever been wrong in your life?

 

[HawkFan72]

I tried to start a thread like this last year: What would Russell Wilson be worth on the open trade market...and I was told I am an idiot for even talking about it.

That may be true, but I am happy to see I am not the only one entertaining these "what-ifs".

I am surprised to see Wilson #1 though, even though it makes sense.

 

[kearly]

Cartire said what I was going to say about Tebow winning eight (and a playoff game!) with less talent. A league-average QB in that conference still wins 9-10 games and maybe gets to the Super Bowl.

I think Kearly and I are just in disagreement about how valuable Manning is and how valuable elite pass rushers are. I think that with the game being so pass-oriented, elite corners, safeties, and pass rushers have extremely high value, and Quinn being so young and cheap versus a declining Manning is an easy win for Quinn.

Denver had elite or near-elite pass rushers when they signed Manning in Dumervil and Miller, so Manning was clearly the best choice for them over Quinn, but if they had a league average QB and no pass rush and they could get Quinn at his current price...they still might take Manning, but that would be an error.

Unfortunately, there is no WAR stat in football, so this kind of discussion is always going to be speculative.

But I look at Denver last year and how they played almost a full season without Von Miller and still won 13 games while leading the NFL in scoring differential. The Rams played a full season with career year Robert Quinn and a baseline caliber starter at QB and went 7-9 with a negative scoring differential. The Rams have finished 7-9 with similar scoring differentials in 3 of the last 4 seasons. Whether they had good Robert Quinn, career year Robert Quinn, or no Robert Quinn, the numbers and results were basically the same.

He's an elite player, but a single non-QB player will only have a fraction of the impact an elite QB has. Especially one like Manning, who makes a terrible OL and RB group look like pro-bowlers with his ability to unload the ball extremely fast and audible into plays that give the running game layup opportunities.

 

[Anthony!]

and yet the players ranked him 5th and ahead of luck, other rankings show him ahead of luck, I said starting to, and I I did not say all yet.

He didn't say players, he said GMs.

We all love Wilson, but he is not as respected by GMs as he should be.

I know he said GMs and I do not agree there either at best I would say half.

 

[Anthony!]

Have you ever been wrong in your life?

yes numerous times and I admit it when I am, been wrong on this forum too, and admitted it.