Russell Wilson - MVP Discussion

[Smelly McUgly]

How would Romo, Rogers, Manning, and even terrific Tommy do with Wilson's O-Line in front of them.
Russell Wilson is doing it WITHOUT all those super flashy Receivers, or TE's.
Russell Wilson, and Marshawn Lynch ARE the World Champions Seahawks Offense.

This is the argument that people are making for Wilson being a serious MVP candidate. I hear variations on "Who are these nobodies he's even throwing to? Look how much pressure he's under when he does it. And he still has 4000+ combined yards and is having the best running QB year since Mike Vick played for the Falcons."

 

[sutz]

I just like that they are discussing more than just yards and TD passes when they try to crown someone. It's about what the player does for the team, and a lot of that might not show up in the stat sheets or the fantasy football ratings.

If you look at the Arizona game last night something comes into focus. Yes, we're a run first team. But AZ really had our running game shut down until RW and the TEs/WRs pried the field open. Beastquake 2.0 happened after the game was pretty much in hand, and until that time in the game, Marshawn wasn't getting much of anything done. So, in some ways, we actually set the run up with the pass last night.

Nice to see we can do both.

 

[Scottemojo]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

Well, that certainly eliminates Watt from the discussion. He throws even less than Russell.

 

[Rat]

I feel like it has to be Brady. I think the Pats are a 6-8 win team with a league average QB. What Brady continues to do year in and year out is ridiculous, and this is one of his best performances, even if the stats aren't where they were a few other years.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

Russell Wilson is 17th in the league in passing yards and 14th in the league in touchdown passes. He's also 31st in the league for most interceptions thrown.

He has a running back who is 3rd in the league in rushing yards and 1st in the league in touchdown runs.

He has another running back who is 15th in the league in both rushing yards and touchdown runs.

That's pretty impressive for a second running back, eh? Except it isn't a second running back; it's Russell Wilson himself. Yes, Russell Wilson is middle of the league for both quarterbacks and running backs. And that's a pretty impressive feat.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'd be happy if that discussion didn't spread too widely for now. Every time Wilson gets a whiff of MVP chatter, he seems to go in the cellar for a bit. Happened after last year's Saint's game and after this year's Redskins game. Call me superstitious.

I'm still waiting for that Madden Curse to jump up and cause Richard Sherman to have a terrible season.

He'll finish with fewer interceptions this season than he had last season.

MADDEN CURSE!!

 

[mikeak]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

Russell Wilson is 17th in the league in passing yards and 14th in the league in touchdown passes. He's also 31st in the league for most interceptions thrown.

He has a running back who is 3rd in the league in rushing yards and 1st in the league in touchdown runs.

He has another running back who is 15th in the league in both rushing yards and touchdown runs.

That's pretty impressive for a second running back, eh? Except it isn't a second running back; it's Russell Wilson himself. Yes, Russell Wilson is middle of the league for both quarterbacks and running backs. And that's a pretty impressive feat.

and last week they said that his leading WR on the team was 60th in the whole NFL on receiving yard

 

[Smellyman]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

While he does pass less you have to look at his whole body of work, just the stats alone are MVP worthy


4078 total yards (as of now), 26 tds, 6 turnovers.

Rw makes up over 70% of the total yards, and 69% of the tds

Compare to say Rodgers
4470 total yards, 37 tds, 6 turnovers

Rodgers makes up 74% of total yards and 73% of tds.

So Rws number are actually right up there and Rodgers had an easier schedule, better oline, great RB and much better WRs and is in a pass orientated offense, that showed last year without Rodgers they were still pretty good

Lets look at Romo

3467 total yards, 32 tds

Romo makes up 59% of total yards, 65% of total tds

In Romos case, better oline, much better WRs, easier schedule, and great RB

P Manning
4124 total yards, 37 tds

Manning makes up 79% of total yards, 77% of total tds

And manning has a much better oline, decent Rbs, great WR, pass happy offense and great defense and much much easier schedule

Brady
4070 total yards, 33 tds

Brady makes up 70% of total yards, and 70% of total tds
Brady has a much better oline, decent Rbs, better Wr, pass happy offense and much easier schedule

So as you can see Rw stacks up very well against them and given the difference in schedule and talent around them I think he is right in the mix.

Great post

 

[Hawkfanadam]

.

 

[PackerBacker19]

[b]Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.[/b]

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

I must respectfully disagree. Rodgers carries the Packers. The Seahawks have a great D and running game, while the Packers have struggled at times with both. Take Wilson off a team that has averaged allowing 6.6 points their last 5 games and the Seahawks could still win. Take Rodgers off the Packers and they are mediocre. Also, I'm not sure if there are people here thinking Rodgers was sub-par yesterday, but he went about 30 completions out of 40 attempts with a touchdown. He did this on a strained calf that was clearly limiting his mobility so I wouldn't say his performance was sub-par. Please Note: I am not by any means questioning Wilson's importance. He has been great this year. I just think Rodgers is worth more because of the talent or lack of talent around him.

Lack of talent around him really

lets see
his Wrs Nelson, and Cobb are way better than anyone the Hawks have
Rb Lacey a 1000 yard back, with 9 tds
the 15th ranked pass blocking oline compared to our 28th ranked

Sorry dude I like Rodgers but he has way more talent around him on offense then Rw does. And as was shown last year they can win without Rodgers and get to the playoffs, without Rw we do not make it to the playoffs.[/quote]

They only won 2 games without Rodgers last year. That's not great. Rodgers has more talent around him, but he does more with it. Rodgers has the best touchdown to int. ratio in NFL history. He has the highest passer rating average, and the highest single season passer rating average. He threw for more yards in first 100 starts than any other qb in history. Rodgers does more for his team, and it is because he is great. Look where Greg Jennings is now that he isn't in Green Bay, and look at James Jones. James Jones caught around 13 touchdowns a few years ago, but without Rodgers he just isn't that good. Last Year the Packers didn't win without Rodgers they lost several of their games. If you think Wilson is more important to his team than Rodgers look at 2011. In 2011 we had the one of the worst defenses in NFL history. I think it was the worst(not joking). We had no run game, and our o-line wasn't that good. Rodgers threw 45 tds and 6 ints., and we went 15-1...with maybe the worst defense ever. Rodgers means more. Wilson is great, but your guys running game is what runs the offense. Look at last year before Rodgers got injured. James Jones, Finley, and Randall Cobb were out. Rodgers was still playing great.

 

[Anthony!]

[b]Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.[/b]

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

I must respectfully disagree. Rodgers carries the Packers. The Seahawks have a great D and running game, while the Packers have struggled at times with both. Take Wilson off a team that has averaged allowing 6.6 points their last 5 games and the Seahawks could still win. Take Rodgers off the Packers and they are mediocre. Also, I'm not sure if there are people here thinking Rodgers was sub-par yesterday, but he went about 30 completions out of 40 attempts with a touchdown. He did this on a strained calf that was clearly limiting his mobility so I wouldn't say his performance was sub-par. Please Note: I am not by any means questioning Wilson's importance. He has been great this year. I just think Rodgers is worth more because of the talent or lack of talent around him.

Lack of talent around him really

lets see
his Wrs Nelson, and Cobb are way better than anyone the Hawks have
Rb Lacey a 1000 yard back, with 9 tds
the 15th ranked pass blocking oline compared to our 28th ranked

Sorry dude I like Rodgers but he has way more talent around him on offense then Rw does. And as was shown last year they can win without Rodgers and get to the playoffs, without Rw we do not make it to the playoffs.[/quote]

They only won 2 games without Rodgers last year. That's not great. Rodgers has more talent around him, but he does more with it. Rodgers has the best touchdown to int. ratio in NFL history. He has the highest passer rating average, and the highest single season passer rating average. He threw for more yards in first 100 starts than any other qb in history. Rodgers does more for his team, and it is because he is great. Look where Greg Jennings is now that he isn't in Green Bay, and look at James Jones. James Jones caught around 13 touchdowns a few years ago, but without Rodgers he just isn't that good. Last Year the Packers didn't win without Rodgers they lost several of their games. If you think Wilson is more important to his team than Rodgers look at 2011. In 2011 we had the one of the worst defenses in NFL history. I think it was the worst(not joking). We had no run game, and our o-line wasn't that good. Rodgers threw 45 tds and 6 ints., and we went 15-1...with maybe the worst defense ever. Rodgers means more. Wilson is great, but your guys running game is what runs the offense. Look at last year before Rodgers got injured. James Jones, Finley, and Randall Cobb were out. Rodgers was still playing great.

That's all great but since you admitted he has more talent around him game over, you cannot prove that Wilson could not have done more with that talent so game over. thanks, FYI it is 2014 not 2011 so irrelevant. Rodgers has done a lot however he has a lot of talent around him to do it. Give Wilson that talent and he does what Rodgers does and maybe more.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Yes, 2011 Aaron Rodgers should totally be in this year's MVP discussion. He's a lock.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

Yeah, I'd go with Rodgers. He's the awesomest of the conventional QBs.

Russell is a different breed of cat. They haven't figured out what kind of trinket to give to a special dude like him. "Most Kickass" would be apt, but moms and communists wouldn't allow it.

 

[PackerBacker19]

That's all great but since you admitted he has more talent around him game over, you cannot prove that Wilson could not have done more with that talent so game over. thanks, FYI it is 2014 not 2011 so irrelevant. Rodgers has done a lot however he has a lot of talent around him to do it. Give Wilson that talent and he does what Rodgers does and maybe more.[/quote]



Ok, well 2014 is relevant. Rodgers has a better qb rating, more touchdowns, less interceptions, higher completion percentage in 2014. Touchdowns could be more for Rodgers because he throws more. What about completion percentage, interceptions, and qb rating in 2014? You can't prove Wilson could do better than Aaron Rodgers with the same talent. Remember Aaron Rodgers is pretty good. When he retires he may be considered the best at his position, so to say Wilson could do the same as Rodgers or better with the same amount of talent is not something you can prove. Ultimately, it doesn't matter this year. Rodgers should be MVP because he has better numbers, and his team needs him more.

 

[dontbelikethat]

I personally would vote Watt, but I definitely would be fine with Rodgers getting it too. Rodgers does have better offensive cast than Wilson, but Wilson definitely has a better overall team than Rodgers. The defense takes a lot of pressure off of the offense and the SEA ST has always been good so combing that with the D, that field position game is also making an impact. Although obviously an offensive supporting cast directly helps a QB, lets not act like the other phases of the game don't impact each other significantly (ie. SEA's D was dying during SD game when SEA O had no TOP, also last game against Cards where we killed them by fighting 12 rounds instead of the KO). Don't know too much about Packers ST aside from Cobb being a good KR/PR.

Both are great QB's, but dude has a point when he says Rodgers is pretty much their entire offense (WR's are useless if QB sucks and I'm not really that much of a fan of Lacy) and I would even go as far as to say that almost all of their success as a team is pretty much predicated on him. There's so many components to SEA's game that I understand why someone would think Rodgers is more valuable to his team than Wilson is to his. I mean even if Wilson has a bad game, as long as Lynch does what he does and the D plays as usual, that still should be a very winnable game for SEA, don't know if I could say the same for Rodgers. Btw can't also dismiss Wilson's rushing attack. Rodgers may be more valuable to his team in terms of wins and losses, but I also think Wilson is severely undervalued in terms of perception on what he means to this team. His passing efficiency along with his legs (dual threat) opens up this offense like crazy.

This team is just too damn good.

 

[Anthony!]

That's all great but since you admitted he has more talent around him game over, you cannot prove that Wilson could not have done more with that talent so game over. thanks, FYI it is 2014 not 2011 so irrelevant. Rodgers has done a lot however he has a lot of talent around him to do it. Give Wilson that talent and he does what Rodgers does and maybe more.

Ok, well 2014 is relevant. Rodgers has a better qb rating, more touchdowns, less interceptions, higher completion percentage in 2014. Touchdowns could be more for Rodgers because he throws more. What about completion percentage, interceptions, and qb rating in 2014? You can't prove Wilson could do better than Aaron Rodgers with the same talent. Remember Aaron Rodgers is pretty good. When he retires he may be considered the best at his position, so to say Wilson could do the same as Rodgers or better with the same amount of talent is not something you can prove. Ultimately, it doesn't matter this year. Rodgers should be MVP because he has better numbers, and his team needs him more.[/quote]

Rodgers has a better wr corps, better oline, easier schedule, pass orientated offense. So far you really have not said anything, yes he has better numbers and he has way better talent around him on offense. I do not think he should win it there are guys with just as good stats who have done it with less. Oh and FYI We need Wilson as much if not more than they need Rodgers. As long as we are talking MVP, who has more rushing tds, more rushing yards, higher ypa rushing? You see we are talking MVP so all stats count not just the passing ones. Oh and FYI Wilson has 6 to, so does Rodgers he had 1 lost fumble as well.

In fact lets look at total impact

Rodgers 4470 total yards, 37 tds, 6 TOs, he makes up 74% of his teams total yards, and 73% of his teams total TDs
Rw 4078 yards, 26 tds, 6 TOs, and he makes up 70% of his teams total yards and 69% of his teams total tds

Hmm so other than total TDs its close, and the % of total team is very close, except, Rodgers has the better oline, better WR, a great Rb(like Wilson), is in a pass happy offense and having faced teams with an avg total defense ranking of 17th, and avg passing defense ranking of 17th. both easier than what Wilson faced. So yes his numbers, specifically TDs are higher but he also has much better weapons and an easier schedule.


I would not pick Rodgers, if I could not pick Wilson I would go Brady he has done more with less.

 

[RunTheBall]

You could make arguments for a lot of players such as Watt, Romo, Murray, Rodgers, Brady or Wilson. I'd lean towards Romo though at the moment.

 

[Anthony!]

I personally would vote Watt, but I definitely would be fine with Rodgers getting it too. Rodgers does have better offensive cast than Wilson, but Wilson definitely has a better overall team than Rodgers. The defense takes a lot of pressure off of the offense and the SEA ST has always been good so combing that with the D, that field position game is also making an impact. Although obviously an offensive supporting cast directly helps a QB, lets not act like the other phases of the game don't impact each other significantly (ie. SEA's D was dying during SD game when SEA O had no TOP, also last game against Cards where we killed them by fighting 12 rounds instead of the KO). Don't know too much about Packers ST aside from Cobb being a good KR/PR.

Both are great QB's, but dude has a point when he says Rodgers is pretty much their entire offense (WR's are useless if QB sucks and I'm not really that much of a fan of Lacy) and I would even go as far as to say that almost all of their success as a team is pretty much predicated on him. There's so many components to SEA's game that I understand why someone would think Rodgers is more valuable to his team than Wilson is to his. I mean even if Wilson has a bad game, as long as Lynch does what he does and the D plays as usual, that still should be a very winnable game for SEA, don't know if I could say the same for Rodgers.

This team is just too damn good.

Your opinion, however by stating you not a fan of Lacey you make it obvious that it is an opinion of emotion not fact. Lacey is a top 10 Rb (7th in yards and has 9 tds and avg a higher YPA than Lynch. Also GB Wr are very very good and have shown it even without Rodgers. Last year both Wrs had several great games even without Rodgers as their QB as did Lacey. Lacey Avg over 80 YPG while Rodgers was out and as a rookie. Nelson Avg over 60 ypg while Rodgers was out(that would give him over 1000 yards in a season), Jones who was on the team last year avg over 53 YPG while Rodgers was out. So sorry the RB and those Wr are really good with or without Rodgers and in the case of the WR way better than anything we have. Yes our defense helps but to make a point about field position GB avg starting field position this year is 28 yard line, ours 31 yards line, so our great defense is getting us 3 more yards of field position than GB. You see you are forgetting GB has a better kick and punt returner than we do. So sorry Rodgers is great, but it is easy to be when you have that much talent around you. Imagine if Wilson had those Wrs, and that oline and that offense.

 

[Anthony!]

You could make arguments for a lot of players such as Watt, Romo, Murray, Rodgers, Brady or Wilson. I'd lean towards Romo though at the moment.

Fair although how can you lean toward Romo and still have Murray as an MVP candidate. Truthfully, if I had to choose and knowing Wilson will not be it, due to perception or actually misperception, I would go with Brady he has done more with less.

 

[Anthony!]

You know guys the point of this whole thing is, Rodger is not open and shut by any means, neither is Romo, Murray, Watt, Brandy or Wilson, I great case can be made for and against all of them. For me I look at who did more with less and against better competition and to me that means Brady or Wilson. But as I said an equally strong case can be made for all of them.