Russell Wilson - MVP Discussion

[SalishHawkFan]

I was just watching ESPN with Ron Jaworski and Herm Edwards discussing who should be the league MVP and I was surprised to see Jaws pick Russell Wilson with Edwards pretty much agreeing with him. Jaworski's argument was that Wilson does a lot of things that don't show up in the stats to help his team win. He said he has catalogued every one of Wilson's plays this year and on "out of structure" plays (scrambles and passes or scrambles and runs) he averages about 9.5 yards per play. He said the OL is mediocre, the WRs are not great (very little separation) and there are games the Seahawks wouldn't have been in that they won because of Russell Wilson and his ability to make plays out of nothing. He also said that Wilson understands winning and does whatever is necessary to help his team win. Edward's agreed but also said that Wilson probably wouldn't win it because he's not a volume passer and doesn't put up the big fantasy passing numbers that the public and media look for.

Also this from Peter King in his MVP rankings:

4. Russell Wilson, QB, Seattle. Another quarterback making his debut in my top five. He ran and passed the Seahawks over Arizona on Sunday night in his usual Cool Hand Luke way. Now Seattle and New England are neck and neck for the best team in football. Wilson is the biggest reason for the Seahawks’ recent rise.

Nice to see Wilson in the discussion even though I agree he won't get it because he doesn't put up big fantasy passing numbers which is how QBs are judged by a lot of people these days.

He also posted this stat:

........................................ ...............Russell Wilson ......Tom Brady ......Peyton Manning
W-L since Wilson entered NFL ............39-13 ...................38-13 ................39-11
2014 yards (passing+rushing) ..............4,078 ...................4,077 .................4,124

Rushing also adds to fantasy stats and I think the media is starting to realize that for Wilson, it makes up for the lack of passing yardage.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

I'm curious...how does a QB become a contender for MVP when he wasn't even voted into the Pro Bowl?

 

[Kakaww]

We all watch Russell and understand how special he is. It is fairly obvious why he is not thought to be on the same level as several other quarterbacks using traditional perceptions. That's ok! With a few exceptions, we have suffered through an undistinguished list of unremarkable signal callers. When you contrast his performance and look at the teams success, his value is clear. Without him, we are the Rams, Panthers or Cardinals. With him, we are the champs and on target for the number 1 seed again.

It shouldn't be important that the world recognizes Wilson is better than Rodgers, Luck or Brady. Let those guys rack up the individual accolades while we cram 700,000 onto 4th ave again this year.

 

[Blitzer88]

I think Rogers wins it easily. But it will be interesting to see how things play out.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Rodgers, Romo, and Brady would not get as much done as Wilson does behind our pass protection. I only wish we could prove it for the world to see.

 

[Mick063]

Why all the national talk about Romo?

Because the Dallas fans and local press are pushing it hard. They "get it". Anyone with a lick of sense knows that it is Murray that pushed them past 8-8.

This is why I have a tough time with the apologists here for Wilson. You see......it isn't really about the most valuable player. It more closely approximates texting the winner for American Idol.

Idealistic you say? Want to express your conscious?

Two things:

1) Wilson for MVP has actual merit
2) This isn't a level playing field. When has the Miss America pageant ever been a level playing field? This is politics, not jury duty.

The bottom line is that this is about helping to make your quarterback "legendary". Do you want Russell to be remembered like Joe Montana or not? Like I said....Dallas fans "get it". They are experienced at such things. We obviously, are not.

 

[Anthony!]

Your opinion, however by stating you not a fan of Lacey you make it obvious that it is an opinion of emotion not fact. Lacey is a top 10 Rb (7th in yards and has 9 tds and avg a higher YPA than Lynch.

Just cause I'm not a fan of Lacy, that's all based on emotion lol? I' m not saying he sucks, but I definitely don't think he's that great either. Lynch is a far superior player to Lacy imo and actually they have the same YPC/YPA (4.7). That being said, you can't base everything on stats alone. Context plays a HUGE part also (and that's the thing, it can be subjective). I mean Jamaal Charles is #11 in rushing and Lacy has him beat in almost every stat category aside from YPC, and pretty much anyone not a homer would obviously take Charles > Lacy.

Also GB Wr are very very good and have shown it even without Rodgers. Last year both Wrs had several great games even without Rodgers as their QB as did Lacey. Lacey Avg over 80 YPG while Rodgers was out and as a rookie. Nelson Avg over 60 ypg while Rodgers was out(that would give him over 1000 yards in a season), Jones who was on the team last year avg over 53 YPG while Rodgers was out. So sorry the RB and those Wr are really good with or without Rodgers and in the case of the WR way better than anything we have.

When Rodgers was out, Packers went 2-5-1, when he wasn't out, they went 6-2. That's a pretty big discrepancy and that alone shows he definitely has great importance (can't compare anything to Wilson obviously since he's started every game for the past 3 seasons), but we can go into more player stats. When Rodgers was out Lacy was about the same (4.1YPC, 80YPG as you say, some terrible games,and some really good games) and with Rodgers out I would expect him to get a bigger load, that's fine though. No change for Lacy and sure top 10 RB, but definitely some space between him and say the likes of Lynch,McCoy,Peterson,Murray,Charles,Foster, etc. could even argue Bell (#2 rushing), Hill, Morris, Forte, etc.

Again, context is very important. You argue James Jones had 50 YPG after Rodgers was out, well there's a very good explanation for that. When Rodgers was still playing, Jones was the #3 receiver behind Cobb and Nelson, when Rodgers went out Cobb also went out which elevated Jones to #2. That explains the rise in his stats because obviously he he had a bigger role in the offense as the #2 receiver.

Now we can keep going. Again, I want to make sure it's understood I NEVER SAID THESE PLAYERS ARE BAD. I'm just saying Rodgers has great importance on the success to the team. Can Nelson still put up a decent game without Rodgers, sure, but can he but up better stats with Rodgers? I believe so.

Nelson avged 60 YPG in the 8 game span that Rodgers was out. That's alright. I'll keep it simple to show that Rodgers definitely elevates the play.

8 Games Rodgers was out, Nelson WR yards: 504
8 Games Rodgers was in: Nelson WR yards: 810, and that's 100YPG.

Would like to reiterate, again, I want to make sure it's understood I NEVER SAID THESE PLAYERS ARE BAD. I'm just saying Rodgers has great importance on the success to the team. (Rodgers was out, Packers went 2-5-1, when he wasn't out, they went 6-2)

Yes our defense helps but to make a point about field position GB avg starting field position this year is 28 yard line, ours 31 yards line, so our great defense is getting us 3 more yards of field position than GB. You see you are forgetting GB has a better kick and punt returner than we do. So sorry Rodgers is great, but it is easy to be when you have that much talent around you. Imagine if Wilson had those Wrs, and that oline and that offense.

I did acknowledge that GB has a good KR/PR game, mentioned that I didn't know much about Packers ST beside from Cobb being a good KR/PR (and even you can agree that when we had Tate like in 2013, our field position game was stupid crazy). The role of a defense doesn't only play a part on field position, the defense does many things for a team and it would be naive to think that field position is all they do (and even then SEA still has it better). SEA's was on historic levels allowed significantly lower PPG,YPG,etc.

You can't seriously diminish what this defense means to this team and at the same time expect me to believe all this defense is good for is 3 yards better in starting field position compared to the Packers. Cmon now, we all know it means a lot more than that.

so given the fact I already showed you why pretty much everything you are posting is wrong, and I even put out an olive branch and you refused to take it I am just going with your wrong and making it the end. Nothing you wrote changes the fact Wilson is just as deserving as Rodgers and has done it with way less.

My entire premise on the second post is nothing about Wilson > Rodgers or Rodgers > Wilson in terms of VALUE TO THEIR TEAM. I already stated on my first post that I COULD UNDERSTAND how someone could believe Rodgers > Wilson in terms of value to the team, but I'm not saying it is, just that I could understand. All I was arguing was that Rodgers definitely does impact the team while you were trying to diminish his value that and say he doesn't an impact or doesn't have a big impact on GB. RE-READ YOUR OWN POST lmao, all you did was try to diminish Rodgers value by saying he doesn't have an impact on the squad (Lacy is still good w/o him, WR's are still good w/o him).

All I needed to post was this "When Rodgers was out, Packers went 2-5-1, when he wasn't out, they went 6-2" and that alone shows that Rodgers has impact on the team, but even then I showed stats to prove that you're wrong. You spent the entire post responding to my initial post saying trying to diminish his value, I proved you wrong.

All you're saying "you're wrong, I'm right" lmao. I explained everything in my post to show how you're "facts" are interpreted incorrectly and even showed stats to prove you wrong.

Anyone who had read anything in the past from you about Wilson knows you're the biggest homer and anyone who's read anything in this thread and is at the least bit objective can tell that you need to just take a break from posting. "so given the fact I already showed you why pretty much everything you are posting is wrong, and I even put out an olive branch and you refused to take it I am just going with your wrong and making it the end. Nothing you wrote changes the fact Rodgers is just as deserving as Wilson and has done it with way less." (threw in some minor changes in there for you)

I never said Rodgers does not impact his team, or is not important, I just think he is less important to his team than Wilson, because of all the talent around him. As to showing me why everything I posted is wrong, to bad I showed why everything you posted is wrong and what I posted was right. I also never said Rodgers was not deserving, just I think Wilson is more deserving. It has little to do with homerism, it is just plain fact.

 

[Largent80]

doe snot

Buck Shank

 

[dopeboy206]

Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

MVP should never, ever, ever be anyone but a QB.

Shaun Alexander says hi....

 

[Smellyman]

Romo great oline, great receiver, great TE, great RB....MVP candidate to the media and fasn

Russell Wilson pedestrian OL, Pedestrian WR's, Great RB......Not an MVP candidate to themedia and fans because he would be nothing without ML......

 

[Rainger]

They wont even vote him to the Pro Bowl and many "journalists" agreed with that. So if Romo and Rothlesburger are "better" than him and in Pro Bowl MVP is just not in the discussion.

 

[Anthony!]

They wont even vote him to the Pro Bowl and many "journalists" agreed with that. So if Romo and Rothlesburger are "better" than him and in Pro Bowl MVP is just not in the discussion.

Hmm most of the journalist and analyst I have read and watched think he should have been and in fact NFL network asked the fans and Wilson and OBJ were the top 2 snubs. The reality is if we do not get to the SB he will be in the Pro bowl as you know one of the others will either decide not to go, or be in the SB

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Wait, is this the same Jaws who insisted Russ was a "limited quarterback"?

If he watches as much film as he claims to, he can't help but eventually change his mind. Too many OMG, difference-making plays jump off of the screen.

 

[dontbelikethat]

I never said Rodgers does not impact his team, or is not important, I just think he is less important to his team than Wilson, because of all the talent around him. As to showing me why everything I posted is wrong, to bad I showed why everything you posted is wrong and what I posted was right. I also never said Rodgers was not deserving, just I think Wilson is more deserving. It has little to do with homerism, it is just plain fact.

Really lmao, now you're back tracking. Go ahead and re-read your own post. Tell me how anything you said in here is comparing Rodgers to Wilson, all I see is you do is trying to diminish Rodgers' value. There's not even a single thing about Wilson in this entire post of yours that I was responding to in which you responded to me. It's just plain fact.

Btw have you ever posted in a thread or made a comment related to the Seahawks that wasn't about Wilson in some way? Like you do know this team has 52 other players right? I'm semi-srs.

Your opinion, however by stating you not a fan of Lacey you make it obvious that it is an opinion of emotion not fact. Lacey is a top 10 Rb (7th in yards and has 9 tds and avg a higher YPA than Lynch. Also GB Wr are very very good and have shown it even without Rodgers. Last year both Wrs had several great games even without Rodgers as their QB as did Lacey. Lacey Avg over 80 YPG while Rodgers was out and as a rookie. Nelson Avg over 60 ypg while Rodgers was out(that would give him over 1000 yards in a season), Jones who was on the team last year avg over 53 YPG while Rodgers was out. So sorry the RB and those Wr are really good with or without Rodgers and in the case of the WR way better than anything we have. Yes our defense helps but to make a point about field position GB avg starting field position this year is 28 yard line, ours 31 yards line, so our great defense is getting us 3 more yards of field position than GB. You see you are forgetting GB has a better kick and punt returner than we do. So sorry Rodgers is great, but it is easy to be when you have that much talent around you. Imagine if Wilson had those Wrs, and that oline and that offense.

It's funny because you never even responded to my points on the post above, but hey, I'll use your logic still, you're wrong, I'm right. I used facts to prove you wrong, everything you tried to rebut with, I've also proved wrong. Debate over, you're wrong. Am I doing it right?

 

[253hawk]

I'm curious...how does a QB become a contender for MVP when he wasn't even voted into the Pro Bowl?

MVP is a media-recognized award voted on by 50 AP members and that's it. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest based on internet fan voting with virtually no limit.

 

[Anthony!]

I never said Rodgers does not impact his team, or is not important, I just think he is less important to his team than Wilson, because of all the talent around him. As to showing me why everything I posted is wrong, to bad I showed why everything you posted is wrong and what I posted was right. I also never said Rodgers was not deserving, just I think Wilson is more deserving. It has little to do with homerism, it is just plain fact.

Really lmao, now you're back tracking. Go ahead and re-read your own post. Tell me how anything you said in here is comparing Rodgers to Wilson, all I see is you do is trying to diminish Rodgers' value. There's not even a single thing about Wilson in this entire post of yours that I was responding to in which you responded to me. It's just plain fact.

Btw have you ever posted in a thread or made a comment related to the Seahawks that wasn't about Wilson in some way? Like you do know this team has 52 other players right? I'm semi-srs.

Your opinion, however by stating you not a fan of Lacey you make it obvious that it is an opinion of emotion not fact. Lacey is a top 10 Rb (7th in yards and has 9 tds and avg a higher YPA than Lynch. Also GB Wr are very very good and have shown it even without Rodgers. Last year both Wrs had several great games even without Rodgers as their QB as did Lacey. Lacey Avg over 80 YPG while Rodgers was out and as a rookie. Nelson Avg over 60 ypg while Rodgers was out(that would give him over 1000 yards in a season), Jones who was on the team last year avg over 53 YPG while Rodgers was out. So sorry the RB and those Wr are really good with or without Rodgers and in the case of the WR way better than anything we have. Yes our defense helps but to make a point about field position GB avg starting field position this year is 28 yard line, ours 31 yards line, so our great defense is getting us 3 more yards of field position than GB. You see you are forgetting GB has a better kick and punt returner than we do. So sorry Rodgers is great, but it is easy to be when you have that much talent around you. Imagine if Wilson had those Wrs, and that oline and that offense.

It's funny because you never even responded to my points on the post above, but hey, I'll use your logic still, you're wrong, I'm right. I used facts to prove you wrong, everything you tried to rebut with, I've also proved wrong. Debate over, you're wrong. Am I doing it right?

Its funny because you never responded to my original facts other than top say they were wrong but offered no proof. When you do then I will consider replying to yours until then nope. Fact Rodgers has more talent around him, fact he had an easier schedule. Those are facts that cannot be disputed and as such make my stance correct. Thanks for playing.

 

[dontbelikethat]

I never said Rodgers does not impact his team, or is not important, I just think he is less important to his team than Wilson, because of all the talent around him. As to showing me why everything I posted is wrong, to bad I showed why everything you posted is wrong and what I posted was right. I also never said Rodgers was not deserving, just I think Wilson is more deserving. It has little to do with homerism, it is just plain fact.

Really lmao, now you're back tracking. Go ahead and re-read your own post. Tell me how anything you said in here is comparing Rodgers to Wilson, all I see is you do is trying to diminish Rodgers' value. There's not even a single thing about Wilson in this entire post of yours that I was responding to in which you responded to me. It's just plain fact.

Btw have you ever posted in a thread or made a comment related to the Seahawks that wasn't about Wilson in some way? Like you do know this team has 52 other players right? I'm semi-srs.

Your opinion, however by stating you not a fan of Lacey you make it obvious that it is an opinion of emotion not fact. Lacey is a top 10 Rb (7th in yards and has 9 tds and avg a higher YPA than Lynch. Also GB Wr are very very good and have shown it even without Rodgers. Last year both Wrs had several great games even without Rodgers as their QB as did Lacey. Lacey Avg over 80 YPG while Rodgers was out and as a rookie. Nelson Avg over 60 ypg while Rodgers was out(that would give him over 1000 yards in a season), Jones who was on the team last year avg over 53 YPG while Rodgers was out. So sorry the RB and those Wr are really good with or without Rodgers and in the case of the WR way better than anything we have. Yes our defense helps but to make a point about field position GB avg starting field position this year is 28 yard line, ours 31 yards line, so our great defense is getting us 3 more yards of field position than GB. You see you are forgetting GB has a better kick and punt returner than we do. So sorry Rodgers is great, but it is easy to be when you have that much talent around you. Imagine if Wilson had those Wrs, and that oline and that offense.

It's funny because you never even responded to my points on the post above, but hey, I'll use your logic still, you're wrong, I'm right. I used facts to prove you wrong, everything you tried to rebut with, I've also proved wrong. Debate over, you're wrong. Am I doing it right?

Its funny because you never responded to my original facts other than top say they were wrong but offered no proof. When you do then I will consider replying to yours until then nope. Fact Rodgers has more talent around him, fact he had an easier schedule. Those are facts that cannot be disputed and as such make my stance correct. Thanks for playing.

What do you mean respond to your original facts? I responded to everything you replied to me with. You just don't want to reply to any my points which disproved your points. I love how you're back tracking and not responding to any valid points, but just keep trying to say you're right, that just shows how wrong you are, but I digress lulzzzzzz. Thanks for playing.

But really, answer this:

Have you ever posted in a thread or made a comment related to the Seahawks that wasn't about Wilson in some way? Like you do know this team has 52 other players right? I'm semi-srs.

 

[rain7]

Wilson is not on discount double checks level - put down the bottle if you think that. If Rodgers was on this team, we're easily a 14 win team, simple as that.

Wilson is a still a stud though, perhaps proving himself to be a top 5 qb in his 3rd year is incredibly impressive.

Rodgers is 1, Brady a tad bit behind and a drop off to whoever 3 is.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Wilson is not on discount double checks level - put down the bottle if you think that. If Rodgers was on this team, we're easily a 14 win team, simple as that.

Wilson is a still a stud though, perhaps proving himself to be a top 5 qb in his 3rd year is incredibly impressive.

Rodgers is 1, Brady a tad bit behind and a drop off to whoever 3 is.

We could of easily been a 14 win team this year with Wilson as well. KC and St. Lois games come to mind, those games were just bad officiating against our guys.

 

[Anthony!]

Wilson is not on discount double checks level - put down the bottle if you think that. If Rodgers was on this team, we're easily a 14 win team, simple as that.

Wilson is a still a stud though, perhaps proving himself to be a top 5 qb in his 3rd year is incredibly impressive.

Rodgers is 1, Brady a tad bit behind and a drop off to whoever 3 is.

Hate to bust your bubble but Rodgers on this team does not get us 14 wins. Like all QBs Rodgers has had ups and downs and on this team he still would have had them and perhaps more given he would have less talent around him, and be playing a much tougher schedule. I mean he has played 4 top 10 pass defenses and is 2-2 against them, with a better oline and better WRs. His combined Passer rating was 90. Wilson has played 5 top 10 pass defenses and is 3-2 with a worse oline and worse Wrs. HIs combined QB rating in those games was 103.