Russell Wilson - MVP Discussion

[MidwestHawker]

Houston Texas is a Watt away from being in the hunt for Mariotta

You seriously think that he's worth 6+ wins more than he was last year? I think that's borderline impossible, since he was already awesome last year.

Confused - how does last year's performance impact this years? They had better qb play last year and they started off as a really good team up until about 3 quarters of the Seahawks game.

They are worse on the qb side this year and yeah I think they are winning games solely based on what he does and what he does to the other players on that defense. Go look at Flacco's qb rating yesterday. That starts with Watt

The reference to last year is just central to my point that elite play by a defensive player isn't the type of thing that actually wins you games the same way elite play by a quarterback is. Again, high-level play by a top QB never results in 2-14 the way last year's awesome season by Watt did; it's a statement on just what his ultimate level of impact on wins and losses is.

None of this is any disrespect to Watt. I think he's the best defensive player in football by miles and I really think he could go down as the greatest of all time. I just don't think you would see Houston's pointspreads slip 7 points in a negative direction if Watt was lost to injuries. Just like last year with Green Bay, you would absolutely see that with the best QB in the league that year (whoever it is) go down.

 

[Anthony!]

[b]Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.[/b]

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

I must respectfully disagree. Rodgers carries the Packers. The Seahawks have a great D and running game, while the Packers have struggled at times with both. Take Wilson off a team that has averaged allowing 6.6 points their last 5 games and the Seahawks could still win. Take Rodgers off the Packers and they are mediocre. Also, I'm not sure if there are people here thinking Rodgers was sub-par yesterday, but he went about 30 completions out of 40 attempts with a touchdown. He did this on a strained calf that was clearly limiting his mobility so I wouldn't say his performance was sub-par. Please Note: I am not by any means questioning Wilson's importance. He has been great this year. I just think Rodgers is worth more because of the talent or lack of talent around him.

Lack of talent around him really

lets see
his Wrs Nelson, and Cobb are way better than anyone the Hawks have
Rb Lacey a 1000 yard back, with 9 tds
the 15th ranked pass blocking oline compared to our 28th ranked

Sorry dude I like Rodgers but he has way more talent around him on offense then Rw does. And as was shown last year they can win without Rodgers and get to the playoffs, without Rw we do not make it to the playoffs.

 

[seahawkfreak]

Houston Texas is a Watt away from being in the hunt for Mariotta

You seriously think that he's worth 6+ wins more than he was last year? I think that's borderline impossible, since he was already awesome last year.

Confused - how does last year's performance impact this years? They had better qb play last year and they started off as a really good team up until about 3 quarters of the Seahawks game.

They are worse on the qb side this year and yeah I think they are winning games solely based on what he does and what he does to the other players on that defense. Go look at Flacco's qb rating yesterday. That starts with Watt

I think your wrong about Houston's QB play last year compared to this year. It is not very good this year but at least it's not atrocious.

 

[SonicHawk]

JJ Watt is the all-around MVP, he's having a ridiculous season.

Houston is getting better QB play in terms of not throwing the ball to the defense.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

DeMarco Murray because without his running Romo is still Romo and they're a 9-7 kind of team. Actually Scott Linehan should be the MVP cuz he actually calls the plays and FINALLY has them running the ball a lot as they should have for the last several years. Doesn't hurt that they have that good o-line and Murray's been healthy too.

 

[Anthony!]

Rw should be in the discussion and have a shot but will not all you need to do is go to ESPN, Sportsline, or listen to most of the experts and despite how great he was last night, all anyone wants to talk about is Lynch. Note I said MOST there are some who get it but not many. I mean I loved the Lynch run but in the end it did not matter. I mean the guy had over 400 yards of offense himself and most experts do not even want to talk about it.

It is a weird double standard. I mean Rodgers has 2 of the best Wr in the league, a 1000 yard RB and top 15 pass blocking oline but it is all about him

Manning has a great defense, top 5 pass blocking oline, a top 3 wr corps and it is all him

Brady a top 2 TE, a top 15 wr corps. a top 15 pass blocking oline but its all him

RW has a 28th ranked pas blocking oline, great RB, avg at best Wr, great defense, plays against the toughest defenses the most, and it is all about everyone else but him.

I mean on ESPN NFL insiders they were saying the whole thing was about Lynch, really except for 1 run that did not matter he has 33 yards and a 3.77 ypa. Again I love Lynch, but really in this game it is all about him?

That is why Rw will never win the MVP or really get the credit he deserves. Even in a game were Rw was the offense, he gets little credit from most of the experts

 

[Tical21]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

MVP should never, ever, ever be anyone but a QB. Watt was incredible last year and the team still went 2-14, which says a lot about the relative value of his position; an elite QB having a great season never possibly finishes 2-14.

Watt could very well end up going down as the greatest defensive player in NFL history, and should still never get a single vote for MVP.

I disagree, though I see your POV.

Watt has carried a team playing Case Keenum at QB at points this year to a last-game chance to make the playoffs. Opponents are triple-teaming him at some points - he's opened up the field for the WHOLE REST OF HIS DEFENSE.

There are times - rare times - where you can give MVP to a dominant DE, CB, WR, or RB in my opinion. This is one of those times.

 

[Ozzy]

There is no way Watt is the MVP. His defense isn't even a top 15 defense on a losing team. I also don't agree with the argument that it can't be Wilson because he throws less than the other top guys. You leave out his legs/rushing numbers and I don't see a good reason why you would do that.

It's extremely hard not to pick a QB as has already been stated. I think WIlson is probably 2nd or third if I was voting. Probably lean towards Romo at the moment.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is no way Watt is the MVP. His defense isn't even a top 15 defense on a losing team.

I wouldn't say no way, Rodgers will win, but I betcha Watt comes in 2nd.

Cortez Kennedy won Defensive Player of the Year on a 2-14 Hawk team, so players absolutely get consideration and respect for great years.

 

[Anthony!]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

While he does pass less you have to look at his whole body of work, just the stats alone are MVP worthy


4078 total yards (as of now), 26 tds, 6 turnovers.

Rw makes up over 70% of the total yards, and 69% of the tds

Compare to say Rodgers
4470 total yards, 37 tds, 6 turnovers

Rodgers makes up 74% of total yards and 73% of tds.

So Rws number are actually right up there and Rodgers had an easier schedule, better oline, great RB and much better WRs and is in a pass orientated offense, that showed last year without Rodgers they were still pretty good

Lets look at Romo

3467 total yards, 32 tds

Romo makes up 59% of total yards, 65% of total tds

In Romos case, better oline, much better WRs, easier schedule, and great RB

P Manning
4124 total yards, 37 tds

Manning makes up 79% of total yards, 77% of total tds

And manning has a much better oline, decent Rbs, great WR, pass happy offense and great defense and much much easier schedule

Brady
4070 total yards, 33 tds

Brady makes up 70% of total yards, and 70% of total tds
Brady has a much better oline, decent Rbs, better Wr, pass happy offense and much easier schedule

So as you can see Rw stacks up very well against them and given the difference in schedule and talent around them I think he is right in the mix.

 

[scutterhawk]

Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

What pisses me off the most about "stats", is that it's like a clouded mirror ,you're not getting the real.
And as for JJ Watt?, I agree wholeheartedly.
It's just a sad to see his extraordinary feats being wasted down there.

 

[DavidSeven]

I personally don't believe you can be asked to pass less often than everybody else and be deserving of the MVP award. Not saying Russell isn't the best, just that he isn't the most valuable.

My vote would probably go to Rodgers, but I don't think it's right to ignore Russell's rush production (842 yards so far!).

He's actually producing more offense (pass + run) than Brady and Romo and just a few hundred below Rodgers.

 

[scutterhawk]

Wait, is this the same Jaws who insisted Russ was a "limited quarterback"?

Yep, but if you keep getting hit with a bunch of right crosses, you learn to rethink your defensive strategies. :mrgreen:

 

[scutterhawk]

I realize that other positions do win it, but it's always an error when they do.
You would never, ever see that with a defender going down..

It's your opinion that's in error, and here's why, the Quarterbacks that are playing against the Defenses without guys of Watt's calibur, will often have an easier time of putting up the numbers on that team.
And as far as never ever seeing a win/loss of importance when a defender goes down? disagree wholeheartedly, as seeing how our Defense had to re-think when Bobby Wagner went down...There were some losses BECAUSE of his absence.
Next man up doesn't always mean next man up to that players same level of play.

 

[scutterhawk]

Rw should be in the discussion and have a shot but will not all you need to do is go to ESPN, Sportsline, or listen to most of the experts and despite how great he was last night, all anyone wants to talk about is Lynch. Note I said MOST there are some who get it but not many. I mean I loved the Lynch run but in the end it did not matter. I mean the guy had over 400 yards of offense himself and most experts do not even want to talk about it.

It is a weird double standard. I mean Rodgers has 2 of the best Wr in the league, a 1000 yard RB and top 15 pass blocking oline but it is all about him

Manning has a great defense, top 5 pass blocking oline, a top 3 wr corps and it is all him

Brady a top 2 TE, a top 15 wr corps. a top 15 pass blocking oline but its all him

RW has a 28th ranked pas blocking oline, great RB, avg at best Wr, great defense, plays against the toughest defenses the most, and it is all about everyone else but him.

I mean on ESPN NFL insiders they were saying the whole thing was about Lynch, really except for 1 run that did not matter he has 33 yards and a 3.77 ypa. Again I love Lynch, but really in this game it is all about him?

That is why Rw will never win the MVP or really get the credit he deserves. Even in a game were Rw was the offense, he gets little credit from most of the experts

100% AGREED!
Mr. Poise Russell Wilson... rioting on the inside, and on the outside? quietly icing out the competition.
You can keep your inflated stats. as It doesn't really matter what other fans of other teams think of his importance, to me and millions of other Seahawks fans, he is already the MVP.

 

[scutterhawk]

There is no way Watt is the MVP. His defense isn't even a top 15 defense on a losing team. I also don't agree with the argument that it can't be Wilson because he throws less than the other top guys. You leave out his legs/rushing numbers and I don't see a good reason why you would do that.

It's extremely hard not to pick a QB as has already been stated. I think WIlson is probably 2nd or third if I was voting. Probably lean towards Romo at the moment.

You mean Romo's top NFL O-Line doesn't get any consideration?....hmmm.

 

[scutterhawk]

How would Romo, Rogers, Manning, and even terrific Tommy do with Wilson's O-Line in front of them.
Russell Wilson is doing it WITHOUT all those super flashy Receivers, or TE's.
Russell Wilson, and Marshawn Lynch are the World Champions Seahawks Offense.

 

[scutterhawk]

How would Romo, Rogers, Manning, and even terrific Tommy do with Wilson's O-Line in front of them.
Russell Wilson is doing it WITHOUT all those super flashy Receivers, or TE's.
Russell Wilson, and Marshawn Lynch ARE the World Champions Seahawks Offense.

 

[sutz]

Wilson has been just as important to his team's success this year as Rodgers, but Rodgers has all the shiny stats so he'll win.

If I had a vote I'd give it to Watt, dude is playing on another level than everyone else right now. Haven't seen a dominant defensive force like Watt since Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

MVP should never, ever, ever be anyone but a QB. Watt was incredible last year and the team still went 2-14, which says a lot about the relative value of his position; an elite QB having a great season never possibly finishes 2-14.

Watt could very well end up going down as the greatest defensive player in NFL history, and should still never get a single vote for MVP.

So you're saying that Cortez Kennedy didn't deserve the accolades he got?