Seahawks at Niners 11/11...

kidhawk

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Marvin49":2flp0plo said:
Uncle Si":2flp0plo said:
hawksfansinceday1":2flp0plo said:
94Smith":2flp0plo said:
I saw two evenly matched teams playing a hard fought game. A few bounces one way or another, or a call here or not here and it could change a lot. Seahawks had two red zone turnovers otherwise it would have been higher scoring. 49ers had turnovers in their own side of the field which led to 21 points. Calls favoured the 49ers. Some questionable calls . 49ers had the edge on defense coming in but Clowney played his best game of the year and evened it out. Russell was Russell when it mattered most. 49ers were missing some key players but Seahawks had injuries too. These teams are very even, that’s why it came down to the last second and could very well have been a tie. We can argue until we are blue in the face who is the better team but the truth is they are pretty equal .
yep, spot on

Yeah... was a great game. 9ers D was more impressive than I had anticipated. Their offense less so...

The Hawks D was the surprise in this one.

That's a big thing I took out of it.

The question is why?

Is the Seattle front 4 a sleeping giant? Were Staley and McGlinchey really rusty? Niner receivers after Kittle and Sanders suck hard?

Probably a mix of all.

Niner O hasn't looked like that all year. Divisional Street Fight? Dunno.

We finally have all our guys on that line healthy and in game shape (except Ansah). Reed missed the first 6 weeks due to suspension and I think he's just been working himself back into full game shape. Jefferson though, is the guys I think is the lynch pin. He's been able to really get good penetration and having all these guys out there at once, healthy and in game shape, really lifts everyone else up. This is the Dline I thought we could be and I think they'll continue to be good as long as they stay healthy. I do think this was one of those outliers. I don't see Clowney getting double digit QB hits every week, but I do think we will see a much improved Dline moving forward.
 
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Marvin49

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kidhawk":2nmmbiz5 said:
Marvin49":2nmmbiz5 said:
Uncle Si":2nmmbiz5 said:
hawksfansinceday1":2nmmbiz5 said:
yep, spot on

Yeah... was a great game. 9ers D was more impressive than I had anticipated. Their offense less so...

The Hawks D was the surprise in this one.

That's a big thing I took out of it.

The question is why?

Is the Seattle front 4 a sleeping giant? Were Staley and McGlinchey really rusty? Niner receivers after Kittle and Sanders suck hard?

Probably a mix of all.

Niner O hasn't looked like that all year. Divisional Street Fight? Dunno.

We finally have all our guys on that line healthy and in game shape (except Ansah). Reed missed the first 6 weeks due to suspension and I think he's just been working himself back into full game shape. Jefferson though, is the guys I think is the lynch pin. He's been able to really get good penetration and having all these guys out there at once, healthy and in game shape, really lifts everyone else up. This is the Dline I thought we could be and I think they'll continue to be good as long as they stay healthy. I do think this was one of those outliers. I don't see Clowney getting double digit QB hits every week, but I do think we will see a much improved Dline moving forward.

I saw Clowney beating Staley last night like he's never been beat before.

He looked like college Clowney.

I just dunno how much of that is him and how much of that is Staley rust...or worse, maybe he just doesn't have it anymore.

Niners played with backup tackles for a month against some pretty good pass rushers, and they never looked remotely like that.

McGlinchey got owned a few times too. I just don't know what conclusion to draw from that yet.
 

Sports Hernia

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94Smith":16szdtns said:
I saw two evenly matched teams playing a hard fought game. A few bounces one way or another, or a call here or not here and it could change a lot. Seahawks had two red zone turnovers otherwise it would have been higher scoring. 49ers had turnovers in their own side of the field which led to 21 points. Calls favoured the 49ers. Some questionable calls . 49ers had the edge on defense coming in but Clowney played his best game of the year and evened it out. Russell was Russell when it mattered most. 49ers were missing some key players but Seahawks had injuries too. These teams are very even, that’s why it came down to the last second and could very well have been a tie. We can argue until we are blue in the face who is the better team but the truth is they are pretty equal .
Nice levelheaded post. You are one of very few rational non-excuse making Niner fans. Thanks.
 

94Smith

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Marvin49":t0gey5py said:
kidhawk":t0gey5py said:
Marvin49":t0gey5py said:
Uncle Si":t0gey5py said:
Yeah... was a great game. 9ers D was more impressive than I had anticipated. Their offense less so...

The Hawks D was the surprise in this one.

That's a big thing I took out of it.

The question is why?

Is the Seattle front 4 a sleeping giant? Were Staley and McGlinchey really rusty? Niner receivers after Kittle and Sanders suck hard?

Probably a mix of all.

Niner O hasn't looked like that all year. Divisional Street Fight? Dunno.

We finally have all our guys on that line healthy and in game shape (except Ansah). Reed missed the first 6 weeks due to suspension and I think he's just been working himself back into full game shape. Jefferson though, is the guys I think is the lynch pin. He's been able to really get good penetration and having all these guys out there at once, healthy and in game shape, really lifts everyone else up. This is the Dline I thought we could be and I think they'll continue to be good as long as they stay healthy. I do think this was one of those outliers. I don't see Clowney getting double digit QB hits every week, but I do think we will see a much improved Dline moving forward.

I saw Clowney beating Staley last night like he's never been beat before.

He looked like college Clowney.

I just dunno how much of that is him and how much of that is Staley rust...or worse, maybe he just doesn't have it anymore.

Niners played with backup tackles for a month against some pretty good pass rushers, and they never looked remotely like that.

McGlinchey got owned a few times too. I just don't know what conclusion to draw from that yet.

I don't think the back up tackles were tested like they were. What did they throw like 46 times? They couldn't run the ball so they were forced to throw and put pressure on the tackles to perform. Also playing without the lead forces your team to throw the ball more.
 
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Marvin49

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94Smith":1ejv2z5b said:
Marvin49":1ejv2z5b said:
kidhawk":1ejv2z5b said:
Marvin49":1ejv2z5b said:
That's a big thing I took out of it.

The question is why?

Is the Seattle front 4 a sleeping giant? Were Staley and McGlinchey really rusty? Niner receivers after Kittle and Sanders suck hard?

Probably a mix of all.

Niner O hasn't looked like that all year. Divisional Street Fight? Dunno.

We finally have all our guys on that line healthy and in game shape (except Ansah). Reed missed the first 6 weeks due to suspension and I think he's just been working himself back into full game shape. Jefferson though, is the guys I think is the lynch pin. He's been able to really get good penetration and having all these guys out there at once, healthy and in game shape, really lifts everyone else up. This is the Dline I thought we could be and I think they'll continue to be good as long as they stay healthy. I do think this was one of those outliers. I don't see Clowney getting double digit QB hits every week, but I do think we will see a much improved Dline moving forward.

I saw Clowney beating Staley last night like he's never been beat before.

He looked like college Clowney.

I just dunno how much of that is him and how much of that is Staley rust...or worse, maybe he just doesn't have it anymore.

Niners played with backup tackles for a month against some pretty good pass rushers, and they never looked remotely like that.

McGlinchey got owned a few times too. I just don't know what conclusion to draw from that yet.

I don't think the back up tackles were tested like they were. What did they throw like 46 times? They couldn't run the ball so they were forced to throw and put pressure on the tackles to perform. Also playing without the lead forces your team to throw the ball more.

The Seahawks weren't the first team that stacked the box and forced them to throw. Rams did that. Cards did that.

Skule never looked like Staley did yesterday. Now I'm not sayin he's done or that Skule should start now, but I am sayin either he was real rusty or we have a problem at LT.
 

kidhawk

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Marvin49":2ihu805f said:
kidhawk":2ihu805f said:
Marvin49":2ihu805f said:
Uncle Si":2ihu805f said:
Yeah... was a great game. 9ers D was more impressive than I had anticipated. Their offense less so...

The Hawks D was the surprise in this one.

That's a big thing I took out of it.

The question is why?

Is the Seattle front 4 a sleeping giant? Were Staley and McGlinchey really rusty? Niner receivers after Kittle and Sanders suck hard?

Probably a mix of all.

Niner O hasn't looked like that all year. Divisional Street Fight? Dunno.

We finally have all our guys on that line healthy and in game shape (except Ansah). Reed missed the first 6 weeks due to suspension and I think he's just been working himself back into full game shape. Jefferson though, is the guys I think is the lynch pin. He's been able to really get good penetration and having all these guys out there at once, healthy and in game shape, really lifts everyone else up. This is the Dline I thought we could be and I think they'll continue to be good as long as they stay healthy. I do think this was one of those outliers. I don't see Clowney getting double digit QB hits every week, but I do think we will see a much improved Dline moving forward.

I saw Clowney beating Staley last night like he's never been beat before.

He looked like college Clowney.

I just dunno how much of that is him and how much of that is Staley rust...or worse, maybe he just doesn't have it anymore.

Niners played with backup tackles for a month against some pretty good pass rushers, and they never looked remotely like that.

McGlinchey got owned a few times too. I just don't know what conclusion to draw from that yet.

I'm sure that there was also some of that which played a part as well, I just know that what I've seen all season was a defensive line that couldn't get all 4 guys healthy and game ready at the same time before last night. As I said, this was an all world type game for Clowney. I don't expect that pace to continue at all. I'm sure a part of that can be attributed to what you are saying, but getting Reed looking to be back in game shape and getting Jefferson back are much more important than most will realize.
 

94Smith

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Marvin49":2n5s65gm said:
94Smith":2n5s65gm said:
Marvin49":2n5s65gm said:
kidhawk":2n5s65gm said:
We finally have all our guys on that line healthy and in game shape (except Ansah). Reed missed the first 6 weeks due to suspension and I think he's just been working himself back into full game shape. Jefferson though, is the guys I think is the lynch pin. He's been able to really get good penetration and having all these guys out there at once, healthy and in game shape, really lifts everyone else up. This is the Dline I thought we could be and I think they'll continue to be good as long as they stay healthy. I do think this was one of those outliers. I don't see Clowney getting double digit QB hits every week, but I do think we will see a much improved Dline moving forward.

I saw Clowney beating Staley last night like he's never been beat before.

He looked like college Clowney.

I just dunno how much of that is him and how much of that is Staley rust...or worse, maybe he just doesn't have it anymore.

Niners played with backup tackles for a month against some pretty good pass rushers, and they never looked remotely like that.

McGlinchey got owned a few times too. I just don't know what conclusion to draw from that yet.

I don't think the back up tackles were tested like they were. What did they throw like 46 times? They couldn't run the ball so they were forced to throw and put pressure on the tackles to perform. Also playing without the lead forces your team to throw the ball more.

The Seahawks weren't the first team that stacked the box and forced them to throw. Rams did that. Cards did that.

Skule never looked like Staley did yesterday. Now I'm not sayin he's done or that Skule should start now, but I am sayin either he was real rusty or we have a problem at LT.

It would be interesting to see the coaches tape but I have a feeling that our receivers were not getting much seperation. Jimmy was holding the ball a lot.
 
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Marvin49

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94Smith":144mki6m said:
Marvin49":144mki6m said:
94Smith":144mki6m said:
Marvin49":144mki6m said:
I saw Clowney beating Staley last night like he's never been beat before.

He looked like college Clowney.

I just dunno how much of that is him and how much of that is Staley rust...or worse, maybe he just doesn't have it anymore.

Niners played with backup tackles for a month against some pretty good pass rushers, and they never looked remotely like that.

McGlinchey got owned a few times too. I just don't know what conclusion to draw from that yet.

I don't think the back up tackles were tested like they were. What did they throw like 46 times? They couldn't run the ball so they were forced to throw and put pressure on the tackles to perform. Also playing without the lead forces your team to throw the ball more.

The Seahawks weren't the first team that stacked the box and forced them to throw. Rams did that. Cards did that.

Skule never looked like Staley did yesterday. Now I'm not sayin he's done or that Skule should start now, but I am sayin either he was real rusty or we have a problem at LT.

It would be interesting to see the coaches tape but I have a feeling that our receivers were not getting much seperation. Jimmy was holding the ball a lot.


YES. THAT.

I forgot to mention that, but SOOOO true.

He was regularly htting that back foot and holding it through several reads. He is normally VERY quick to get the ball out, but he was holding it quite a bit.

Nobody getting open? Dunno.
 

Chapow

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Ezekiel38":2siotopc said:
The talking heads...sigh. And JG played very well this game in my opinion and did what was needed to lead the team to a victory. And did it more than once. That is a reason I still have much belief in how far this team can go this season; I trust JG in high-leverage moments to come through. He did come through. Bourne and others did not. I don't think I can bare to watch the ignorant punditry claim this game was a knock against JG, and even worse RW lost the game for the Seahawks with his pick before he won it. And now the media drools all over him even more.

Jimmy G in OT. 1-5 for 7 yards including a horrifically thrown ball that went right through K.J. Wrights hands and bounced off his chest. For as much as you guys are talking about drops, that was the the most egregious drop of the game. Jimmy was so bad in OT that Boog and Tessitore were commenting that it looked like he was panicking.

Russell Wilson in OT. 7-11 for 77 yards, 18 yards rushing, and yes, 1 pick. Russ slightly under threw it and Greenlaw made a great play going up and getting, but it wasn't remotely as bad of a throw as Jimmys absolute gift to K.J. that he dropped.

I'm not trying to diminish the pick. It was definitely a terrible mistake that could have cost them the game, but even with that mistake, Russ drastically out played Jimmy in OT when it mattered most. Jimmy did basically nothing in OT other than panic and trip all over his own dick. That is why the "ignorant punditry" will look at this game as a knock against JG and drool all over Russ even more.
 
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Marvin49

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Chapow":9dph53c8 said:
Ezekiel38":9dph53c8 said:
The talking heads...sigh. And JG played very well this game in my opinion and did what was needed to lead the team to a victory. And did it more than once. That is a reason I still have much belief in how far this team can go this season; I trust JG in high-leverage moments to come through. He did come through. Bourne and others did not. I don't think I can bare to watch the ignorant punditry claim this game was a knock against JG, and even worse RW lost the game for the Seahawks with his pick before he won it. And now the media drools all over him even more.

Jimmy G in OT. 1-5 for 7 yards including a horrifically thrown ball that went right through K.J. Wrights hands and bounced off his chest. For as much as you guys are talking about drops, that was the the most egregious drop of the game. Jimmy was so bad in OT that Boog and Tessitore were commenting that it looked like he was panicking.

Russell Wilson in OT. 7-11 for 77 yards, 18 yards rushing, and yes, 1 pick. Russ slightly under threw it and Greenlaw made a great play going up and getting, but it wasn't remotely as bad of a throw as Jimmys absolute gift to K.J. that he dropped.

I'm not trying to diminish the pick. It was definitely a terrible mistake that could have cost them the game, but even with that mistake, Russ drastically out played Jimmy in OT when it mattered most. Jimmy did basically nothing in OT other than panic and trip all over his own d*ck. That is why the "ignorant punditry" will look at this game as a knock against JG and drool all over Russ even more.

1) Please stop quoting Booger and Tessitore. They are horrific. For perspecive, vs the Browns they kept excusing Baker and attacking Jimmy. I'm not kidding. Jimmy was 20-29 for 180+ yards and 2 TDs (they also rushed for 275 yards). Baker was 8-20 for 100 and an INT...but Baker was the one they made excuses for. Right.

On those near INTs tho, Wagner said after the game that they had figured out the keys...IE they could hear his call and knew where the ball was going. They were bad throws, but context there. That's pretty impressive from two vet LBs.

2) None of those plays even happen if the WRs catch the damn ball.

3) I never said Jimmy was better than Wilson, so no idea why the comparison was necessary. I do like how Jimmys bass was "horrifically thrown" and Wilsons was "slightly underthrown". LOL. Honestly, I think both LBs made great plays especially now that I know how KJ Wright was in that spot to begin with.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimTrotter_NFL/status/1194298303178932224[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimTrotter_NFL/status/1194299605728391168[/tweet]
 

SantaClaraHawk

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Honestly, Marv, KS lost the game in OT. They easily could have made that 4th and inches for a fresh set of downs, run it closer for their kicker or try for a TD while killing the clock.

They were looking at worse realistic case a tie...so they gave Russ the ball back with a minute thirty.
 

Washington49er

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SantaClaraHawk":14phqi19 said:
Honestly, Marv, KS lost the game in OT. They easily could have made that 4th and inches for a fresh set of downs, run it closer for their kicker or try for a TD while killing the clock.

They were looking at worse realistic case a tie...so they gave Russ the ball back with a minute thirty.

100% this^, all the things lead to that point. KS ultimately made the wrong decision.
 

Chapow

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Marvin49":1vi903pi said:
Chapow":1vi903pi said:
Ezekiel38":1vi903pi said:
The talking heads...sigh. And JG played very well this game in my opinion and did what was needed to lead the team to a victory. And did it more than once. That is a reason I still have much belief in how far this team can go this season; I trust JG in high-leverage moments to come through. He did come through. Bourne and others did not. I don't think I can bare to watch the ignorant punditry claim this game was a knock against JG, and even worse RW lost the game for the Seahawks with his pick before he won it. And now the media drools all over him even more.

Jimmy G in OT. 1-5 for 7 yards including a horrifically thrown ball that went right through K.J. Wrights hands and bounced off his chest. For as much as you guys are talking about drops, that was the the most egregious drop of the game. Jimmy was so bad in OT that Boog and Tessitore were commenting that it looked like he was panicking.

Russell Wilson in OT. 7-11 for 77 yards, 18 yards rushing, and yes, 1 pick. Russ slightly under threw it and Greenlaw made a great play going up and getting, but it wasn't remotely as bad of a throw as Jimmys absolute gift to K.J. that he dropped.

I'm not trying to diminish the pick. It was definitely a terrible mistake that could have cost them the game, but even with that mistake, Russ drastically out played Jimmy in OT when it mattered most. Jimmy did basically nothing in OT other than panic and trip all over his own d*ck. That is why the "ignorant punditry" will look at this game as a knock against JG and drool all over Russ even more.

1) Please stop quoting Booger and Tessitore. They are horrific. For perspecive, vs the Browns they kept excusing Baker and attacking Jimmy. I'm not kidding. Jimmy was 20-29 for 180+ yards and 2 TDs (they also rushed for 275 yards). Baker was 8-20 for 100 and an INT...but Baker was the one they made excuses for. Right.

On those near INTs tho, Wagner said after the game that they had figured out the keys...IE they could hear his call and knew where the ball was going. They were bad throws, but context there. That's pretty impressive from two vet LBs.

2) None of those plays even happen if the WRs catch the damn ball.

3) I never said Jimmy was better than Wilson, so no idea why the comparison was necessary. I do like how Jimmys bass was "horrifically thrown" and Wilsons was "slightly underthrown". LOL. Honestly, I think both LBs made great plays especially now that I know how KJ Wright was in that spot to begin with.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimTrotter_NFL/status/1194298303178932224[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimTrotter_NFL/status/1194299605728391168[/tweet]

I didn't quote you. I quoted Ezekiel. That post was in response to his post, and mostly to these comments.

I trust JG in high-leverage moments to come through. He did come through.

I don't think I can bare to watch the ignorant punditry claim this game was a knock against JG, and even worse RW lost the game for the Seahawks with his pick before he won it. And now the media drools all over him even more.

Does my post make more sense to you now?

And even if Boog and Tessitore are horrific, they aren't always wrong. Maybe "panicking" is a bit strong, but Jimmy sure didn't look calm, cool, and collected out there in OT like one would hope to see from the leader of the offense.
 
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Marvin49

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SantaClaraHawk":2rl9dp74 said:
Honestly, Marv, KS lost the game in OT. They easily could have made that 4th and inches for a fresh set of downs, run it closer for their kicker or try for a TD while killing the clock.

They were looking at worse realistic case a tie...so they gave Russ the ball back with a minute thirty.

That's a tough one. I kinda wanted them to go, but a couple things...

1) It was a bad spot to begin with. He had the first down. Now don't jump on me about all the bad calls (there were several), but I'm talking about this situation specifically.

2) That kicker was 3 for 3.

3) They had shown little ability to run the ball all night. If they DON'T get it, people are all over him making the opposite argument.
 
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Marvin49

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Chapow":3b7mldz3 said:
Marvin49":3b7mldz3 said:
Chapow":3b7mldz3 said:
Ezekiel38":3b7mldz3 said:
The talking heads...sigh. And JG played very well this game in my opinion and did what was needed to lead the team to a victory. And did it more than once. That is a reason I still have much belief in how far this team can go this season; I trust JG in high-leverage moments to come through. He did come through. Bourne and others did not. I don't think I can bare to watch the ignorant punditry claim this game was a knock against JG, and even worse RW lost the game for the Seahawks with his pick before he won it. And now the media drools all over him even more.

Jimmy G in OT. 1-5 for 7 yards including a horrifically thrown ball that went right through K.J. Wrights hands and bounced off his chest. For as much as you guys are talking about drops, that was the the most egregious drop of the game. Jimmy was so bad in OT that Boog and Tessitore were commenting that it looked like he was panicking.

Russell Wilson in OT. 7-11 for 77 yards, 18 yards rushing, and yes, 1 pick. Russ slightly under threw it and Greenlaw made a great play going up and getting, but it wasn't remotely as bad of a throw as Jimmys absolute gift to K.J. that he dropped.

I'm not trying to diminish the pick. It was definitely a terrible mistake that could have cost them the game, but even with that mistake, Russ drastically out played Jimmy in OT when it mattered most. Jimmy did basically nothing in OT other than panic and trip all over his own d*ck. That is why the "ignorant punditry" will look at this game as a knock against JG and drool all over Russ even more.

1) Please stop quoting Booger and Tessitore. They are horrific. For perspecive, vs the Browns they kept excusing Baker and attacking Jimmy. I'm not kidding. Jimmy was 20-29 for 180+ yards and 2 TDs (they also rushed for 275 yards). Baker was 8-20 for 100 and an INT...but Baker was the one they made excuses for. Right.

On those near INTs tho, Wagner said after the game that they had figured out the keys...IE they could hear his call and knew where the ball was going. They were bad throws, but context there. That's pretty impressive from two vet LBs.

2) None of those plays even happen if the WRs catch the damn ball.

3) I never said Jimmy was better than Wilson, so no idea why the comparison was necessary. I do like how Jimmys bass was "horrifically thrown" and Wilsons was "slightly underthrown". LOL. Honestly, I think both LBs made great plays especially now that I know how KJ Wright was in that spot to begin with.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimTrotter_NFL/status/1194298303178932224[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimTrotter_NFL/status/1194299605728391168[/tweet]

I didn't quote you. I quoted Ezekiel. That post was in response to his post, and mostly to these comments.

I trust JG in high-leverage moments to come through. He did come through.

I don't think I can bare to watch the ignorant punditry claim this game was a knock against JG, and even worse RW lost the game for the Seahawks with his pick before he won it. And now the media drools all over him even more.

Does my post make more sense to you now?

And even if Boog and Tessitore are horrific, they aren't always wrong. Maybe "panicking" is a bit strong, but Jimmy sure didn't look calm, cool, and collected out there in OT like one would hope to see from the leader of the offense.

Oh no, he was certainly uncomfortable. Clowney was depositing Staley and McGlinchey in his lap all night. He was certainly rushing his throws and didn't help that Wagner and Wright had kinda "cracked the code" (and I'm glad they stated so publicly so that it can be fixed).

It was also really clear that after all of those drops, niether Garoppolo or Shanahan trusted those WRs. Burned way too many times this year and this game. That was the entire purpose for the Sanders trade...a guy who hadn't dropped a pass all year.

It may come off as me just defending Jimmy G, but that ain't it. He made some poor throws. He just didn't get much help either.

Wilson outplayed him just as you would expect from an MVP candidate.
 

knownone

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Marvin49":3ctvjtcr said:
knownone":3ctvjtcr said:
I get that the receivers dropped balls, but Jimmy was lucky to come away with only one INT. I'm not sure how you could watch his performance and think he played well. He looked like a guy in over his head. I'm not going to say that one bad game can define who Garoppolo is going forward, but we shouldn't pretend it's meaningless or write off his performance to the poor play of others. This was his first real test as a starter, and he did not have a good game. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB, or that he's finally been exposed.

M'Kay,

Not gonna say he played WELL, but I dunno how you can watch the game and not see that the drops had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the game.

They were drive extenders. One was an INT that gave Seattle the ball near the 20 (Bourne). One would have given the 49ers a 1st and goal and they ended up settling for a FG (Bourne). Another would have been a HUGE completion over the middle with room to run (Samuel). One would have extended a drive at the beginning of the game (Goodwin). Two more would have been a huge 3rd down conversions (Pettis and Juszczyk).

Time and time again drops KILLED them last night.

Now, at the end of the game he certainly made some poor throws that LBs dropped. No defense of him there, but without the OTHER drops, they are never even in that position.

I take nothing away from Seattle. They deserved it more than SF did. ther eis no question...but don't sit here and tell me that the drops didn't have anything to do with it. They were HUGE.
The drops absolutely had an impact on the game, for sure, but that's a two sided coin. For instance, I could sit here and find examples of mistakes by the Hawks that would have changed the game as well. Like the fairly benign 50/50 penalty that negated Griffin's interception, or Metcalf's two huge first down drops, and his fumble on the two yard line, etc...

I think the Hawks played poorly on offense. I think Wilson had one of his worst games of the season and struggled for large stretches of the game. Most of our struggles were because the 49ers defense dominated our offensive line. Things could have gone better in certain aspects, absolutely, but at the end of the day, I place the onus on Wilson to get things done. Seriously, we were fortunate to come away with a win. Wilson's fumble for a touchdown and his INT in OT were game changing plays and largely on him. In spite of all the mistakes that were outside of his control, I still think Wilson still needed to play better. That's the burden of being the QB.

What I'm seeing from Niners fans (not necessarily you) seems like the opposite reaction. Instead of acknowledging he struggled, they are protecting him (or themselves) by blaming everything else that went wrong to justify his struggles. The offensive line, the receivers, injuries, etc... Those things are going to happen, and if your QB can't adapt through adversity, then he might not be who you think he is. That's more of generality than specifically relating to Jimmy.

I personally don't place much significance on one game to determine how good a QB a player is. I said way back in week 5 that I didn't know what to make of Jimmy G because we haven't seen what he can do when a defense takes away his running game and forces him to play from behind. I knew this game was coming eventually. No QB is immune to adversity for his entire career. From my perspective, this was an expected occurrence from a young QB on a great team, so much so that I predicted (roughly) what would happen in the prediction thread.

I think the Seahawks will slow down the Niners rushing attack and Jimmy G will move the ball up and down the field but fail to convert TDs consistently. This could be the Seahawks most productive day rushing the passer.

He got his first real test of playoff football and both he and the offense struggled. This is not an indictment on Garoppolo or the Niners chances. This a small bump in the road that Jimmy needs to experience and bounce back from in order to prove to himself that he belongs out there. These fairy-tales about drops and injuries are just things we tell ourselves to feel better about our chances. History doesn't care about young guys who drop passes, or players getting injured at inopportune times. History cares about outcomes, and ultimately, the Niners will only go as far as Jimmy takes them. The rest is just noise.
 

SantaClaraHawk

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Marvin49":3odya2k2 said:
SantaClaraHawk":3odya2k2 said:
Honestly, Marv, KS lost the game in OT. They easily could have made that 4th and inches for a fresh set of downs, run it closer for their kicker or try for a TD while killing the clock.

They were looking at worse realistic case a tie...so they gave Russ the ball back with a minute thirty.

That's a tough one. I kinda wanted them to go, but a couple things...

1) It was a bad spot to begin with. He had the first down. Now don't jump on me about all the bad calls (there were several), but I'm talking about this situation specifically.

2) That kicker was 3 for 3.

3) They had shown little ability to run the ball all night. If they DON'T get it, people are all over him making the opposite argument.

The Hawks scared them w/takeaways but it went both ways. The momentum was on your side just to run the ball up if only to make that FG more a chip shot. Ya, the kid wouldn't have made it with that kick 15 yards closer, but at 15 yards closer, maybe he doesn't get those yips to flub it. If he doesn't get it, it's a tie.

I would have put clock management first, especially in a "tie-ish" game like this one, and especially knowing that the average rate for kickers is about 80 percent right now, and especially w/ a first time substitute.
 
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Marvin49

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knownone":1rk7sa0l said:
Marvin49":1rk7sa0l said:
knownone":1rk7sa0l said:
I get that the receivers dropped balls, but Jimmy was lucky to come away with only one INT. I'm not sure how you could watch his performance and think he played well. He looked like a guy in over his head. I'm not going to say that one bad game can define who Garoppolo is going forward, but we shouldn't pretend it's meaningless or write off his performance to the poor play of others. This was his first real test as a starter, and he did not have a good game. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB, or that he's finally been exposed.

M'Kay,

Not gonna say he played WELL, but I dunno how you can watch the game and not see that the drops had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the game.

They were drive extenders. One was an INT that gave Seattle the ball near the 20 (Bourne). One would have given the 49ers a 1st and goal and they ended up settling for a FG (Bourne). Another would have been a HUGE completion over the middle with room to run (Samuel). One would have extended a drive at the beginning of the game (Goodwin). Two more would have been a huge 3rd down conversions (Pettis and Juszczyk).

Time and time again drops KILLED them last night.

Now, at the end of the game he certainly made some poor throws that LBs dropped. No defense of him there, but without the OTHER drops, they are never even in that position.

I take nothing away from Seattle. They deserved it more than SF did. ther eis no question...but don't sit here and tell me that the drops didn't have anything to do with it. They were HUGE.
The drops absolutely had an impact on the game, for sure, but that's a two sided coin. For instance, I could sit here and find examples of mistakes by the Hawks that would have changed the game as well. Like the fairly benign 50/50 penalty that negated Griffin's interception, or Metcalf's two huge first down drops, and his fumble on the two yard line, etc...

I think the Hawks played poorly on offense. I think Wilson had one of his worst games of the season and struggled for large stretches of the game. Most of our struggles were because the 49ers defense dominated our offensive line. Things could have gone better in certain aspects, absolutely, but at the end of the day, I place the onus on Wilson to get things done. Seriously, we were fortunate to come away with a win. Wilson's fumble for a touchdown and his INT in OT were game changing plays and largely on him. In spite of all the mistakes that were outside of his control, I still think Wilson still needed to play better. That's the burden of being the QB.

What I'm seeing from Niners fans (not necessarily you) seems like the opposite reaction. Instead of acknowledging he struggled, they are protecting him (or themselves) by blaming everything else that went wrong to justify his struggles. The offensive line, the receivers, injuries, etc... Those things are going to happen, and if your QB can't adapt through adversity, then he might not be who you think he is. That's more of generality than specifically relating to Jimmy.

I personally don't place much significance on one game to determine how good a QB a player is. I said way back in week 5 that I didn't know what to make of Jimmy G because we haven't seen what he can do when a defense takes away his running game and forces him to play from behind. I knew this game was coming eventually. No QB is immune to adversity for his entire career. From my perspective, this was an expected occurrence from a young QB on a great team, so much so that I predicted (roughly) what would happen in the prediction thread.

I think the Seahawks will slow down the Niners rushing attack and Jimmy G will move the ball up and down the field but fail to convert TDs consistently. This could be the Seahawks most productive day rushing the passer.

He got his first real test of playoff football and both he and the offense struggled. This is not an indictment on Garoppolo or the Niners chances. This a small bump in the road that Jimmy needs to experience and bounce back from in order to prove to himself that he belongs out there. These fairy-tales about drops and injuries are just things we tell ourselves to feel better about our chances. History doesn't care about young guys who drop passes, or players getting injured at inopportune times. History cares about outcomes, and ultimately, the Niners will only go as far as Jimmy takes them. The rest is just noise.

So I'd answer that two ways....

1) Mostly fair
2) I think your expectation is that regardless of the players around him, you expect the QB to succeed. Thats built by watching Wilson play day in and day out for a long time.

That ain't the way it works on all teams.

You are right, history won't tell that story, but it really doesn't matter what history says. Football isn't played in a history book. The FACTS are that on MULTIPLE occasions last night, Jimmy Garoppolo put the ball on receivers hands and they flat dropped it. Worse yet, on three occasions, the intended target knocked it into the air to get picked off or nearly so.

That IS on those receivers. That is NOT on Jimmy.

I keep reading that he "could have been picked off 5 times". Three of those passes were tipped into the air. How is that on Jimmy?

He did however make some poor throws independent of those passes. That's not even an argument and I'm not defending them. If you had seen Wilson passes getting knocked straight up into the air or dropped on crucial third downs as Niner fans did last night, you would be here making the EXACT same argument.

Now, does that mean I think that was the only factor? Not even a little bit. I'm not trying to absolve Jimmy of all responsibility. What I am saying is that its never quite as bad or quite as good as you think it is. This is a good example.

Being down Kittle and Sanders made a huge difference on the Niner performance. Now does that mean I think they win if those passes are caught? I can't say that because at that point its an entirely different game.
 
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Marvin49

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SantaClaraHawk":1mbcwmu1 said:
Marvin49":1mbcwmu1 said:
SantaClaraHawk":1mbcwmu1 said:
Honestly, Marv, KS lost the game in OT. They easily could have made that 4th and inches for a fresh set of downs, run it closer for their kicker or try for a TD while killing the clock.

They were looking at worse realistic case a tie...so they gave Russ the ball back with a minute thirty.

That's a tough one. I kinda wanted them to go, but a couple things...

1) It was a bad spot to begin with. He had the first down. Now don't jump on me about all the bad calls (there were several), but I'm talking about this situation specifically.

2) That kicker was 3 for 3.

3) They had shown little ability to run the ball all night. If they DON'T get it, people are all over him making the opposite argument.

The Hawks scared them w/takeaways but it went both ways. The momentum was on your side just to run the ball up if only to make that FG more a chip shot. Ya, the kid wouldn't have made it with that kick 15 yards closer, but at 15 yards closer, maybe he doesn't get those yips to flub it. If he doesn't get it, it's a tie.

I would have put clock management first, especially in a "tie-ish" game like this one, and especially knowing that the average rate for kickers is about 80 percent right now, and especially w/ a first time substitute.

Well considering the kick, I think it might have missed from 18 yards out.
 

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Marvin49":1uvqc747 said:
knownone":1uvqc747 said:
Marvin49":1uvqc747 said:
knownone":1uvqc747 said:
I get that the receivers dropped balls, but Jimmy was lucky to come away with only one INT. I'm not sure how you could watch his performance and think he played well. He looked like a guy in over his head. I'm not going to say that one bad game can define who Garoppolo is going forward, but we shouldn't pretend it's meaningless or write off his performance to the poor play of others. This was his first real test as a starter, and he did not have a good game. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB, or that he's finally been exposed.

M'Kay,

Not gonna say he played WELL, but I dunno how you can watch the game and not see that the drops had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the game.

They were drive extenders. One was an INT that gave Seattle the ball near the 20 (Bourne). One would have given the 49ers a 1st and goal and they ended up settling for a FG (Bourne). Another would have been a HUGE completion over the middle with room to run (Samuel). One would have extended a drive at the beginning of the game (Goodwin). Two more would have been a huge 3rd down conversions (Pettis and Juszczyk).

Time and time again drops KILLED them last night.

Now, at the end of the game he certainly made some poor throws that LBs dropped. No defense of him there, but without the OTHER drops, they are never even in that position.

I take nothing away from Seattle. They deserved it more than SF did. ther eis no question...but don't sit here and tell me that the drops didn't have anything to do with it. They were HUGE.
The drops absolutely had an impact on the game, for sure, but that's a two sided coin. For instance, I could sit here and find examples of mistakes by the Hawks that would have changed the game as well. Like the fairly benign 50/50 penalty that negated Griffin's interception, or Metcalf's two huge first down drops, and his fumble on the two yard line, etc...

I think the Hawks played poorly on offense. I think Wilson had one of his worst games of the season and struggled for large stretches of the game. Most of our struggles were because the 49ers defense dominated our offensive line. Things could have gone better in certain aspects, absolutely, but at the end of the day, I place the onus on Wilson to get things done. Seriously, we were fortunate to come away with a win. Wilson's fumble for a touchdown and his INT in OT were game changing plays and largely on him. In spite of all the mistakes that were outside of his control, I still think Wilson still needed to play better. That's the burden of being the QB.

What I'm seeing from Niners fans (not necessarily you) seems like the opposite reaction. Instead of acknowledging he struggled, they are protecting him (or themselves) by blaming everything else that went wrong to justify his struggles. The offensive line, the receivers, injuries, etc... Those things are going to happen, and if your QB can't adapt through adversity, then he might not be who you think he is. That's more of generality than specifically relating to Jimmy.

I personally don't place much significance on one game to determine how good a QB a player is. I said way back in week 5 that I didn't know what to make of Jimmy G because we haven't seen what he can do when a defense takes away his running game and forces him to play from behind. I knew this game was coming eventually. No QB is immune to adversity for his entire career. From my perspective, this was an expected occurrence from a young QB on a great team, so much so that I predicted (roughly) what would happen in the prediction thread.

I think the Seahawks will slow down the Niners rushing attack and Jimmy G will move the ball up and down the field but fail to convert TDs consistently. This could be the Seahawks most productive day rushing the passer.

He got his first real test of playoff football and both he and the offense struggled. This is not an indictment on Garoppolo or the Niners chances. This a small bump in the road that Jimmy needs to experience and bounce back from in order to prove to himself that he belongs out there. These fairy-tales about drops and injuries are just things we tell ourselves to feel better about our chances. History doesn't care about young guys who drop passes, or players getting injured at inopportune times. History cares about outcomes, and ultimately, the Niners will only go as far as Jimmy takes them. The rest is just noise.

So I'd answer that two ways....

1) Mostly fair
2) I think your expectation is that regardless of the players around him, you expect the QB to succeed. Thats built by watching Wilson play day in and day out for a long time.

That ain't the way it works on all teams.

You are right, history won't tell that story, but it really doesn't matter what history says. Football isn't played in a history book. The FACTS are that on MULTIPLE occasions last night, Jimmy Garoppolo put the ball on receivers hands and they flat dropped it. Worse yet, on three occasions, the intended target knocked it into the air to get picked off or nearly so.

That IS on those receivers. That is NOT on Jimmy.

I keep reading that he "could have been picked off 5 times". Three of those passes were tipped into the air. How is that on Jimmy?

He did however make some poor throws independent of those passes. That's not even an argument and I'm not defending them. If you had seen Wilson passes getting knocked straight up into the air or dropped on crucial third downs as Niner fans did last night, you would be here making the EXACT same argument.

Now, does that mean I think that was the only factor? Not even a little bit. I'm not trying to absolve Jimmy of all responsibility. What I am saying is that its never quite as bad or quite as good as you think it is. This is a good example.

Being down Kittle and Sanders made a huge difference on the Niner performance. Now does that mean I think they win if those passes are caught? I can't say that because at that point its an entirely different game.
We get it Marv, nothing is Crapollo’s fault In your world, ever. #10 has never thrown a pick that was his fault in your mind. You make excuses for GQ like the excuses you made for the Kraepper. Keep polishing those turds and expecting them to turn into gold.

His tipped balls were because he was missing high, see inaccuracy.
Wagner and KJ Wright dropped balls that hit them squarely in the hands.

Jimmy will be Kraepper 2.0 minus the foot speed, and cannon for an arm. #10 has been exposed.
 
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