Seahawks making “considerable progress” on Sherman deal

[Hawknballs]

KKKKKKKKKKam.

Anyways.

My theory is that Thomas and Sherman will have their deals announced at the same time

SHERM LOVE YOU BRO

LOVE YOU TOO E

 

[jhern87]

Pay the stars and trust our front office to fill in the holes via the draft and free-agency. Sherm has more than earned his next contract.

 

[chrispy]

These numbers being thrown around don't make any sense:

Currently the Hawks have Sherm for 3 more years for an average yearly salary of just under $8.5 million.

2014: 1.431M
franchise 2015: 10,854M
franchise 2016: 13.025M

totaling just over 25 million.

That's the starting point. Why are we jumping to double that as a starting point? Sherm wants to be the highest paid. But would anyone here pay 50% more for a car because the salesman said he wanted to be the highest paid salesman? I'm fine paying him more than this. He's earned it. But the team has to pay other players too. Quite frankly, there's no reason to pay Sherm 13M/yr except to feed his ego. .. and his ego isn't as important as keeping our other stars.

In 2017 and 2018 (assuming he can go 5 years without losing a step or missing time injured), he'd probably be worth 14-17M because of the cap rise. (Remember people are talking about our franchise QB at 17-20, so that's still a big payday) So on a 5 year deal, adding 34 M to the above 25 would reach a total of 59M or almost 12M/yr. We're still not near 13M/yr. And that's paying for two extra years with open market prices. ... and that's giving the highest premium on those last 2 years.

I'm sure he's worth a lot. He's probably worth more than my numbers above. But isn't that what's made the Seahawks so good for the past few years: getting more than you pay for

If this FO pays 13M/yr or more (on a 5 yr deal) there's no other way to look at it except they made a mistake. ... and I don't think they will.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

KKKKKKKKKKam.

Anyways.

My theory is that Thomas and Sherman will have their deals announced at the same time

SHERM LOVE YOU BRO

LOVE YOU TOO E

Thank you, Hawk. That's a bit embarrassing and distracts from my point. All fixed... :180670:

 

[Shadowhawk]

For starters, if they franchise Sherman the cap hit in those two years would be the $10 million and $13 million numbers you posted. Whereas a long term deal gives Seattle the flexibility to have a lower cap hit the first few years of the deal by including a final year in the contract with an inflated base salary, which raises the average per year and also gives the team an incentive to renegotiate before the deal expires. So just franchising Sherman would leave us with LESS cap room over 2015 and 2016. Remember, a $13 mil per year average does NOT mean a $13 mil cap hit each year.

Second, having a long term deal not only keeps Sherman around here longer (obviously) but if we let his deal expire and tried to franchise him, he would likely take it as a sign of disrespect, and could cause problems in the locker room.

Extending him now is absolutely the right move.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

It's not the per year money. It's all about the structure and the guarantees. I expect something like 6/72 with 30 million guaranteed or similar.

 

[Shadowhawk]

My theory is that Thomas and Sherman will have their deals announced at the same time.

I sure hope so! I was skeptical that they could come to terms on Earl's deal without the news leaking out, but then I remembered that news on Kam's new contract didn't leak until right before the press conference; we didn't even know they were working on a long term deal until it was done. So I sure hope that's the case here. If they announce them both at the same time I will flip out (in a good way!)

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Only Cliff Avril and KJ Wright warrant consideration for extensions off that list. The rest can be replaced by rookie contracts in a heartbeat.

:13:

 

[chrispy]

I agree that an extension is the best move. I think, however, the most important piece of negotiating that extension is that we don't need to extend him to have him for 3 more years at 8.5M/yr. So give-and-take/meet-in-the-middle/incentives/unguaranteed-money/cap-management all are reasonable to consider. But the bottom line is that we already have Sherm for 3 years for 8.5M/yr. JS should give up more than that to get another few years. And Sherm should expect to get paid because of his play. But there's just no way JS pays a a crazy salary just because everyone else pays their corners a lot. Not when we have him for 3 yrs at 8.5M right now.

Cap Mgmt is important but with the contracts of Sherm and Wilson coming, we can back/front load those to average out yearly cap hit. Give Earl a big 1st year salary on Sherm's 1.4 mil year and together the two contracts are manageable regardless of what Sherm's numbers are. Add in the ability to give RW a sign-on and ramped up longterm deal, and the cap hit can be pretty straight.

I think the biggest hurdle here is to structure a deal so the Seahawks are giving a reasonable increase for performance and still allowing Sherm to advertise he's the highest paid. I don't think Sherm signs a deal unless he can promote himself with it. I don't think this FO gives away multiple millions/yr (and potentially loses other players) only because Sherm wants to say he's the highest paid. Not when they have him anyway for 3 years and much cheaper.

 

[renofox]

If Sherman hits FA in two years (assuming Seahawks opt for 1 year franchise tag), he will get a long-term contract worth at least $16m/yr.

With the projected massive cap increases, and the increasing recognition of the team win/loss value provided by top cornerback play, it is quite possible he would get $20m year or very close to it.

Locking him up now at $13m/yr would be a steal.

 

[volsunghawk]

If Sherman hits FA in two years (assuming Seahawks opt for 1 year franchise tag), he will get a long-term contract worth at least $16m/yr.

With the projected massive cap increases, and the increasing recognition of the team win/loss value provided by top cornerback play, it is quite possible he would get $20m year or very close to it.

Locking him up now at $13m/yr would be a steal.

Exactly. The longer you wait to do Sherman's deal, the more it's going to cost due to increases in the salary cap and the ever-growing contracts of other players. What might cost us $13M per year this offseason could cost us $18M per year 3 years from now, effectively wiping out the savings we would theoretically get by having Sherman play the last year of his rookie deal and then franchising him twice. Additionally, if we do an extension, that gives the FO a lot of ability to tweak the cap hits as they need. If we rely on the franchise tag, that ability is eliminated.

 

[Hawknballs]

For everyone who is worried about "overpaying" sherman:

 

[Zebulon Dak]

^^^HAHAHAHAHA^^^^

-__-

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

For everyone who is worried about "overpaying" sherman:

Thank you for this post. Just remember these years folks.

 

[DavidSeven]

These numbers being thrown around don't make any sense:

Currently the Hawks have Sherm for 3 more years for an average yearly salary of just under $8.5 million.

2014: 1.431M
franchise 2015: 10,854M
franchise 2016: 13.025M

totaling just over 25 million.

That's the starting point. Why are we jumping to double that as a starting point? Sherm wants to be the highest paid. But would anyone here pay 50% more for a car because the salesman said he wanted to be the highest paid salesman? I'm fine paying him more than this. He's earned it. But the team has to pay other players too. Quite frankly, there's no reason to pay Sherm 13M/yr except to feed his ego. .. and his ego isn't as important as keeping our other stars.

In 2017 and 2018 (assuming he can go 5 years without losing a step or missing time injured), he'd probably be worth 14-17M because of the cap rise. (Remember people are talking about our franchise QB at 17-20, so that's still a big payday) So on a 5 year deal, adding 34 M to the above 25 would reach a total of 59M or almost 12M/yr. We're still not near 13M/yr. And that's paying for two extra years with open market prices. ... and that's giving the highest premium on those last 2 years.

I'm sure he's worth a lot. He's probably worth more than my numbers above. But isn't that what's made the Seahawks so good for the past few years: getting more than you pay for

If this FO pays 13M/yr or more (on a 5 yr deal) there's no other way to look at it except they made a mistake. ... and I don't think they will.

You could have applied this same reasoning to Kam last year and a bunch of other guys before him who got paid before their contracts ended. Fact is, paying your BEST PLAYERS what they're worth is wonderful for the organization. It's celebrated within the Seahawks. Playing the "franchise tag" game with them sets a terrible precedent for your young players and realistically only saves you a few million, at best, on the first year cap. The later years even out until the franchise tag eventually becomes even more expensive than the extension would've been. Good football teams are run like any other successful organization. If there's a way to reward your best employees that makes reasonable economic sense, you do it. PC/JS have talked frequently about "taking care" of their guys for several seasons now, and that means something to young players. That's not empty talk, and it won't be as long as they avoid taking the course of action you're suggesting.

Case in point: Michael Bennett said Sherman texted him constantly to talk him into re-signing with Seattle. Do you think Sherm does that if the organization hadn't already assured him he would be taken care long-term? Do you think he would even bother if he expected Seattle to franchise him?

 

[Sarlacc83]

We should save our money so we can save up for Revis's free agency in 3 years give or take a Patriots cut. We could have him sooner than we think!

 

[Tokadub]

Currently the Hawks have Sherm for 3 more years for an average yearly salary of just under $8.5 million.

2014: 1.431M
franchise 2015: 10,854M
franchise 2016: 13.025M

totaling just over 25 million.

Chrispy makes a good point there. We could get him for 3 years for 25 million which would free up enough cap space to retain some very good players like Baldwin, Avril, KJ Wright, Malcom Smith, Jermaine Kearse, and Sidney Rice.

I know some people seem to believe most those players are easily replaceable by rookies... but I kinda disagree, I think it's a pretty safe bet that any replacements would be a downgrade in talent and production. We could get lucky and improve maybe one or two of those guys, but it's kinda unlikely in my opinion.

Also, you guys do realize Sherman is 26 years old? So if we kept him for 3 years at 25 million like we could then he would be 29 years old. Does anyone really expect him to keep playing so well into his 30's? Like I said I think he's already hit his peak and will slowly decline from here on out, this decline could be accelerated by injury which I think is kinda likely with how physical he plays, how much smack he talks to opposing teams, and even our own guys like Kam and Thomas accidentally hit him quite frequently.

I do however think he deserves to be payed more but just not this year. Let him play out 2014 at 1.5 million. That would save us millions of dollars for next year to keep a guy like Baldwin or Avril. Then give him a 3 year deal which is a bit higher than the franchise tag IF he plays well enough in 2014. By the end of those 4 years Sherman will be 30 years old, I don't think it makes much sense to commit to him beyond that right now.

 

[renofox]

Currently the Hawks have Sherm for 3 more years for an average yearly salary of just under $8.5 million.

2014: 1.431M
franchise 2015: 10,854M
franchise 2016: 13.025M

totaling just over 25 million.

Also, you guys do realize Sherman is 26 years old? So if we kept him for 3 years at 25 million like we could then he would be 29 years old. Does anyone really expect him to keep playing so well into his 30's?

The 2013 FT number was $10.854m
The 2014 FT number is $11.834m
The 2015 FT number will probably be at least $13.0m (assuming flat increase, with large increase in salary cap it could be higher, especially with top corners currently on short-term deals)
The 2016 2nd year FT number (120%) will probably be at least $16.8m (same assumptions as above, but 18.0m is likely depending on circumstances).

So you're actually looking at 3 years for $31m minimum up to possibly the $33-38m range - and this on deals that do not allow for cap management. In addition, you're building negative goodwill among all team members and especially with the player you want to retain. GOOD LUCK getting him to sign a fair long-term deal when he's 29. At 29 he'll probably still have 3-5 good years left since he does not rely on blazing speed (which declines at that age) but rather technique (which improves).

I just don't think it's worth trying to -maybe- save a few million over 3 years when you have a chance to lock up a top playmaker for essentially his entire career.

 

[Tokadub]

So you're actually looking at 3 years for $31m minimum up to possibly the $33-38m range

I just don't think it's worth trying to -maybe- save a few million over 3 years when you have a chance to lock up a top playmaker for essentially his entire career.

It would only be 31+ million for 3 years if you franchised him this year right? My whole point was that we should let him play out 2014 for 1.5 million, and then if we franchised him in 2015 and 2016 it would be around the 25 million range not 31+ million right?

I kinda disagree with your projections for the franchise tag for Cornerback being 13 million in 2015 and 16-18 million in 2016. Aren't the franchise tags based on the top 5 paid guys at that position or something? I just don't think the 5 top paid guys will reach those numbers to establish such a high franchise tag, but I'm no expert.

I think there is a general shift in the NFL right now towards a balanced roster instead of just loading up a few players with tons of money. I don't think Cornerbacks are going to make that kind of money.

I'm not even saying we should franchise him necessarily. I'm just saying we should let him play out 2014 at 1.5 million and then decide what to do since we'll have a lot better of an idea where our money needs to go in 2015 after seeing how we do in 2014.

I think saving 8-12 million dollars by letting him play out 2014 at 1.5 million is the best move both financially and for our potential dynasty. If Sherman continues to play lights out he will get a nice deal in 2015, if not we will save who knows how many millions of dollars of guaranteed money if the worst case scenario happens to Sherman getting seriously injured in 2014.

I think the risk outweighs doing this just to make Sherman happy. He can make a ton of money from endorsements too and his own clothing line if he keeps playing so well, so I just don't think it's worth it for us to overpay him or to pay him before we need to.

 

[dontbelikethat]

“Whatever they feel I am due. I will take it as respect,” Sherman said. “It’s all about respect in this game and the only way people show respect is the dollars. We’ll see what happens.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... f-respect/