.SI Article....The turmoil in Seattle..any truth?

[Popeyejones]

Regular player's coach dynamics going on here.

You start out being too nice, encouraging individuality, and doing what works for you, and over time as things start to get out of control you try to reign it in, at which point people revolt.

It happens to nearly every teacher when they first start out. I've seen it when coaching football too.

Every organization, or classroom, or team has a crazy person who needs to be jettisoned or minimized to preserve the group.

If there's a whole group within the group acting crazy, though? Sorry, but that's a failure of leadership every single time.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I love all the comments foisting it back on the defense. I'm sure y'all have very constructive conversations with your significant others where you invoke their faults as a rebuttal to an obvious specific action of your own that caused disharmony. Foisting it back on the defense is basically "I can't hear you and won't and by the way I will be worse going forward, how you like them apples"

Not the defense, just the members of the defense that continued their childish negative behavior and couldn't, or didn't want to move on.

We all work, we all have bosses, we all work as a sum of a larger entity, both personally and professionally. There are certain things other expect out of us, and we should expect from ourselves when it comes to being one part of a larger whole.

- work hard
- be positive
- don't undermine authority

But pro athletes aren't like that. They've been told they walk on water since the 5th grade, so they don't have that maturity and humility (many of them, obviously not all) to back down and do the right thing.

In this case, the right thing was to shut the hell up, do your job and move on and try to win more SB's.

 

[jammerhawk]

I will always appreciate what these "sources" did for our franchise. I will cheer them when they raise the 12 flag, or when they are inducted into the Ring of Honor and/or Hall of Fame, etc., not for who they are as people, but the players they were for us on gameday.

The immaturity and lack of humility they demonstrate, however, is truly pathetic.

What Would Largent Do?

I completely agree and think this post acutely and accurately summarizes my thinking on this article.

The article in and of itself is weak sauce and offers little new insight into the differences on the team and the realities the coaching staff faced from the differences between the O and the D. We here are all aware of most of the 'issues' described in the article. The have been the subject of various threads here, Wilson is too white etc., Pete doesn't live his 'always compete' mantra with his staff and some players, etc., etc.. It was clear the several of the offensive players were from time to time PO'd with Bevell, by the middle fingers to the sideline; and Cable simply failed to meet any stated objective as the OLine coach, and Running game Coordinator. Both were given passes and that hurt the team. There were as well a good number of galactic ally stupid personnel decisions that belied the 'Always Compete' mantra.

These dumb decisions were corrosive to the team and rang false with players who had bought in who realized the HC wasn't living his stated philosophy. The article has kernels of real truth mixed with a a whole lot of immature whiny BS. Hopefully it is now old news.

Moving on Sherman, Bennett and few others who weren't in fact 'All In' are gone. This is old news and perhaps it was an opportunity lost. This is however just recycled old news and deserves to be regarded as just that Sherman and the others should be grateful to a team that provided for their success. They continue to sound whiny.

To me the more I read this stuff the more I like the Belichek top down coaching style as the freedom Pete allowed created a situation were inflated egos created a selfish mindset on the part of few self important players who felt they were better and of course smarter than their team. Perhaps Pete learned from this situation with any luck.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Didnt read the article yet but will. To me, it all comes back to the people on here that refused to see and admit there was a problem to begin with. Those are the people that are upset and mad that articles like this are coming out. Like somebody else mentioned, the 30 for 30 episode for this team will be interesting, and make no mistake about it, there will be one. Pete deserves the praise and thanks for building such a team, but he definitely deserves the criticism for allowing it to crumble also.

Yet the way people talk on here you'd think the only SuperBowl we'd been to was 49

Unfortunately, thats the one that will be most remembered and for good reason.

 

[mrt144]

I will always appreciate what these "sources" did for our franchise. I will cheer them when they raise the 12 flag, or when they are inducted into the Ring of Honor and/or Hall of Fame, etc., not for who they are as people, but the players they were for us on gameday.

The immaturity and lack of humility they demonstrate, however, is truly pathetic.

What Would Largent Do?

I completely agree and think this post acutely and accurately summarizes my thinking on this article.

The article in and of itself is weak sauce and offers little new insight into the differences on the team and the realities the coaching staff faced from the differences between the O and the D. We here are all aware of most of the 'issues' described in the article. The have been the subject of various threads here, Wilson is too white etc., Pete doesn't live his 'always compete' mantra with his staff and some players, etc., etc.. It was clear the several of the offensive players were from time to time PO'd with Bevell, by the middle fingers to the sideline; and Cable simply failed to meet any stated objective as the OLine coach, and Running game Coordinator. Both were given passes and that hurt the team. There were as well a good number of galactic ally stupid personnel decisions that belied the 'Always Compete' mantra.

These dumb decisions were corrosive to the team and rang false with players who had bought in who realized the HC wasn't living his stated philosophy. The article has kernels of real truth mixed with a a whole lot of immature whiny BS. Hopefully it is now old news.

Moving on Sherman, Bennett and few others who weren't in fact 'All In' are gone. This is old news and perhaps it was an opportunity lost. This is however just recycled old news and deserves to be regarded as just that Sherman and the others should be grateful to a team that provided for their success. They continue to sound whiny.

To me the more I read this stuff the more I like the Belichek top down coaching style as the freedom Pete allowed created a situation were inflated egos created a selfish mindset on the part of few self important players who felt they were better and of course smarter than their team. Perhaps Pete learned from this situation with any luck.

The thing is BB is top down but also apparently listens long and good to what's going on around him. https://deadspin.com/q-a-pepper-johnson ... 1828726414

And there is at least the instance of Butler where maybe that approach works an exceeding amount of the time but ties your hands in one spot where it could possibly have helped the overall team. Blame Butler, blame BB but regardless you're not going to be 100% in the right with any dogma.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

To say PC gave preferential treatment to Wilson but not to Lynch or defensive players was wrong. I recall Lynch and Bennett not having to attend OTA and practices without consequence, Sherman talking trash about management, Lynch giving the finger, etc... All undisciplined and poor leadership behaviors.
I know the defense claims "I got your back" while bickering amongst themselves.

So glad Wilson got Pete's back and vice versa when the bullets started flying.

 

[hawknation2018]

Didnt read the article yet but will. To me, it all comes back to the people on here that refused to see and admit there was a problem to begin with. Those are the people that are upset and mad that articles like this are coming out. Like somebody else mentioned, the 30 for 30 episode for this team will be interesting, and make no mistake about it, there will be one. Pete deserves the praise and thanks for building such a team, but he definitely deserves the criticism for allowing it to crumble also.

Yet the way people talk on here you'd think the only SuperBowl we'd been to was 49

Unfortunately, thats the one that will be most remembered and for good reason.

Don't you love it when people comment on stories they haven't read? :lol:

The only coach in franchise history to win a Super Bowl is given less respect than he has earned.

 

[hawknation2018]

To say PC gave preferential treatment to Wilson but not to Lynch or defensive players was wrong. I recall Lynch and Bennett not having to attend OTA and practices without consequence, Sherman talking trash about management, Lynch giving the finger, etc... All undisciplined and poor leadership behaviors.
I know the defense claims "I got your back" while bickering amongst themselves.

So glad Wilson got Pete's back and vice versa when the bullets started flying.

Very true about Marshawn and Bennett not having to practice.

 

[Scorpion05]

I love all the comments foisting it back on the defense. I'm sure y'all have very constructive conversations with your significant others where you invoke their faults as a rebuttal to an obvious specific action of your own that caused disharmony. Foisting it back on the defense is basically "I can't hear you and won't and by the way I will be worse going forward, how you like them apples"

My conversation with my significant other involves honesty. It also involves admitting when those honest feelings are wrong, and requires change and self reflection.

Even when Russell Wilson tried to bond with them, albeit I'm sure awkwardly, they perceived it with negative intentions. When you have a negative mindset you'll look at everything through a slanted lens. Not once are any of these players saying "Yea I was angry, yea I felt this way, but I was also wrong for contributing to a toxic locker room." The players basically tried to run the team, even walking into the front office and screaming "What the f*** are yall doing" ?? That's completely inappropriate. That's not mature at all. That is ALL ego, and it's indefensible. Some people are more obsessed with being right than GETTING it right.

 

[Thunderhawk]

After reading this "article" one troubling subtext emerges: Percy Harvin's bigoted accusation that "Russell isn't black enough" is still a factor for some players. There is no other logical reason that I can fathom for demonizing a Top 5 Pro Bowl QB than pure visceral prejudice.

Wilson has had the crap beaten out of him behind a terrible offensive line without once calling them out, yet made no excuses and still played at an elite level. How can you possibly resent him as a player apart from disliking his unconventional personality? It's incredible that in this so called 'age of inclusiveness' someone like Russ so deeply threatens certain players becaue he acts "too white" - whatever that means. He has been exemplary on and off the field and his teammates should recognize how vital he is to their success, but instead they seem preoccupied with some kind of racial litmus test. It's absurd.

And to those that think this is a misreading of the article, please present an alternate theory as to why Russell Wilson seems so reviled by some of his teammates despite being a borderline MVP candidate every year?

 

[mrt144]

I love all the comments foisting it back on the defense. I'm sure y'all have very constructive conversations with your significant others where you invoke their faults as a rebuttal to an obvious specific action of your own that caused disharmony. Foisting it back on the defense is basically "I can't hear you and won't and by the way I will be worse going forward, how you like them apples"

My conversation with my significant other involves honesty. It also involves admitting when those honest feelings are wrong, and requires change and self reflection.

Even when Russell Wilson tried to bond with them, albeit I'm sure awkwardly, they perceived it with negative intentions. When you have a negative mindset you'll look at everything through a slanted lens. Not once are any of these players saying "Yea I was angry, yea I felt this way, but I was also wrong for contributing to a toxic locker room." The players basically tried to run the team, even walking into the front office and screaming "What the f*** are yall doing" ?? That's completely inappropriate. That's not mature at all. That is ALL ego, and it's indefensible. Some people are more obsessed with being right than GETTING it right.

Well, that's the thing - a 20 something Sherman that has spent his life doing his thing and...getting away with it...because footbaw! would now have to find a way to communicate his desire for better out of his teammates in more constructive ways than drop F bombs. Maybe he was too wild a horse to break? Maybe completely at odds with Pete's vision or what the vision became when he had the pluckiest of optimists in his stead. Fully agree that Sherman wants to be right above all else (and for what it's worth, his actions were cathartic as hell to me even though I knew they were detrimental. To have a voice on the team pulling the threads I saw unraveling...it felt good to some extent to hear that voice). I just am a bit generous in thinking he doesn't know how and isn't equipped to turn that self righteousness into something positive.

 

[NJlargent]

The main point of this article is that Carroll mismanaged the team. No other factor led to the team's implosion more than the failure to fire someone after 49 and protect the team. You had a defense that carried the team to the SB and watched the offense throw it all away in one play and no one got fired. Some even criticized the defense for giving up a 10 point lead which is comical. That's a common sense recipe for an implosion.

That's just the thing though. The offense did their job, the defense did give up a 10 point lead. Most of the money was on the defense. They want to point all the criticism but literally take none of the blame

And sure, you can say Pete mismanaged the team. But I guess I lean a lot towards Pete's style of thinking. These are grown men. Be good to your fellow teammates and treat everyone with respect. As far as I'm concerned, the players letting their egos grow out of proportion is the problem. Pete brought this city a Super Bowl, his method worked. Is he Belicheck? No, neither is every other coach in history. Big freakin whoop. Yet the way people talk on here you'd think the only SuperBowl we'd been to was 49

It is a bit disingenuous to blame the defense for 49 when they shut down Rodgers 2 weeks prior and won that game while our offense slept for 3 quarters. That was a familiar tune for that entire season.

I don't necessarily disagree with the "grown men" comment and the immaturity, but the reality is that it still happened and a good coach keeps the team together. That is one of the most important characteristics of a coach.

I have no doubt that Lynch was drinking cognac after the SB and that he and Sherman were sulking and swearing and whatnot. These were also the same 2 guys who were responsible for Beastquake and the Tip, which are probably the 2 most memorable positive plays in team history. Yet nothing was done and the team collapsed. That has been beyond apparent since we failed to show up in the divisional round game against the Atlanta.

 

[chris98251]

This echos what many were saying here, it is now old news but all of us that were paying attention seen a shift of the team after that. Pete may take responsibility because he is the top guy, but the rift and how Wilson was treated and kid gloved was evident. That again goes to him on responsibility, I remember the game where he had to step in and get on Wilsons ass so to speak because Bevell couldn't or wouldn't.

The bad O line, the bad play calling and the bad QB coaching from Bevell I will say made the firings necessary, I am not sure why Richard was let go other then he was very close to the players on defense that were speaking out and may not of checked them as the DC.


Wilson is Wilson, he is a QB but as high asperations as a business guy and his image, does a lot of good things and may want the protection he gets as a part of his promotion of his business interests, just a guess. But with all that said he always seems a bit separated from the Guys so to speak. They don't doubt his toughness or his desire or how hard he works, just his associations internally as a guy on the team. He has his own penthouse at the facility and you need a pass to get an appointment is what I gathered from many comments in the article. That makes him a bit different from other teams QB's who rub shoulders with their team mates more often.


The Lynch interview not long back showed the teams respect for him as a player, but what this article states is the separation differences in how he was allowed to be treated differently in many aspects for accountability.

 

[mrt144]

After reading this "article" one troubling subtext emerges: Percy Harvin's bigoted accusation that "Russell isn't black enough" is still a factor for some players. There is no other logical reason that I can fathom for demonizing a Top 5 Pro Bowl QB than pure visceral prejudice.

Wilson has had the crap beaten out of him behind a terrible offensive line without once calling them out, yet made no excuses and still played at an elite level. How can you possibly resent him as a player apart from disliking his unconventional personality? It's incredible that in this so called 'age of inclusiveness' someone like Russ so deeply threatens certain players becaue he acts "too white" - whatever that means. He has been exemplary on and off the field and his teammates should recognize how vital he is to their success, but instead they seem preoccupied with some kind of racial litmus test. It's absurd.

And to those that think this is a misreading of the article, please present an alternate theory as to why Russell Wilson seems so reviled by some of his teammates despite being a borderline MVP candidate every year?

Read what Avril said. Does Avril seem like a dude with an axe to grind? He perceived a shift in treatment. Bennett and Sherman almost came to blows over it. I mean there is probably some of that Billy Paul song knocking around in the heads but that's a small thing that get's amplified by other things. One see's preferential treatment one starts looking at other things that validate that and seem like proximate causes of that treatment.

 

[Natethegreat]

Hey Sherman. Bye Felicia! Dude has no ability to critique his own failures (and the defenses many failures) but he sure does know how to point the finger and whine like a little child. This is nothing new. Sherman and Bennet should have been jettisoned 2 years earlier.

 

[Scorpion05]

LOVE this Field Gulls article. Completely captures my mood and what Pete has done for this team has not gone unnoticed by myself and other 12s. Doesn't mean that he's above criticism, but the ONLY team that has had better success in the Wilson/Carroll era is Belicheck's Patriots.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/9/7/178 ... ts-records

 

[hawknation2018]

After reading this "article" one troubling subtext emerges: Percy Harvin's bigoted accusation that "Russell isn't black enough" is still a factor for some players. There is no other logical reason that I can fathom for demonizing a Top 5 Pro Bowl QB than pure visceral prejudice.

Wilson has had the crap beaten out of him behind a terrible offensive line without once calling them out, yet made no excuses and still played at an elite level. How can you possibly resent him as a player apart from disliking his unconventional personality? It's incredible that in this so called 'age of inclusiveness' someone like Russ so deeply threatens certain players becaue he acts "too white" - whatever that means. He has been exemplary on and off the field and his teammates should recognize how vital he is to their success, but instead they seem preoccupied with some kind of racial litmus test. It's absurd.

And to those that think this is a misreading of the article, please present an alternate theory as to why Russell Wilson seems so reviled by some of his teammates despite being a borderline MVP candidate every year?

Read what Avril said. Does Avril seem like a dude with an axe to grind? He perceived a shift in treatment. Bennett and Sherman almost came to blows over it. I mean there is probably some of that Billy Paul song knocking around in the heads but that's a small thing that get's amplified by other things. One see's preferential treatment one starts looking at other things that validate that and seem like proximate causes of that treatment.

As I understood it, Avril does not feel that Russell Wilson was treated with any more preference than any other franchise QB.

He’s a defensive guy, but he’s a bit more even keeled and doesn’t have an interest in sabotaging the current team, like the 49ers/John Lynch/Richard Sherman/anonymous sources do.

 

[Schadie001]

Funny, because there have been more than a few games where Wilson drove the field in the final minutes of a game to put us on top only to have these same cry babies on D blow it with 2min or less left.

The problem with many of these guys is that they are always looking at ways to pin the blame on someone else. Who cares if THE single most important guy on a team is treated differently. You can only worry about you and your play. Take care of that and you have nothing to complain about.

 

[NorCalSeahawk]

Rinse, wash, repeat, is there nothing else to discuss by the media and these ex-players? There is about to be a brand new season and they are talking about a team that for the most part doesn’t exist anymore. New team, new year, time to look forward to the 2018-2019 season.

 

[mrt144]

After reading this "article" one troubling subtext emerges: Percy Harvin's bigoted accusation that "Russell isn't black enough" is still a factor for some players. There is no other logical reason that I can fathom for demonizing a Top 5 Pro Bowl QB than pure visceral prejudice.

Wilson has had the crap beaten out of him behind a terrible offensive line without once calling them out, yet made no excuses and still played at an elite level. How can you possibly resent him as a player apart from disliking his unconventional personality? It's incredible that in this so called 'age of inclusiveness' someone like Russ so deeply threatens certain players becaue he acts "too white" - whatever that means. He has been exemplary on and off the field and his teammates should recognize how vital he is to their success, but instead they seem preoccupied with some kind of racial litmus test. It's absurd.

And to those that think this is a misreading of the article, please present an alternate theory as to why Russell Wilson seems so reviled by some of his teammates despite being a borderline MVP candidate every year?

Read what Avril said. Does Avril seem like a dude with an axe to grind? He perceived a shift in treatment. Bennett and Sherman almost came to blows over it. I mean there is probably some of that Billy Paul song knocking around in the heads but that's a small thing that get's amplified by other things. One see's preferential treatment one starts looking at other things that validate that and seem like proximate causes of that treatment.

As I understood it, Avril does not feel that Russell Wilson was treated with any more preference than any other franchise QB.

He’s a defensive guy, but he’s a bit more even keeled and doesn’t have an interest in sabotaging the current team, like the 49ers/John Lynch/Richard Sherman/anonymous sources do.

And thats the point of distinction, isnt it? Sherman resented the shift because to him, even a franchise QB should be in the trenches getting crap on them. Avril and Bennett looked at the structural picture of the NFL and were like "yup, thats how it goes, deal with it"