Surprise rival for seahawks...

[Cartire]

Don't get me started on PFF. I'll just say briefly that, by presenting their subjective opinions through numerical scores, they've convinced a lot of people that their analysis is scientific and objective, which it clearly is not.

Lets be completely honest now. People who dont agree with PFF's rating system usually have a team or player they like being rated low. If you actually read through their "subjective" break down of their different formulas, you'll see how little subjectiveness is actually integrated into it.

No, they have rated certain Rams players (i.e. CBs) much higher than their actual play warranted. I think all of these combined objective/subjective analyses (I'd also include ESPN's "Total QBR") are pretty worthless.

Or was their play right where they were rated. And you as a fan dont breakdown the all-22 and just assume when they botch a few calls, they are less then they really are?

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

The Rams are indeed an "up & coming" force in the NFC-West. I really, really wanted the Seahawks to draft Steadman Bailey (who didn't go until the Rams second 3-rd round pick). Many assume that Bailey is a slot receiver due to his size however he was Mr Outside to Austin's Mr Inside. Statistically, Bailey was head and shoulders above nearly all of the other receivers in the draft and has been described as a Greg Jennings clone. Many said he was the "most ready to start" of any of the WR's in the draft. I think he will vastly outperform Austin as a WR this year, while Austin will make a great kick returner this year (and is actually a raw, developmental WR with speed and a positive upside).

""Bailey outproduced more ballyhooed teammate Tavon Austin in the West Virginia passing game, tallying 186 receptions for 2,901 yards (15.6 YPR) and 37 touchdowns over his final two seasons. Of Bailey's 148 targets, 72 went for a first down or touchdown in 2012, the highest rate among draft-eligible receivers. Bailey atones for his smallish stature and mediocre speed (4.52 forty) with technically sound routes and red-zone instincts. He was Geno Smith's go-to receiver in scoring position. The two Mountaineer receivers complement each other very well, and the Rams receiving group is one of the youngest in the league.""
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/CFB/130 ... man-Bailey

""The 2012 second team All-American had the stats to turn heads. Bailey's 113 catches, 1,627 yards and 25 TDs last year were remarkable, but his size turned off NFL scouts. Which is odd since Tavon Austin is two inches shorter than Bailey's 5'10". In 2006, another "short" receiver was taken, only he went in the second round. His name is Greg Jennings, and he went on to prove solid route running and glue like hands means more than a few inches in height"".
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2013/5/6/4 ... -nfl-draft

IMO: Steadman Bailey will be one to watch, Austin, not so much.

 

[RedAlice]

Here is the link for the Amendola TD requested above:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... plays-4150

Good link, but I think the comment was about seeing how Amendola slipped out of the huddle and whatnot to get to the corner in the first place.

He never left the field after the previous snap and just hung out there on the sideline. The field goal unit came out and he was still there on the field from the previous play.

It's the same thing Crabtree and Akers did agains the Rams the previous year.

"Crabtree pretended he was leaving the field before stopping a couple of yards shy of the 49ers' sideline. Kicker David Akers then lined up to try a field goal, took a direct snap and chucked a 14-yard touchdown pass to an uncovered Crabtree."

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/sports/ci_19659447

 

[AvengerRam]

Or was their play right where they were rated. And you as a fan dont breakdown the all-22 and just assume when they botch a few calls, they are less then they really are?

I really don't want to debate this issue and, in doing so, derail this thread.

Suffice to say, I have no problem with analysts giving a subjective evaluation based upon their observations and review of game film. I do have a problem when they assign numbers to those subjective views and publish them as if they are statistics.

So, whether PFF favors the Rams or not, I'm not a fan.

 

[Cartire]

Or was their play right where they were rated. And you as a fan dont breakdown the all-22 and just assume when they botch a few calls, they are less then they really are?

I really don't want to debate this issue and, in doing so, derail this thread.

Suffice to say, I have no problem with analysts giving a subjective evaluation based upon their observations and review of game film. I do have a problem when they assign numbers to those subjective views and publish them as if they are statistics.

So, whether PFF favors the Rams or not, I'm not a fan.

I know you dont want a debate. But the numbers arent subjective. Thats what im trying to explain. They are not an analysis's viewpoint assigning a number. Thats what ESPN and NFL do with top 10 rankings. Just read the formulas and you will see they are not subjective. Just cause you say they are subjective doesnt make it true.

 

[AvengerRam]

I've read them. They're subjective. Move on.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Eh, you're both right. They are subjective to a degree (how does ESPN figure that a QB should always take the statistical hit for taking a sack). However, only the weighting of the metrics used is subjective. They are at least based on actual statistical evidence. It's not like PFF changes or omits the actual statistical evidence itself.

Some people do have a problem with PFF's weighting and prefer FO and vice versa. Personally, I'm okay with using PFF because their formulas make generally good sense and, when taken in league with other formulas from FO and the words of experts like Greg Cosell, they tend to hold up well.

So, use a pattern of evidence rather than relying on just one metric, is what I would say.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Jake - you are exactly right and forget about the rookies even though by the end of the year they will be contributing in droves. The 2 guys to worry about are Chris Givens and Jared Cook - After that Brian Quick and Pettis who all have experience and then you throw in the quick slot 4.3 WR speedsters Tavon Austin and Stedman.

Add in the fact they upgraded their OL with Jake Long and the center/guard from Alabama and now you have weapons with time for a very accurate Sam Bradford to throw the ball too.

Now with the defense they added a stud LB in Ogletree (who runs like a deer to hunt down QBs) in the first round and McDonald at safety to go with that unreal DL that led the league in sacks last year. Long an Quinn are unreal.

S.F. has issues at WR and DL - I think by mid season the Rams are going to be a force and better than SF.

Take them lightly and you will get destroyed. They were 4-1-1 in the division last year.

And to think they have 2 first round picks in 2014 and 2 more in 2015. This division is going to be unbelievably tough.

Just one man's opinion.

Pretty conincing. I'm glad they have those picks, though, instead of what they traded away.

 

[RedAlice]

And to think they have 2 first round picks in 2014 and 2 more in 2015. This division is going to be unbelievably tough.

Just one man's opinion.

Pretty conincing. I'm glad they have those picks, though, instead of what they traded away.

Rams have the Skins' Round 1 pick in 2014. They do not have it in 2015.

 

[Cartire]

I've read them. They're subjective. Move on.

I want to apologize to you. This whole time, I thought we were talking about Football Outsiders Formulas and not ProFootballFocus. I dont know why I had that in my head but I did, and thusly why I was trying to defend it.

You are correct, PFF is subjective and analytical.

I stand corrected.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Wilson played football at a high level for 3 different teams in 3 years, from college to the NFL, and look what he did. Bradford is a bust as a #1 overall. Whether he can ever win a playoff game is debatable. Rams should draft a QB high next year.

That's nonsense. First of all, Wilson's college success is irrelevant to the discussion.

As for Sam, if you look at his numbers, they are comparable to guys like Drew Brees and Eli Manning early in their careers. There's no guarantee that he will progress like they did, but to write him off and declare that the Rams will be replacing him next year is just plain silly.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there. Now, I sorta like your contributions in here like others have already said. (You even mentioned you don't mean to derail the thread. That did not go unnoticed. When have we ever heard a Niner fan say that when talking about CK?) Just remember - put a post it note on next to your screen if you need to... "Thou shalt not use the term "irrelevant" and Russell Wilson EVER in the same sentence!" He's ALWAYS relevant.

btw, the 3 years included a year in the NFL with the Seahawks, so... it really was a point well made and honestly relevant to that part of the discussion. I didn't take it like it was said to completely trump the argument you're making... but, it was worth noting in comparison when the point was made that Bradford has dealt with turnstile coaches.

I don't think Bradford is a bust... for what it's worth. But, hopefully the Hawks make it look that way this year!

 

[RolandDeschain]

I don't think you can overestimate the adversity Bradford has faced. He has been hit at an astonishing rate due to a porous O Line and receivers who could not get open. A lot of QBs would not have survived under those circumstances.

Ok, now you're just sounding like a blind homer. Football Outsiders ranked O-line pass protection for the Rams at 13th in the league. Seahawks at 20th. ROOKIE QB Russell Wilson took 33 sacks behind the 20th-ranked line, and 3rd-year Bradford took 35 behind the 13th-ranked line.

My expectation for him this year is a passer rating above 90. If the offense stays relatively healthy and he can't achieve that mark, I'd be concerned.

Well, you're very likely to become concerned, then. He may still improve by a good margin, but I don't think it's more likely than not.

Don't forget, though Sam has been in the league for 3 years, he's only a year older than Wilson, and he's actually younger than Kaepernick.

Bradford choosing to enter the NFL early isn't an excuse to delay growth once he's in the National Football League.

 

[AvengerRam]

Anyone who thinks the Rams were the 13th best pass protecting team in the league last year needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new analysis.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Anyone who thinks the Rams were the 13th best pass protecting team in the league last year needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new analysis.

Yeah, it's much more likely that the guys at Football Outsiders don't know what they're doing with their line analysis than you. (Also, 13th isn't good, just the upper end of mediocre or average.)

:roll:

 

[AvengerRam]

Underestimate Sam if you want. I think you'll find it was misplaced.

Looks like you guys have more important things to talk about with the report on Harvin, so I'll say so long for now.

 

[Cartire]

Anyone who thinks the Rams were the 13th best pass protecting team in the league last year needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new analysis.

Yeah, it's much more likely that the guys at Football Outsiders don't know what they're doing with their line analysis than you. (Also, 13th isn't good, just the upper end of mediocre or average.)

:roll:

Got to remember Roland, its not his fault. The mantra for the team is to blame everyone but Bradford for 3 years now. Having decent producing positional groups goes against that idea.

 

[RichNhansom]

I think Bradford wasn't as NFL ready as advertised anf benefitted from a weak QB class but the other side of that is he really has been cast into a nearly no win scenario and has been asked to develop amongst the middle of it.

I don't know if he will become a top shelf/elite QB but he is moving into a better situation that should help him to grow. The question is have those first few years done to much damage?

Even if we see good growth from him this year this I wouldn't be surprised to see even more next year as the team matures around him.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I still give the biggest threat title to the Niners. That team has been trouble in the making for years. I credit Harbafreak, although little for at least getting the best out of a very talented group that just couldn't get a break in 09-10.

They are solid on the front of both sides of the ball with a QB that can make a difference. Still have Gore and Davis.

The Rams are trouble, but frankly, they got somewhat lucky that the Hawks didn't have 14 more points in game 1 and in game 2, taking no risks were able to move the ball quite well in the end. McCoy was directly responsible for the loss of 10 points in game 2 also.

I think the Rams get swept in 2013 and that we split with SF.

 

[rideaducati]

I agree with the OP. The more I look at the niner team, the more I see them fighting with the cards for third in the division.

If you look at the teams that the niners beat, you'll see that every one of them was either just plain bad or one dimensional. The teams they lost to were balanced. Well, they play a lot of balanced teams this season and I think they'll have troubles.

 

[rideaducati]

I totally agree with the OP. The more I look at the niner team, the more I see them fighting with the cards for third in the division.

If you look at the teams that the niners beat, you'll see that every one of them was either just plain bad or one dimensional. The teams they lost to were balanced. Well, they play a lot of balanced teams this season and I think they'll have troubles.