Three Little Birds On The OL (Speculation + Optimism)

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firebee

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MontanaHawk05":3s0skwvp said:
I can't convince myself that Pete is ready to let the whole "power running to wear you down" thing go, especially with Rawls not entirely proven as a workhorse. He won't want to stick to quick-firing spread unless he has to. So I'm more concerned with the run-blocking of our line that I am the pass blocking.

However, the entire OP is predicated on one of Sowell, Gilliam, or Webb matching Okung's ability at left tackle, and frankly, Okung wasn't horrible. He was a slightly above average left tackle. We've survived letting underrated linemen go (Carp, Breno, Unger) and then finding out what we lost by watching them succeed on other teams. I'm not sure left tackle, of all positions, is the one I want to tempt fate with now.

I'm thinking the depth we've obtained at OL is to give the front office freedom to adapt to the board, and not necessarily to get them out of drafting OL high.

BTW, I propose a "Mrs. Sowell" account nickname for firebee.

Hahaha... I'll take Mrs. Sowell, but I get half if we get a divorce.
 

AROS

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Seahwkgal":1df87x1j said:
I would love to be optimistic about the O Line. I really, really, want you to be right but I have a feeling that I am going to be spending most of the season praying that our QB can last the season and not be put on IR. Yes, I am that worried.

I want to see what we do in the draft. If we do the right thing, make the right selections then I will feel okay. If not? I'm with you sister.
 

Rob12

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Scottemojo":1p1vf4g9 said:
We are damn near a college program when it comes to the OL. No one is on the team more than 5 years, we have to redshirt half our linemen.

5 years tells me there is little reason for confidence. This O-line will have to be schemed around, not built around.

This. I appreciate the optimism from the OP, but let's be real here. The offensive line as it currently stands is one of the weakest position groups in the entire NFL. Roughly $9M spent on the offensive line, which is by far the least amount of money in the league.

It's a bad group - right now.

I like Gilliam a lot. Freak athlete for his size. Has a chance to stick at LT. We'll see. Britt is a bust at this point. I like Glowinski, but he's an unknown at this point.

The draft will be huge.

I don't hate that we didn't resign Okung. Obviously, he wasn't highly valued by our front office. But there's a lot of work to be done here.

Russell needs to get the ball out quick in 2016.
 

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vin.couve12":191n9bgb said:
And because the internet and jim beam....

scarface-quits-o.gif


Both Glorious things.
 

olyfan63

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hawkfan68":1xalpikr said:
I admire your posts firebee. However, I'm not confident that FO has an eye for OL talent. These are the guys who reached for Justin Britt in the 2nd round when he would have been there much later. They have had more misses on the OL than any other group. I hope that changes but their track record with the OL is very poor.

I'd like to think that Cable, Bevell, Carroll, and Schneider have learned some things about drafting OL talent, by virtue of learning from their past mistakes. We like to bash them for their OL screwups over the years, but the bottom line is the OL strategy has been highly successful for the TEAM, with six playoff wins and two Super Bowl appearances in the last 3 years. Most of us have concluded Pete's goal is to have a passably average NFL line on the cheap, to free up large chunks of cash for other parts of the roster.

If nothing else, the $6M/year contract that J. R. Sweezy signed is a HUGE validation of the Cable/Carroll school of NFL offensive line play. Converted DT gets big free agent contract as a veteran OL.

I know Carroll will never again fail to distinguish a guy with team-destructive mental health issues (Percy Harvin*) from a guy who just had a rough environment growing up (Bruce Irvin). So I expect Carroll and Cable, if nothing else, to at least make *different* mistakes in drafting/selecting offensive linemen, and to suck a little less at it each year. People especially put Cable in a box on this. I'd like to think Cable is a LOT smarter than that, and pays attention to the feedback of what works in the NFL, and we are still judging Tom Cable 1.0 even though the cable we now have is Cable 3.0.


*I had written past posts describing in detail how Harvin's behavior checks many boxes for Borderline Personality Disorder.
 

Seafan

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Possible Tackle considerations for the Hawks:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Ryan Clady, Will Beatty. Also, if the price is right, Joe Thomas.

Also, Will Pericak and Kona Schwenke are two names that haven't been mentioned much but are in the mix for camp.
 

RichNhansom

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The line needed to be reset. We have dealt with major injury issues through Wilson entire career and often at multiple positions at the same time. A couple years ago we had the highest line rotation in the league rolling out a new line nearly every week of the season. That had to change.

I do question if Sweezy would have been worth that 6 mill if he was playing next to a good center but I also suspect the FO doesn't believe it. I get the feeling Cable's speach about how great Sweezy was might have been a sells pitch to boost his value in FA so we could get a better comp pick but all the while knowing he wasn't worth the kind of money he would get.

My biggest concerns are still there though. I think the center is the key to success. A good center will improve guard play and create a pocket. A pocket Wilson can step into and avoid edge rushers as well as escaping out the front for gains rather than be chased around behind the LOS. Hopefully are first pick is on a good center. I think it is even more important than a LT.

We also have not found that dominant blocking TE. Maybe they think Cottom is that guy but it is a position that would dramatically improve O-line play. Maybe if Web and Britt win the tackle spots we move Gilliam into that role. He was a TE before and with his line experience he might be an amazing H-back type of player.

Tukuafu also needs to either greatly improve or be repaced.

Been saying it for a while now. Center, blocking TE and full back are key positions to help bolster the line. With good players in those three positions the rest will flourish.
 
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firebee

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RichNhansom":1l9haenx said:
The line needed to be reset. We have dealt with major injury issues through Wilson entire career and often at multiple positions at the same time. A couple years ago we had the highest line rotation in the league rolling out a new line nearly every week of the season. That had to change.

I do question if Sweezy would have been worth that 6 mill if he was playing next to a good center but I also suspect the FO doesn't believe it. I get the feeling Cable's speach about how great Sweezy was might have been a sells pitch to boost his value in FA so we could get a better comp pick but all the while knowing he wasn't worth the kind of money he would get.

My biggest concerns are still there though. I think the center is the key to success. A good center will improve guard play and create a pocket. A pocket Wilson can step into and avoid edge rushers as well as escaping out the front for gains rather than be chased around behind the LOS. Hopefully are first pick is on a good center. I think it is even more important than a LT.

We also have not found that dominant blocking TE. Maybe they think Cottom is that guy but it is a position that would dramatically improve O-line play. Maybe if Web and Britt win the tackle spots we move Gilliam into that role. He was a TE before and with his line experience he might be an amazing H-back type of player.

Tukuafu also needs to either greatly improve or be repaced.

Been saying it for a while now. Center, blocking TE and full back are key positions to help bolster the line. With good players in those three positions the rest will flourish.

I agree with you on interior needing to become an impenetrable force. As long as Wilson doesn't have guys blowing up the middle, he can usually escape the pass rushers that get around the back-end on the edge. Also agree on FB and TE needing to have some spark added. I'd love to see us pick up Dan Vitale out of Northwestern and Beau Sandland out of Montana St. Both are well rounded players with a ton of upside. I'm also kind of liking Vitale as a powerback option for us to compliment Rawls in the same way Alstott complimented Dunn and Bettis complimented Parker.
 

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firebee":1n5oguvu said:
RichNhansom":1n5oguvu said:
The line needed to be reset. We have dealt with major injury issues through Wilson entire career and often at multiple positions at the same time. A couple years ago we had the highest line rotation in the league rolling out a new line nearly every week of the season. That had to change.

I do question if Sweezy would have been worth that 6 mill if he was playing next to a good center but I also suspect the FO doesn't believe it. I get the feeling Cable's speach about how great Sweezy was might have been a sells pitch to boost his value in FA so we could get a better comp pick but all the while knowing he wasn't worth the kind of money he would get.

My biggest concerns are still there though. I think the center is the key to success. A good center will improve guard play and create a pocket. A pocket Wilson can step into and avoid edge rushers as well as escaping out the front for gains rather than be chased around behind the LOS. Hopefully are first pick is on a good center. I think it is even more important than a LT.

We also have not found that dominant blocking TE. Maybe they think Cottom is that guy but it is a position that would dramatically improve O-line play. Maybe if Web and Britt win the tackle spots we move Gilliam into that role. He was a TE before and with his line experience he might be an amazing H-back type of player.

Tukuafu also needs to either greatly improve or be repaced.

Been saying it for a while now. Center, blocking TE and full back are key positions to help bolster the line. With good players in those three positions the rest will flourish.

I agree with you on interior needing to become an impenetrable force. As long as Wilson doesn't have guys blowing up the middle, he can usually escape the pass rushers that get around the back-end on the edge. Also agree on FB and TE needing to have some spark added. I'd love to see us pick up Dan Vitale out of Northwestern and Beau Sandland out of Montana St. Both are well rounded players with a ton of upside. I'm also kind of liking Vitale as a powerback option for us to compliment Rawls in the same way Alstott complimented Dunn and Bettis complimented Parker.

I like the idea of the power back but hopefully someone with good hands because that player won't signal a play design. Kind of the same way I understand the H-back.

If Gilliam does end up at LT I hope they make him eligeable on every play. Seems like a great screen play option. Especially if you have that power/H-back there to pick up his assignment if needed.
 

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I will never accuse Spencer of being an All Pro, but he's adequate if not ideal. With him, the progression of Glo (and maybe Poole), and the addition of the new guys, I feel ok about our interior. Gilliam actually came on at RT and I don't mind if he stays there, frankly. That means LT. At this point I don't think we have our opening day answer, but we still have time and options.

Gilliam might be the plan at LT, but for the sake of continuity I think keeping him where he is makes a lot of sense. Perhaps we draft our long-term answer at LT and he Gilliam can be our Plan B...I dunno. My point is that if we find a bit more depth and competition at T, especially LT, then I think we will be much better as a unit than the debacle that started last season. That's reason for optimism.
 
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firebee

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RichNhansom":2zx83pn6 said:
firebee":2zx83pn6 said:
RichNhansom":2zx83pn6 said:
The line needed to be reset. We have dealt with major injury issues through Wilson entire career and often at multiple positions at the same time. A couple years ago we had the highest line rotation in the league rolling out a new line nearly every week of the season. That had to change.

I do question if Sweezy would have been worth that 6 mill if he was playing next to a good center but I also suspect the FO doesn't believe it. I get the feeling Cable's speach about how great Sweezy was might have been a sells pitch to boost his value in FA so we could get a better comp pick but all the while knowing he wasn't worth the kind of money he would get.

My biggest concerns are still there though. I think the center is the key to success. A good center will improve guard play and create a pocket. A pocket Wilson can step into and avoid edge rushers as well as escaping out the front for gains rather than be chased around behind the LOS. Hopefully are first pick is on a good center. I think it is even more important than a LT.

We also have not found that dominant blocking TE. Maybe they think Cottom is that guy but it is a position that would dramatically improve O-line play. Maybe if Web and Britt win the tackle spots we move Gilliam into that role. He was a TE before and with his line experience he might be an amazing H-back type of player.

Tukuafu also needs to either greatly improve or be repaced.

Been saying it for a while now. Center, blocking TE and full back are key positions to help bolster the line. With good players in those three positions the rest will flourish.

I agree with you on interior needing to become an impenetrable force. As long as Wilson doesn't have guys blowing up the middle, he can usually escape the pass rushers that get around the back-end on the edge. Also agree on FB and TE needing to have some spark added. I'd love to see us pick up Dan Vitale out of Northwestern and Beau Sandland out of Montana St. Both are well rounded players with a ton of upside. I'm also kind of liking Vitale as a powerback option for us to compliment Rawls in the same way Alstott complimented Dunn and Bettis complimented Parker.

I like the idea of the power back but hopefully someone with good hands because that player won't signal a play design. Kind of the same way I understand the H-back.

If Gilliam does end up at LT I hope they make him eligeable on every play. Seems like a great screen play option. Especially if you have that power/H-back there to pick up his assignment if needed.

Vitale does have good hands. Was used as a "Superback" at Northwestern, which is kind of a H-Back type.
 

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I'm with ya bee, take Kelly, G & DT the first 3 picks and "every little thing is gonna be alright."
 

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I'm a big fan of Vitals because of his versatility, athleticism and attitude. I think he'd be a good 3rd down back with good hands and blocking. He's played all over on offense.

I'm also high on Braunecker from Harvard for the same reasons, the biggest difference is that Braunecker is primarily a TE. Both are slated to go around the 6th round. I personally prefer Vitals due to his size for blocking in the 3rd down back role but I think there's a role for both on this team.
 

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kearly":21kqpbvj said:
unless they are extremely high on Garry Gilliam, for which I see scant evidence

Scant evidence?

What about letting Okung and Bailey move on? What about moving Britt's position to get Gilliam in the lineup? What about the fact that the FAs we have signed look more like RT or G than LT? What about the very positive quotes from Cable about Gilliam's talent/Performance?

I'm not saying they won't draft a LT in round 1, and I would be more than fine with that. But unless you're holding a top-10 pick I don't think you'd go in to the draft expecting to fill LT with a rookie, especially if you aren't somewhat okay with the existing talent.

Likely they will draft someone to compete at both tackle spots, but if they weren't pretty high on Gilliam they wouldn't be going in to the draft with pretty much no one else to play LT if the draft doesn't pan out.
 

kearly

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A-Dog":1lg5g78b said:
What about letting Okung and Bailey move on? What about moving Britt's position to get Gilliam in the lineup? What about the fact that the FAs we have signed look more like RT or G than LT? What about the very positive quotes from Cable about Gilliam's talent/Performance?

Okung was over-priced and undependable. Bailey stunk and didn't want to be here. Britt was supposed to start at RT but SUUUUCKED. LT free agents cost a fortune, the draft is far far far far far more viable. Tom Cable hasn't really praised Gilliam all that much, and even if he did, it would be from the same guy that lavished praise on Mike Person and Drew Nowak, and the same guy who said that the 2015 OL group was the best he had ever had.

Tom Cable is nuts enough to do it, I just don't see a ton of evidence that makes me think he is nuts over Garry Gilliam. I think if their plan was for Gilliam to be the future at LT then we'd see both Cable and the FO talking up Gilliam as a LT at every turn to massage the public, the same way they have for guys like Drew Nowak.

Their silence on Gilliam this offseason leads me to suspect that Gilliam is not plan A for left tackle. I think they view him as a guy who adds competition and depth at this point.
 

A-Dog

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Since Okung signed for exactly zero guaranteed dollars, and gave the Seahawks a chance to match before signing, I don't see how we can call him overpriced. Bailey certainly wasn't a world beater but we gave him starts at LT and won with him in there. Britt sucked at RT but he wasn't any better at LG and, well, we made it within a play of a 2nd straight title with him starting at RT. Cable pretty much said when Gilliam is on his game he can't be beaten to the edge... I don't have the exact quote but it was pretty high praise.

At any rate, I guess the argument here is whether Gilliam is plan A or plan B. Either way the organization must have some level of faith in him if they aren't doing anything else pre-draft to bolster the most important position on offense after QB.
 

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A-Dog":2jhi3uzm said:
kearly":2jhi3uzm said:
unless they are extremely high on Garry Gilliam, for which I see scant evidence

Scant evidence?

What about letting Okung and Bailey move on? What about moving Britt's position to get Gilliam in the lineup? What about the fact that the FAs we have signed look more like RT or G than LT? What about the very positive quotes from Cable about Gilliam's talent/Performance?

I'm not saying they won't draft a LT in round 1, and I would be more than fine with that. But unless you're holding a top-10 pick I don't think you'd go in to the draft expecting to fill LT with a rookie, especially if you aren't somewhat okay with the existing talent.

Likely they will draft someone to compete at both tackle spots, but if they weren't pretty high on Gilliam they wouldn't be going in to the draft with pretty much no one else to play LT if the draft doesn't pan out.

My women's intuition told me Gilliam's been groomed to be LT since 2014. And I had never even considered A dog's points.
 

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A-Dog":3smatvop said:
Since Okung signed for exactly zero guaranteed dollars, and gave the Seahawks a chance to match before signing, I don't see how we can call him overpriced. Bailey certainly wasn't a world beater but we gave him starts at LT and won with him in there. Britt sucked at RT but he wasn't any better at LG and, well, we made it within a play of a 2nd straight title with him starting at RT. Cable pretty much said when Gilliam is on his game he can't be beaten to the edge... I don't have the exact quote but it was pretty high praise.

At any rate, I guess the argument here is whether Gilliam is plan A or plan B. Either way the organization must have some level of faith in him if they aren't doing anything else pre-draft to bolster the most important position on offense after QB.

I believe with Wilson in our offense, the second most important position is Center...I'm hoping they get Ryan Kelly at #26.
 
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