We Are STILL In Disbelief And Denial In Bronco Country

[MizzouHawkGal]

In my earlier post, I had the Niners beating the Broncos by 17 in a higher scoring game, but that was a lazy post. Our teams are so evenly matched, it was lazy analysis to speculate the Niners beat the Broncos easy( I still think they do, but not as easily).

Here's the question: how do we think Arizona matches up with them ? Not to hijack the thread, but AZ's secondary is better than the Niners and I honestly think their defense is more physical across the board. The Niners have the better offense though, but with Fitz and co. at WR, they have a better WR corps. Does Palmer slice up the Broncos' weak secondary ?

If Palmer doesn't throw interceptions I believe Arizona wins by 10-14 points their pass rush is as good or better than ours and you get Fitzgerald against that secondary. Arizona wins.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

In my earlier post, I had the Niners beating the Broncos by 17 in a higher scoring game, but that was a lazy post. Our teams are so evenly matched, it was lazy analysis to speculate the Niners beat the Broncos easy( I still think they do, but not as easily).

Here's the question: how do we think Arizona matches up with them ? Not to hijack the thread, but AZ's secondary is better than the Niners and I honestly think their defense is more physical across the board. The Niners have the better offense though, but with Fitz and co. at WR, they have a better WR corps. Does Palmer slice up the Broncos' weak secondary ?

If Palmer doesn't throw interceptions I believe Arizona wins by 10-14 points their pass rush is as good or better than ours and you get Fitzgerald against that secondary. Arizona wins.

Yeah a lot of how Cards v. Donkeys plays out will depend on Palmer. But that D will keep AZ in the game.

 

[rideaducati]

Best of luck next year when your broncos have to play the NFC West in the regular season. If your broncos make it to the Superbowl, at least they will have been tested, unlike this season.

 

[hawkfan1975]

No. No, they don't beat the Panthers (Denver).

This year, there was nothing your team could have done to beat these Hawks. They set out for the trophy since season start and were not leaving without it.
I don't think underestimating Seattle's offense that game is honest either.

That said any team can come together to make it's run. That's why this is a team sport. GL!

 

[Hawkscanner]

I'll add a bit to what Scott shared earlier. I would have to concur with his assessment that Peyton Manning's lack of arm strength was a HUGE factor in that game. Seattle's Defense as a whole (as you clearly saw) is a completely different kind of animal in terms of their sheer speed, athleticism, and instincts. They typically thrash weak armed QB's, as the Legion of Boom is just too darned fast and reacts with such stunning quickness that they generally tend to neutralize those kind of guys. Peyton is at the point of his career where that lack of zip on the ball is really going to cost him against a secondary like Seattle's.

Additionally, I'd also say that the lack of speed from the Broncos WR's as a whole (outside of Demaryius Thomas) really played a factor as well. Guys like Welker and J. Thomas just simply weren't going to get separation against the Legion of Boom.

And when you couple all of that with the kind of pass rush that Seattle showed they could generate down the stretch, it was pretty much going to be good night.

That said, the biggest single factor in that game (to me in my opinion) was Peyton Manning himself. What I'm going to say might sound a bit crazy to some, but in many ways I'd argue that Manning really cost the Broncos the game. I don't know if you ever saw that Sound FX Version of the game that came out (if not, you can PM me and I can send you a copy of it), but that was extremely revealing to me as you not only saw ... but could also hear what players were saying. Right from the get go, it was abundantly clear that the botched snap on the first play of the game really rattled Peyton. He kept harping on it on the sideline again and again -- it really bothered him -- and he stressed from that point (because of the crowd noise) that they were going to have to go with silent count.

It seemed to me like in essence that all week long Manning and the Broncos had been preparing for Plan A and expecting that Plan A was what was going to happen. After it became clear that Plan A wasn't going to work, it really appeared to me that Peyton was trying to scrap together a Plan B on the fly ... and really was unable to do that. What's additionally surprising to me is that for all the accolades that we heap on Peyton Manning -- praise him for being basically a coach on the field, a virtual football Borg that can recognize and adapt to anything -- is that he was seemingly totally unaware that Sherman and company had figured out his little "Omaha" tricks, all his little hand signals, and basically KNEW what play/routes were coming. Sherman and those guys were many times running the routes better than the Broncos receivers. For a guy with the reputation and pedigree of Manning to be seemingly unaware that they had figured him out (or was seemingly unable to adapt by giving them double counts or changing it up somehow) to me is quite shocking. How the heck does Manning not figure that out? It's undoubtedly completely and totally unfair, but I found myself questioning a lot of what I had come to believe about Peyton Manning. In this game, he struck me as a guy who if things go according to plan/to script -- he looks like a Hall of Famer. If he's expecting X and gets Y though -- he struggles to adapt on the fly. Again, that may be an inaccurate and/or unfair assessment, but based upon Manning's comments during the game, body language, and actual on field results that's what I would say ultimately cost the Broncos the Super Bowl.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

I'll add a bit to what Scott shared earlier. I would have to concur with his assessment that Peyton Manning's lack of arm strength was a HUGE factor in that game. Seattle's Defense as a whole (as you clearly saw) is a completely different kind of animal in terms of their sheer speed, athleticism, and instincts. They typically thrash weak armed QB's, as the Legion of Boom is just too darned fast and reacts with such stunning quickness that they generally tend to neutralize those kind of guys. Peyton is at the point of his career where that lack of zip on the ball is really going to cost him against a secondary like Seattle's.

Additionally, I'd also say that the lack of speed from the Broncos WR's as a whole (outside of Demaryius Thomas) really played a factor as well. Guys like Welker and J. Thomas just simply weren't going to get separation against the Legion of Boom.

And when you couple all of that with the kind of pass rush that Seattle showed they could generate down the stretch, it was pretty much going to be good night.

That said, the biggest single factor in that game (to me in my opinion) was Peyton Manning himself. What I'm going to say might sound a bit crazy to some, but in many ways I'd argue that Manning really cost the Broncos the game. I don't know if you ever saw that Sound FX Version of the game that came out (if not, you can PM me and I can send you a copy of it), but that was extremely revealing to me as you not only saw ... but could also hear what players were saying. Right from the get go, it was abundantly clear that the botched snap on the first play of the game really rattled Peyton. He kept harping on it on the sideline again and again -- it really bothered him -- and he stressed from that point (because of the crowd noise) that they were going to have to go with silent count.

It seemed to me like in essence that all week long Manning and the Broncos had been preparing for Plan A and expecting that Plan A was what was going to happen. After it became clear that Plan A wasn't going to work, it really appeared to me that Peyton was trying to scrap together a Plan B on the fly ... and really was unable to do that. What's additionally surprising to me is that for all the accolades that we heap on Peyton Manning -- praise him for being basically a coach on the field, a virtual football Borg that can recognize and adapt to anything -- is that he was seemingly totally unaware that Sherman and company had figured out his little "Omaha" tricks, all his little hand signals, and basically KNEW what play/routes were coming. Sherman and those guys were many times running the routes better than the Broncos receivers. For a guy with the reputation and pedigree of Manning to be seemingly unaware that they had figured him out (or was seemingly unable to adapt by giving them double counts or changing it up somehow) to me is quite shocking. How the heck does Manning not figure that out? It's undoubtedly completely and totally unfair, but I found myself questioning a lot of what I had come to believe about Peyton Manning. In this game, he struck me as a guy who if things go according to plan/to script -- he looks like a Hall of Famer. If he's expecting X and gets Y though -- he struggles to adapt on the fly. Again, that may be an inaccurate and/or unfair assessment, but based upon Manning's comments during the game, body language, and actual on field results that's what I would say ultimately cost the Broncos the Super Bowl.

You only need to look as far as your own comment about his arm strength, and you can see how hard it would have been for him to adapt to what we were doing. He had all of his short passes available, but we erased all of the YAC that he normally depends on. We also pretty much shut down their running game, so the remaining option was to go deep, but, as you already concurred with, he lacks the arm strength.

Add the fact that has no wheels, and it's tough to even let the double moves that Sherman said might have worked against us develop. So really the problem was not between Peyton's ears; it was in his arm and his legs.

 

[olyfan63]

If he wants to win again he needs to have that Elway style want, drive and dynamic he had late in his super bowl runs.

Certainly in the first Broncos Super Bowl victory, over Green Bay, it was much more Terrell Davis and that big-time running game they had, more so than Elway.
IIRC, it was Coach Mike Shanahan and the Zone Blocking scheme, that made it seem like Denver made, well, a Denver omelet out of NFL run defenses, slicing and dicing them like peppers and onions. Terrell Davis was awesome, but then it seemed whoever they put back there was the next 1500 yard rusher, 5 yard average runs.

One way Broncos could have a shot ... they'd need that overpowering O-Line and a Terell-Davis-like back. In the SB, we largely disregarded the run and played the pass.

 

[olyfan63]

It was a perfect match-up for Seattle. They had guys to match up with every weapon on Denver's offense and Manning didn't have the arm to challenge them deep. The run game was no threat. That's a recipe for disaster against Seattle. I think anyone who paid close attention to Seattle sort of figured this out. Seattle is built to stop the pass; Denver does nothing but win with the pass. Seattle's offense was also underrated. They blew out every below average secondary they saw this year. Your defense just isn't good enough. No one on your D would start for Seattle, except MAYBE Knighton.

To be honest, I think San Francisco would have been a better match-up for you, ESPECIALLY without Bowman. Your team doesn't necessarily have to re-invent the wheel -- just hope you don't face Seattle again.

The OP needs to take note of everything you and ScotteMojo said.

I knew the Broncos would load up and stuff our running game. I was hoping, betting, that Pete and Bevell would come out with an agressive, passing-oriented offensive game plan, to take advantage of that. They did. The secondary and linebackers were Denver's weakness against our Offense. It was amusing how little attention the national media idiots paid to to the Seattle Offense vs Denver Defense. Denver missing #1 pass rusher, missing #1 corner; thin, slow, and old on DB's--pass defense was an obvious Bronco weakness.

My worst fear was that Pete would have a macho man thing for running the ball instead of just attacking Denver's obvious weakness in pass defense.

Since Denver had no "Plan B" when their all-time #1 offense got stuffed, it was a blowout. The Seahawks had the relative luxury of trying plan A, run the ball, having it get stuffed, but then had an excellent Plan B (passing attack) all prepared and ready to go.

I think San Fran would have beaten the Broncos too, maybe 27-17 or so. Kaepernick's running would be murder on the Bronco defense. It would just be a loss, not a blowout loss.

 

[olyfan63]

Or maybe play ANYONE with an actual defense? It could get real ugly once you play Arizona and St.Louis their pass rush makes us look like the junior varsity.

Please... No pass rush in the NFL can make ours look JV. I don't care who they are. Get real.

Get real. Robert Quinn and the Rams DID make our *O-LINE* look the the JV's. I think that's what the OP was saying. You are certainly right that our D-Line is excellent.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

Adding to the conversation of Peyton's impact in the locker room, Colts punter Pat McAfee was on set at the combine yesterday. When asked to compare/contrast Manning and Luck (because he has played with both), McAfee said the elder was "a robot" and the younger was "more intelligent, and just a regular guy."

It sounded like teammates believe in Peyton's ability and knowledge, but with Luck they do that AND they like being around him. There is something to be said for inspiring your teammates, not just having high expectations and intolerance for error.

Russell Wilson outworks and out-prepares everyone here, but he is not "above" his teammates in any way.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I just wonder after watching the game a couple times in the last 2 days, why did Peyton take all the snaps even when the game was over? At 5 mins left, he should have let the backup in and let him get some experience. I just copied my recording over to keep for posterity.