Well done Darrell Bevell & Tom Cable

[Threedee]

Does this mean that Olde Bevell is dead, and buried in the basement of the VMAC with his SB XLIX LVP trophy, and that PCJS have engineered a new FrankenBevell with which to run the offense?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Does this mean that Olde Bevell is dead, and buried in the basement of the VMAC with his SB XLIX LVP trophy, and that PCJS have engineered a new FrankenBevell with which to run the offense?

No it means when the O-line actually blocks, Russell and the receivers make great plays and we don't make dumb mistakes with penalties and turnovers the offense looks good.

That's how it works. Bad execution and mistakes makes any O-coordinator look bad.

 

[dogorama]

:229031_shrug: From time to time a clear and persistent example of resentment for a coordinator/coach/player along with intolerance toward the views of fans who independently appreciate their work and play makes itself known.

If you are referring to me Jville, it isn't that I have a "resentment for a coordinator/coach/player along with intolerance toward the views of fans who independently appreciate their work," not at all, but I, and others like me, have a right to our opinion as well and it feels like they are the ones who are intolerant.

My point in my last two posts was that I didn't agree that a stat or an article by a blogger validated Bevell's effectiveness. Is that so bad? I didn't call anyone stupid or anything, and in fact, I said that I respected their opinion.

I don't think that Bevell is necessarily a bad OC but I do think he has periods of very predictable play calling that limits the offense. That doesn't mean that I want him fired or that we should call him disrespectful names, it just means that I have an opinion. Apparently, I am not alone.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Or last year where they had the #1 offense in the league?

Where was that #1 offense in the playoffs, and against the Rams at the end of the year?

What a poor counter.

Like saying the Cardinals offense sucks because they were crappy against Carolina in the playoffs and week 17 vs Seattle.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

#1 offense in the league? Talk about a skewed stat, where does this come from? Certainly not from reality

DVOA.

They've been top-10 for four years and #1 in 2015.

Might be skewed because it doesn't suit a particular side of the debate or agenda -- but I don't know a better and more respected way of judging teams than Football Outsiders' way of doing things.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

#1 offense in the league? Talk about a skewed stat, where does this come from?

Their offense was ranked #1 by DVOA, which is the most cited and objective stat in the business.

Here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2015

Thanks!

Even top-5 would be cool but that's amazing, considering how they measure it with taking opponents' strengths into account.

 

[Fade]

Or last year where they had the #1 offense in the league?

Where was that #1 offense in the playoffs, and against the Rams at the end of the year?

What a poor counter.

Like saying the Cardinals offense sucks because they were crappy against Carolina in the playoffs and week 17 vs Seattle.

Nope.

I am saying what good is a #1 offensive ranking, if that unit falters every time they face real competition.

Like if the Jets manhandle them come Sunday for example. If this ends up being the case, are you seriously going to say "It don't matter because the Seahawks have the #1 DVOA Offense last year." LMAO

 

[DavidSeven]

I am saying what good is a #1 offensive ranking, if that unit falters every time they face real competition.

DVOA factors in strength of the opponent's defense, so that is accounted for in their #1 ranking.

Basically every team struggles against good defenses. That's why they're good defenses. Seattle's DVOA ranking actually suggests it faltered the least against "real competition" of any team last year.

 

[Fade]

I am saying what good is a #1 offensive ranking, if that unit falters every time they face real competition.

DVOA factors in strength of the opponent's defense, so that is accounted for in their #1 ranking.

Basically every team struggles against good defenses. That's why they're good defenses. Seattle's DVOA ranking actually suggests it faltered the least against "real competition" of any team last year.

I know what DVOA is. This team hasn't won a game against a Top D in a long time. Since Marshawn Lynch -> pre-2015.

 

[hawk45]

Fade is right, if we are being real here none of us have confidence in our O going against a top tier DL whatever DVOA says.
This year's team feels ahead of schedule a little because last year we were making even crappy DLs look great, and we didn't do that v the Niners, but I expect the O to be cover-our-eyes bad vs top DLs and the only question is whether this year we might improve to barely functioning by the playoffs against that type of D.
Retaining just one of our OL pieces (Okung) would have made a big difference IMO. Okung and Ifedi plus Britt until he remembers he is Justin Britt, that's enough to anchor the weak spots.
I'd rather have Pete and JS adjust their approach a scoche than do anything with coordinators. I'd be willing to give up a beast like Graham even because the cap has to come from somewhere.

 

[DavidSeven]

I know what DVOA is. This team hasn't won a game against a Top D in a long time. Since Marshawn Lynch -> pre-2015.

Again, DVOA factors in opponent strength. So, if you think Seattle can't score on top defenses, well the statistics say 31 other teams are worse than them at scoring on good competition.

Last season:

Scored 30+ on Arizona twice, winning the season finale. #3 Ranked Defense.

Scored 24+ on Panthers twice, losing both. #2 Ranked Defense.

Beat Pittsburgh 39-30. #11 Ranked Defense.

Beat Minnesota 38-7. #14 Ranked Defense.

 

[Fade]

I know what DVOA is. This team hasn't won a game against a Top D in a long time. Since Marshawn Lynch -> pre-2015.

Again, DVOA factors in opponent strength. So, if you think Seattle can't score on top defenses, well the statistics say 31 other teams are worse than them at scoring on good competition.

Last season:

Scored 30+ on Arizona twice, winning the season finale. #3 Ranked Defense.

Scored 24+ on Panthers twice, losing both. #2 Ranked Defense.

Beat Pittsburgh 39-30. #11 Ranked Defense.

Beat Minnesota 38-7. #14 Ranked Defense.

All I see are L's & a couple of Asterisks. Let's go through the games shall we.

1st game against AZ = L.

two Panther's Games = L & L.

Pittsburgh = W. Cool. You got me here.

two Ram's games #7 = L & L.

Cincinnati Bengals #10 = L.

Green Bay Packers #9 = L

AZ week 17 = *

Minnesota. I know you know this, and I shouldn't have to point it out, but they were missing at least 3 Star players on D that game. = * Anthony Barr, Linval Joseph, & Harrison Smith, maybe it was more, that's all I can remember off the top of my head.
Re-Match in the playoffs, played out much different, their kicker chokes = *

Rams week 2 this year = L.

I see a pattern of Seahawks losses against top D's.

Again, What does it matter what you're ranked if you lose?

but... but... but... it's okay guys, because we're number 1 in DVOA. LMAO.

The Jets were #5 last year BTW. Which will make this Sunday interesting.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

This place needs a 'banging head against a brick wall' smilie.

 

[StoneCold]

This place needs a 'banging head against a brick wall' smilie.

:229031_banghead:

As you wish.

 

[StoneCold]

Part of the problem with the Bevel threads is that we simply disagree. On one side are people who think our Offensive ineptitude can be laid at Bevel's feet. The other thinks it's more complicated than that and that regardless of the play that's called the players have to execute. Weeding through a play and figuring out where it went wrong is not easy and there are times when the play call is bad. No OC gets it right 100% of the time. When the pro Bevel crowd points out that history and statistics show that he and the team get it right more often than they don't, the con side says no and uses anecdotal evidence of individual games where we struggled. And most of those teams cited, that we struggle against, most teams struggle against.

This is the NFL, any given Sunday that weird shaped ball can bounce the wrong way. You just try to get it right more than you get it wrong. Has this coaching staff done that?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Part of the problem with the Bevel threads is that we simply disagree. On one side are people who think our Offensive ineptitude can be laid at Bevel's feet. The other thinks it's more complicated than that and that regardless of the play that's called the players have to execute. Weeding through a play and figuring out where it went wrong is not easy and there are times when the play call is bad. No OC gets it right 100% of the time. When the pro Bevel crowd points out that history and statistics show that he and the team get it right more often than they don't, the con side says no and uses anecdotal evidence of individual games where we struggled. And most of those teams cited, that we struggle against, most teams struggle against.

This is the NFL, any given Sunday that weird shaped ball can bounce the wrong way. You just try to get it right more than you get it wrong. Has this coaching staff done that?

If the Bevell haters were right then our offense would stink all the time, every year and Russell wouldn't be the Pro Bowl elite QB that he is. Because bad offensive coordinators retard the growth of good QB's, even ruin them.

You don't become the #4 ranked offense in the NFL in 2015 without your bell cow RB for most of the season without a good offensive coordinator.

Bevell's not the best, he might not even be top 10 coordinators. But the fact is he's a good fit with this group of QB's, receivers and RB's within the confines of Pete's offensive run first play action philosophy.......................WITH arguably the worst O-lines in the league year after year.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Part of the problem with the Bevel threads is that we simply disagree. On one side are people who think our Offensive ineptitude can be laid at Bevel's feet. The other thinks it's more complicated than that and that regardless of the play that's called the players have to execute. Weeding through a play and figuring out where it went wrong is not easy and there are times when the play call is bad. No OC gets it right 100% of the time. When the pro Bevel crowd points out that history and statistics show that he and the team get it right more often than they don't, the con side says no and uses anecdotal evidence of individual games where we struggled. And most of those teams cited, that we struggle against, most teams struggle against.

This is the NFL, any given Sunday that weird shaped ball can bounce the wrong way. You just try to get it right more than you get it wrong. Has this coaching staff done that?

If the Bevell haters were right then our offense would stink all the time, every year and Russell wouldn't be the Pro Bowl elite QB that he is.

That's simplistic, and I think it's what's preventing you from seeing Bevell's issues. The rabble is screaming ignorantly about him, without having any idea what they're talking about, and you guys are sick of it and allow it to push you to the other end.

Bevell is not awful, but he does have issues, and they have cost us games. His situationally poor play-calling, his narrow playbook, his spotty record at going after mismatches - a lot of our smarter posters (not me, really) have commented on this.

And when it comes to Seattle's success in spite of all this, Russell Wilson's mobility has to be a huge factor. Imagine all the 50-yard improvised bombs to Doug Baldwin over the years. Take even one out and it could be the difference in any of our records.

I'm willing to fault Pete for some of this, like the overemphasis on simplicity (it works good on defense, not so much on offense). But Bevell is a pretty mediocre play-caller, IMHO. I think the rabble is right; they just don't know WHY they're right. Like they were on Ruskell.

 

[WindCityHawk]

I'm of course happy with the apparent turnaround, but I'm not going to anoint the guy after one game, especially when all he did was display an uncommon (for him) grasp of common sense. That said, again, very pleased with the production. Let's hope it wasn't an anomoly.

Note: I will be relatively kind to him if we end up starting Boykin against the Jets front seven. That's a hell of a challenge.

 

[StoneCold]

Part of the problem with the Bevel threads is that we simply disagree. On one side are people who think our Offensive ineptitude can be laid at Bevel's feet. The other thinks it's more complicated than that and that regardless of the play that's called the players have to execute. Weeding through a play and figuring out where it went wrong is not easy and there are times when the play call is bad. No OC gets it right 100% of the time. When the pro Bevel crowd points out that history and statistics show that he and the team get it right more often than they don't, the con side says no and uses anecdotal evidence of individual games where we struggled. And most of those teams cited, that we struggle against, most teams struggle against.

This is the NFL, any given Sunday that weird shaped ball can bounce the wrong way. You just try to get it right more than you get it wrong. Has this coaching staff done that?

If the Bevell haters were right then our offense would stink all the time, every year and Russell wouldn't be the Pro Bowl elite QB that he is.

That's simplistic, and I think it's what's preventing you from seeing Bevell's issues. The rabble is screaming ignorantly about him, without having any idea what they're talking about, and you guys are sick of it and allow it to push you to the other end.

Bevell is not awful, but he does have issues, and they have cost us games. His situationally poor play-calling, his narrow playbook, his spotty record at going after mismatches - a lot of our smarter posters (not me, really) have commented on this.

And when it comes to Seattle's success in spite of all this, Russell Wilson's mobility has to be a huge factor. Imagine all the 50-yard improvised bombs to Doug Baldwin over the years. Take even one out and it could be the difference in any of our records.

I'm willing to fault Pete for some of this, like the overemphasis on simplicity (it works good on defense, not so much on offense). But Bevell is a pretty mediocre play-caller, IMHO. I think the rabble is right; they just don't know WHY they're right. Like they were on Ruskell.

It's fine to call out specifics, but no OC/HC gets it right every time. Not even Belichick. And with the critique you should acknowledge their accomplishments. It's also unfair to say his success is because he has good players. It's similar to people saying that RW was only good because of the running game or defense. No player or coach will succeed without good players around them.

I really love the posts where someone adds a gif of the play in question and we can examine what is going on. The play call might be bad, the execution might be bad and or the defense might make a play. We can quibble about the specifics, but some paint with a very broad brush that is in stark contrast to the success this team has had with these coaches and it makes me shake my head and wonder are we watching the same kick ass team?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Part of the problem with the Bevel threads is that we simply disagree. On one side are people who think our Offensive ineptitude can be laid at Bevel's feet. The other thinks it's more complicated than that and that regardless of the play that's called the players have to execute. Weeding through a play and figuring out where it went wrong is not easy and there are times when the play call is bad. No OC gets it right 100% of the time. When the pro Bevel crowd points out that history and statistics show that he and the team get it right more often than they don't, the con side says no and uses anecdotal evidence of individual games where we struggled. And most of those teams cited, that we struggle against, most teams struggle against.

This is the NFL, any given Sunday that weird shaped ball can bounce the wrong way. You just try to get it right more than you get it wrong. Has this coaching staff done that?

If the Bevell haters were right then our offense would stink all the time, every year and Russell wouldn't be the Pro Bowl elite QB that he is.

That's simplistic, and I think it's what's preventing you from seeing Bevell's issues. The rabble is screaming ignorantly about him, without having any idea what they're talking about, and you guys are sick of it and allow it to push you to the other end.
.

That's why I said;

Bevell's not the best, he might not even be top 10 coordinators

A good to great offensive coordinator is not all about playcalling, as some of you like to fixate on. It's about chemistry and "coordination" with not only the head coach, but the players, and specifically the QB.

I happen to think Bevell is a good fit for this team, with Pete and especially Russell. That's why we've been a top 10 offense the past two years.......the continuity, chemistry and talent on our offense DESPITE spending most of our cap space on defense and having the worst O-line in the league.

Anyone can look brilliant with Tom Brady and Bellicheat. That's why McDaniel's crapped his pants when he left NE, but for some reason everyone here likes to hold him up as the gold standard of coordinators.