We're Saved !!! O-Line "Nailed"

[SoulfishHawk]

I've been called worse. Meh.
The fact is that the O Line is directly related to how Russ will be able to play, and has played. Wilson was brought up, so we talked about him, as it relates to the O Line etc. So no, not lost at all

 

[Jville]

Love Russell Wilson ...... but ......you guys are so lost.

Well, now I am lost.....????

My mistake. I should not have included your post as part of my quote.

Sorry about that.

Good points in your post.

 

[Seymour]

I've been called worse. Meh.
The fact is that the O Line is directly related to how Russ will be able to play, and has played. Wilson was brought up, so we talked about him, as it relates to the O Line etc. So no, not lost at all

We are all lost. My guess is we all failed the #1 focus of "the brotherhood" question.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Good point, running for you life behind a Swiss Cheese O-Line is clearly the QB's fault.

You're confusing cause and effect. You're also being reductive instead of trying to understand the other argument.

 

[Seymour]

Good point, running for you life behind a Swiss Cheese O-Line is clearly the QB's fault.

You're confusing cause and effect. You're also being reductive instead of trying to understand the other argument.

I would buy that argument if the majority of the time Russell was running from ghosts and not pressure. Clearly it is far more from pressure or closed off throwing lanes, so the "Swiss Cheese" cause is far more accurate IMO.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

My point is that there's no way a QB can just play behind a line like that and feel completely comfortable.
Oh well, I'll gladly bow out of the conversation.

 

[toffee]

Saved could be true, but one needs to think saved from what? Our OL has been one of the worst in the league last season, so will we be saved from being the worst again? Probably, if one counts moving from among the worse to low half of the league as "saved".

No doubt some young players will enjoy some sort of improvement over last season purely based on experience gained. I am not optimistic on how much improvement.

1. Fant has gotten bigger and more experienced, but I am highly suspicious on gaining 70 lbs of muscle over 18 months. OK so assuming he gained all muscle, can he retain his quickness and form?

2. Ifedi was one of the worst at his position last year, some may say a bust. Now he may move to RT or his natural position which he sucked or didn't excel at A&M.

3. Joeckel was a certified bust at the Buc, now he is ready to be our savior at LT or LG? LG more likely would be a position that he could do well enough, so the LG position may enjoy improvement over last season.

4. Signing of JT Lang as RG with Joeckel as LG and Britt at center would have given us a good chance at being above average ... but we didn't sign Lang. As is RG position is wide open, RT too.

In the end, our potential starting OL will have one certified bust in Joeckel, a potential bust in Idefi, a LT with wow one year of experience instead of zero. Although compare to last year, it's still an improvement, no doubt about it. Just a matter how much improvement.

 

[Seymour]

Sadly it seems some have reduced their expectations to accepting "poor" as improvement over "disaster".

Here is the bar that we set to "improve upon", and there is only 1 direction to go from here.

32. Seattle Seahawks (32)

Top overall grade: C Justin Britt, 80.5 (No. 16)

Top pass-blocking grade: C Justin Britt, 79.1 (No. 21)

Top run-blocking grade: C Justin Britt, 71.9 (No. 18)

Nobody has invested less in their offensive line than the Seattle Seahawks, and it showed in their performance over the 2016 season, with the unit being directly responsible for some of the team’s losses. Even their best performer, Justin Britt, was moved to center in a last-ditch attempt to salvage his career, rather than have to invest more in the position (though he has played far better at center than any other position, surrendering no sacks or hits this season). The other four starters top out at overall grades of 52.3, and the best-ranked among them (LG Mark Glowinski) is the 63rd-ranked player at his position league-wide. The success Seattle has experienced this season is entirely in spite of its offensive line, and requires QB Russell Wilson and the running backs to play stellar football to continue to overcome the unit’s deficiencies.

 

[FidelisHawk]

I like all Seahawk fans (I assume) would love to see Russell’s sack percentage in the low 6’s or 5’s. I’m just not sure his style of play will ever achieve that in this stage of his career nor do I believe the team’s offensive focus wants him to change either.

The offensive line certainly doesn’t help, but it’s not the entire problem (even if we feel it is a major problem) either, as last year’s stats show.

There may come a time when more capital will be needed on the OL, less will be available to be used in other areas, and the offensive focus will need to change. I’m simply not convinced now is the time for that kind of change.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There may come a time when more capital will be needed on the OL, less will be available to be used in other areas, and the offensive focus will need to change. I’m simply not convinced now is the time for that kind of change.

This has been my point for the past two years.

If Pete and John's philosophy is to stack the cap on the defensive side, and go dumpster diving on the O-line to save money, then that defense has to play like it did in 2012-2013.

If the D can't sustain that kind of dominance, it's time to change this philosophy and balance out the cap between the offense and defense.

 

[jammerhawk]

My question is if we draft someone and don't know where we will play them and what they are best at what does that say for our evaluation process.

Either that or the continuing reality is the college game is not producing pro ready OLinemen. It's just not easy to find guys who can play capably in the pro game.

Which has been driven into Seattle fans by none other than Tom Cable. Funny how that works. Also funny how since we year after year, rank among the leagues worst pass blocking lines (highest ranking for Cable since here #22), that other teams are not having the same degree of problems as we are.

Here's the thing though, this year and last some just marginal OTs were getting pretty major $ as the college replacements were just not there. So just perhaps the unappreciated Coach may just be right.

Let's not forget it has been a clear FO decision not to pay big $ for OLinemen. in result Seatle has a relatively cheap and very young OLine.

 

[Seymour]

There may come a time when more capital will be needed on the OL, less will be available to be used in other areas, and the offensive focus will need to change. I’m simply not convinced now is the time for that kind of change.

This has been my point for the past two years.

If Pete and John's philosophy is to stack the cap on the defensive side, and go dumpster diving on the O-line to save money, then that defense has to play like it did in 2012-2013.

If the D can't sustain that kind of dominance, it's time to change this philosophy and balance out the cap between the offense and defense.

And to expand on that, we are setting ourselves up for failure on D (compared to then). In 2012-2013, Sherman, Wagner, Kam, Russell and others were playing for far less $$ (not paid yet). In 2013 we were also THE TOP PAID Oline in the NFL (much because of that). They were still poor at pass blocking, but good at run blocking. That matters to the D because along with better depth, they could rest more in a ball control offense.

Paying an Oline like 2013 days are over. Now we've jumped to the extreme other end of the pay and experience, yet are hoping for the same results. Good luck....

I say we need to find a better balance.

 

[Seymour]

My question is if we draft someone and don't know where we will play them and what they are best at what does that say for our evaluation process.

Either that or the continuing reality is the college game is not producing pro ready OLinemen. It's just not easy to find guys who can play capably in the pro game.

Which has been driven into Seattle fans by none other than Tom Cable. Funny how that works. Also funny how since we year after year, rank among the leagues worst pass blocking lines (highest ranking for Cable since here #22), that other teams are not having the same degree of problems as we are.

Here's the thing though, this year and last some just marginal OTs were getting pretty major $ as the college replacements were just not there. So just perhaps the unappreciated Coach may just be right.

Let's not forget it has been a clear FO decision not to pay big $ for OLinemen. in result Seatle has a relatively cheap and very young OLine.

I won't EVER forget that. Lets also not forget Schneider has openly admitted they made a mistake for relying on too much youth. I hope they learned but only time will tell. A Britt contract may tell us that.

 

[StoneCold]

Rushing stats:
Year Team Russell
2012 2579 489
2013 2188 539 SB Win
2014 2768 849 SB Loss (Hmm, maybe someone should have run that ball in :stirthepot: )
2015 2268 553
2016 1591 259

I think we all agree last year was a disaster when it comes to the Oline and our running game. The other years, despite Cable (or because of him :stirthepot: ) We were more than respectable. What caused last years decline. Inexperienced Oline, Running back by committee, injuries to Rawls and Porcise and Russell.

While no one can guarantee that wont happen again this year, the likely hood of getting bit by that many set backs is low. Seahawk's are going to kick butt next year. Unless of course, caveat, caveat, caveat emptor.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Rushing stats:
Year Team Russell
2012 2579 489
2013 2188 539 SB Win
2014 2768 849 SB Loss (Hmm, maybe someone should have run that ball in :stirthepot: )
2015 2268 553
2016 1591 259

I think we all agree last year was a disaster when it comes to the Oline and our running game. The other years, despite Cable (or because of him :stirthepot: ) We were more than respectable. What caused last years decline. Inexperienced Oline, Running back by committee, injuries to Rawls and Porcise and Russell.

While no one can guarantee that wont happen again this year, the likely hood of getting bit by that many set backs is low. Seahawk's are going to kick butt next year. Unless of course, caveat, caveat, caveat emptor.

Definitely not just the O-line last year.

I know Pete and Cable got a LOT of credit for putting the patchwork lines together before last year. But the truth is a healthy Russell and Beastmode in his prime probably had more to do with the offense's success than anything Cable, Pete and the O-line did.

Last year just reinforced this fact.

 

[StoneCold]

Rushing stats:
Year Team Russell
2012 2579 489
2013 2188 539 SB Win
2014 2768 849 SB Loss (Hmm, maybe someone should have run that ball in :stirthepot: )
2015 2268 553
2016 1591 259

I think we all agree last year was a disaster when it comes to the Oline and our running game. The other years, despite Cable (or because of him :stirthepot: ) We were more than respectable. What caused last years decline. Inexperienced Oline, Running back by committee, injuries to Rawls and Porcise and Russell.

While no one can guarantee that wont happen again this year, the likely hood of getting bit by that many set backs is low. Seahawk's are going to kick butt next year. Unless of course, caveat, caveat, caveat emptor.

Definitely not just the O-line last year.

I know Pete and Cable got a LOT of credit for putting the patchwork lines together before last year. But the truth is a healthy Russell and Beastmode in his prime probably had more to do with the offense's success than anything Cable, Pete and the O-line did.

Last year just reinforced this fact.

I think you're right in part, but in 2015 when Rawls was carrying the load he was tearing it up before the Ravens guy rolled on his ankle. What I make of that is, we don't necessarily need a hall of fame running back in his prime. We do need better than Michael, a slightly better Oline and a healthy Russell. Personally I can't wait for the season to begin.

GO HAWKS!

 

[StoneCold]

Either that or the continuing reality is the college game is not producing pro ready OLinemen. It's just not easy to find guys who can play capably in the pro game.

Which has been driven into Seattle fans by none other than Tom Cable. Funny how that works. Also funny how since we year after year, rank among the leagues worst pass blocking lines (highest ranking for Cable since here #22), that other teams are not having the same degree of problems as we are.

Here's the thing though, this year and last some just marginal OTs were getting pretty major $ as the college replacements were just not there. So just perhaps the unappreciated Coach may just be right.

Let's not forget it has been a clear FO decision not to pay big $ for OLinemen. in result Seattle has a relatively cheap and very young OLine.

I won't EVER forget that. Lets also not forget Schneider has openly admitted they made a mistake for relying on too much youth. I hope they learned but only time will tell. A Britt contract may tell us that.

Haven't they already, this off season, put more dollars and resources into the Oline?

 

[Seymour]

Haven't they already, this off season, put more dollars and resources into the Oline?

We had Webb and Sowell last year and exchanged Joeckel and Aboushi at just under $9M this year, so maybe a little. Pretty sure they are still at bottom of the league in spending (need to see who makes roster to know for sure), but this may very well take more than 1 season to fix also.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Haven't they already, this off season, put more dollars and resources into the Oline?

They TRIED, but were they successful?

IMO not really. Added some depth, but no proven front line starter. Just wish we could have signed Lang, he would have solidified the entire left side.

Could work out fine, but as of now we have four shaky spots on the line. That usually doesn't spell success when it comes to the O-line.

 

[StoneCold]

Haven't they already, this off season, put more dollars and resources into the Oline?

We had Webb and Sowell last year and exchanged Joeckel and Aboushi at just under $9M this year, so maybe a little. Pretty sure they are still at bottom of the league in spending (need to see who makes roster to know for sure), but this may very well take more than 1 season to fix also.

Hey, don't forget Robert Myers. More experience and more money, in both the free agents and current roster. It may not add up to "enough", but I don't think it's fair to say they aren't doing anything. Only next year will answer is it enough. For some here it seems that only another SB will be enough.