What if Geno is solid?

[LTH]

If he's solid, we'll win a couple of the upcoming games and we won't need to rush Russ back.

I think its going to be interesting... If Geno is solid and wins a few games how long do you think Carroll is going to be ABLE to keep Wilson down to heal? I think its going to be an issue...

They are going to have to handcuff him to the bench.. LOL


LOL

 

[chris98251]

If he's solid, we'll win a couple of the upcoming games and we won't need to rush Russ back.

I think its going to be interesting... If Geno is solid and wins a few games how long do you think Carroll is going to be ABLE to keep Wilson down to heal? I think its going to be an issue...

They are going to have to handcuff him to the bench.. LOL


LOL

Wilson knows all to well what could happen if Geno wins and looks good. He will sit until deemed 100 percent not just serviceable.

2nd talk will start to happen about needing him at his cost or extending Geno.

3rd Teams will look at Geno when he is available at the end of the year like Winston, Bridgewater, Fitz etc and give him a shot.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

 

[LTH]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

 

[keasley45]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

THIS .

And the defensive performance and offensive performance are not mutually exclusive. The defense nees to get itself off the field more consistently and the offense needs to run in such a way that any liability the defense poses is minimized (ie. They can't give up yards if they are on the bench).

As bad as they have played, if the offense does its job in OT against Tennessee, we win.

And against the Rams, if the offense could have moved the chains more and helped to level a 2 to 1 TOP advantage the Rams had, we likely aren't in need of Geno's heroics to close the game.

All three phases have to play as one. Playing quick strike, uptempo offense when you have a defense that is struggling is just dumb.

 

[LTH]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

THIS .

And the defensive performance and offensive performance are not mutually exclusive. The defense nees to get itself off the field more consistently and the offense needs to run in such a way that any liability the defense poses is minimized (ie. They can't give up yards if they are on the bench).

As bad as they have played, if the offense does its job in OT against Tennessee, we win.

And against the Rams, if the offense could have moved the chains more and helped to level a 2 to 1 TOP advantage the Rams had, we likely aren't in need of Geno's heroics to close the game.

All three phases have to play as one. Playing quick strike, uptempo offense when you have a defense that is struggling is just dumb.

Your totally right...

LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

THIS .

And the defensive performance and offensive performance are not mutually exclusive. The defense nees to get itself off the field more consistently and the offense needs to run in such a way that any liability the defense poses is minimized (ie. They can't give up yards if they are on the bench).

As bad as they have played, if the offense does its job in OT against Tennessee, we win.

And against the Rams, if the offense could have moved the chains more and helped to level a 2 to 1 TOP advantage the Rams had, we likely aren't in need of Geno's heroics to close the game.

All three phases have to play as one. Playing quick strike, uptempo offense when you have a defense that is struggling is just dumb.

That wont work though. The defense isnt good enough to keep the other team from scoring and employing long drives. When the Hawks find themselves down a score or two, that ball control offense isnt going to matter.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

I guess my statement was more of a comment on this entire thread. What if Geno is solid? Well yeah, he should be solid, he's a veteran backup that's had three years in this offense.

So we should be expecting Geno to be solid. But that's my point, that's not going to be good enough to dig this team out of a three game division deficit in only week six of the season.

Tell me the defense is going to be solid, and I'm glass half full Sarge. But no one can say that with a straight face, because I don't see the defense improving like last year.

Got a bunch of vets on the downside of their careers and younger players that save for Taylor aren't making up the difference in production.

 

[ZagHawk]

If Geno balls out especially in ways that RW generally does not (quick passes to the middle of the field and driving up the field). It'll really show where RW is a problem for this offense. If Geno is NOT solid and it's not because of him making mistakes, then it'll show more and more how RW was bailing out a garbage offensive scheme.

I'm VERY intrigued to see how these next few games will go. I personally hope Geno balls out because I think we as Seahawks fans are stuck with Pete longer than we are with RW.

 

[LTH]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

I guess my statement was more of a comment on this entire thread. What if Geno is solid? Well yeah, he should be solid, he's a veteran backup that's had three years in this offense.

So we should be expecting Geno to be solid. But that's my point, that's not going to be good enough to dig this team out of a three game division deficit in only week six of the season.

Tell me the defense is going to be solid, and I'm glass half full Sarge. But no one can say that with a straight face, because I don't see the defense improving like last year.

Got a bunch of vets on the downside of their careers and younger players that save for Taylor aren't making up the difference in production.

Like Bobby said in his PC its a game of adjustment and scheme. Guys like Taylor and Brooks are just getting there feet wet. Who is to say when their light goes on? Who is to say that the corner play will not improve.. We don't really know what's going to happen. It could be that the coaching staff coaches these young guys up and they surge to their full potential. I tend to look at history and the history says that they will get better this year, the question is will it be to late?

I guess if you believe that the coaching staff is crap then its a mute point... I don't believe that but Im not going to say that I know it all because I don't... I was pretty much the ONLY one who believed it was going to improve last year... I happened to be right but we will see... I sure hope I'm right...


LTH

 

[keasley45]

Geno's not the problem, Russell wasn't the problem. The defense is the problem, so even if Geno plays well this team isn't going anywhere unless the defense DRASTICALLY improves.

Well I think The Hawks were in position to win 2- of the 3 losses So there is a question there. On the flip side, your right the D needs to improve...


LTH

THIS .

And the defensive performance and offensive performance are not mutually exclusive. The defense nees to get itself off the field more consistently and the offense needs to run in such a way that any liability the defense poses is minimized (ie. They can't give up yards if they are on the bench).

As bad as they have played, if the offense does its job in OT against Tennessee, we win.

And against the Rams, if the offense could have moved the chains more and helped to level a 2 to 1 TOP advantage the Rams had, we likely aren't in need of Geno's heroics to close the game.

All three phases have to play as one. Playing quick strike, uptempo offense when you have a defense that is struggling is just dumb.

That wont work though. The defense isnt good enough to keep the other team from scoring and employing long drives. When the Hawks find themselves down a score or two, that ball control offense isnt going to matter.

It has worked. It worked against the Rams. They played their most consistent game since week 1 but the offense only had one long drive.

And at the end of the game, when we needed a stop, just like against the Titans in OT, we got it.

If we play complimentary ball, the D won't be as exposed. Yeah, they still might give up a 9 play 80 yard drive that takes up 6 minutes, but if our offense gets back on the field and does the same, do the math.... there's only but so much time in a game. The offense can help the D out.

The optimism around Geno is that the quick read and release game is what he's good at. So the hope is that he can help execute an offense that keeps the ball a but longer simply by play selection and execution.

It's the difference between he and Russ. Not starting a fight at all because I LOVE Russ, but apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Russ plays his game to 150% of human ability but it's not read, diagnose and quick release. It's just not.

 

[keasley45]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

 

[LTH]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field....


LTH

 

[John63]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field.


LTH

So le time understand this the rams having the ball for 10.91 minutes compared to the hawks 8.43 is why the defense then gave up an 8-minute drive.

Or on the first position in the SF game for SF they give up a 4+ minute drive

Or the first possession after halftime against Minny an 8.5 minutes drive


Let's look at the minny drives in the 2nd half

8.5 minutes
5 minutes
7 minutes

a 9-minute drive

OR the opening possession against Indy

The defense needs to get off the field. I get TOP but I also get your need to help yourself as well. I do agree the offense could help more but when you only get 1 drive in a qtr pretty tough to do.

 

[LTH]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field.


LTH

So le time understand this the rams having the ball for 10.91 minutes compared to the hawks 8.43 is why the defense then gave up an 8-minute drive.

Or on the first position in the SF game for SF they give up a 4+ minute drive

Or the first possession after halftime against Minny an 8.5 minutes drive


Let's look at the minny drives in the 2nd half

8.5 minutes
5 minutes
7 minutes

a 9-minute drive

OR the opening possession against Indy

The defense needs to get off the field. I get TOP but I also get your need to help yourself as well. I do agree the offense could help more but when you only get 1 drive in a qtr pretty tough to do.

I'm not going to get into stats.. Ill Leave that to Keasley.

I'm saying TOP being so lopsided against the Hawks because of 3 and outs and no long drives works against the Hawks D. If the Hawks have long drives that eat the clock that's less time the Hawks D is on the field more time to rest and more time to figure out adjustments... If you don't agree with that fine... that's your opinion... Does the Hawks D have to execute better yes they do... I don't think TOP is the fix all but for sure it will majorly help and it was a factor in losing games...IMO


LTH

 

[keasley45]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field.


LTH

So le time understand this the rams having the ball for 10.91 minutes compared to the hawks 8.43 is why the defense then gave up an 8-minute drive.

Or on the first position in the SF game for SF they give up a 4+ minute drive

Or the first possession after halftime against Minny an 8.5 minutes drive


Let's look at the minny drives in the 2nd half

8.5 minutes
5 minutes
7 minutes

a 9-minute drive

OR the opening possession against Indy

The defense needs to get off the field. I get TOP but I also get your need to help yourself as well. I do agree the offense could help more but when you only get 1 drive in a qtr pretty tough to do.

Bit isn't the point of collectively allowing them to help themselves, putting them in position to do that. A defense that is out of sync in-game, will need more time on the sidelines, not less between possessions. If they just got whipped down the field, they'll need more time to rest on the sidelines, not less. And if you guve them both of those things, they will get better, not worse.

I dont think anyone disagrees the defense needs to improve. The point is, it's made worse by an offense that's primarily focused on the big play.

And it would be just as easy for me to cherry pick the number of three and out drives or sub 3 minute drives that followed any of the long drives you quote above. But again, that's not productive.

The Pete vs Russ polarization has boiled over in this forum and become offense vs defense. When in reality, it's offense and defense. And to tout the points you put up on one side of the ball as evidence that the O is doing its job is just completely backwards when it comes to trying to win a team game like football.

If we were talking hypothetically about this scenario and people could divorce PC and RW from the convo, i think the exchanges would be much more productuve.

 

[John63]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field.


LTH

So le time understand this the rams having the ball for 10.91 minutes compared to the hawks 8.43 is why the defense then gave up an 8-minute drive.

Or on the first position in the SF game for SF they give up a 4+ minute drive

Or the first possession after halftime against Minny an 8.5 minutes drive


Let's look at the minny drives in the 2nd half

8.5 minutes
5 minutes
7 minutes

a 9-minute drive

OR the opening possession against Indy

The defense needs to get off the field. I get TOP but I also get your need to help yourself as well. I do agree the offense could help more but when you only get 1 drive in a qtr pretty tough to do.

I'm not going to get into stats.. Ill Leave that to Keasley.

I'm saying TOP being so lopsided against the Hawks because of 3 and outs and no long drives works against the Hawks D. If the Hawks have long drives that eat the clock that's less time the Hawks D is on the field more time to rest and more time to figure out adjustments... If you don't agree with that fine... that's your opinion... Does the Hawks D have to execute better yes they do... I don't think TOP is the fix all but for sure it will majorly help and it was a factor in losing games...IMO


LTH

and I am saying TOP being out of wack when you have a defense that can't get off the field is a problem. The Defense is ranked last before I go blaming the offense or ST even that defense needs to help its self. That is like asking the guy hitting 100 hrs and over 300 to do more rather than asking the other 8 hitters who are batting 200 to do their jobs.

I get they are connected and can help each other but right now the defense is not pulling their weight, so let's get them to. Then if TOP is out of wack then we can blame the offense.

 

[John63]

For anyone who hasn't played the game, its hard to underscore how important TOP is and not letting physical exhaustion begin to undermine your mental awareness and effort. A great defense can be beaten if it's left on the field to long an average defense can be made to look like a practice squad team. And when you have self doubt and frustration layered on topof that...

I've said it a few times on this board - limit the amount of time the D is on the field, hold the ball on offense with sustaining drives, and the D will perform better because they won't be as drained, confidence will be up, and they won't be in a position to have to hold opposing teams at bay for nearly 40 minutes a game.

Not saying they'll be the legion of boom, but they also won't be the lesion of doo.

Geno just has to be as good as Goff was for the Rams in 2018-19.

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field.


LTH

So le time understand this the rams having the ball for 10.91 minutes compared to the hawks 8.43 is why the defense then gave up an 8-minute drive.

Or on the first position in the SF game for SF they give up a 4+ minute drive

Or the first possession after halftime against Minny an 8.5 minutes drive


Let's look at the minny drives in the 2nd half

8.5 minutes
5 minutes
7 minutes

a 9-minute drive

OR the opening possession against Indy

The defense needs to get off the field. I get TOP but I also get your need to help yourself as well. I do agree the offense could help more but when you only get 1 drive in a qtr pretty tough to do.

Bit isn't the point of collectively allowing them to help themselves, putting them in position to do that. A defense that is out of sync in-game, will need more time on the sidelines, not less between possessions. If they just got whipped down the field, they'll need more time to rest on the sidelines, not less. And if you guve them both of those things, they will get better, not worse.

I dont think anyone disagrees the defense needs to improve. The point is, it's made worse by an offense that's primarily focused on the big play.

And it would be just as easy for me to cherry pick the number of three and out drives or sub 3 minute drives that followed any of the long drives you quote above. But again, that's not productive.

The Pete vs Russ polarization has boiled over in this forum and become offense vs defense. When in reality, it's offense and defense. And to tout the points you put up on one side of the ball as evidence that the O is doing its job is just completely backwards when it comes to trying to win a team game like football.

If we were talking hypothetically about this scenario and people could divorce PC and RW from the convo, i think the exchanges would be much more productuve.

I agree with this "If we were talking hypothetically about this scenario and people could divorce PC and RW from the convo, i think the exchanges would be much more productive"


It would not change my opinion though. When I look at this team I see

Great ST
Good Offense
Crap defense

Logic dictates you fix or try to fix what's worse, first. IT would be one thing if the defense was giving up 3 minutes drives all the time but they are not. They are giving up long drives. This keeps the offense off the field and whatever rhythm they have gone.

I agree they help each other, all 3 that is. But when you look at the 3 parts

ST 100% good
Offense 50% AVG
Defense 0% Worst in NFL

I think I would fix 0 or the worst.

 

[hawks85]

I am not a fan of Wilson, I don't like his QB style of play and he doesn't fit this offense. This offense was built for someone like Geno and he is gonna thrive and shock a lot of people. The way he played against the Rams was superior to anything Wilson has done all year. Geno moved that ball up and down the field with ease. Wilson...I'll leave it at that. Wilson's problem is he tries to hard and I don't understand why this guy wanted a west coast offense style of offense. I don't care what anybody says or says about Wilson, he's overrated.

 

[keasley45]

The other part to it is , it gives the D a chance to figure out adjustments rather than being on the side lines for 1 minute , a 3 and out by the O, and having to go back out on the field.


LTH

So le time understand this the rams having the ball for 10.91 minutes compared to the hawks 8.43 is why the defense then gave up an 8-minute drive.

Or on the first position in the SF game for SF they give up a 4+ minute drive

Or the first possession after halftime against Minny an 8.5 minutes drive


Let's look at the minny drives in the 2nd half

8.5 minutes
5 minutes
7 minutes

a 9-minute drive

OR the opening possession against Indy

The defense needs to get off the field. I get TOP but I also get your need to help yourself as well. I do agree the offense could help more but when you only get 1 drive in a qtr pretty tough to do.

Bit isn't the point of collectively allowing them to help themselves, putting them in position to do that. A defense that is out of sync in-game, will need more time on the sidelines, not less between possessions. If they just got whipped down the field, they'll need more time to rest on the sidelines, not less. And if you guve them both of those things, they will get better, not worse.

I dont think anyone disagrees the defense needs to improve. The point is, it's made worse by an offense that's primarily focused on the big play.

And it would be just as easy for me to cherry pick the number of three and out drives or sub 3 minute drives that followed any of the long drives you quote above. But again, that's not productive.

The Pete vs Russ polarization has boiled over in this forum and become offense vs defense. When in reality, it's offense and defense. And to tout the points you put up on one side of the ball as evidence that the O is doing its job is just completely backwards when it comes to trying to win a team game like football.

If we were talking hypothetically about this scenario and people could divorce PC and RW from the convo, i think the exchanges would be much more productuve.

I agree with this "If we were talking hypothetically about this scenario and people could divorce PC and RW from the convo, i think the exchanges would be much more productive"


It would not change my opinion though. When I look at this team I see

Great ST
Good Offense
Crap defense

Logic dictates you fix or try to fix what's worse, first. IT would be one thing if the defense was giving up 3 minutes drives all the time but they are not. They are giving up long drives. This keeps the offense off the field and whatever rhythm they have gone.

I agree they help each other, all 3 that is. But when you look at the 3 parts

ST 100% good
Offense 50% AVG
Defense 0% Worst in NFL

I think I would fix 0 or the worst.

Again, nobody is arguing that they need to be fixed. Just that the style of offense can help the 'fixing'. And when the offense can hold the ball, they show much better .

5 plays 25 yards
5 plays 20 yards
8 plays 62 yards int
3 plays 2 yards
14 plays 64 yards
1 play -1 yards

That's our defense last Thursday against the Rams in the first half. They gave up the 62 yard drive but took the ball away. Then in 2 drives by our offense we pick up 7 points but took only 3+ minutes off the clock and gave the Rams the ball back on an int. Then the Rams get the ball back and go on a 14 play drive that only gets them a fg. Definition of bending but not breaking

If that isn't showing improvement in terms of getting off the field, I don't know what is. From there forward, we have 3 drives that net 16 yards and little clock until Geno comes in, while the Rams have multiple 80 plus yard drives. It's not causation but there's certainly correlation between when our D falls apart and when our O stalls.especiallybas the game wears on.

The week prior, our offense had -5 yards of offense outside of the 80 yard drive in the 2nd quarter. You know what our maligned defense was doing that whole time? Staying on the field and getting worn down.

Something an already questionable unit cannot afford to do.

The defense has improved if you look at the game wholistically and understand everything that's contributing to the failure.

The offense not holding the ball is not the reason they're bad, but it's making it worse than it needs to be.

And btw, the special teams have NOT been good the last few weeks. Dickson is all world but had a punt blocked, and what used to be easy field goals have been all but.