When will we move on from John Schneider?

[TypeSly]

I think Schneider is the LAST concern for the Seahawks. I hope they keep him even after Pete's gone.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'd be interested to see what JS could do without Carroll. For example all of the QB's that he's looked at in the first round have been really good starters. Seattle showed some interest in Josh Allen, and we also showed some interest in Tannehill in 2011, and of course we drafted Russell Wilson. All of those QB's ended up being above average in the NFL, we know that at least Russell Wilson was John Schneider's call. I would be curious to see what a Seahawk's FO led by Schneider, free of Carroll would look like. If he had the power to higher is own coach, bring in his own scouts, free from Carroll's system.

 

[jammerhawk]

Total different philosophy. Probably why we didn't get Baker or Rapp. We don't draft the best player for need.

Carroll (and likely JS) believe that teams with the best advantage are the teams with 'field tilters'. The trade for Adams is another example of that.

That field tilting player only comes along (outside of top 10 picks). Once every other year. Outside of 1st round picks even less.

So you start with the realization that it is probably easier to find a great player than a great player at a certain position. You also likely realize that players that fit the physical mold you set, won't always pan out. You likely spend 3-4 picks for every hit. This means you need a greater # of picks.

If you look, you notice we tend to trade back to get more picks that allow us to spin the wheel more.

You are drafting for upside, instead of the ability to immediately contribute (which is the usual measuring stick).

But you are trading uncertainty (the % chance the player can immediately come in and contribute) for the upside. And since your scouting and evaluation processes all center on this, you likely are better at it than evaluating talent to fill immediate holes.

Great for building a program. But terrible for filling holes due to losses to FA or injury. Additionally terrible for shoring up depth in areas of projected need. We seem to try to address that after the fact with UDFA (where we are very good) and trades (where we have a mixed bag of effectiveness).

But this strategy gets you the Frank Clarks and DK Metcalfs that you never would have gotten. It gets the Chris Carsons. Those kinds of stellar finds are not accidents, they are planned.

This is an excellent post which rather clearly sets out JS’ draft philosophy. JS has really not screwed up many picks and frankly is better at it than many here acknowledge. Constantly picking late in each round requires agility to move around to acquire the talent you have identified. The draft after all is a best guess type situation where many of the key variables are not certain.

I agree with Jerhawk for his reasons as well but think Mike Williams was a Pete acquisition yet the talent on the team was so depleted they were at a start over state beginning 2010. JS.haschurned the roster to try to improve weak areas better than many FOs in the NFL.

JS has made this team constantly competitive. Getting rid of him would be a huge mistake.

 

[Appyhawk]

What GM/HC/Ownership tandem in the league is better than John and Pete and our ownership (ownership beginning with Allen)?
IMO we have the best there is. If I were a player in the market there is nowhere and no organization I'd rather play for/with than in Seattle for Seahawks.

 

[hoxrox]

The other issue is that we only have like what - 4 picks in the upcoming draft?? So these MUST hit. We have too many holes to fill, and very little draft capital to do it.

 

[jammerhawk]

Trader John has a way of manipulating draft picks to make more from less.

 

[jammerhawk]

Trader John has a way of manipulating draft picks to make more from less.

 

[hoxrox]

Trader John has a way of manipulating draft picks to make more from less.

Hmm this wheeling and dealing is kind of what I'm afraid of. We have no 1st round picks in 2021 or 2022, so he will probably trade away the second round pick for a couple of late round picks, hoping we'll get a Sherman or Chancellor.. That's like gambling. The odds aren't good.

The other thing I did not understand was why he gave way draft capital for one-year rental players. For example,

Clowney for a third-round pick, and LB Jacob Martin - unless it is an "all-in" year, why didn't we just keep and develop Martin and the draft pick?

Sheldon Richardson in exchange for Jermaine Kearse and a second-round pick. Would rather just have the second round pick that could have been an impact player today.

And the ultra high-priced Adams trade - is he going to be a long-term impact player, or is this just another bad trade deal?

 

[94Smith]

What GM/HC/Ownership tandem in the league is better than John and Pete and our ownership (ownership beginning with Allen)?

Kansas City, Baltimore, and New Orleans.

 

[niveky]

If we dont make the playoffs 3 straight years in a row.

Right now we are tied for 1st in the toughest division in the NFL. We have the #1 offense and on paper our defense should be decent.

We have the best qb in football and most hype/exciting WR. You got a superstar in Jamal Adams.

Since John/Pete been here they been winning games....So yeah unless we dont make the playoffs 3 years in row, we keep him.

So many key pieces went down early and kept going down throughout the year. That is not a Schneider issue. Irvin/Blair going out early and shaq being hurt like he has been, adams being hurt for like 3-4 weeks. That doesn't even look at the Carson and Hyde being out like they have been, Pocioc being out last week and having a 2nd year practice squad player in and unable to keep other teams honest on defense with a decent running threat and keep the defense off the field longer with more extended drives...none of that is on Schneider.

 

[Nunya]

Some of you are a bunch of Karens. If things don't go your way, you're looking for the head of the manager.

I'll just put this here:

https://www.nfl.com/news/why-george-kit ... coach-duos

Rank
3
Seattle Seahawks
GM: John Schneider · Coach: Pete Carroll
The 'Hawks operate under a high-risk, high-reward premise when it comes to team building. Schneider isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a blockbuster deal to acquire a five-star talent to boost the roster (see: trades for Jamal Adams, Jadeveon Clowney and Sheldon Richardson). Although some of their bold moves haven't moved the needle on the field, the aggressive acquisition tactics are part of a go for broke strategy that fits Carroll's upbeat and energetic personality. The ultra-positive head coach blends newbies into the fabric of the team while nurturing young players along the way. With Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf and Chris Carson flourishing as homegrown stars for the Russell Wilson-led offense, Seattle's exceptional developmental model and bold acquisitions yield big results (one Super Bowl title, two NFC championships, playoff berths in seven of the past eight seasons) in the Pacific Northwest.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

What GM/HC/Ownership tandem in the league is better than John and Pete and our ownership (ownership beginning with Allen)?

Kansas City, Baltimore, and New Orleans.

Care to provide some or any context or metric to this statement. Or you just like their uniforms look

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What GM/HC/Ownership tandem in the league is better than John and Pete and our ownership (ownership beginning with Allen)?

Kansas City, Baltimore, and New Orleans.

Care to provide some or any context or metric to this statement. Or you just like their uniforms look

Before last year, Andy Reid was the sad sack of the HC world every year fighting for his job because he could "never win the big one."

He get's arguably the most talented young QB in 25 years, and all of a sudden he's a genius. Amazing how good players make owners, GM's and coaches geniuses.

 

[RCATES]

Some of you are a bunch of Karens. If things don't go your way, you're looking for the head of the manager.

I'll just put this here:

https://www.nfl.com/news/why-george-kit ... coach-duos

Rank
3
Seattle Seahawks
GM: John Schneider · Coach: Pete Carroll
The 'Hawks operate under a high-risk, high-reward premise when it comes to team building. Schneider isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a blockbuster deal to acquire a five-star talent to boost the roster (see: trades for Jamal Adams, Jadeveon Clowney and Sheldon Richardson). Although some of their bold moves haven't moved the needle on the field, the aggressive acquisition tactics are part of a go for broke strategy that fits Carroll's upbeat and energetic personality. The ultra-positive head coach blends newbies into the fabric of the team while nurturing young players along the way. With Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf and Chris Carson flourishing as homegrown stars for the Russell Wilson-led offense, Seattle's exceptional developmental model and bold acquisitions yield big results (one Super Bowl title, two NFC championships, playoff berths in seven of the past eight seasons) in the Pacific Northwest.

This team has gotten worse year after year since 2013. If you want to continue to praise him for 2 good drafts more power to you. His trades have been disasters to say the least.

 

[iigakusei]

Although I think it was mostly Pete, the Jamal Adams trade will go down as one of the worst in franchise history, especially after we give him $16 million per year (minimum).

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Although I think it was mostly Pete, the Jamal Adams trade will go down as one of the worst in franchise history, especially after we give him $16 million per year (minimum).

That's going to take some doing, because we've had some doozies.

Deion Branch
Tony Dorsett for the #14 pick
Multiple picks, including first rounder for Kelly Stouffer
Jimmy Graham
two high picks for Charlie Whitehurst
three high picks for Percy Harvin


I mean, Adams already leads the team in sacks with missing four games, that's already better than most of these trades.

 

[iigakusei]

Although I think it was mostly Pete, the Jamal Adams trade will go down as one of the worst in franchise history, especially after we give him $16 million per year (minimum).

That's going to take some doing, because we've had some doozies.

Deion Branch
Tony Dorsett for the #14 pick
Multiple picks, including first rounder for Kelly Stouffer
Jimmy Graham
two high picks for Charlie Whitehurst
three high picks for Percy Harvin


I mean, Adams already leads the team in sacks with missing four games, that's already better than most of these trades.

Yikes valid point - I forgot about some of those.
It pains me to think we could have traded 1st round picks for a couple of really good pass rushers (or even corners) who actually positively affect this defense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Although I think it was mostly Pete, the Jamal Adams trade will go down as one of the worst in franchise history, especially after we give him $16 million per year (minimum).

That's going to take some doing, because we've had some doozies.

Deion Branch
Tony Dorsett for the #14 pick
Multiple picks, including first rounder for Kelly Stouffer
Jimmy Graham
two high picks for Charlie Whitehurst
three high picks for Percy Harvin


I mean, Adams already leads the team in sacks with missing four games, that's already better than most of these trades.

Yikes valid point - I forgot about some of those.
It pains me to think we could have traded 1st round picks for a couple of really good pass rushers (or even corners) who actually positively affect this defense.

When's the last time we had a great 1st round pick? Bruce Irvin? Earl Thomas? Okung?

Sorry, I'll take one of the top 10 defenders in the league for the next 5-6 years over more 1st round duds.

 

[iigakusei]

Although I think it was mostly Pete, the Jamal Adams trade will go down as one of the worst in franchise history, especially after we give him $16 million per year (minimum).

That's going to take some doing, because we've had some doozies.

Deion Branch
Tony Dorsett for the #14 pick
Multiple picks, including first rounder for Kelly Stouffer
Jimmy Graham
two high picks for Charlie Whitehurst
three high picks for Percy Harvin


I mean, Adams already leads the team in sacks with missing four games, that's already better than most of these trades.

Yikes valid point - I forgot about some of those.
It pains me to think we could have traded 1st round picks for a couple of really good pass rushers (or even corners) who actually positively affect this defense.

When's the last time we had a great 1st round pick? Bruce Irvin? Earl Thomas? Okung?

Sorry, I'll take one of the top 10 defenders in the league for the next 5-6 years over more 1st round duds.

Absolutely true - although I think that is a bad reason to justify the trade. We suck at drafting in the 1st round is a bigger issue. And so far I just don't see how Adams makes this defense any better. I actually think he makes them worse than with McDougald because they are so infatuated with blitzing him too much. Lets see how he does tonight because he should be spying Murray a lot. Anyway more of an off-season discussion about the overall roster construction and coaching on the defense both being terrible.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Absolutely true - although I think that is a bad reason to justify the trade. We suck at drafting in the 1st round is a bigger issue. And so far I just don't see how Adams makes this defense any better. I actually think he makes them worse than with McDougald because they are so infatuated with blitzing him too much. Lets see how he does tonight because he should be spying Murray a lot. Anyway more of an off-season discussion about the overall roster construction and coaching on the defense both being terrible.

Hard to evaluate Adams, considering he's been gone for four weeks, and the weeks he has been in he's been disruptive but inconsistent, especially in pass coverage.

It'll take time to see how best to use him, so I'm certainly nowhere near ready to call the trade a bust. He's a beast, we saw that against Atlanta, he singlehandedly destroyed their offense.

My hope is we'll get Quinn back next off season, or another more creative D-Coordinator that can maximize Adam's effectiveness...........and not just blitz him off the edge 20 times a game like Norton's doing.