where is the thread about the agents stupid 16 pager

[ctrcat]

^ JMHO but it makes making future plans for the rest of your roster much more difficult without definites. Also, JMHO, but there's a value in having that security, but that value is subjective and means more to some than it does to others.

 

[Redsand187]

I would much rather us get him under contract for slightly higher than we may want now, then wait a year and have that number continue to increase. The sooner we get him signed, the sooner that contract will seem like a steal for a franchise quarterback.

this is really the crux of the biscuit here. I say we pony up the dough now, because when we win another Lombardi this season, we may not be able to afford him.

Depends on what the ponying up of dough means.

If Rodgers and Russell are asking for 80-100% of the contract to be guaranteed money, then that might be the sticking point.

Rodgers is all about the baseball mentality of maximizing leverage by taking his clients to free agency. So at this point in the negotiations it wouldn't surprise me if they are asking for 22-25M a year fully guaranteed, or 80-90% guaranteed in order to apply pressure.

If that's the case, then it'd make sense that Schneider is balking and willing to wait for another year, even two and just franchise Russell at a lower amount. Other than the security of knowing Russell's locked up for a long time, what do we gain by giving him 22-25M guaranteed vs. 1.5M this year and 1-2 years of the franchise tag?

I wonder if that strategy is smart for Wilson, though. He's a good player, but I think a lot of it is the combination of the team and the environment. I don't think just any team in the NFL could put him on the roster and be successful. I won't say it's all Pete, but I think the team and environment he's created is a perfect fit for Russell he might not find that again with a random team in the NFL.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I wonder if that strategy is smart for Wilson, though. He's a good player, but I think a lot of it is the combination of the team and the environment. I don't think just any team in the NFL could put him on the roster and be successful. I won't say it's all Pete, but I think the team and environment he's created is a perfect fit for Russell he might not find that again with a random team in the NFL.

The gamble for me is not Russell's talent, he's a top 5-7 QB in this league, and that means he can pretty much write his own checks if he gets to free agency. Because some desperate team with a ton of cap space WILL give him what he wants just to get a franchise QB in his prime.

The gamble is health. If Russell and Rodgers decide to play hardball and let us franchise him for 2-3 years, then a major injury cuts his contract in half if he gets to free agency.

Russell's been great at not only avoiding the big hit, but being an insane person when it comes to training and recovery. But this is the NFL, and it's hard to name too many players that didn't go through injury years, especially at the QB position.

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't know why people get so hung up on the fact that he was Wilson's baseball agent. He said in his interview with KIRO that he'd done NFL contracts before. Wilson isn't his only client out there.

This is how contract talks go when you have a player at such a pivotal position who's market value will almost assuredly increase each year. The deck is stacked in Wilson's favor.

I would much rather us get him under contract for slightly higher than we may want now, then wait a year and have that number continue to increase. The sooner we get him signed, the sooner that contract will seem like a steal for a franchise quarterback.

And to add, if Andy Luck gets a Mega Contract, and Russell Wilson helps to keep the Seahawks at or near the top of the heap, Wilson could very well benefit from the negotiation$ of what Andrew Luck's Agent and the Colts have worked out.
RW not having any true # 1 Receivers to throw to (not his fault), and now having a player of Graham's ability to catch almost everything thrown his way, should also bolster Wilsons numbers.
Pay me now, or pay me a lot more later.

 

[aawolf]

Wait to get paid, it seems to be Mark Rodgers' MO. From Peter King:

At one point last year, the Red Sox were offering a client, lefty reliever Andrew Miller, what seemed to be a mint (three years, $19 million), but Rodgers was convinced he could get more on the market. Sure enough, the Yankees signed Miller for four years and $36 million—and that wasn’t even the highest offer out there for Miller. Ditto, with different numbers, for client Jeff Samardzija, who waited and didn’t get the multiyear offer Rodgers thought was right; Samardzija signed for a year and $9.8 million, and he will play this deal out and hit the market again if the Chicago White Sox don’t pay something very close to what Rodgers thinks he can get for his player on the market.

Wilson and Rodgers playing hardball makes sense. They really like what they see in 2016. When you know that you could get $25 million very easily next year, how much would it take to sign Wilson a year ahead of that? Probably a number very close to $25 million.

I thought this was the most compelling part of the King article:

Re: NC State:
I threw 76 touchdown passes for him in three years, but O’Brien thinks Mike Glennon’s better than I am? I’ll show Tom O’Brien.

Re: the rest of the NFL:
I walk into Wisconsin in July, learn the offense in about 10 minutes, set the NCAA passing-efficiency record for a season, get the Badgers to the Rose Bowl, and five quarterbacks get picked before me? Brandon Weeden goes 53 picks before me? I’ll show the NFL.

Re: the Seahawks:
My franchise had finished below .500 four straight years before I got here, and we’re 42-14 with two trips to the Super Bowl in my time, and we can’t get a deal done? I’ll show management.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I thought this was the most compelling part of the King article:

Re: NC State:
I threw 76 touchdown passes for him in three years, but O’Brien thinks Mike Glennon’s better than I am? I’ll show Tom O’Brien.

Re: the rest of the NFL:
I walk into Wisconsin in July, learn the offense in about 10 minutes, set the NCAA passing-efficiency record for a season, get the Badgers to the Rose Bowl, and five quarterbacks get picked before me? Brandon Weeden goes 53 picks before me? I’ll show the NFL.

Re: the Seahawks:
My franchise had finished below .500 four straight years before I got here, and we’re 42-14 with two trips to the Super Bowl in my time, and we can’t get a deal done? I’ll show management.

IMO compelling evidence don't you think?

I know we're all kinda vilifying Rodgers, and there's some credence to it. But in the end he's trying to get Russell the most money he can, so hard to blame the guy for playing hardball at this point in the negotiation process.

Hopefully both sides will soften a little as the year goes on and something can get done.

 

[jlwaters1]

Wait to get paid, it seems to be Mark Rodgers' MO. From Peter King:

At one point last year, the Red Sox were offering a client, lefty reliever Andrew Miller, what seemed to be a mint (three years, $19 million), but Rodgers was convinced he could get more on the market. Sure enough, the Yankees signed Miller for four years and $36 million—and that wasn’t even the highest offer out there for Miller. Ditto, with different numbers, for client Jeff Samardzija, who waited and didn’t get the multiyear offer Rodgers thought was right; Samardzija signed for a year and $9.8 million, and he will play this deal out and hit the market again if the Chicago White Sox don’t pay something very close to what Rodgers thinks he can get for his player on the market.

Wilson and Rodgers playing hardball makes sense. They really like what they see in 2016. When you know that you could get $25 million very easily next year, how much would it take to sign Wilson a year ahead of that? Probably a number very close to $25 million.

The problem with that is that Wilson will miss out on whatever signing bonus he'd get this year. IMO, it would be stupid for Wilson to not sign this year. Simply because he'll never get this money back.

What would you rather have :
Choice A) 2015 @ 1.5M and 2016 @ 25M = 26.5M over two years.
Choice B) 2015 @ 18-20 M (16+M signing Bonus) and 2015 @ 20.5M = 38.5M-40.5M over 2 years.

I see the Seahawks with the leverage, hopefully something will be worked out late JUN or JULY.

 

[StoneCold]

Wait to get paid, it seems to be Mark Rodgers' MO. From Peter King:

At one point last year, the Red Sox were offering a client, lefty reliever Andrew Miller, what seemed to be a mint (three years, $19 million), but Rodgers was convinced he could get more on the market. Sure enough, the Yankees signed Miller for four years and $36 million—and that wasn’t even the highest offer out there for Miller. Ditto, with different numbers, for client Jeff Samardzija, who waited and didn’t get the multiyear offer Rodgers thought was right; Samardzija signed for a year and $9.8 million, and he will play this deal out and hit the market again if the Chicago White Sox don’t pay something very close to what Rodgers thinks he can get for his player on the market.

Wilson and Rodgers playing hardball makes sense. They really like what they see in 2016. When you know that you could get $25 million very easily next year, how much would it take to sign Wilson a year ahead of that? Probably a number very close to $25 million.

The problem with that is that Wilson will miss out on whatever signing bonus he'd get this year. IMO, it would be stupid for Wilson to not sign this year. Simply because he'll never get this money back.

What would you rather have :
Choice A) 2015 @ 1.5M and 2016 @ 25M = 26.5M over two years.
Choice B) 2015 @ 18-20 M (16+M signing Bonus) and 2015 @ 20.5M = 38.5M-40.5M over 2 years.

I see the Seahawks with the leverage, hopefully something will be worked out late JUN or JULY.

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Wait to get paid, it seems to be Mark Rodgers' MO. From Peter King:

At one point last year, the Red Sox were offering a client, lefty reliever Andrew Miller, what seemed to be a mint (three years, $19 million), but Rodgers was convinced he could get more on the market. Sure enough, the Yankees signed Miller for four years and $36 million—and that wasn’t even the highest offer out there for Miller. Ditto, with different numbers, for client Jeff Samardzija, who waited and didn’t get the multiyear offer Rodgers thought was right; Samardzija signed for a year and $9.8 million, and he will play this deal out and hit the market again if the Chicago White Sox don’t pay something very close to what Rodgers thinks he can get for his player on the market.

Wilson and Rodgers playing hardball makes sense. They really like what they see in 2016. When you know that you could get $25 million very easily next year, how much would it take to sign Wilson a year ahead of that? Probably a number very close to $25 million.

The problem with that is that Wilson will miss out on whatever signing bonus he'd get this year. IMO, it would be stupid for Wilson to not sign this year. Simply because he'll never get this money back.

What would you rather have :
Choice A) 2015 @ 1.5M and 2016 @ 25M = 26.5M over two years.
Choice B) 2015 @ 18-20 M (16+M signing Bonus) and 2015 @ 20.5M = 38.5M-40.5M over 2 years.

I see the Seahawks with the leverage, hopefully something will be worked out late JUN or JULY.

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

I actually like that idea SC. It would be beneficial to both parties and may smooth relations if that is what the problem is. The big risk is if Lord help us, he gets injured and can not play for a few games. Then the automatic he is not worth it goes into effect. I know that is part of the deal, but So Be It. Go Hawks.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

Russell might like that, but why would the Hawks do that? If a new deal is done with an elite QB, teams like to sign them to a minimum of 5 years, if not longer in order to spread out the guaranteed money and bonus.

In your example the cap hit would be an average of 21M over the next three years. Right now the Hawks have control over Russell for four years (2015 + 3 years of franchise) with an approximate average salary of 16M over the next four years.

1.5M
18M (current QB franchise)
20M (+20%)
24M (+20%)

That's 5M a year savings to spend elsewhere.

So if anything's going to be done, it has to benefit both sides..........and like I said the only way the Hawks do an extension is if it's for a long period to take advantage of spreading out the contract AND the incremental increase each year of cap space.

 

[StoneCold]

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

Russell might like that, but why would the Hawks do that? If a new deal is done with an elite QB, teams like to sign them to a minimum of 5 years, if not longer in order to spread out the guaranteed money and bonus.

In your example the cap hit would be an average of 21M over the next three years. Right now the Hawks have control over Russell for four years (2015 + 3 years of franchise) with an approximate average salary of 16M over the next four years.

1.5M
18M (current QB franchise)
20M (+20%)
24M (+20%)

That's 5M a year savings to spend elsewhere.

So if anything's going to be done, it has to benefit both sides..........and like I said the only way the Hawks do an extension is if it's for a long period to take advantage of spreading out the contract AND the incremental increase each year of cap space.

Up thread jlwalters stated Russell would get paid 25M in 2106 if franchised. I've seen and heard a few different numbers starting in Kearly's thread about the 3 year min of 45M deal. Does anyone know exactly what it would cost the Hawks to franchise Russell for 2016 and 2017?

 

[Tical21]

I'm really not trying to start a pissing match about this, but I have to think at some point, Schneider is like "really? You think you're worth that kind of money? Really? We see you every single day. We've seen every throw and decision you've made. Really? No, c'mon. Really?"

Then I think you get a 16 page retort from an agent trying to convince a front office of all the reasons that he really should get the money. Sounds a little like desperation to me.

 

[Tical21]

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

Russell might like that, but why would the Hawks do that? If a new deal is done with an elite QB, teams like to sign them to a minimum of 5 years, if not longer in order to spread out the guaranteed money and bonus.

In your example the cap hit would be an average of 21M over the next three years. Right now the Hawks have control over Russell for four years (2015 + 3 years of franchise) with an approximate average salary of 16M over the next four years.

1.5M
18M (current QB franchise)
20M (+20%)
24M (+20%)

That's 5M a year savings to spend elsewhere.

So if anything's going to be done, it has to benefit both sides..........and like I said the only way the Hawks do an extension is if it's for a long period to take advantage of spreading out the contract AND the incremental increase each year of cap space.

Up thread jlwalters stated Russell would get paid 25M in 2106 if franchised. I've seen and heard a few different numbers starting in Kearly's thread about the 3 year min of 45M deal. Does anyone know exactly what it would cost the Hawks to franchise Russell for 2016 and 2017?

No, you can't know, because it all depends on the 5 highest paid players at the position for that year. It is all speculation.

 

[Scottemojo]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

 

[grizbob]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

Well now you've done it, we'll get 16 pages of why from tony! :roll:

 

[Sports Hernia]

Sounds like the agent is trying to bring elements of baseball negotiations into football.

Not going to work.

This, a baseball agent out of his element.

Lol, cause some random ass on the internet knows the inner workings better?

Apparently so? :stirthepot:

 

[LymonHawk]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

Double spaced?

 

[kearly]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

I'll be honest. I could probably do it.

 

[Tical21]

Do you think Schneider actually got through the 16 pages? I can't imagine there was anything said that he didn't know already. Does he read the first few paragraphs, find out where it is going, and round file it?

I just don't get it. What is the agent thinking? Don't they have conversations about this stuff? "Oh, I'm gonna get 'em now! After they read this, they're going to come begging to our door Russ! I know I've already argued all of this stuff with them, but now, check this out, I'm going to write it all down!"

 

[Scottemojo]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

Double spaced?

Perhaps even just one really big number on each page. Hope he didn't forget the decimal page.