where is the thread about the agents stupid 16 pager

[BadgerVid]

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

Russell might like that, but why would the Hawks do that? If a new deal is done with an elite QB, teams like to sign them to a minimum of 5 years, if not longer in order to spread out the guaranteed money and bonus.

In your example the cap hit would be an average of 21M over the next three years. Right now the Hawks have control over Russell for four years (2015 + 3 years of franchise) with an approximate average salary of 16M over the next four years.

1.5M
18M (current QB franchise)
20M (+20%)
24M (+20%)

That's 5M a year savings to spend elsewhere.

So if anything's going to be done, it has to benefit both sides..........and like I said the only way the Hawks do an extension is if it's for a long period to take advantage of spreading out the contract AND the incremental increase each year of cap space.

Up thread jlwalters stated Russell would get paid 25M in 2106 if franchised. I've seen and heard a few different numbers starting in Kearly's thread about the 3 year min of 45M deal. Does anyone know exactly what it would cost the Hawks to franchise Russell for 2016 and 2017?

Various "cap experts" (except on this board) estimate next year's cap to be anywhere from $18.5 to $26M. Apparently, if no current deals are renegotiated for cap relief, and based on projected salaries of QBs as they are currently scheduled, the number would be that $26M. However, some of the deals are final years that are cap hits outrageous enough that it is pretty much guaranteed they will be redone for cap relief. The most reasonable (IMO) analyses I have seen tend to put the number at somewhere around $22M.

One thing to mention about the above projection regardless of the number used is that the 3rd year tag is not 20% above the 2nd year, but a 44% increase...so the numbers using the $18M tag would be $18M/$21.6M/$31.1M

Using the $21M number, it would be $21M/$25.2M/$36.3M

EDIT: I meant to use $22M, which would be $22M/$26.4M/$38M

 

[StoneCold]

No, you can't know, because it all depends on the 5 highest paid players at the position for that year. It is all speculation.

Ah, that's good to know. I thought there were hard, known numbers for getting franchised. With a spread of more than 5 mil per year, speculation has a lot of room for BS. With the difference on a 3 year deal being as much as plus or minus 15 mil it's not worth discussing. Back to lurking.

Thanks,
SC

 

[Seafan]

There will be several more threads before the deal is done. Nothing to see here. This is negotiations and it is a fine art.

If RW is willing to take the risk year to year that is his call. He might regret it. The good news is RW will only hit the 2015 cap at $1.5 and there should be more space next year.

 

[onanygivensunday]

I just wish that we could know exactly how far off they are.

Clayton projects Wilson's average salary/year at something close to $21.8M in new money... starting in 2016.

That seems fair to me.

 

[BadgerVid]

I just wish that we could know exactly how far off they are.

Clayton projects Wilson's average salary/year at something close to $21.8M in new money... starting in 2016.

That seems fair to me.

If forced to play out '15 for $1.5M, I would be really surprised if RW took that number. But I guess none of us will know until the '16 season starts or a deal is signed before then.

 

[StoneCold]

I just wish that we could know exactly how far off they are.

Clayton projects Wilson's average salary/year at something close to $21.8M in new money... starting in 2016.

That seems fair to me.

If forced to play out '15 for $1.5M, I would be really surprised if RW took that number. But I guess none of us will know until the '16 season starts or a deal is signed before then.

I wish someone would force me to do something for 1.5 mil. Twist my arm baby!

SC

 

[rideaducati]

I've been hearing this same line of thought from Clayton. It makes sense. If he can make 18 to 20 mil this hear he is ahead of the game. Could he not sign a 3 year deal at say $19.5, $21 and 22.5? That way he'd get paid well for this year and be up to take another bite at the apple in 2018?

SC

Russell might like that, but why would the Hawks do that? If a new deal is done with an elite QB, teams like to sign them to a minimum of 5 years, if not longer in order to spread out the guaranteed money and bonus.

In your example the cap hit would be an average of 21M over the next three years. Right now the Hawks have control over Russell for four years (2015 + 3 years of franchise) with an approximate average salary of 16M over the next four years.

1.5M
18M (current QB franchise)
20M (+20%)
24M (+20%)

That's 5M a year savings to spend elsewhere.

So if anything's going to be done, it has to benefit both sides..........and like I said the only way the Hawks do an extension is if it's for a long period to take advantage of spreading out the contract AND the incremental increase each year of cap space.

Up thread jlwalters stated Russell would get paid 25M in 2106 if franchised. I've seen and heard a few different numbers starting in Kearly's thread about the 3 year min of 45M deal. Does anyone know exactly what it would cost the Hawks to franchise Russell for 2016 and 2017?

How the hell is the franchise tag going to be $25 million when there won't be five QBs in the league making more than $21 million? There is no way that these QBs with the $30+million cap hits for 2016 make it to next season without having their contracts redone.

 

[rideaducati]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

 

[Anthony!]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

Barring a change at the top tagging Wilson will be 25 mil next year if we tag him and then 36 the year after which would be to much for the hawks. Either they get a deal done or e have him for year and that all. FYI if they did tag him year 2 and then look at year 3 it would be 51 mil. Over those 3 years of tagging Wilson will have been paid 112.8 mil with his 1.5 this year total over 4 years 114 mil or 28.5 mil a year. Still confused why offering 4 years 100 mil or 5 years 101.5 mil with this year is an issue given what it could cost us.

 

[rideaducati]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

Barring a change at the top tagging Wilson will be 25 mil next year if we tag him and then 36 the year after which would be to much for the hawks. Either they get a deal done or e have him for year and that all. FYI if they did tag him year 2 and then look at year 3 it would be 51 mil. Over those 3 years of tagging Wilson will have been paid 112.8 mil with his 1.5 this year total over 4 years 114 mil or 28.5 mil a year. Still confused why offering 4 years 100 mil or 5 years 101.5 mil with this year is an issue given what it could cost us.

As of now, the tag would only be $30 million year two for Russell. $25 million first tag × 120% = $30 million.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

You're looking at cap value which includes bonuses. The franchise tag is based on the top salaries, not including bonuses.

Here are the salary figures: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... arterback/

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

It's like a big school project or job presentation, I'm sure it had lots of spreadsheets, graphs, pie charts. So no, 16 pages doesn't seem excessive.

My only head scratcher is why Russell's agent would go public that he even sent the 16 pager. Why put that out there for consumption? What's to gain from Russell's side that this happened?

 

[Anthony!]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

Barring a change at the top tagging Wilson will be 25 mil next year if we tag him and then 36 the year after which would be to much for the hawks. Either they get a deal done or e have him for year and that all. FYI if they did tag him year 2 and then look at year 3 it would be 51 mil. Over those 3 years of tagging Wilson will have been paid 112.8 mil with his 1.5 this year total over 4 years 114 mil or 28.5 mil a year. Still confused why offering 4 years 100 mil or 5 years 101.5 mil with this year is an issue given what it could cost us.

As of now, the tag would only be $30 million year two for Russell. $25 million first tag × 120% = $30 million.

its 44% not 25%

 

[Anthony!]

I guess without reading it I can't criticize it. But 16 pages? Hope he used a really big font. I like Russ, but I can't think of 16 pages of why he should get paid.

It's like a big school project or job presentation, I'm sure it had lots of spreadsheets, graphs, pie charts. So no, 16 pages doesn't seem excessive.

My only head scratcher is why Russell's agent would go public that he even sent the 16 pager. Why put that out there for consumption? What's to gain from Russell's side that this happened?

We do not know it was his agent that told the press, they said someone close to the situation, could be a hawks employee for all we know. the email provider, who knows

 

[Anthony!]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

You're looking at cap value which includes bonuses. The franchise tag is based on the top salaries, not including bonuses.

Here are the salary figures: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... arterback/

Clayton was on KJR saying the tag for next year would be 25 mil and go up 44% the following year and again after that.

 

[rideaducati]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

Barring a change at the top tagging Wilson will be 25 mil next year if we tag him and then 36 the year after which would be to much for the hawks. Either they get a deal done or e have him for year and that all. FYI if they did tag him year 2 and then look at year 3 it would be 51 mil. Over those 3 years of tagging Wilson will have been paid 112.8 mil with his 1.5 this year total over 4 years 114 mil or 28.5 mil a year. Still confused why offering 4 years 100 mil or 5 years 101.5 mil with this year is an issue given what it could cost us.

As of now, the tag would only be $30 million year two for Russell. $25 million first tag × 120% = $30 million.

its 44% not 25%

The second time the tag is used, the salary is 120% of previous year. Where are you getting your info?

 

[Tical21]

Him and his friends are charting it all from the stands. But then he got a new computer, so the info might not be correct.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

You're looking at cap value which includes bonuses. The franchise tag is based on the top salaries, not including bonuses.

Here are the salary figures: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... arterback/

Clayton was on KJR saying the tag for next year would be 25 mil and go up 44% the following year and again after that.

The 44% raise would be for the 3rd year of being franchised.

From PFT:

Wilson, who has carried the injury risk for the last three years, ultimately may be willing to take $1.5 million for 2015 and force the Seahawks to use the franchise tag in 2016. Seattle would have to apply the exclusive tag or risk a quarterback-desperate team gladly giving up two first-round picks for him. And that could put the franchise tender between $20 and $25 million for 2016.

Then, Wilson could choose to go year to year, securing a 20-percent raise for 2017 and a 44-percent raise for 2018. Even if the Seahawks choose to tag Wilson a third time, he’d be 30 when he hits the market in 2019 — and plenty of quarterbacks are currently making gigantic money well beyond the birthday that has become the chariot-to-a-pumpkin moment for players at other positions.

 

[Rocket]

Creating and sending a 16 page, 'Position Paper,' is one thing...but giving that info to the press is stupid-IMHO.

Is he trying to intimidate JS? Does he think going public on this is going to scare JS & The 'Hawks? I doubt it.

Stupid move. :les:

Where is said report given to the press?
Not that it exists, but the report itself?
I wanna read it.

If I've misunderstood you, please accept my heartfelt apology as I defer to your Ancient Age™

 

[Anthony!]

Damn.... I was wrong..http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

it's almost 25 million without Luck's deal.

You're looking at cap value which includes bonuses. The franchise tag is based on the top salaries, not including bonuses.

Here are the salary figures: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... arterback/

Clayton was on KJR saying the tag for next year would be 25 mil and go up 44% the following year and again after that.

The 44% raise would be for the 3rd year of being franchised.

From PFT:

Wilson, who has carried the injury risk for the last three years, ultimately may be willing to take $1.5 million for 2015 and force the Seahawks to use the franchise tag in 2016. Seattle would have to apply the exclusive tag or risk a quarterback-desperate team gladly giving up two first-round picks for him. And that could put the franchise tender between $20 and $25 million for 2016.

Then, Wilson could choose to go year to year, securing a 20-percent raise for 2017 and a 44-percent raise for 2018. Even if the Seahawks choose to tag Wilson a third time, he’d be 30 when he hits the market in 2019 — and plenty of quarterbacks are currently making gigantic money well beyond the birthday that has become the chariot-to-a-pumpkin moment for players at other positions.

Ahh I must have misread that then thanks. However still 25 mil all hitting our cap at once is going to be tough next year, then 30 mil the year after is going to be tougher. I just do not see it, if they are trying not to give much over 20 now they will not want to Tag him at 25. They might use the transition tag and let him get a deal and then match but that could be dangerous as heck.