Why Didn't the Seahawks Trade Down?

[chris98251]

Consider the company that Penny is now in, Curt Warner and Shaun Alexander, those guys worked out ok as first rounders.

 

[HawaiiD]

The way i see... is that for the 27th pick we got a very good running back and a 3rd round pick in this years draft. So i'm very happy with the result.


Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

 

[massari]

Penny also led the draft class in elusive rating – PFF’s rushing metric that attempts to distil what a back did independent of the blocking that was given to him by looking at broken tackles and yards after contact. Penny broke 80 tackles on the ground last season and two more as a receiver. That figure was by far the most of anybody in this draft class, more than 20 clear of the rest of the field.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-san-diego-state-rb-rashaad-penny-a-first-round-talent

With the above stats think about our offensive line last year. Now, it should start to become clear why Penny was the best fit for Seattle in the FO's eyes to immediately improve the running game.

This was the kind of response I was hoping for. Thank you!

Also, just found this breakdown of Penny and suggests those numbers may be inflated.

[youtube]WWkE0a2LAKk[/youtube]

 

[original poster]

This is typical "talent can only be found in the first round syndrome".

They literally addressed all the needs you listed, just because they're not 1st round picks doesn't mean they're set for failure.

If they'd have gone DL in the first would you moan they didn't go OL and corner (and RB!)?

 

[SanDiego49er]

Because you got a star in Rashaad Penny. He is worth every bit of where you picked him and much more than that in fact. He is far better than the 27th best player in this draft. I can tell you that much. You got a top 10 - 15 player in this draft. If he stays healthy and you put a decent O Line in front of him he will go to Pro Bowls. When you see him play you will understand. I can tell you lack familiarity with Penny. Because if you were familiar with him and had seen him play this would not even be a question. Don't pay attention to the so called "draft expert" sites on the internet. Any arm chair guy can build a site and call himself a draft expert and tons and tons of them do. They just watch big name programs. They have never watched Penny. San Diego State doesn't get a lot of nationally televised games. I've seen him play every game of his career. Both home and away. In person and on TV. You got a star on your team. When you see how good he is he will be a fan favorite. Be thankful that you got him. I wish we did. But you guys got him and you are about to find out how good he really is.

 

[massari]

This is typical "talent can only be found in the first round syndrome".

They literally addressed all the needs you listed, just because they're not 1st round picks doesn't mean they're set for failure.

If they'd have gone DL in the first would you moan they didn't go OL and corner (and RB!)?

Sorry for questioning (moaning about) a particular move there, hardcore. :|

The question was basically what makes picking Penny a priority over getting extra picks and RB's they can get in the 2nd-4th rounds + a free agent like CJ Anderson (now signed elsewhere)? Usually the RB position is the most common to find a stud in the 2nd-4th rounds that will be able to contribute early on in his rookie season.

With so many holes thanks to injuries and players being traded/leaving via free agency, would've thought they'd try to get more early picks and go for a RB outside the 1st rd.

So like the title of this thread reads "Why didn't the Seahawks trade down?". "DJrmb" has been the most help answering that.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

This is typical "talent can only be found in the first round syndrome".

They literally addressed all the needs you listed, just because they're not 1st round picks doesn't mean they're set for failure.

If they'd have gone DL in the first would you moan they didn't go OL and corner (and RB!)?

Sorry for questioning (moaning about) a particular move there, hardcore. :|

The question was basically what makes picking Penny a priority over getting extra picks and RB's they can get in the 2nd-4th rounds + a free agent like CJ Anderson (now signed elsewhere)? Usually the RB position is the most common to find a stud in the 2nd-4th rounds that will be able to contribute early on in his rookie season.

Maybe the Seahawks don't evaluate RB's the way you do. Maybe they don't agree that the position is easier to draft in the middle rounds. Or maybe they didn't like Ballage (understandable) or Anderson (even more understandable) as much as you do.

And I suspect they aren't as down on their CB, OL, or DL spots as you are.

Honestly, bro, I think your question has been answered by a lot of people in this thread. You walked in treating "RB is easier to fill in the middle rounds" as some fundamental unquestionable axiom of the universe. The Seahawks obviously disagreed.

 

[Seymour]

This is typical "talent can only be found in the first round syndrome".

They literally addressed all the needs you listed, just because they're not 1st round picks doesn't mean they're set for failure.

If they'd have gone DL in the first would you moan they didn't go OL and corner (and RB!)?

Sorry for questioning (moaning about) a particular move there, hardcore. :|

The question was basically what makes picking Penny a priority over getting extra picks and RB's they can get in the 2nd-4th rounds + a free agent like CJ Anderson (now signed elsewhere)? Usually the RB position is the most common to find a stud in the 2nd-4th rounds that will be able to contribute early on in his rookie season.

With so many holes thanks to injuries and players being traded/leaving via free agency, would've thought they'd try to get more early picks and go for a RB outside the 1st rd.

So like the title of this thread reads "Why didn't the Seahawks trade down?". "DJrmb" has been the most help answering that.

Well, they've tried that. Michael and Turbin are 2nd and 4th round whiffs. So if Penny does perform as advertised, I think this will begin to make more sense.

 

[original poster]

This is typical "talent can only be found in the first round syndrome".

They literally addressed all the needs you listed, just because they're not 1st round picks doesn't mean they're set for failure.

If they'd have gone DL in the first would you moan they didn't go OL and corner (and RB!)?

Sorry for questioning (moaning about) a particular move there, hardcore. :|

The question was basically what makes picking Penny a priority over getting extra picks and RB's they can get in the 2nd-4th rounds + a free agent like CJ Anderson (now signed elsewhere)? Usually the RB position is the most common to find a stud in the 2nd-4th rounds that will be able to contribute early on in his rookie season.

Maybe the Seahawks don't evaluate RB's the way you do. Maybe they don't agree that the position is easier to draft in the middle rounds. Or maybe they didn't like Ballage (understandable) or Anderson (even more understandable) as much as you do.

And I suspect they aren't as down on their CB, OL, or DL spots as you are.

Honestly, bro, I think your question has been answered by a lot of people in this thread. You walked in treating "RB is easier to fill in the middle rounds" as some fundamental unquestionable axiom of the universe. The Seahawks obviously disagreed.

Nailed it.

 

[BullHawk33]

Everyone thinks it is so easy to move down in the draft and get good value. That is flawed thinking. Deals may appear in one pick and disappear the next. Just because one deal was made to trade down didn't mean that the Seahawks could have received the same deal.

The answer is simple, John took Penny because he felt his value was higher than the options he had to trade out of that spot.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Stalking me again breh?

You.... posted a hilariously bad post in a public forum, but yeah, I'm 'stalking you breh' :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look at it this way. Would you rather have Penny in the 1st and a guy like Dorance Armstrong/ Holton Hill in the 3rd or would you rather have a guy like Rasheem Green/Landry/Mo Hurst/Oliver/Josh Jackson/Corbett ect ect in the 2nd and a RB like Kalen Ballage/John Kelly/CJ Anderson+2019 2nd round pick?

Oddly enough they got Green. Even better, massari the best GM yet to be christened as such is getting up in arms at passing over ...
- Holton Hill (a guy I liked) that went undrafted
- Dorance Armstrong .. a guy that went in the 4th, so literally nothing changed from not magically trading down
- Maurice Hurst .. a guy that was clearly not on the Seahawks board in the end, probably because of his heart condition.. and a guy that went in R5 where the Seahawks had 3 picks.
- Josh Jackson .. a corner that would never have been selected because he didn't fit any size requirement - how you do not know what they look for in CB's by now is anyone's guess.
- Kalen Ballage - LOLLLL
- John Kelly (another guy I liked) .. would actually have liked this, buttt he also went in Round 6. Again, clearly the Seahawks didn't give him a lot of love
- CJ Anderson - just LULZ.

No shit Penny is considered better at this point than RB's like Ballage/Kelly ect, but it's a hell of a lot easier finding RB's later than pass rushers, corners and OL. AND they'd of gotten a 2nd rounder next year.

Hopefully Schneider didn't turn down an even bigger off than what the Ravens gave up to the Eagles.

Wow it's crazy how you've yet to be hired by an NFL front office. Truly.

 

[purpleneer]

*cough, cough* settling for Jerramy Stevens *cough*

 

[Schadie001]

The Seahawks did trade down to 27. But if you had listened to Pete and John talk pre draft that was the plan all along. There may not have been anyone willing to make a reasonable trade for 27, we don't know. They also said that they were shrinking their draft board down to a very few players that they considered "their" type players. Penny obviously was one of them and a couple other teams as well since AZ was going to take him if we didn't and another team called and wanted to trade for him right after we took him. That should tell you something.

To answer your question though Seattle addressed the OL at the middle of last year via M. Brown LT, this offseason via DJ Fluker who will play LG or RG, via the draft in Jones and still have a stable of young guys who will be better, throw in a completely new coaching staff and I see big changes for the better.

They also have addressed CB in that they have Griffin, Coleman, Thorpe, Elliot, Tyson they brought in Dontae Johnson, resigned B. Maxwell and drafted Tre Flowers.

And then the DL, not sure how we didn't address that either. We have F. Clark, Quitton Jefferson, Naz Jones, Dion Jordon, Jarran Reed, Marcus Smith, signed Brandon Jackson, and Shamar Stephen and then drafted S. Griffin (who can rush passer), and Rasheem Green, plus UDFA Poona Ford.

I'd say we are pretty set at all of those positions and then some. Really RB was a huge need and we got a gamer who is also one of the best return men as well. Bonus!!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

EDIT: What is it that separates him from the other RB's that could've been had in rounds 2-4?

1. We did trade down already once

2. Pete explained Penny in great detail. He's EXACTLY the big, physical, durable, punishing back that catches and blocks well............and he's fast as hell.

My only contention with Penny is he better be our bell cow 20-25 carry a game back, or else yes we wasted a 1st round pick. You draft a RB in the 1st round, he better be more than just a dude thrown into your RBBC group.

 

[purpleneer]

My only contention with Penny is he better be our bell cow 20-25 carry a game back, or else yes we wasted a 1st round pick. You draft a RB in the 1st round, he better be more than just a dude thrown into your RBBC group.

Do you feel the same way about the Patriots and Sony Michel?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

My only contention with Penny is he better be our bell cow 20-25 carry a game back, or else yes we wasted a 1st round pick. You draft a RB in the 1st round, he better be more than just a dude thrown into your RBBC group.

Do you feel the same way about the Patriots and Sony Michel?

No because the Pats had two first rounders, and three picks in the top 54..........so if I'm a Pats fan I'm fine with the Michel pick.

So IMO a bad comparison, draft wise and offense wise. Pete wants our offense to be smash mouth run based, while the Pats use a stable of backs depending on the scheme and offensive playcalling week to week.

That's not us, this pick is VITAL for a team rebuilding desperately needing to get the offense going, AND that didn't have a 2nd round pick.

So no, if Penny's just going to split carries and play special teams? Not 1st round worthy, your first round pick EVERY year needs to be an impact every down type of player.

 

[scutterhawk]

Penny also led the draft class in elusive rating – PFF’s rushing metric that attempts to distil what a back did independent of the blocking that was given to him by looking at broken tackles and yards after contact. Penny broke 80 tackles on the ground last season and two more as a receiver. That figure was by far the most of anybody in this draft class, more than 20 clear of the rest of the field.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-san-diego-state-rb-rashaad-penny-a-first-round-talent

With the above stats think about our offensive line last year. Now, it should start to become clear why Penny was the best fit for Seattle in the FO's eyes to immediately improve the running game.

^ This ^ AND to add, if Solari can Coach up the O-Line to do just a smidge better, Penny could potentially have an even better chance to break for a few more big runs.
I liked the pick, and was ecstatic when his name was called....Same with Flowers & Griffin. :irishdrinkers:

 

[purpleneer]

My only contention with Penny is he better be our bell cow 20-25 carry a game back, or else yes we wasted a 1st round pick. You draft a RB in the 1st round, he better be more than just a dude thrown into your RBBC group.

Do you feel the same way about the Patriots and Sony Michel?

No because the Pats had two first rounders, and three picks in the top 54..........so if I'm a Pats fan I'm fine with the Michel pick.

So IMO a bad comparison, draft wise and offense wise. Pete wants our offense to be smash mouth run based, while the Pats use a stable of backs depending on the scheme and offensive playcalling week to week.

That's not us, this pick is VITAL for a team rebuilding desperately needing to get the offense going, AND that didn't have a 2nd round pick.

So no, if Penny's just going to split carries and play special teams? Not 1st round worthy, your first round pick EVERY year needs to be an impact every down type of player.

Ok then. I'll just accept that methods matter to you more than winning.

 

[chris98251]

Well unlike other teams Pete plays guys that earn the position no matter the draft pick status or whether they are F.A. pickups or undrafted. Keeps high level guys hungry and gives us depth showing F.A. and UDFA they can play if they work.

Carson and Penny have different styles, I am of the mind of having a guy that's a starter and plays, but having a guy that can come in and play be it for injury or a breather to keep both fresh is a bonus. Turbin just wasn't that guy for us, maybe Carson and or Penny can be. If we can get a 20 to ten split plus Prosise and or McKissic in on plays that give different looks a defense isn't going to take plays off and or know what's coming since they all can perform a function as a receiver and or a RB.

 

[tooshort]

Everyone thinks it is so easy to move down in the draft and get good value. That is flawed thinking. Deals may appear in one pick and disappear the next. Just because one deal was made to trade down didn't mean that the Seahawks could have received the same deal.

The answer is simple, John took Penny because he felt his value was higher than the options he had to trade out of that spot.

A die-hard cards fan told me that he would have hated if we drafted Will Hernandez and then pulled Ballage in the later rounds and this is my response.


In a world where we hadn't given away the 2nd and 3rd rounder already, I think they would have felt comfortable taking Hernandez and maneuvering for their 2nd or 3rd RB choice. That said, they didn't have those picks and my bet is that Michel , Chubb , and Kerryon weren't even on their board due to injury concerns, Guice's character concerns probably dropped him off as well and at that point , the running back board starts looking pretty grim. Ballage has always struck me as Christine Michael 2.0, workout warrior, height/ weight/speed God, without a real feel for the game. So why wouldn't we pick Penny?