Why the double standard? Fire Pete....

[Sgt. Largent]

I've said this 1,000 times on here.

If you hate Bevell and the way the offense is constructed, schemed and run................then you hate Pete. Pete has controlled from day 1 the way he wants everything run on both sides of the ball.

He wants a nasty fast and physical defense, thus 70% of the cap dedicated to that side of the ball. And he wants a ball control emphasis on a punishing run game to open up play action for 3-4 explosive plays a game.

Neither of these plans has worked very well the past two years. The defense isn't the dominant defense anymore that it needs to be to in order to the offense to play the safe pound the rock offense................and the offense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be because Pete and John took risks all along the O-line expecting Russell to continue to make up for those glaring deficiencies, nor has Rawls stayed healthy to pick up where Marshawn left off.

ALL these issues are on Pete and John for how this team was built. Obviously injuries have played a part, but the depth isn't there either like it's been in the past for the next man up to fill in and play well. ALSO on John and Pete.

This is largely a straw man argument that Siouxhawk also promotes. Many on here, including myself, are not griping about a punishing run game style or about a ball controlled offense. It is about Bevell's poor timing of his plays and weird esoteric play formations that he runs that make no sense. Pete Carroll is not in Bevell's ear saying "run this play", "pass on this play", "do that funky 5 receiver empty backfield thing you do, I like that". Yes, head coaches step in and will decide whether to run or pass the ball in critical moments but even then they will let the OC decide the formation and type of run or pass play, i.e. slant, sweep, fly.

With all that said, I wouldn't even care what Bevell did if we were not so putrid on our number of first downs we get and our 3 down conversion rate.

If it was a strawman argument, then why didn't Bevell run the same offense in Minnesota. If this is all he's ever known and called, his offensive playcalling and scheming would mirror what he did there.

Just as he did in Minnesota, Bevell runs the style of offense his head coach wants, and is conducive to his personnel.

So the OP has a great point, and one myself and Sioux has backed up. Bevell's not bulletproof, but he is literally just running the scheme and plays he, Pete, Russell, Cable and the rest of the offensive coaches want run.

You can complain about that, but then you have to hold EVERYONE in that meeting room accountable, and most of all Pete.

 

[chris98251]

I have always said it's not his design and or schemes, they are actually good, it is how he calls plays and personnel usage during games. Situational situations is where he fails in my view.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I have always said it's not his design and or schemes, they are actually good, it is how he calls plays and personnel usage during games. Situational situations is where he fails in my view.

To me it's the exact opposite.

If there's a big criticism of our offensive coaches and Pete, it's the way they prepare and scheme for games. That's why our offense usually stinks in the first half, whatever gameplan scheming they've come up with doesn't work.

Once the game gets going? That's when Bevell is able to work through what the other team's doing defensively and comes up with the right adjustments usually to get the offense rolling....................but in the 2nd half.

Why not the first half? Why is that a chronic issue? To me that means bad gameplanning and scheme by everyone involved.

 

[chris98251]

Well the situational situations is a lot of it, take a team with worst run defense and you try to throw on them to start the game, you keep throwing until you get behind, then you run and it works, we get ahead and we start throwing again.

Running and running because it works and then making them sell out with 7 or 8 defenders to stop it allows the big chunk pass plays that you take their heart out with. That's just one example.

 

[hawkfan68]

I've said this 1,000 times on here.

If you hate Bevell and the way the offense is constructed, schemed and run................then you hate Pete. Pete has controlled from day 1 the way he wants everything run on both sides of the ball.

He wants a nasty fast and physical defense, thus 70% of the cap dedicated to that side of the ball. And he wants a ball control emphasis on a punishing run game to open up play action for 3-4 explosive plays a game.

Neither of these plans has worked very well the past two years. The defense isn't the dominant defense anymore that it needs to be to in order to the offense to play the safe pound the rock offense................and the offense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be because Pete and John took risks all along the O-line expecting Russell to continue to make up for those glaring deficiencies, nor has Rawls stayed healthy to pick up where Marshawn left off.

ALL these issues are on Pete and John for how this team was built. Obviously injuries have played a part, but the depth isn't there either like it's been in the past for the next man up to fill in and play well. ALSO on John and Pete.

This is largely a straw man argument that Siouxhawk also promotes. Many on here, including myself, are not griping about a punishing run game style or about a ball controlled offense. It is about Bevell's poor timing of his plays and weird esoteric play formations that he runs that make no sense. Pete Carroll is not in Bevell's ear saying "run this play", "pass on this play", "do that funky 5 receiver empty backfield thing you do, I like that". Yes, head coaches step in and will decide whether to run or pass the ball in critical moments but even then they will let the OC decide the formation and type of run or pass play, i.e. slant, sweep, fly.

With all that said, I wouldn't even care what Bevell did if we were not so putrid on our number of first downs we get and our 3 down conversion rate.

If it was a strawman argument, then why didn't Bevell run the same offense in Minnesota. If this is all he's ever known and called, his offensive playcalling and scheming would mirror what he did there.

Just as he did in Minnesota, Bevell runs the style of offense his head coach wants, and is conducive to his personnel.

So the OP has a great point, and one myself and Sioux has backed up. Bevell's not bulletproof, but he is literally just running the scheme and plays he, Pete, Russell, Cable and the rest of the offensive coaches want run.

You can complain about that, but then you have to hold EVERYONE in that meeting room accountable, and most of all Pete.

Maybe because he was under an offensive head coach, Brad Childress, who was largely running the offense. Let's not let facts get in the way....it would be as if he were working under Mike Holmgren or Andy Reid or even Mike McCarthy - all head coaches who would have and are dominating the offensive philosophy. Ask Gil Haskell how much freedom he had under Mike H. Gil was Holmgren's OC with the Seahawks.

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

 

[Ad Hawk]

If Bev should go (or have gone long ago), why hasn't Pete fired him yet? It would, after all, be his call to make.

Since that move is on PC, and he hasn't done it like some here think he should, then consistency demands Bev's opponents lay the blame at PC's feet in every "Fire Bev" post they make.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

LOL.........so let me get this straight.

When Bevell was in Minnesota taking them from the #23 offense to two straight years at #5 total offense, that was all Brad Childress.............but when he's here taking us from the #28 offense in 2011 to #9, #4 and #12 this year it's all his fault cause Pete's a defensive coach.

Talk about a strawman argument.

The facts are the facts, Bevell's now been in two spots taking a putrid offense to a perennial top 10 offense..........and if not for Russell's injury, terrible RB and O-line play we'd be there again. WITH only 35% of cap space dedicated to that side of the ball.

 

[hawkfan68]

If Bev should go (or have gone long ago), why hasn't Pete fired him yet? It would, after all, be his call to make.

Since that move is on PC, and he hasn't done it like some here think he should, then consistency demands Bev's opponents lay the blame at PC's feet in every "Fire Bev" post they make.

Bevell's not a bad coach. He just lacks situational awareness. The SB49 call was not a bad one. It was a good call, it's the personnel grouping that made the call bad. Had he had Luke Willson in Lockette's spot or even Chris Matthews (who was having a terrific game), heck they could have even gone with Marshawn Lynch in Lockette's spot, I bet that same play would have more success. That's the problem. That the continuing issues in the red zone. He knows the difficulty due to RW physicality (short, etc) there. He's worked with him for 5 years now and the red zone offense hasn't gotten any better. Can't he adjust to take advantage of RW's mobility and design plays specifically that work in that area. It's not like this is his first year with the guys on offense (skill guys). He's good but he can be better. He is failing to be better, that's the issue (at least for me regarding Bevell).

 

[hawkfan68]

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

LOL.........so let me get this straight.

When Bevell was in Minnesota taking them from the #23 offense to two straight years at #5 total offense, that was all Brad Childress.............but when he's here taking us from the #28 offense in 2011 to #9, #4 and #12 this year it's all his fault cause Pete's a defensive coach.

Talk about a strawman argument.

The facts are the facts, Bevell's now been in two spots taking a putrid offense to a perennial top 10 offense..........and if not for Russell's injury, terrible RB and O-line play we'd be there again. WITH only 35% of cap space dedicated to that side of the ball.

Would you like some cheese to go with your whine....waah waah waah!

Other teams have faced injury and stars missing games. Yet they kept rolling.

KC is a defensive minded team, meaning more talent on the defensive side vs their offense. I'm willing to bet they have less talent on the offensive side than the Seahawks...what's their record again? They played in a more competitive division than the Seahawks this season too.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

LOL.........so let me get this straight.

When Bevell was in Minnesota taking them from the #23 offense to two straight years at #5 total offense, that was all Brad Childress.............but when he's here taking us from the #28 offense in 2011 to #9, #4 and #12 this year it's all his fault cause Pete's a defensive coach.

Talk about a strawman argument.

The facts are the facts, Bevell's now been in two spots taking a putrid offense to a perennial top 10 offense..........and if not for Russell's injury, terrible RB and O-line play we'd be there again. WITH only 35% of cap space dedicated to that side of the ball.

Would you like some cheese to go with your whine....waah waah waah!

Other teams have faced injury and stars missing games. Yet they kept rolling.

KC is a defensive minded team, meaning more talent on the defensive side vs their offense. I'm willing to bet they have less talent on the offensive side than the Seahawks...what's their record again? They played in a more competitive division than the Seahawks this season too.

You mean KC the #20th ranked offense this year? lol, if you're gonna throw out an example, you should do your homework and pick an offense at least ranked higher than ours.

 

[hawkfan68]

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

LOL.........so let me get this straight.

When Bevell was in Minnesota taking them from the #23 offense to two straight years at #5 total offense, that was all Brad Childress.............but when he's here taking us from the #28 offense in 2011 to #9, #4 and #12 this year it's all his fault cause Pete's a defensive coach.

Talk about a strawman argument.

The facts are the facts, Bevell's now been in two spots taking a putrid offense to a perennial top 10 offense..........and if not for Russell's injury, terrible RB and O-line play we'd be there again. WITH only 35% of cap space dedicated to that side of the ball.

Would you like some cheese to go with your whine....waah waah waah!

Other teams have faced injury and stars missing games. Yet they kept rolling.

KC is a defensive minded team, meaning more talent on the defensive side vs their offense. I'm willing to bet they have less talent on the offensive side than the Seahawks...what's their record again? They played in a more competitive division than the Seahawks this season too.

You mean KC the #20th ranked offense this year? lol, if you're gonna throw out an example, you should do your homework and pick an offense at least ranked higher than ours.

I acknowledged they have a worse offense talent wise. They seem to be able to put up 24.3 points a game. Scoring offense is more important than total yards. KC has a better scoring offense than the Seahawks. Maybe you should follow your own advice and research...lol!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I acknowledged they have a worse offense talent wise. They seem to be able to put up 24.3 points a game. Scoring offense is more important than total yards. KC has a better scoring offense than the Seahawks. Maybe you should follow your own advice and research...lol!

Hawks score 22.2 pts per game. Wow 2 more points a game, they're amazing!

I got it, you hate Bevell. But like most Bevell haters on here you have zero stats or factual evidence to back up your opinion other than obscure comparisons and hyperbole.

Bevell sucks..........cause KC! Cause Brad Childress! good lord.

 

[hawkfan68]

I acknowledged they have a worse offense talent wise. They seem to be able to put up 24.3 points a game. Scoring offense is more important than total yards. KC has a better scoring offense than the Seahawks. Maybe you should follow your own advice and research...lol!

Hawks score 22.2 pts per game. Wow 2 more points a game, they're amazing!

I got it, you hate Bevell. But like most Bevell haters on here you have zero stats or factual evidence to back up your opinion other than obscure comparisons and hyperbole.

Bevell sucks..........cause KC! Cause Brad Childress! good lord.

I said in an earlier post Bevell is a good coach. He could be a better coach and you believe that I hate Bevell. Wow.

 

[Ad Hawk]

If Bev should go (or have gone long ago), why hasn't Pete fired him yet? It would, after all, be his call to make.

Since that move is on PC, and he hasn't done it like some here think he should, then consistency demands Bev's opponents lay the blame at PC's feet in every "Fire Bev" post they make.

Bevell's not a bad coach. He just lacks situational awareness. The SB49 call was not a bad one. It was a good call, it's the personnel grouping that made the call bad. Had he had Luke Willson in Lockette's spot or even Chris Matthews (who was having a terrific game), heck they could have even gone with Marshawn Lynch in Lockette's spot, I bet that same play would have more success. That's the problem. That the continuing issues in the red zone. He knows the difficulty due to RW physicality (short, etc) there. He's worked with him for 5 years now and the red zone offense hasn't gotten any better. Can't he adjust to take advantage of RW's mobility and design plays specifically that work in that area. It's not like this is his first year with the guys on offense (skill guys). He's good but he can be better. He is failing to be better, that's the issue (at least for me regarding Bevell).

Let me be clear here - I'm not talking about posts about Bev's play-calling awareness here. I think we can, and should, debate about that. I agree with your points, too. I don't like our offense's inconsistency, either, and I know Bev has a role in it (just not all of it).

My beef is with the poor logic of the "fire Bev" crowd who won't lay the problem at PC's feet for keeping him around; they would never argue PC should leave! Bev is a safe target on many levels, partly because he's earned some disrespect, partly because he's not in the spotlight, not the Seahawk's SB savior.

No, this is PC's team, and he shoulders the blame for its failures. Why yell "Fire Bev," but at all costs keep the man keeping him and according to some, squandering our talent and window? It makes no sense. This is a package deal right now.

 

[flmmkrz]

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

LOL.........so let me get this straight.

When Bevell was in Minnesota taking them from the #23 offense to two straight years at #5 total offense, that was all Brad Childress.............but when he's here taking us from the #28 offense in 2011 to #9, #4 and #12 this year it's all his fault cause Pete's a defensive coach.

Talk about a strawman argument.

The facts are the facts, Bevell's now been in two spots taking a putrid offense to a perennial top 10 offense..........and if not for Russell's injury, terrible RB and O-line play we'd be there again. WITH only 35% of cap space dedicated to that side of the ball.

lmao yes that was all Bevells doing in both instances...

in Minny, dumb lucking his way into Adrian Peterson, and Brett Favre didn't help at all. I don't remember fantastic offensive numbers before those guys showed up. Funny how an oc will look good with a couple hof'ers at key positions

Now Bevell pre Wilson, again nothing special granted not a huge sample size but still didn't create any magical turnaround but you get yourself a qb and a star rb and again the offense swings up, funny how that happens.

the facts are the facts, that with top offensive talents to work with an average oc can look pretty damn good. So yes you're probably right, if he had a better oline and a better healthy rb he could look pretty good again but then most ocs could. That doesn't make them good, that makes them not good enough to not screw up a sure thing.

The question isn't whether he can do well if he has all the pieces in place, it's is he getting the most out of what he has. You've said it yourself we've gone full halves that the offense can't move the damn ball and you're pointing to the 12th place stat, where we ran up some numbers on some very bad teams as something to hang your hat on when we looked downright inept against some other very bad to average teams. I can't believe watching this offense that you don't think that this offensive play calling and game planning in general wasn't good enough this year. That's not all on him but that's his unit so the largest part of that falls on him. Mike Rob said that the game adjustments at half were largely Cable so the guy coming up with the game plan coming in has us struggling, the guy changing it up isn't him, our red zone efficiency is regressing, we're predictable and somehow Bevell isn't part of the problem. I don't get it. He isn't the only problem for sure but he's not the solution. No way he's a top 10 oc in the nfl right now. That's why he's nowhere near a hc gig, he's the perennial in the discussion guy that never gets a sniff because others see it.

 

[flmmkrz]

If Bev should go (or have gone long ago), why hasn't Pete fired him yet? It would, after all, be his call to make.

Since that move is on PC, and he hasn't done it like some here think he should, then consistency demands Bev's opponents lay the blame at PC's feet in every "Fire Bev" post they make.

Bevell's not a bad coach. He just lacks situational awareness. The SB49 call was not a bad one. It was a good call, it's the personnel grouping that made the call bad. Had he had Luke Willson in Lockette's spot or even Chris Matthews (who was having a terrific game), heck they could have even gone with Marshawn Lynch in Lockette's spot, I bet that same play would have more success. That's the problem. That the continuing issues in the red zone. He knows the difficulty due to RW physicality (short, etc) there. He's worked with him for 5 years now and the red zone offense hasn't gotten any better. Can't he adjust to take advantage of RW's mobility and design plays specifically that work in that area. It's not like this is his first year with the guys on offense (skill guys). He's good but he can be better. He is failing to be better, that's the issue (at least for me regarding Bevell).

Let me be clear here - I'm not talking about posts about Bev's play-calling awareness here. I think we can, and should, debate about that. I agree with your points, too. I don't like our offense's inconsistency, either, and I know Bev has a role in it (just not all of it).

My beef is with the poor logic of the "fire Bev" crowd who won't lay the problem at PC's feet for keeping him around; they would never argue PC should leave! Bev is a safe target on many levels, partly because he's earned some disrespect, partly because he's not in the spotlight, not the Seahawk's SB savior.

No, this is PC's team, and he shoulders the blame for its failures. Why yell "Fire Bev," but at all costs keep the man keeping him and according to some, squandering our talent and window? It makes no sense. This is a package deal right now.

Petes not without some blame here, but this is spot to vent at times, to cheer at others, and every other great emotion this game brings with it. It's a place for fanatics, by definition not the place for logic.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As Pete is more of a defensive minded HC, Bevell and Cable have more input into the offense here than Bevell had in Minnesota.

LOL.........so let me get this straight.

When Bevell was in Minnesota taking them from the #23 offense to two straight years at #5 total offense, that was all Brad Childress.............but when he's here taking us from the #28 offense in 2011 to #9, #4 and #12 this year it's all his fault cause Pete's a defensive coach.

Talk about a strawman argument.

The facts are the facts, Bevell's now been in two spots taking a putrid offense to a perennial top 10 offense..........and if not for Russell's injury, terrible RB and O-line play we'd be there again. WITH only 35% of cap space dedicated to that side of the ball.

lmao yes that was all Bevells doing in both instances...

in Minny, dumb lucking his way into Adrian Peterson, and Brett Favre didn't help at all. I don't remember fantastic offensive numbers before those guys showed up. Funny how an oc will look good with a couple hof'ers at key positions

Now Bevell pre Wilson, again nothing special granted not a huge sample size but still didn't create any magical turnaround but you get yourself a qb and a star rb and again the offense swings up, funny how that happens.

the facts are the facts, that with top offensive talents to work with an average oc can look pretty damn good. So yes you're probably right, if he had a better oline and a better healthy rb he could look pretty good again but then most ocs could. That doesn't make them good, that makes them not good enough to not screw up a sure thing.

The question isn't whether he can do well if he has all the pieces in place, it's is he getting the most out of what he has. You've said it yourself we've gone full halves that the offense can't move the damn ball and you're pointing to the 12th place stat, where we ran up some numbers on some very bad teams as something to hang your hat on when we looked downright inept against some other very bad to average teams. I can't believe watching this offense that you don't think that this offensive play calling and game planning in general wasn't good enough this year. That's not all on him but that's his unit so the largest part of that falls on him. Mike Rob said that the game adjustments at half were largely Cable so the guy coming up with the game plan coming in has us struggling, the guy changing it up isn't him, our red zone efficiency is regressing, we're predictable and somehow Bevell isn't part of the problem. I don't get it. He isn't the only problem for sure but he's not the solution. No way he's a top 10 oc in the nfl right now. That's why he's nowhere near a hc gig, he's the perennial in the discussion guy that never gets a sniff because others see it.

I've said from day one of defending Bevell that this is a team effort, if the offense stinks then it's on everyone, including Russell, Pete, and Bevell...........and if we win then they should also get credit.

Just like in Minnesota, of course if you have great players your chance of success is high. Look how Rodger's makes Bennett look like a genius O-coordinator.

But for some reason when we're the #4 offense in the league last year, that's all Russell and the other players.........but when we stink, it's FIRE BEVELL!

All I ask of Bevell haters is to be fair and equitable in their hate. It can't be all or none, or else it renders your opinions meaningless. Is he perfect? Nope, when we lose he's just as culpable as the players and Pete.

But when we score 41, give the man his due, just as we give the players and Pete their due.

 

[hawkfan68]

I acknowledged they have a worse offense talent wise. They seem to be able to put up 24.3 points a game. Scoring offense is more important than total yards. KC has a better scoring offense than the Seahawks. Maybe you should follow your own advice and research...lol!

Hawks score 22.2 pts per game. Wow 2 more points a game, they're amazing!

I got it, you hate Bevell. But like most Bevell haters on here you have zero stats or factual evidence to back up your opinion other than obscure comparisons and hyperbole.

Bevell sucks..........cause KC! Cause Brad Childress! good lord.

As for zero stats and factual evidence - I did supply stats and facts (stats) to back up my reasoning. It's up to you to acknowledge those. It's a fact that KC averages more points a game than the Seahawks. Whether it was by .1 or by 50, the fact is they are higher in that stat than Seattle. One or two points could have made a difference in the Arizona game (the tie) could it not? Isn't that a fact that had they had scored a TD rather than settle for FG, they would have won 10-6 or 9-6 (missed PAT since that is getting to be common these days). Once again, I think Bevell can be better. All of the coaches on the team and players can. I've come on here and posted when I thought Bevell has done a good job and gave him credit for it. The Pats and Panthers game specifically. I have no problems praising him and giving him credit when they do well. Labeling fans as "Bevell haters" is a huge disservice. People should be able to voice their points of view without having others labeling them as this or that. It's absurd.