Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers

[adeltaY]

The play calling is poor, yes. We need to run the ball more. But Wilson on that pick 6 was a rookie again. I'm hoping Wilson evolves but it may take some time. Rodgers or Brady would have spied the corner, saw that the corner wasn't falling back, then decided to throw to another receiver. On that pick 6 play, Marshall was the guy Wilson should have thrown to. He was wide open in the middle of the field.

Wilson is not at Rodgers or Brady’s level yet, but let’s not pretend as if both Qbs don’t throw pick sixes. In fact, in recent years they’ve probably thrown more than Wilson. Let’s not make stuff up to bolster criticism. Russ’ crappy game gives more than enough material for criticism

I think Rodgers has thrown one, maybe two pick sixes in his entire career.

I believe Wilson now has two in the regular season.

 

[mistaowen]

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

Great post. Schotty is a net neutral/negative change from bevell. Offenses that remain dominant innovate and change to the league. We’re still running the same offense from 2013 thinking marshawn is gonna get 100 yards a night. I really wish they had gone the opposite from bevell and got a young, up and coming offensive mind with a new style instead of another plateaued bevell offense.

 

[mrt144]

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

Great post. Schotty is a net neutral/negative change from bevell. Offenses that remain dominant innovate and change to the league. We’re still running the same offense from 2013 thinking marshawn is gonna get 100 yards a night. I really wish they had gone the opposite from bevell and got a young, up and coming offensive mind with a new style instead of another plateaued bevell offense.

I wish we had the read option

 

[Seanhawk]

I don't get why Penny was split out that far, and get even less why Russ actually threw it to him.

They used to do it with Lynch all the time and I remember at least one pick while making that throw. Makes you wonder how much the offense has really changed.

 

[hawkfannj]

I don't want to pay this guy.

That’s what got us in this mess in the first place.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.

 

[ludakrishna]

2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.

Non-existent adjustment at the Line, staring down receivers, taking 2 quarters to warm up and become competent, failing to throw to open receivers in the middle, not letting the routes develop, risk averse at throwing in close windows, excessive Heroballing down the field...all this is year 7....yep these had nothing to do with the critiques people are levying on him...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Believe what you want. This is a team wide problem on offense. The play calling and o line is extremely pathetic. The run was working, YET AGAIN, and they gave up on it, YET AGAIN. Yes, Russ held on to the ball too long yesterday. How in the world is he supposed to be comfortable behind a swiss cheese O Line and w/play calling that flat out doesn't work?
But to act like he's some horrible QB is just plain dumb. But I expect nothing less on here.

 

[Cyrus12]

2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.

LOL

 

[Tusc2000]

Jesus Christ on a bicycle, who has done more with less people? Not without fault by any means and he will be first to take blame. But seriously, shit line, claim run identity yet stop running, call up all pocket passing when guy has no pocket, never scheme to strengths/weaknesses.

Nailed it. No one has ever done more with less than Russ.

 

[Ozzy]

The Wilson hate is absolutely baffling. The problem is obvious to everyone outside of the Seattle. Its not Russ its Pete. I love Pete and everything hes done for the organization but he's the problem. He's stubborn to a fault with his archaic view of how an offense should be ran. He needed to hire someone who would challenge him, someone who is innovative and able to work in todays NFL and instead he hired another yes man who hasn't been successful at a single stop in his career who bragged about wanting to run into stacked boxes because thats hard nosed football and its completely ridiculous. Pete also has his hands in the offense when he shouldnt. He even alluded to it during the post game when he said he had Schott doing some things in the middle of the game.
Can you guys imagine Russ in KC? Philly? NE? Pitts? He would have multiple mvps by now. He is the second highest rated passer OF ALL TIME, led the league in TD's last year playing on a terrible offensive scheme, with an historically bad line and no run game and yet you guys think he's the problem lol. Can he play better? Sure but the whole process is set up to work against him. I can guarantee you that personnel guys around the league are laughing at how Seattle has approached Wilson and their offense in general the past few years. If I'm Russell and Pete is still there then I leave when I can.

 

[JustinCredible]

Wilson has the highest passer rating for a players first 5 seasons in NFL history. Without Wilson the Seahawks are still a franchise without a Super Bowl.

Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate.

The Russell Wilson hate is mind blowing. The guy has made this franchise relevant. I almost hope he gets traded at this point just so you can see how dumb of an idea that turns out to be.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

After they beat the Cowboys, the back tracking will be a blast. And yes, they are going to beat the Cowboys.

 

[JimmyG]

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

Coaching is not everything. What coaching is is a convenient scapegoat to deflect blame from players. Players need to execute. If they don't execute, nothing else matters.

You're just cherry-picking examples. I can do that too. Everyone here hates Darrel Bevell. He is universally regarded as terrible (now I'm seeing -- predictably -- comments like, "Schotty is equal to, if not worse than Bevell"). I could say, "did you know that in 2009, Brett Favre put up arguably the best year of his career [33 TD, 7 INT, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 Y/A] under a Darrell Bevell offense?"

Or, you cite the 2016 Falcons. Yes, they were an offensive juggernaut. You're right. Matt Ryan had career highs in many categories, and had an explosive year overall (38 TD, 7 INT, 117.1 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A). Here's what you left out: Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator in 2015 too, and the Ryan and the Falcons were very pedestrian.
Ryan, 2015 (Kyle Shanahan): 21 TD, 16 INT, 89.0 passer rating, 7.4 Y/A (21.2 PPG - T21st in the NFL)
Ryan, 2017 (Steve Sarkisian): 20 TD, 12 INT, 91.4 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A (22.1 PPG - 15th in the NFL)

Alex Smith "broke out" in 2011, and transformed into a pretty good QB. This was under Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman, who -- like Pete et al. -- were regarded as dinosaurs that failed to evolve. Then, he got traded to Kansas City, and got to play underneath Andy Reid, a very creative offensive playcaller. Here's a comparison of his numbers:
Smith, 2011-2012 (SF, "old school" scheme): 64.3 CMP%, 4.5 TD%, 1.5%, 95.1 passer rating
Smith, 2013-2017 (KC, innovative mind in Andy Reid): 65.1 CMP%, 4.2 TD%, 1.4%, 94.8 passer rating

Andy Dalton had the best year of his career (25 TD, 7 INT, 106.3 passer rating) under Hue Jackson. Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick continued to look a lot like... Colin Kaepernick, even after being paired with one of the most creative offensive minds in Chip Kelly. I could go on and on.

I do believe that coaching and scheme matters. However, execution is equally as important. This is where fans start to lose objectivity. Any time a play, or drive, fails, they immediately blame the coaches. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if your quarterback is gunshy or starts abandoning clean pockets, it does not matter. Wilson is one of the hardest players in the league to coach because of how often he goes off-script. A scheme can get players open, but if your QB isn't making the reads or the throws, it doesn't matter.

The other area where fans are misguided is this eternally hopeful mindset that a player is going to continue to improve, and that his deficiencies are going to disappear. Eventually players plateau, and you accept they are who they are. If players always got better and improved, you wouldn't see guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford and such peak at good-but-not-great players. I'm not saying Wilson is Joe Flacco-level, I'm just saying that all QBs have flaws, and often times they are just inherent to who a player is. No amount of coaching is going to make them magically disappear. Wilson is also 30 in a couple months. I'm not holding my breath that this guy is going to continue to improve as his speed and lightning-quick evasion starts to wane -- he needs that to compensate for his height.

For some fans, Wilson never gets the blame. It's always someone else's fault. It's his weapons. It's his line. It's Bevell. It's Schotty. It's Pete. You know, in spite of all of these external factors, there's one constant here... Wilson himself.

 

[Ozzy]

After they beat the Cowboys, the back tracking will be a blast. And yes, they are going to beat the Cowboys.

I hope you're right. They have to win that game. Have to.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Gonna' come home angry, hopefully get a couple guys back and play with some fire. I fully expect them to drive us crazy in the 1st half and decide to play in the 2nd half yet again. Because, you know, that's not maddening or anything :lol:

 

[Scorpion05]

2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.

Non-existent adjustment at the Line, staring down receivers, taking 2 quarters to warm up and become competent, failing to throw to open receivers in the middle, not letting the routes develop, risk averse at throwing in close windows, excessive Heroballing down the field...all this is year 7....yep these had nothing to do with the critiques people are levying on him...

Make up your mind. You want him to not hold onto the ball, yet you want him to rush his throws. You know he has weak protection but you attack him for it

Every NFL expert is analyzing that Wilson was given very little room for error. The little offesnse we did have was no huddle, and that’s when Wilson excelled. So no, he didn’t have 2 quarters to warm up, he simply took over. And if you read Chicago sports articles, Prince basically said he knew Russ would be rushed to throw and so he could risk jumping the route. That’s what happened

There’s a difference between objective debate and having an agenda. It’s clear that you didn’t come to debate what the game actually showed but to instead, place all the blame on Wilson

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate. .

It's a two way street, any hot commodity young dynamic OC doesn't want to play for a coach like Pete who meddles and has final say on situational playcalling.

Just ask Bevell who Pete overrode in the SB and called the pass play. So any new and upcoming OC sees that dynamic and is going to go elsewhere.........................voila, Brian Schottenheimer!

 

[TwistedHusky]

Largent, you are very likely correct.

I actually think that is why Bevell was not fired after the SB.

Pete at least has the ethics to not fire someone for something he did. Pretty clear to me that the one that called the terrible play that lost us the SB was Pete not Bevell. I was hoping that removing Bevell would remove the problem but it was a low % shot. I knew it was probably Pete.

Because Pete seems to have to run a lot of the offense through his lens first.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Until they change something, he could very well continue to be uncomfortable in there. We were sold a lie. There will be lots of changes, we will pound the rock, we will change things up to help Russ feel more confident etc.
None of these things have happened. You have one of the best QB's in the league WHEN YOU ALLOW HIM TO PLAY TO HIS STRENGHTS, yet you're not doing a thing to help him.