Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers

[mrt144]

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

Coaching is not everything. What coaching is is a convenient scapegoat to deflect blame from players. Players need to execute. If they don't execute, nothing else matters.

You're just cherry-picking examples. I can do that too. Everyone here hates Darrel Bevell. He is universally regarded as terrible (now I'm seeing -- predictably -- comments like, "Schotty is equal to, if not worse than Bevell"). I could say, "did you know that in 2009, Brett Favre put up arguably the best year of his career [33 TD, 7 INT, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 Y/A] under a Darrell Bevell offense?"

Or, you cite the 2016 Falcons. Yes, they were an offensive juggernaut. You're right. Matt Ryan had career highs in many categories, and had an explosive year overall (38 TD, 7 INT, 117.1 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A). Here's what you left out: Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator in 2015 too, and the Ryan and the Falcons were very pedestrian.
Ryan, 2015 (Kyle Shanahan): 21 TD, 16 INT, 89.0 passer rating, 7.4 Y/A (21.2 PPG - T21st in the NFL)
Ryan, 2017 (Steve Sarkisian): 20 TD, 12 INT, 91.4 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A (22.1 PPG - 15th in the NFL)

Alex Smith "broke out" in 2011, and transformed into a pretty good QB. This was under Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman, who -- like Pete et al. -- were regarded as dinosaurs that failed to evolve. Then, he got traded to Kansas City, and got to play underneath Andy Reid, a very creative offensive playcaller. Here's a comparison of his numbers:
Smith, 2011-2012 (SF, "old school" scheme): 64.3 CMP%, 4.5 TD%, 1.5%, 95.1 passer rating
Smith, 2013-2017 (KC, innovative mind in Andy Reid): 65.1 CMP%, 4.2 TD%, 1.4%, 94.8 passer rating

Andy Dalton had the best year of his career (25 TD, 7 INT, 106.3 passer rating) under Hue Jackson. Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick continued to look a lot like... Colin Kaepernick, even after being paired with one of the most creative offensive minds in Chip Kelly. I could go on and on.

I do believe that coaching and scheme matters. However, execution is equally as important. This is where fans start to lose objectivity. Any time a play, or drive, fails, they immediately blame the coaches. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if your quarterback is gunshy or starts abandoning clean pockets, it does not matter. Wilson is one of the hardest players in the league to coach because of how often he goes off-script. A scheme can get players open, but if your QB isn't making the reads or the throws, it doesn't matter.

The other area where fans are misguided is this eternally hopeful mindset that a player is going to continue to improve, and that his deficiencies are going to disappear. Eventually players plateau, and you accept they are who they are. If players always got better and improved, you wouldn't see guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford and such peak at good-but-not-great players. I'm not saying Wilson is Joe Flacco-level, I'm just saying that all QBs have flaws, and often times they are just inherent to who a player is. No amount of coaching is going to make them magically disappear. Wilson is also 30 in a couple months. I'm not holding my breath that this guy is going to continue to improve as his speed and lightning-quick evasion starts to wane -- he needs that to compensate for his height.

For some fans, Wilson never gets the blame. It's always someone else's fault. It's his weapons. It's his line. It's Bevell. It's Schotty. It's Pete. You know, in spite of all of these external factors, there's one constant here... Wilson himself.

Wilson deserves the blame for all of the obviously atrocious things he's doing. But...but...We've seen him play much better than THIS even while not being close to ideal and lacking a certain sharpness we crave. This isn't just a lack of sharpness, this is like mental lethargy and emotionless fatalism smashed into one.

The issue remains though, how do you get players to play better and simply execute - you coach them. And if you're at the point where you think players are uncoachable on the team, well, then that just isn't an average team or average coaching staff.

 

[NJlargent]

Largent, you are very likely correct.

I actually think that is why Bevell was not fired after the SB.

Pete at least has the ethics to not fire someone for something he did. Pretty clear to me that the one that called the terrible play that lost us the SB was Pete not Bevell. I was hoping that removing Bevell would remove the problem but it was a low % shot. I knew it was probably Pete.

Because Pete seems to have to run a lot of the offense through his lens first.

Largent is right. When you look objectively and reasonably at Carroll, the ship has sailed.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

mrt after the Hawks win on Sunday: "Russ is my boy!"

No wait, that would take actually admitting that he's pretty damn good.

 

[Seymour]

Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate. .

It's a two way street, any hot commodity young dynamic OC doesn't want to play for a coach like Pete who meddles and has final say on situational playcalling.

Just ask Bevell who Pete overrode in the SB and called the pass play. So any new and upcoming OC sees that dynamic and is going to go elsewhere.........................voila, Brian Schottenheimer!

2 for 2 this morning....agree!! :2thumbs:

+1,000,000,000

I would like to add also. This is why Pete could not fire Bevell after "the play". Pete told him to pass and he got what he asked for. Yes it was a stupid option up the middle, but it was a pass.

You fire the guy for doing what you asked him to do, and you lose the team and no coach of any stature will work for you again.

So...you could accurately say that Pete's meddling is the main cause for the downfall of the entire team.

 

[NJlargent]

Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate. .

It's a two way street, any hot commodity young dynamic OC doesn't want to play for a coach like Pete who meddles and has final say on situational playcalling.

Just ask Bevell who Pete overrode in the SB and called the pass play. So any new and upcoming OC sees that dynamic and is going to go elsewhere.........................voila, Brian Schottenheimer!

2 for 2 this morning....agree!! :2thumbs:

+1,000,000,000

I would like to add also. This is why Pete could not fire Bevell after "the play". Pete told him to pass and he got what he asked for. Yes it was a stupid option up the middle, but it was a pass.

You fire the guy for doing what you asked him to do, and you lose the team and no coach of any stature will work for you again.

So...you could accurately say that Pete's meddling is the main cause for the downfall of the entire team.

Unfortunately you don’t fire the guy for doing what you asked and you lose the team.

 

[mrt144]

mrt after the Hawks win on Sunday: "Russ is my boy!"

No wait, that would take actually admitting that he's pretty damn good.

Make no mistake - I am a huge fan of RW but he just doesn't look with it at the moment. I regularly carry water for him because I recognize he's an odd cat that has found success in spite of some limitations and people trying to diminish him based on how he doesn't fit in their schema. The fact I'm even calling this a slump should inform you that I'm holding out hope that this level of play is not a permanent fixture. On the other hand, I really don't know what can be done to help overcome this since by all indications, he has no help from his OC or HC on it. None.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They are trying to make him a QB he isn't. It's beyond stupid. There is NO O Line helping him out. They refuse to the run to ball to help him out. He's looking around for SOMEONE TO GET OPEN all the time.
How in the hell can he even be close to the QB we know he is when there is NOTHING comfortable around him.
And the play calling........you gotta' be kidding me.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

They are trying to make him a QB he isn't. It's beyond stupid. There is NO O Line helping him out. They refuse to the run to ball to help him out. He's looking around for SOMEONE TO GET OPEN all the time.
How in the hell can he even be close to the QB we know he is when there is NOTHING comfortable around him.
And the play calling........you gotta' be kidding me.

Then what do you do with a QB like Russell?

He's lost a step, can no longer get around the edge on read options or escape the pocket on the same consistent basis to make plays downfield.

So what does Pete do? He hires an OC and line coach to try and take the pressure off Russell with a more dynamic run game.......................THAT HE THEN ABANDONS AFTER THE FIRST QUARTER.

There's nothing wrong with Russell, it's his HC that's the problem. He's surrounded him with garbage talent, a garbage O-line and hamstrings the OC from the very first game creating the dumpster fire of an offense we've seen thus far.

Pete needs to just shut the hell up and let Schottenheimer and Russell do their jobs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly. Russ is in his prime, he has many good years left. They are wasting his talent by being stubborn.

 

[Seymour]

They are trying to make him a QB he isn't. It's beyond stupid. There is NO O Line helping him out. They refuse to the run to ball to help him out. He's looking around for SOMEONE TO GET OPEN all the time.
How in the hell can he even be close to the QB we know he is when there is NOTHING comfortable around him.
And the play calling........you gotta' be kidding me.

Then what do you do with a QB like Russell?

He's lost a step, can no longer get around the edge on read options or escape the pocket on the same consistent basis to make plays downfield.

So what does Pete do? He hires an OC and line coach to try and take the pressure off Russell with a more dynamic run game.......................THAT HE THEN ABANDONS AFTER THE FIRST QUARTER.

There's nothing wrong with Russell, it's his HC that's the problem. He's surrounded him with garbage talent, a garbage O-line and hamstrings the OC from the very first game creating the dumpster fire of an offense we've seen thus far.

Pete needs to just shut the hell up and let Schottenheimer and Russell do their jobs.

Wilson has not "lost a step"! :177692:

He is truely attempting to stay in the pocket longer and getting caught more doing that. Also defenses are doing a better job of boxing him in and taking away his escape routes.

Run the ball, bring the read option and rollout (not into Mack unblocked!!) back and make sure he takes a couple of early runs and things will begin to open back up.

Short passes that get the ball out and move the chains and far fewer down field shots that lead to 3 an outs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Def. has not lost a step. Not pounding the rock and making him stay in the pocket is like clapping with one hand. It's useless.

 

[Scorpion05]

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

Coaching is not everything. What coaching is is a convenient scapegoat to deflect blame from players. Players need to execute. If they don't execute, nothing else matters.

You're just cherry-picking examples. I can do that too. Everyone here hates Darrel Bevell. He is universally regarded as terrible (now I'm seeing -- predictably -- comments like, "Schotty is equal to, if not worse than Bevell"). I could say, "did you know that in 2009, Brett Favre put up arguably the best year of his career [33 TD, 7 INT, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 Y/A] under a Darrell Bevell offense?"

Or, you cite the 2016 Falcons. Yes, they were an offensive juggernaut. You're right. Matt Ryan had career highs in many categories, and had an explosive year overall (38 TD, 7 INT, 117.1 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A). Here's what you left out: Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator in 2015 too, and the Ryan and the Falcons were very pedestrian.
Ryan, 2015 (Kyle Shanahan): 21 TD, 16 INT, 89.0 passer rating, 7.4 Y/A (21.2 PPG - T21st in the NFL)
Ryan, 2017 (Steve Sarkisian): 20 TD, 12 INT, 91.4 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A (22.1 PPG - 15th in the NFL)

Alex Smith "broke out" in 2011, and transformed into a pretty good QB. This was under Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman, who -- like Pete et al. -- were regarded as dinosaurs that failed to evolve. Then, he got traded to Kansas City, and got to play underneath Andy Reid, a very creative offensive playcaller. Here's a comparison of his numbers:
Smith, 2011-2012 (SF, "old school" scheme): 64.3 CMP%, 4.5 TD%, 1.5%, 95.1 passer rating
Smith, 2013-2017 (KC, innovative mind in Andy Reid): 65.1 CMP%, 4.2 TD%, 1.4%, 94.8 passer rating

Andy Dalton had the best year of his career (25 TD, 7 INT, 106.3 passer rating) under Hue Jackson. Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick continued to look a lot like... Colin Kaepernick, even after being paired with one of the most creative offensive minds in Chip Kelly. I could go on and on.

I do believe that coaching and scheme matters. However, execution is equally as important. This is where fans start to lose objectivity. Any time a play, or drive, fails, they immediately blame the coaches. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if your quarterback is gunshy or starts abandoning clean pockets, it does not matter. Wilson is one of the hardest players in the league to coach because of how often he goes off-script. A scheme can get players open, but if your QB isn't making the reads or the throws, it doesn't matter.

The other area where fans are misguided is this eternally hopeful mindset that a player is going to continue to improve, and that his deficiencies are going to disappear. Eventually players plateau, and you accept they are who they are. If players always got better and improved, you wouldn't see guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford and such peak at good-but-not-great players. I'm not saying Wilson is Joe Flacco-level, I'm just saying that all QBs have flaws, and often times they are just inherent to who a player is. No amount of coaching is going to make them magically disappear. Wilson is also 30 in a couple months. I'm not holding my breath that this guy is going to continue to improve as his speed and lightning-quick evasion starts to wane -- he needs that to compensate for his height.

For some fans, Wilson never gets the blame. It's always someone else's fault. It's his weapons. It's his line. It's Bevell. It's Schotty. It's Pete. You know, in spite of all of these external factors, there's one constant here... Wilson himself.

Wow, at least try to hide your agenda

Saying a coach is only a scapegoat is a low football knowledge sentiment to express. Coaches matter, players matter. The discussion is who's to blame more. Most NFL experts are saying that Russell, who is better than Goff and Trubitsky, is not being given a lot to work with. Your counter points are even weaker

Chip Kelly's "innovative offense" only succeeded for one year. It failed...which is why he was fired from both the Eagles AND the Niners. Kaepernick is not great, but neither is Case Keenum or several other bottom tier QBs. A better coach would have gotten more out of him.

With the Niners, Mike Singletary got blamed for Alex Smith's failures. Smith basically looked like Geno Smith for years..actually worse. Jim Harbaugh came in and every NFL analyst praised the fact that because Harbaugh himself was a QB, he was able to get more out of Smith. Alex Smith did a COMPLETE 180 and played like a competent QB. Ditto for his time with Andy Reid. And by the way, Andy Reid has gotten the best out of every QB he's worked with.

So, so far your Harbaugh/Andy Reid comparison didn't make sense given Mike Singletary, and your Chip Kelly point didn't make sense. What's next?

Hue Jackson? He's a really good offensive mind who got the best out of Andy Dalton. I would love it if he was Wilson's Offensive Coordinator. Kyle Shanahan? He had some success with RG3, and he had success with Matt Ryan. He doesn't have a long history of failure like Schotty. Also, in 2015, the offense wasn't "terrible." They started out 5-0. Oh, and it was Dan Quinn's FIRST year as head coach They were still working out kinks, still working on the defense, which kept struggling. And still figuring out the running game. Poor comparison

Brett Favre is Brett Favre. He had Adrian Peterson in his prime, and guess who else? Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn....Brad Childress. Who came from under the Andy Reid tree. Bevell was running Childress' system, the same system they ran in Philly with McNabb. Know your football history bud. Bevell had ONE good year in a system that wasn't really his, and one with Russell. Shanahan, McVay, and others have had more successful seasons with less time and arguably less talented Quarterbacks

Execution matters but not if that coach is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Coaches get fired for a reason. The film doesn't lie, so instead of simply itching to blame Russell at all costs, try being objective. Russ deserves some blame, but he's not being given much margin for error. He's expected to save everything, pressure in his face and coverage downfield be damned. By any objective metric, the film shows that Bevell and Schotty are failures. And they've NEVER had a consistent track record of success

 

[mrt144]

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

Coaching is not everything. What coaching is is a convenient scapegoat to deflect blame from players. Players need to execute. If they don't execute, nothing else matters.

You're just cherry-picking examples. I can do that too. Everyone here hates Darrel Bevell. He is universally regarded as terrible (now I'm seeing -- predictably -- comments like, "Schotty is equal to, if not worse than Bevell"). I could say, "did you know that in 2009, Brett Favre put up arguably the best year of his career [33 TD, 7 INT, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 Y/A] under a Darrell Bevell offense?"

Or, you cite the 2016 Falcons. Yes, they were an offensive juggernaut. You're right. Matt Ryan had career highs in many categories, and had an explosive year overall (38 TD, 7 INT, 117.1 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A). Here's what you left out: Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator in 2015 too, and the Ryan and the Falcons were very pedestrian.
Ryan, 2015 (Kyle Shanahan): 21 TD, 16 INT, 89.0 passer rating, 7.4 Y/A (21.2 PPG - T21st in the NFL)
Ryan, 2017 (Steve Sarkisian): 20 TD, 12 INT, 91.4 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A (22.1 PPG - 15th in the NFL)

Alex Smith "broke out" in 2011, and transformed into a pretty good QB. This was under Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman, who -- like Pete et al. -- were regarded as dinosaurs that failed to evolve. Then, he got traded to Kansas City, and got to play underneath Andy Reid, a very creative offensive playcaller. Here's a comparison of his numbers:
Smith, 2011-2012 (SF, "old school" scheme): 64.3 CMP%, 4.5 TD%, 1.5%, 95.1 passer rating
Smith, 2013-2017 (KC, innovative mind in Andy Reid): 65.1 CMP%, 4.2 TD%, 1.4%, 94.8 passer rating

Andy Dalton had the best year of his career (25 TD, 7 INT, 106.3 passer rating) under Hue Jackson. Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick continued to look a lot like... Colin Kaepernick, even after being paired with one of the most creative offensive minds in Chip Kelly. I could go on and on.

I do believe that coaching and scheme matters. However, execution is equally as important. This is where fans start to lose objectivity. Any time a play, or drive, fails, they immediately blame the coaches. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if your quarterback is gunshy or starts abandoning clean pockets, it does not matter. Wilson is one of the hardest players in the league to coach because of how often he goes off-script. A scheme can get players open, but if your QB isn't making the reads or the throws, it doesn't matter.

The other area where fans are misguided is this eternally hopeful mindset that a player is going to continue to improve, and that his deficiencies are going to disappear. Eventually players plateau, and you accept they are who they are. If players always got better and improved, you wouldn't see guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford and such peak at good-but-not-great players. I'm not saying Wilson is Joe Flacco-level, I'm just saying that all QBs have flaws, and often times they are just inherent to who a player is. No amount of coaching is going to make them magically disappear. Wilson is also 30 in a couple months. I'm not holding my breath that this guy is going to continue to improve as his speed and lightning-quick evasion starts to wane -- he needs that to compensate for his height.

For some fans, Wilson never gets the blame. It's always someone else's fault. It's his weapons. It's his line. It's Bevell. It's Schotty. It's Pete. You know, in spite of all of these external factors, there's one constant here... Wilson himself.

Wow, at least try to hide your agenda

Saying a coach is only a scapegoat is a low football knowledge sentiment to express. Coaches matter, players matter. The discussion is who's to blame more. Most NFL experts are saying that Russell, who is better than Goff and Trubitsky, is not being given a lot to work with. Your counter points are even weaker

Chip Kelly's "innovative offense" only succeeded for one year. It failed...which is why he was fired from both the Eagles AND the Niners. Kaepernick is not great, but neither is Case Keenum or several other bottom tier QBs. A better coach would have gotten more out of him.

With the Niners, Mike Singletary got blamed for Alex Smith's failures. Smith basically looked like Geno Smith for years..actually worse. Jim Harbaugh came in and every NFL analyst praised the fact that because Harbaugh himself was a QB, he was able to get more out of Smith. Alex Smith did a COMPLETE 180 and played like a competent QB. Ditto for his time with Andy Reid. And by the way, Andy Reid has gotten the best out of every QB he's worked with.

So, so far your Harbaugh/Andy Reid comparison didn't make sense given Mike Singletary, and your Chip Kelly point didn't make sense. What's next?

Hue Jackson? He's a really good offensive mind who got the best out of Andy Dalton. I would love it if he was Wilson's Offensive Coordinator. Kyle Shanahan? He had some success with RG3, and he had success with Matt Ryan. He doesn't have a long history of failure like Schotty. Also, in 2015, the offense wasn't "terrible." They started out 5-0. Oh, and it was Dan Quinn's FIRST year as head coach They were still working out kinks, still working on the defense, which kept struggling. And still figuring out the running game. Poor comparison

Brett Favre is Brett Favre. He had Adrian Peterson in his prime, and guess who else? Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn....Brad Childress. Who came from under the Andy Reid tree. Bevell was running Childress' system, the same system they ran in Philly with McNabb. Know your football history bud. Bevell had ONE good year in a system that wasn't really his, and one with Russell. Shanahan, McVay, and others have had more successful seasons with less time and arguably less talented Quarterbacks

Execution matters but not if that coach is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Coaches get fired for a reason. The film doesn't lie, so instead of simply itching to blame Russell at all costs, try being objective. Russ deserves some blame, but he's not being given much margin for error. He's expected to save everything, pressure in his face and coverage downfield be damned. By any objective metric, the film shows that Bevell and Schotty are failures. And they've NEVER had a consistent track record of success

To JimmyG, I bet it makes more sense to him that Matt Ryan is bigger problem and always has been for the Falcons offense than also ran Steve Sarkesian becoming OC there.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Def. has not lost a step. Not pounding the rock and making him stay in the pocket is like clapping with one hand. It's useless.

I see a lost step.

Wilson is not escaping the pocket or eluding defenders with the frequency he used to. He's just not.

What happened to the read option? What happened to the scripted Russell run plays? I'll tell you, they won't work anymore...................because...............wait for it..............he's lost a step.

I mean, hell just call a couple read options per half if for nothing else to keep edge rushers like Mack and Miller honest with their containment assignments.

 

[adeltaY]

Def. has not lost a step. Not pounding the rock and making him stay in the pocket is like clapping with one hand. It's useless.

I see a lost step.

Wilson is not escaping the pocket or eluding defenders with the frequency he used to. He's just not.

What happened to the read option? What happened to the scripted Russell run plays? I'll tell you, they won't work anymore...................because...............wait for it..............he's lost a step.

I mean, hell just call a couple read options per half if for nothing else to keep edge rushers like Mack and Miller honest with their containment assignments.

They aren't calling those plays. It's not Wilson's fault. Do you think Wilson is a worse athlete at this point than Alex Smith (who is very athletic, yes)? Because they were running all those plays with Smith last year in KC.

 

[mrt144]

Def. has not lost a step. Not pounding the rock and making him stay in the pocket is like clapping with one hand. It's useless.

I see a lost step.

Wilson is not escaping the pocket or eluding defenders with the frequency he used to. He's just not.

What happened to the read option? What happened to the scripted Russell run plays? I'll tell you, they won't work anymore...................because...............wait for it..............he's lost a step.

I mean, hell just call a couple read options per half if for nothing else to keep edge rushers like Mack and Miller honest with their containment assignments.

And yet I've seen Alex Smith under Reid's offense...run the damn ball on a designed QB run play. Edit: Thank you ADeltaY!

I mean...

If you don't think RW can do it at all, fine, then don't call the play. Ever. But don't tell me RW can't do it because he is physically incapable of doing anything positive on it. The highest highs in value outcomes might not be there but we're just seeing the most insipid reactions here.

And to me, I think a huge part of it is mental. RW is resisting his urge to just do the damn thing and take off. That makes him a good puppy who still craps on the carpet.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Def. has not lost a step. Not pounding the rock and making him stay in the pocket is like clapping with one hand. It's useless.

I see a lost step.

Wilson is not escaping the pocket or eluding defenders with the frequency he used to. He's just not.

What happened to the read option? What happened to the scripted Russell run plays? I'll tell you, they won't work anymore...................because...............wait for it..............he's lost a step.

I mean, hell just call a couple read options per half if for nothing else to keep edge rushers like Mack and Miller honest with their containment assignments.

They aren't calling those plays. It's not Wilson's fault. Do you think Wilson is a worse athlete at this point than Alex Smith (who is very athletic, yes)? Because they were running all those plays with Smith last year in KC.

I just said I think we still need to try designed Russell run plays, either read options, RPO's or designed draws.

But I was disputing Soulfish and others who think Russell is still as fast and quick as he used to be. Because so far this year, I haven't seen the same burst out of the pocket or the eluding of defenders that we're used to seeing out of Russell.

 

[adeltaY]

I see a lost step.

Wilson is not escaping the pocket or eluding defenders with the frequency he used to. He's just not.

What happened to the read option? What happened to the scripted Russell run plays? I'll tell you, they won't work anymore...................because...............wait for it..............he's lost a step.

I mean, hell just call a couple read options per half if for nothing else to keep edge rushers like Mack and Miller honest with their containment assignments.

Wait, you said those plays won't work because he lost a step? Am I misreading your post?

 

[Seymour]

Def. has not lost a step. Not pounding the rock and making him stay in the pocket is like clapping with one hand. It's useless.

I see a lost step.

Wilson is not escaping the pocket or eluding defenders with the frequency he used to. He's just not.

What happened to the read option? What happened to the scripted Russell run plays? I'll tell you, they won't work anymore...................because...............wait for it..............he's lost a step.

I mean, hell just call a couple read options per half if for nothing else to keep edge rushers like Mack and Miller honest with their containment assignments.

Of course he isn't!!!

Can you see the look on his face of frustration???

He's been ordered to stay in the pocket longer, and he is and it's not working!!...he's getting crushed trying. :roll:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They are trying to make him do something they shouldn't, it makes absolutely no sense. Stay in the pocket where there is no blocking or separation by the receivers. Yeah, that makes sense.
Shotty and his play calling has been as bad or worse than Bevell. Yes, I said that. ukeface: