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Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident

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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:McDowell isn't going to make this draft. That'll fall to Pocic and Griffin. Mostly Pocic in my opinion.


    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush
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  • Smellyman wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:McDowell isn't going to make this draft. That'll fall to Pocic and Griffin. Mostly Pocic in my opinion.


    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush


    He was a lot of Tackle in College. Sacks aren't the stat you look at for Tackles
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:McDowell isn't going to make this draft. That'll fall to Pocic and Griffin. Mostly Pocic in my opinion.


    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush


    He was a lot of Tackle in College. Sacks aren't the stat you look at for Tackles


    Just refuting he could be an answer to a pass rush.

    He wasn't very good in college, is a knucklehead. The top 5 talent rhetoric drives my nuts. Maybe. He never proved it.
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  • Smellyman wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush


    He was a lot of Tackle in College. Sacks aren't the stat you look at for Tackles


    Just refuting he could be an answer to a pass rush.

    He wasn't very good in college, is a knucklehead. The top 5 talent rhetoric drives my nuts. Maybe. He never proved it.


    But he was very good in college projected by many as a 1st round selection. He was 2nd all team American. His only real knock was that he may be immature and took plays off. His talent isn't his question mark.
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:McDowell isn't going to make this draft. That'll fall to Pocic and Griffin. Mostly Pocic in my opinion.


    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush


    He was a lot of Tackle in College. Sacks aren't the stat you look at for Tackles


    If they're there you sure look at them!

    But I know what you mean, many tackles, especial nose tackles, are hard to measure with stats ... unless you're looking at linebacker stats with and without them in the lineup.
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  • Chapow wrote:^^^ You know they make smaller ones for kids, right? :D


    Of course, but they are always looking for an opportunity to to ride dad's. We'll be going for a week of riding and hiking next week (excuse for dad to scout elk), and I'm sure they will be asking to ride the big machine all week.
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  • From the Schneider interview........


    "hopefully he gets better in the near future"
    “We just want him to just get right and it’s going to be a process,”
    "It’s not something that’s going to happen over night.”"

    If you expect him to play this year then I would call you a very optimistic person.
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  • Smellyman wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:McDowell isn't going to make this draft. That'll fall to Pocic and Griffin. Mostly Pocic in my opinion.


    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush

    He was double teamed almost every snap and sometimes triple teamed.

    His talent was/is never a question, it's his attitude because he took several plays off.
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  • To us "old timers" the Hawks coaching staff has to sift through a lot of "snowflakes and marshmallows" to find men who want to get serious about life at age 22. It wasn't that way when I was in college....guaranteed!
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  • Bigpumpkin wrote:To us "old timers" the Hawks coaching staff has to sift through a lot of "snowflakes and marshmallows" to find men who want to get serious about life at age 22. It wasn't that way when I was in college....guaranteed!


    LOL
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  • I'll give him 16 games (incl. pre season--16 weeks) to get his face together. Then he better be ready to contribute the last 4 and playoffs and I for one would give him the pass.
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    But he was very good in college projected by many as a 1st round selection. He was 2nd all team American. His only real knock was that he may be immature and took plays off. His talent isn't his question mark.


    I think we have confirmation on the immature part.
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  • Its crazy to me that people throw the label "immature" on a guy for riding an ATV. I guess all those critical have never hurt themselves through sports or active fun. He is young and strong. Probably has more money in his life than ever before. I for one am glad he was having fun (not everyone can be Earl Thomas and live in a closet intensely studying football 24/7 until game time). I am not glad of the result but he is only human. People are so quick to judge this guy. Maybe he is immature but IMHO this accident is not necessarily a sign of that. I don't know. Lets just all hope he gets well soon and comes back to light things up for the Hawks.
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  • Year of The Hawk wrote:Its crazy to me that people throw the label "immature" on a guy for riding an ATV. I guess all those critical have never hurt themselves through sports or active fun. He is young and strong. Probably has more money in his life than ever before. I for one am glad he was having fun (not everyone can be Earl Thomas and live in a closet intensely studying football 24/7 until game time). I am not glad of the result but he is only human. People are so quick to judge this guy. Maybe he is immature but IMHO this accident is not necessarily a sign of that. I don't know. Lets just all hope he gets well soon and comes back to light things up for the Hawks.


    We all have gotten dinged having fun. But the real fair comparison question would be....how many of us have done this (or would do this) after JUST signing a $7 million new job contract in which our bodies condition is the critical key to our employment?

    That is where the impact of the level of irresponsibility weighs in, these are dream jobs to the average Joe.
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  • Year of The Hawk wrote:Its crazy to me that people throw the label "immature" on a guy for riding an ATV. I guess all those critical have never hurt themselves through sports or active fun. He is young and strong. Probably has more money in his life than ever before. I for one am glad he was having fun (not everyone can be Earl Thomas and live in a closet intensely studying football 24/7 until game time). I am not glad of the result but he is only human. People are so quick to judge this guy. Maybe he is immature but IMHO this accident is not necessarily a sign of that. I don't know. Lets just all hope he gets well soon and comes back to light things up for the Hawks.


    Its downright idiotic to do what he did..he is lucky hes a Seahawk, most teams would take all his money away and probably cut him first chance they get
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  • quadsas wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:Its crazy to me that people throw the label "immature" on a guy for riding an ATV. I guess all those critical have never hurt themselves through sports or active fun. He is young and strong. Probably has more money in his life than ever before. I for one am glad he was having fun (not everyone can be Earl Thomas and live in a closet intensely studying football 24/7 until game time). I am not glad of the result but he is only human. People are so quick to judge this guy. Maybe he is immature but IMHO this accident is not necessarily a sign of that. I don't know. Lets just all hope he gets well soon and comes back to light things up for the Hawks.


    Its downright idiotic to do what he did..he is lucky hes a Seahawk, most teams would take all his money away and probably cut him first chance they get


    I am pretty sure nobody can do that. His $3.2M signing bonus is now his to keep no matter what the team decides.
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  • I know a lot on this board talk about his facial injuries however I believe it's his brain that is the real problem here. Pure speculation but he may be looking at permanent brain damage. Yes he has a concussion but I think there is much more to this then we know or think we know.

    Again speculation here but this really may be a career ender.
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  • Smellyman wrote:The top 5 talent rhetoric drives my nuts.
    :escape:

    ... Not sure we wanted to know what does that, but okay. :mrgreen:
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  • GeekHawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:The top 5 talent rhetoric drives my nuts.
    :escape:

    ... Not sure we wanted to know what does that, but okay. :mrgreen:


    :lol:
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Re: Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:02 am
  • As a fan my loyalty to players is conditional on them helping the winning. What mild loyalty I do develop doesn't occur until some serious production takes place.
    Thus I feel no impulse to see things from McDowell's side. He blew it. Very serious NFI is pretty rare which tells me most of these 20 year olds manage their risk off the field just fine. McDowell is either stupid, a god-awful ATV rider or cursed by the gods, I care not which.
    I do think most 20 year olds would be smart enough to wait until a few million piled up but NFL players are at the high end of the pampered spectrum and the low end of the brains spectrum for 20 year olds.

    If Malik had wowed me for a few years I'd feel less disgusted with him. Marshawn's DUI was every bit as stupid and probably more since it was more likely to harm someone else. But Malik is no one to me so my disdain flows unchecked.
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Re: Malik McDowell in
Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:54 am
  • hawk45 wrote:As a fan my loyalty to players is conditional on them helping the winning. What mild loyalty I do develop doesn't occur until some serious production takes place.
    Thus I feel no impulse to see things from McDowell's side. He blew it. Very serious NFI is pretty rare which tells me most of these 20 year olds manage their risk off the field just fine. McDowell is either stupid, a god-awful ATV rider or cursed by the gods, I care not which.
    I do think most 20 year olds would be smart enough to wait until a few million piled up but NFL players are at the high end of the pampered spectrum and the low end of the brains spectrum for 20 year olds.

    If Malik had wowed me for a few years I'd feel less disgusted with him. Marshawn's DUI was every bit as stupid and probably more since it was more likely to harm someone else. But Malik is no one to me so my disdain flows unchecked.


    I agree. I started flying jets at age 23. At the beginning of our training, we were told which medicines we could take, which extracurricular activities we could do, what our sleep cycle would be, among other things. I took this information seriously and I tailored my activities accordingly.

    To train an F-16 pilot costs roughly $7 million. In my flying career I've racked up more than $22,000,000 in flight time ($20,000 a flight hour x 1,100 F-16 hours).

    When you are involved in a high risk/high reward sport or profession, you have to recognize that the difference between being a player and riding the proverbial bench is often a conscious choice.
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Re: Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident
Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:14 pm
  • With the uncertainty regarding McDowell, I wonder with the trade talks for Sheldon Richardson will heat up again. It sounded like the Seahawks were interested in acquiring him earlier.
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  • seabowl wrote:I know a lot on this board talk about his facial injuries however I believe it's his brain that is the real problem here. Pure speculation but he may be looking at permanent brain damage. Yes he has a concussion but I think there is much more to this then we know or think we know.

    Again speculation here but this really may be a career ender.



    Did I read somewhere in here, that his family is asking for privacy?

    If so, some type of permanent injury is becoming a stronger possibility.

    IMO
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  • Seymour wrote:
    quadsas wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:Its crazy to me that people throw the label "immature" on a guy for riding an ATV. I guess all those critical have never hurt themselves through sports or active fun. He is young and strong. Probably has more money in his life than ever before. I for one am glad he was having fun (not everyone can be Earl Thomas and live in a closet intensely studying football 24/7 until game time). I am not glad of the result but he is only human. People are so quick to judge this guy. Maybe he is immature but IMHO this accident is not necessarily a sign of that. I don't know. Lets just all hope he gets well soon and comes back to light things up for the Hawks.


    Its downright idiotic to do what he did..he is lucky hes a Seahawk, most teams would take all his money away and probably cut him first chance they get


    I am pretty sure nobody can do that. His $3.2M signing bonus is now his to keep no matter what the team decides.


    Not correct. There is a high chance money flows back to Seattle. This was a non-football injury. It will depend on contract language etc but standard NFL contract language would give the team right to void his contract with refund. I don't know all the details of the process but as I understand it putting him on NFI list provides time to work this out so there is no reason to rush. Better to then take time, figure out long term and then take action.

    As mentioned above the Seahawks have gotten nothing from him. This is not like letting Lynch retire with signing bonus. This guy directly NEGATIVELY impacted the organization with a wasted pick if he can't play. They will get their money back if they can.

    Reminds me of Jay Williams ruining his career on a motorcycle (or rather off a motorcycle....)
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  • mikeak wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    quadsas wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:Its crazy to me that people throw the label "immature" on a guy for riding an ATV. I guess all those critical have never hurt themselves through sports or active fun. He is young and strong. Probably has more money in his life than ever before. I for one am glad he was having fun (not everyone can be Earl Thomas and live in a closet intensely studying football 24/7 until game time). I am not glad of the result but he is only human. People are so quick to judge this guy. Maybe he is immature but IMHO this accident is not necessarily a sign of that. I don't know. Lets just all hope he gets well soon and comes back to light things up for the Hawks.


    Its downright idiotic to do what he did..he is lucky hes a Seahawk, most teams would take all his money away and probably cut him first chance they get


    I am pretty sure nobody can do that. His $3.2M signing bonus is now his to keep no matter what the team decides.


    Not correct. There is a high chance money flows back to Seattle. This was a non-football injury. It will depend on contract language etc but standard NFL contract language would give the team right to void his contract with refund. I don't know all the details of the process but as I understand it putting him on NFI list provides time to work this out so there is no reason to rush. Better to then take time, figure out long term and then take action.

    As mentioned above the Seahawks have gotten nothing from him. This is not like letting Lynch retire with signing bonus. This guy directly NEGATIVELY impacted the organization with a wasted pick if he can't play. They will get their money back if they can.

    Reminds me of Jay Williams ruining his career on a motorcycle (or rather off a motorcycle....)


    Yes they can void his contract, but he has a signing bonus. That is his just for signing the contract. They can go after his annual salary, yes. I heard this discussion on ESPN a few days ago and that is exactly what they said.
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  • I am going to wait and see how it plays out. We don't know if part of it was deferred or the contract language. Remember if he VIOLATED the contract then Seattle would have a legal claim for a refund. The signing bonus was paid for anticipated work that he may have voided.

    Furthermore teams often defers 25% to March and they may simply refuse to pay it.

    Hopefully we never find out (either way ESPN frequently speculates on this. Many times I hear them be wrong on contract details) and the kid has a great career with seattle.
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  • bigskydoc wrote:Yes, withheld pay goes back into the salary cap


    And BTW, my son laughs at those of you saying that ATV riding is too risky for a grown man to do in the offseason.

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  • If I catch him riding either the ATVs or his bike without a helmet, he loses both for 30 days.

    He never forgets to put it on
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  • Hawkfish wrote:


    Gotta be seen as a good thing.
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  • There has been a sighting at the airport gift shop!

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  • Seymour wrote:
    Yes they can void his contract, but he has a signing bonus. That is his just for signing the contract. They can go after his annual salary, yes. I heard this discussion on ESPN a few days ago and that is exactly what they said.


    This just isn't as absolute as they want you to believe. Players may want it to be true, but when you sign that contract and take that money, you are agreeing to the terms of that contract. If you breach that contract, damages could include every penny payed and legally speaking, depending on the damages of a legal contract, go beyond the amounts stated within the contract. I believe you'd be hard pressed to prove damages beyond the value of an NFL contract though, so that's unrealistic, but to have to pay back parts of a signing bonus are not unheard of in the NFL. We don't know the exact terms of the contract, so we, and everyone at ESPN are just speculating.
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Re: Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:35 am
  • Hawkfish wrote:

    Really hope he gets to play this season. I believe he can make a huge impact on the defense.
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Re: Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident
Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:36 pm
  • RussB wrote:
    Hawkfish wrote:

    Really hope he gets to play this season. I believe he can make a huge impact on the defense.

    Plot thickens....Rams look like they may be trouble it'd be nice to have him.
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  • Foghawk wrote:Face looks ok in this recent picture?

    :hmmmm:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BX-_l1hDkWi/


    Something going on over the top of left eye? But looks better than anyone would have thought.
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  • Well, before they drive off, I hope he puts his seatbelt on. :)
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  • Still betting he either has orbital damage with visual deficit, or intracranial hematoma. Only things I can think of that makes sense.
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Yes they can void his contract, but he has a signing bonus. That is his just for signing the contract. They can go after his annual salary, yes. I heard this discussion on ESPN a few days ago and that is exactly what they said.


    This just isn't as absolute as they want you to believe. Players may want it to be true, but when you sign that contract and take that money, you are agreeing to the terms of that contract. If you breach that contract, damages could include every penny payed and legally speaking, depending on the damages of a legal contract, go beyond the amounts stated within the contract. I believe you'd be hard pressed to prove damages beyond the value of an NFL contract though, so that's unrealistic, but to have to pay back parts of a signing bonus are not unheard of in the NFL. We don't know the exact terms of the contract, so we, and everyone at ESPN are just speculating.


    I would think this would be no different than a player who retires and the team may or may not decide to go back for some of the bonus money.
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  • bigskydoc wrote:Still betting he either has orbital damage with visual deficit, or intracranial hematoma. Only things I can think of that makes sense.


    I'd say that you're right. Would worry about orbital fx w palsy....
    Prayers for him
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  • He has certainly showed flashes of talent. He hasn't shown consistency or strong work ethic. He has red flags, yellow flags, and green flags. He has the talent and potential to contribute great things but even if he was healthy he lacks the drive. Not a terrible guy by any means but he will never put the team's interests ahead of his own. The Hawks can do great things as a team but since the super owl they have become mostly a collection of squawking individuals instead. Even healthy I don't see this guy helping to correct that dynamic. Hope he proves me wrong though.
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    brimsalabim
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Re: Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident
Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:04 pm
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    Hawkfish
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  • There is a tremendous amount of speculation here about the injury (injuries), the consequences (both physical and financially) to Malik, or the team good and bad. Unfortunately it's all speculation.

    While this is discussion board, at some point we need to have facts. What we know for sure is Malik hurt himself riding an ATV which was apparently a breach of his contract. It was a serious head injury, what injury we don't know but it likely was serious enough to end his season. The team thinks that is so, and sent him home to recover there. Beyond that we don't know much more.

    There are now 7 pages of speculation about the player's immaturity, the end of his career, or not, how bad the pick was, how much he will keep of his SB, or whether the team will punish the breach, or not. Why don't we wait until more is known?

    Yep, it's frustrating to not know or have the player in camp, but we just don't know. However, speculative BS is just that, and nothing more.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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    jammerhawk
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  • Why doesn't he just come clean on the accident and injury since it's up him to disclose? Whats with the secret I hurt my face game that everyone one day will know what happened anyway? :roll:
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    Seymour
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  • Seymour wrote:Why doesn't he just come clean on the accident and injury since it's up him to disclose? Whats with the secret I hurt my face game that everyone one day will know what happened anyway? :roll:


    I'm quite sure that his agent and lawyers have told him to "clam up".
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    Bigpumpkin
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  • Frankly agree.

    The secrecy here is on McDowell and not the team. The team is not legally able to tell the story and McDowell has control, but doesn't want to tell what happened or what his actual injury is or how long he will take to be better. Why,? Maybe his agent has told him the team can pull his signing bonus and has breached his contract, or he knows the injury is more serious than he initially.thought. I'm sure there may be other reasons too. Sadly this leads to these lengthy highly speculative lengthy threads.

    Each of us has our views, and often disagree; and it remains for each of us to decide whether some of the speculative comments are patent nonsense.

    McDowell knows the truth but isn't saying. We are beating our gums until he talks.

    Sucks he's injured, sucks we don't know WTF, is actually going on. I do think his injury hurts the team and wish he wasn't hurt.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Malik McDowell in "vehicular" accident
Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:54 pm
  • Smellyman wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    I'd have to disagree. The loss of McDowell is probably going to be a bigger blow than everyone thought. Pass rush has always been the burr in our shoe whenever we've reached the playoffs, and our DL is quietly becoming less good. Either aging (Avril and Bennett, sharp drop in production in the latter half of last year), injury-prone (Jefferson), untested (Jones), or merely decent at pass rush (Rubin, Marsh, Reed), our only bright spot moving forward is Frank Clark. We are going to need new DL talent.


    We'd have to know if he was any good first. He wasn't great in college.

    He had 1.5, 4.5 and 1.5 sacks in college. Not exactly the answer to pass rush


    He was a lot of Tackle in College. Sacks aren't the stat you look at for Tackles


    Just refuting he could be an answer to a pass rush.

    He wasn't very good in college, is a knucklehead. The top 5 talent rhetoric drives my nuts. Maybe. He never proved it.

    He drove your nuts? That seems uncomfortable. <....….>;)
    Josea16
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