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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am 
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Trade Flynn for Tebow, then turn to JAX and trade Tebow to Jax for 1st rounders for the next 10 years.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:58 am 
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I am reasonably convinced that Flynn will be gone from Seattle some time next off season. First, he is disgruntled with his role. No, I don't have a source, but it is just plain to see. Second, his salary will be a vital part of extending some of the players from our first Pete and John draft. Third, the Raiders staff has ties to Flynn, and Palmer has crapped the bed in Oakland, leaving a nice trade partner in desperate straights. There are other teams too that will not be able to fill team needs in the draft, but for a variety of reasons did not pursue Flynn last year. Buffalo was dollar tied to Fitz, the Cards were hot for Peyton and also dollar tied to Kolb, with a hot prospect at backup, Minnesota and the Jags were still all in on rookies.

There will be plenty of suitors for Flynn, which is where his real market value will come from. A second would not surprise me at all. Especially since we already ate most of his signing bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:34 am 
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What's the more important question is... what is Flynn's current value to the Seahawks

IMO, he is a very good insurance policy for which you've essentially already paid most of the premiums.

The Hawks will/should keep him until they have a better alternative.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:41 am 
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onanygivensunday wrote:
What's the more important question is... what is Flynn's current value to the Seahawks

IMO, he is a very good insurance policy for which you've essentially already paid most of the premiums.

The Hawks will/should keep him until they have a better alternative.


When you have your Manning....backup is meaningless. Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...... yup..their backups don't see the field. Our's will not see the field. Spend that money on securing guys we have that actually see the field.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:49 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am reasonably convinced that Flynn will be gone from Seattle some time next off season. First, he is disgruntled with his role. No, I don't have a source, but it is just plain to see. Second, his salary will be a vital part of extending some of the players from our first Pete and John draft. Third, the Raiders staff has ties to Flynn, and Palmer has crapped the bed in Oakland, leaving a nice trade partner in desperate straights. There are other teams too that will not be able to fill team needs in the draft, but for a variety of reasons did not pursue Flynn last year. Buffalo was dollar tied to Fitz, the Cards were hot for Peyton and also dollar tied to Kolb, with a hot prospect at backup, Minnesota and the Jags were still all in on rookies.

There will be plenty of suitors for Flynn, which is where his real market value will come from. A second would not surprise me at all. Especially since we already ate most of his signing bonus.


There is a difference between disgruntled and disappointed.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:32 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
When you have your Manning....backup is meaningless. Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...... yup..their backups don't see the field. Our's will not see the field. Spend that money on securing guys we have that actually see the field.


Lets think a bit more about this one

Brady went down for a season. They had a guy on the bench that had been there for a few years. Cassell played good for the team to the point where many said Brady was a result of the system. I think more having a backup in the same system paid off and they coached well during that year. They then got plenty out of trading Cassell

Now lets look at Indy - playoff, playoff, playoff, superbowl, playoff, playoff or something like that - Manning goes down and they have no backup result worst team in the league!!!!

What other examples - Big Ben motorcycle crash and I think out for a few other reasons that year. Miss playoff. Bears last year Cutler goes down they were a lock for playoffs but missed playoffs because of a bad bench

Rodgers is partially a result of getting to sit on the bench as a backup

So if your point was that even good / great qb's need a competent backup so you don't throw away a season then I see the point thanks for the great examples :). The team as a whole is still not spending much money on the qb position. You need to keep Flynn OR trade him for a 1st or 2nd rounder and then use that pick / a lower pick for a rookie qb (low salary).

I guess the other option is picking up Vick for cheap :D


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:49 am 
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It never hurts to have a decent backup QB. Not saying RW isnt motivated enough as it is, but sometimes having a good backup QB keeps your starter on his toes.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:07 am 
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Not gonna lie, I was a little worried for a minute there when Russell got dinged up after the sack towards the end of the game. Of course, he got up, and after a timeout he was able to continue. Dude's a warrior.

As far as Flynn is concerned, I'd try and deal him in the offseason. As Scottemojo points out, the Raiders front office and coaching staff are filled with Green Bay guys. The Flynn connection is there. With the Raiders at 3-5 and not looking like "empty corpses" out there, it's very possible that they could play themselves out of one of the draft's top signal callers. They might want to look towards a veteran, as the Carson Palmer trade was not under their watch and thus not their fault. We won't be able to rip them off as if Al Davis were still alive, but he could net something like a 3rd or 4th rounder in return, all while getting his contract off your hands.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how this plays out but I'm with Scottemojo on this one. Flynn to the Raiders in the offseason for a midround pick or two even thought I'd love to steal Marcel Reese from them! Anyways, let's see how it pans out.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:08 am 
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m0ng0 wrote:
he has zero value, he is no good, just ask anyone here.

Like Hell Yeah!, why doesn't Pete go and shop his ass off to a needy team, hell, we still have Portis don't we?


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am reasonably convinced that Flynn will be gone from Seattle some time next off season. First, he is disgruntled with his role. No, I don't have a source, but it is just plain to see. Second, his salary will be a vital part of extending some of the players from our first Pete and John draft. Third, the Raiders staff has ties to Flynn, and Palmer has crapped the bed in Oakland, leaving a nice trade partner in desperate straights. There are other teams too that will not be able to fill team needs in the draft, but for a variety of reasons did not pursue Flynn last year. Buffalo was dollar tied to Fitz, the Cards were hot for Peyton and also dollar tied to Kolb, with a hot prospect at backup, Minnesota and the Jags were still all in on rookies.

There will be plenty of suitors for Flynn, which is where his real market value will come from. A second would not surprise me at all. Especially since we already ate most of his signing bonus.


Personally I feel there will also be suitors to RW as well, but we'll see what's what after his first year completes.

Agree Flynn likely moves on, but feel the yellow bolded is complete horse manure. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:29 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
I am reasonably convinced that Flynn will be gone from Seattle some time next off season. First, he is disgruntled with his role. No, I don't have a source, but it is just plain to see. Second, his salary will be a vital part of extending some of the players from our first Pete and John draft. Third, the Raiders staff has ties to Flynn, and Palmer has crapped the bed in Oakland, leaving a nice trade partner in desperate straights. There are other teams too that will not be able to fill team needs in the draft, but for a variety of reasons did not pursue Flynn last year. Buffalo was dollar tied to Fitz, the Cards were hot for Peyton and also dollar tied to Kolb, with a hot prospect at backup, Minnesota and the Jags were still all in on rookies.

There will be plenty of suitors for Flynn, which is where his real market value will come from. A second would not surprise me at all. Especially since we already ate most of his signing bonus.


Personally I feel there will also be suitors to RW as well, but we'll see what's what after his first year completes.

Agree Flynn likely moves on, but feel the yellow bolded is complete horse manure. Sorry.


Funny, I agree with the yellow bolded. Are you saying you feel there is a chance RW is traded?

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:45 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
hawkfan1975 wrote:

Funny, I agree with the yellow bolded. Are you saying you feel there is a chance RW is traded?



Of course you do.

No, I said there's possible better suitors for RW within the statement of "we shall see what's what with RW (after at least a year of play).
Pretty cut and dry. I'm a RW fan but nowhere near the likes of some here. Time will tell the rooks tale.


Last edited by hawkfan1975 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:47 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
hawkfan1975 wrote:

Are you saying you feel there is a chance RW is traded?



No, I said there's possible better suitors for RW within the statement of "we shall see what's what with RW (after at least a year of play).
Pretty cut and dry. I'm a RW fan but nowhere near the likes of some here. Time will tell the rooks tale.


Huh?

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:

Huh?


Well, after a win is when we start seeing the "[player name] is the best", and "we're going to stomp [insert team here]. I just have to reiterate there's no way in heckfire I'm anointing a rook anything in his first year (wait and see is all we can do). Nor would it be honest to state a win with any of these upcoming games based on what we're seeing this year (and that's ok actually...as long as we're rebuilding for the better).


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:01 pm 
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and man...I know it's craziness but I'm not sure I'm completely sold on Petey yet either (as HC), even after this long. There's some things that make the brows furrow thinking "wtf??" (then there are moments of brilliance).


Last edited by hawkfan1975 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:06 pm 
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some of you guys are delusional.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:15 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
and man...I know it's craziness but I'm not sure I'm completely sold on Petey yet either (as a HC), even after this long. There's some things that make the brows furrow thinking "wtf??" (then there are moments of brilliance).


You are entitled to your opinion.

You should check out these guys, they kinda feel the same.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:


CourtesyLaugh.org


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:11 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
Well, after a win is when we start seeing the "[player name] is the best", and "we're going to stomp [insert team here]. I just have to reiterate there's no way in heckfire I'm anointing a rook anything in his first year (wait and see is all we can do). Nor would it be honest to state a win with any of these upcoming games based on what we're seeing this year (and that's ok actually...as long as we're rebuilding for the better).


So basically you sit on the fence until they win the Superbowl? At what point in your mind will PC and RW get your approval? I do agree there is a small fraction that overreact but the majority of the people here seem pretty level headed.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:22 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
rainger wrote:
you guys r on drugs. 1 4 th round at best. MY god this guy is the best overhyped bakup of all time.


Kolb?

:13: on Kolb. 4th if we're lucky for Matt.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:28 pm 
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After we win out and the rest of the nfc west loses out we will rest rw3 for our last game and Matt Flynn will go out and toss 6tds. We will then be offered a teams entire draft for him ala Ricky Williams. And so it is written.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:33 pm 
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DrinkinTheLimerade wrote:
After we win out and the rest of the nfc west loses out we will rest rw3 for our last game and Matt Flynn will go out and toss 6tds. We will then be offered a teams entire draft for him ala Ricky Williams. And so it is written.

:th2thumbs: :thirishdrinkers:

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:38 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
When you have your Manning....backup is meaningless. Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...... yup..their backups don't see the field. Our's will not see the field. Spend that money on securing guys we have that actually see the field.


Lets think a bit more about this one

Brady went down for a season. They had a guy on the bench that had been there for a few years. Cassell played good for the team to the point where many said Brady was a result of the system. I think more having a backup in the same system paid off and they coached well during that year. They then got plenty out of trading Cassell

Now lets look at Indy - playoff, playoff, playoff, superbowl, playoff, playoff or something like that - Manning goes down and they have no backup result worst team in the league!!!!

What other examples - Big Ben motorcycle crash and I think out for a few other reasons that year. Miss playoff. Bears last year Cutler goes down they were a lock for playoffs but missed playoffs because of a bad bench

Rodgers is partially a result of getting to sit on the bench as a backup

So if your point was that even good / great qb's need a competent backup so you don't throw away a season then I see the point thanks for the great examples :). The team as a whole is still not spending much money on the qb position. You need to keep Flynn OR trade him for a 1st or 2nd rounder and then use that pick / a lower pick for a rookie qb (low salary).

I guess the other option is picking up Vick for cheap :D



Excellent post.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:52 pm 
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His value on the Market just isn't up to his value to the Seahawks as a insurance plan.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:03 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
When you have your Manning....backup is meaningless. Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...... yup..their backups don't see the field. Our's will not see the field. Spend that money on securing guys we have that actually see the field.


Lets think a bit more about this one

Brady went down for a season. They had a guy on the bench that had been there for a few years. Cassell played good for the team to the point where many said Brady was a result of the system. I think more having a backup in the same system paid off and they coached well during that year. They then got plenty out of trading Cassell

Now lets look at Indy - playoff, playoff, playoff, superbowl, playoff, playoff or something like that - Manning goes down and they have no backup result worst team in the league!!!!

What other examples - Big Ben motorcycle crash and I think out for a few other reasons that year. Miss playoff. Bears last year Cutler goes down they were a lock for playoffs but missed playoffs because of a bad bench

Rodgers is partially a result of getting to sit on the bench as a backup

So if your point was that even good / great qb's need a competent backup so you don't throw away a season then I see the point thanks for the great examples :). The team as a whole is still not spending much money on the qb position. You need to keep Flynn OR trade him for a 1st or 2nd rounder and then use that pick / a lower pick for a rookie qb (low salary).

I guess the other option is picking up Vick for cheap :D


Thats fantastic, but if you are going to pay big bucks for a backup I would prefer we had an experienced proven vet. Why waste money on a backup QB with 2 games experience? Its not logical.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:10 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
mikeak wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
When you have your Manning....backup is meaningless. Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...... yup..their backups don't see the field. Our's will not see the field. Spend that money on securing guys we have that actually see the field.


Lets think a bit more about this one

Brady went down for a season. They had a guy on the bench that had been there for a few years. Cassell played good for the team to the point where many said Brady was a result of the system. I think more having a backup in the same system paid off and they coached well during that year. They then got plenty out of trading Cassell

Now lets look at Indy - playoff, playoff, playoff, superbowl, playoff, playoff or something like that - Manning goes down and they have no backup result worst team in the league!!!!

What other examples - Big Ben motorcycle crash and I think out for a few other reasons that year. Miss playoff. Bears last year Cutler goes down they were a lock for playoffs but missed playoffs because of a bad bench

Rodgers is partially a result of getting to sit on the bench as a backup

So if your point was that even good / great qb's need a competent backup so you don't throw away a season then I see the point thanks for the great examples :). The team as a whole is still not spending much money on the qb position. You need to keep Flynn OR trade him for a 1st or 2nd rounder and then use that pick / a lower pick for a rookie qb (low salary).

I guess the other option is picking up Vick for cheap :D


Thats fantastic, but if you are going to pay big bucks for a backup I would prefer we had an experienced proven vet. Why waste money on a backup QB with 2 games experience? Its not logical.



I apparently misunderstood your previous post....that is why I described it as excellent. I was under the impression you had quit hating on Flynn and felt we should keep him as a back up. Now I see that's not the case, and that you were likey serious in considering Vick. I take it back.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:11 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
mikeak wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
Thats fantastic, but if you are going to pay big bucks for a backup I would prefer we had an experienced proven vet. Why waste money on a backup QB with 2 games experience? Its not logical.


Just curious to know what proven vets you are thinking of ? Those type of guys are few and far between.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:16 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
mikeak wrote:
Thats fantastic, but if you are going to pay big bucks for a backup I would prefer we had an experienced proven vet. Why waste money on a backup QB with 2 games experience? Its not logical.


It is not that much money that you are spending on the qb position as a whole. RW is locked into his contract and the only way to get a cheaper and as capable qb is by 1) Wasting a draft pick on a qb in the 1st maybe 2nd round and then you loose a starter elsewhere or 2) pick up a FA that is going to cost more or 3) trade for one but then you better believe you will pay even more

Tell me how you get someone that you think has the same potential to win games (not just to come in and start) for less money than you are paying Flynn and remember that we are not paying millions to the guy starting for another 2 years and are not allowed to renegotiate the contract with him for that time so it is not like he is going to sit out.........

So continue to pay less than $10 million for the two qb's on the roster and have a great starter with a solid backup ( you think) or free up a few million but end up one injury away from being a bottom feeder in the NFL......... to me it is an easy choice and I would only trade Flynn if I get enough picks to get another qb capable of winning games


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Flynn's "eventual" value is the same value this thread will have in "X" amount of years. Thanks for the memories and don't let the door bang you in the butt.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:19 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:

I apparently misunderstood your previous post....that is why I described it as excellent. I was under the impression you had quit hating on Flynn and felt we should keep him as a back up. Now I see that's not the case, and that you were likey serious in considering Vick. I take it back.


You liked my post which T-sizzle disagreed with so you can keep the excellent comment as we are different people :)

Vick was a joke


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:30 pm 
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SeahawkGeoff wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
Thats fantastic, but if you are going to pay big bucks for a backup I would prefer we had an experienced proven vet. Why waste money on a backup QB with 2 games experience? Its not logical.


Just curious to know what proven vets you are thinking of ? Those type of guys are few and far between.


Jason Campbell, Tjax, Matt Moore are three examples of guys that will be free agents next year.... all of which have played significant more time than Flynn you could pay them less money....and they are proven, veteran QBs with NFL starts under their belts.

You pay less money, for a guy that has shown he can play..... versus paying a lot of money for a guy that has proven nothing. Would you prefer a guy with 64 career games started at less money or a guy with 2 games started at a higher salary?

Even if you wanted to pay Campbell the same salary as Flynn I would be fine with that. Flynn is an unknown and Im not comfortable with the backup QB being an unknown. If you want an unknown you certainly shouldn't be paying him what he is making.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:42 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
So basically you sit on the fence until they win the Superbowl? At what point in your mind will PC and RW get your approval? I do agree there is a small fraction that overreact but the majority of the people here seem pretty level headed.


There's individual players, and then there's the entire team. No "sitting on any fence" when it comes to our team.
Player anointing or predictions being a different animal.

Rooks get the wait and see approach. It simply must be.
* But for the RW'rs out there: there are some games where RW looks promising (just that more needs to be seen).


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:54 pm 
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Matt Flynn 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned." 2012: $2 million, 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: Free Agent

Matt Moore 2.75 million

Jason Campbell Signed a one-year, $3.5 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on playing time. 2012: $1.4 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2013: Free Agent

Tjack 2012: $1.75 million, 2013: Free Agent

If I figured it right Seattle is paying him 6 million next year because of the guaranteed money, I might be wrong. Somebody correct me if I am. Campbell got payed 5.5 Million with signing bonus and there's incentives. I doubt he'll take much less then that next year. Tjack would be logical from a financial and playbook stand point, but why sign Flynn over Tjack in the first place. I think Carroll got what he needed out of Tjack and would only prosue this line is we could get draft pick(s) for Flynn. Matt Moore isn't a bad choice, he'll probably cost about the same as this year (2.75) with a signing bonus plus incentives. The biggest thing I would mention is Flynn as are Back up will have had one year under are offense in the books and be part of the team. I get what your saying but it's not going to change much if at all the budget or cap (Moore or Campbell), maybe a little (Tjack).


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:30 pm 
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SeahawkGeoff wrote:
Matt Flynn 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned." 2012: $2 million, 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: Free Agent

Matt Moore 2.75 million

Jason Campbell Signed a one-year, $3.5 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on playing time. 2012: $1.4 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2013: Free Agent

Tjack 2012: $1.75 million, 2013: Free Agent

If I figured it right Seattle is paying him 6 million next year because of the guaranteed money, I might be wrong. Somebody correct me if I am. Campbell got payed 5.5 Million with signing bonus and there's incentives. I doubt he'll take much less then that next year. Tjack would be logical from a financial and playbook stand point, but why sign Flynn over Tjack in the first place. I think Carroll got what he needed out of Tjack and would only prosue this line is we could get draft pick(s) for Flynn. Matt Moore isn't a bad choice, he'll probably cost about the same as this year (2.75) with a signing bonus plus incentives. The biggest thing I would mention is Flynn as are Back up will have had one year under are offense in the books and be part of the team. I get what your saying but it's not going to change much if at all the budget or cap (Moore or Campbell), maybe a little (Tjack).


If you are going to spend the money, spend it on a proven commodity. Why would you pay Matt Flynn more than Jason Campbell......that alone and the numbers you listed above (right or wrong) indicate that Flynn is being overpaid and will be cut or take a huge pay cut. There is NO WAY pc and js will look at payroll and feel that is ok. They have been very smart with their money.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:15 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
SeahawkGeoff wrote:
Matt Flynn 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned." 2012: $2 million, 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: Free Agent

Matt Moore 2.75 million

Jason Campbell Signed a one-year, $3.5 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on playing time. 2012: $1.4 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2013: Free Agent

Tjack 2012: $1.75 million, 2013: Free Agent

If I figured it right Seattle is paying him 6 million next year because of the guaranteed money, I might be wrong. Somebody correct me if I am. Campbell got payed 5.5 Million with signing bonus and there's incentives. I doubt he'll take much less then that next year. Tjack would be logical from a financial and playbook stand point, but why sign Flynn over Tjack in the first place. I think Carroll got what he needed out of Tjack and would only prosue this line is we could get draft pick(s) for Flynn. Matt Moore isn't a bad choice, he'll probably cost about the same as this year (2.75) with a signing bonus plus incentives. The biggest thing I would mention is Flynn as are Back up will have had one year under are offense in the books and be part of the team. I get what your saying but it's not going to change much if at all the budget or cap (Moore or Campbell), maybe a little (Tjack).


If you are going to spend the money, spend it on a proven commodity. Why would you pay Matt Flynn more than Jason Campbell......that alone and the numbers you listed above (right or wrong) indicate that Flynn is being overpaid and will be cut or take a huge pay cut. There is NO WAY pc and js will look at payroll and feel that is ok. They have been very smart with their money.


The money is already spent. Weather Flynn is being overpaid or not he is guaranteed another 4 million no matter what. So there not going to cut him and pay him 4 million, that's just not going to happen. Why would Flynn restructure his contract when his contract is for 3 years. They may cut him after his second year. The way I see it the only way Carroll lets him go is for draft pick(s). Until that happens (meaning a team is willing to cough up picks for him) he's here for another year. So the Jason Campbell's of the world will have to wait at least another year regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:24 pm 
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SeahawkGeoff wrote:
The money is already spent. Weather Flynn is being overpaid or not he is guaranteed another 4 million no matter what. So there not going to cut him and pay him 4 million, that's just not going to happen. Why would Flynn restructure his contract when his contract is for 3 years. They may cut him after his second year. The way I see it the only way Carroll lets him go is for draft pick(s). Until that happens (meaning a team is willing to cough up picks for him) he's here for another year. So the Jason Campbell's of the world will have to wait at least another year regardless.


:141847_bnono: :141847_bnono: :141847_bnono: :141847_bnono:
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Flynn received a $6M signing bonus and base salaries of $2M this season, $5.25M in 2013 and $6.25M in 2014. His base salary is guaranteed this season, and $2 million of his base salary in '13 also is guaranteed.

The total guaranteed money is $10M.

Flynn's contract also contains escalator clauses in 2013 and '14 that reportedly could increase the total value of the contract by another $5M.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Okay I hate trying to figure out contracts. So 6 million signing bonus plus 2 million this year and then 2 million 2013 which makes 10 million or have I got that wrong again. Cause it's defiantly 10 million guaranteed, right?. They would still be losing another 2 million if they cut him next year, or have I got that wrong and it's staring me in the face?


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:49 pm 
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SeahawkGeoff wrote:
Okay I hate trying to figure out contracts. So 6 million signing bonus plus 2 million this year and then 2 million 2013 which makes 10 million or have I got that wrong again. Cause it's defiantly 10 million guaranteed, right?. They would still be losing another 2 million if they cut him next year, or have I got that wrong and it's staring me in the face?


on a side note....isn't :141847_bnono: just the most annoying emoticon of all time. I want to punch it every time I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:09 pm 
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I believe his signing bonus counts this year and next correct? So you save nothing by cutting him. He'll count against the cap, unless they can use the amnesty clause, but I don't think they can because he'll only be in year 2 of a contract.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:16 pm 
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[/quote]

This is true for any NFL QB. Depth wins championships......true, but that is not true for the QB position. Backup QB's don't win championships...show me how many backup QBs that have come into play and have won Superbowl?[/quote]

Staubach, Bradshaw, Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, and Tom Brady were all backups who supplanted starters at some point in the season and went on to win the superbowl. That's about what 1/6 of all Superbowl winning QB's?

There are also many who were backups that led teams to the Superbowl but didn't win.

I remember clearly the years Plunkett took over for Pastorini/Wilson, Doug Williams took over for Jay Schroeder, Trent Dilfer took over for Tony Banks, and Tom Brady took over for Drew Bledsoe. Those all took place at varying times in the season. With Williams it was for the playoffs basically only. Hostetler took over for Simms very late in the season as well. Brady took over early for Bledsoe (about a quarter of the way in). Dilfer took over for Banks after a couple of weeks, as Banks wasn't performing and they needed somebody to just manage the game and not a guy who would try to force things and created turnovers like Banks did. Plunkett was stuck in the Al Davis revolving wheel of QB's. Jay Schroeder lost the confidence of his teammates and coach and kept coming out with injuries. Gibbs finally said "enough" and just put Williams in and decided to just run with it for better or worse.[/quote]

I will give you Williams, Hostetler .... maybe Dilfer..... but stop it with the Brady, Bradshaw, or Staubach. The other thing you may notice is in the modern day NFL where QB plays a huge role its not happening. :141847_bnono:

Matt Flynn has started 2 games, I would prefer to take the gamble he won't be one of those 1/7 backup (if that, personally I don't accept all your QBs) who won't win the SB and allocate that money to someone who will see the field.

:les: If you want to over pay a backup QB lets bring one in with actual experience. :les:

:th2thumbs:[/quote]

What do you mean you'll "give me" Williams, Hostetler, and MAYBE Dilfer, but forget the others? The question was what backup QB's came in and won Superbowls. All of the ones I listed started the season in which they won the Superbowl as CLEAR 2nd string QB's. They got beat out for the job. Brady, Bradshaw, and Staubach were all second stringers at least a ways into the season (farther than you think apparently). Craig Morton was starting in Dallas above Staubach. Yes... Morton was the starter, but was a turnover machine, just as he was in Denver. Staubach took over. Bradshaw couldn't ever win the starting job, because Chuck Noll thought he was a moron. That's a fact. The starter's name is not coming to me, but he is remembered as the first starting black QB of the modern era and was a pretty steady guy, but he also had turnover problems, but Bradshaw could never win the job out of training camp and was not anointed the starter until winning the Super Bowl that year, and then he was... and won 3 more. Brady was a late round pick and was liked by coaches but they felt that Bledsoe gave them a better chance to win. He didn't come in until a fourth way through the season. Check your facts. You seem to follow me and question every post I make. I don't pull things out of my butt. I actually know a lot about football believe it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Backup QB's are hugely important, but I don't think Flynn should be it. He doesn't really fit this offense, never has to begin with, and he'd be far from the first backup QB out there to be hankering for a starting job.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:24 pm 
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List the great Russell Wilson backups out there or in the ncaa right now

Tim Tebow

Tavaris Jackson

Terrell Pryor

Etc.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:15 pm 
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You don't cut the backup qb to save $1-2 million. Flynn has a preseason under his belt he is in the meetings, knows the system and the coaches knows why they have.

If they trade Flynn then it is because they feel they gain something by doing so

If they cut Flynn it is because they don't think he can come in and win games and they think alternates are better

It will not be to save $1-2 million. If the saving was $10 million then I would listen to this argument but you need a backup that can win.

Can you imagine getting rid if Flynn have RW injured the first game next season and then go 3-13 meanwhile see Flynn take some team to a winning record? Someone would get fired if this happened.

Funny paying Flynn that money and make him a starter was not an issue. Now as a backup suddenly he is overpaid due to lack of experience. He was simply beat by what we all hope is the franchise qb for a long time to come....


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:53 pm 
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SeahawkGeoff wrote:
Matt Flynn 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned." 2012: $2 million, 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: Free Agent

Matt Moore 2.75 million

Jason Campbell Signed a one-year, $3.5 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on playing time. 2012: $1.4 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2013: Free Agent

Tjack 2012: $1.75 million, 2013: Free Agent

If I figured it right Seattle is paying him 6 million next year because of the guaranteed money, I might be wrong. Somebody correct me if I am. Campbell got payed 5.5 Million with signing bonus and there's incentives. I doubt he'll take much less then that next year. Tjack would be logical from a financial and playbook stand point, but why sign Flynn over Tjack in the first place. I think Carroll got what he needed out of Tjack and would only prosue this line is we could get draft pick(s) for Flynn. Matt Moore isn't a bad choice, he'll probably cost about the same as this year (2.75) with a signing bonus plus incentives. The biggest thing I would mention is Flynn as are Back up will have had one year under are offense in the books and be part of the team. I get what your saying but it's not going to change much if at all the budget or cap (Moore or Campbell), maybe a little (Tjack).


So still think we should cut Flynn and sign Campbell and save a million or two.... Watching tonight's game and I am not really impressed and this is after practicing with the starters all week....


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Flynn is a quality QB, he can play and has done so. The Hawks need to have him there if he doesn't ever take a snap.

If he doesn't, that means Wilson stayed healthy and continued to play well.

I just wish the Hawks were allowed to play the Bears at home against Jason Campbell.

Instead, for the 3rd year in a row they are in Chicago.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:13 pm 
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loafoftatupu wrote:
Flynn is a quality QB, he can play and has done so. The Hawks need to have him there if he doesn't ever take a snap.

If he doesn't, that means Wilson stayed healthy and continued to play well.

I just wish the Hawks were allowed to play the Bears at home against Jason Campbell.

Instead, for the 3rd year in a row they are in Chicago.

This.

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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:55 pm 
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I wish the Seahawks could play Chicago with Jason Campbell anywhere home / away / London wherever...

Cutler knows his "offensive line" and can still play the game. Campbell not so much which is why u thought it was funny that someone thought he is / was a better solution than Flynn...


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:36 am 
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mikeak wrote:
SeahawkGeoff wrote:
Matt Flynn 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned." 2012: $2 million, 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: Free Agent

Matt Moore 2.75 million

Jason Campbell Signed a one-year, $3.5 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on playing time. 2012: $1.4 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2013: Free Agent

Tjack 2012: $1.75 million, 2013: Free Agent

If I figured it right Seattle is paying him 6 million next year because of the guaranteed money, I might be wrong. Somebody correct me if I am. Campbell got payed 5.5 Million with signing bonus and there's incentives. I doubt he'll take much less then that next year. Tjack would be logical from a financial and playbook stand point, but why sign Flynn over Tjack in the first place. I think Carroll got what he needed out of Tjack and would only prosue this line is we could get draft pick(s) for Flynn. Matt Moore isn't a bad choice, he'll probably cost about the same as this year (2.75) with a signing bonus plus incentives. The biggest thing I would mention is Flynn as are Back up will have had one year under are offense in the books and be part of the team. I get what your saying but it's not going to change much if at all the budget or cap (Moore or Campbell), maybe a little (Tjack).


So still think we should cut Flynn and sign Campbell and save a million or two.... Watching tonight's game and I am not really impressed and this is after practicing with the starters all week....


I'm not sure if the question was posted towards me as you used my quote or just as a reference about contracts , but just for record, I never thought we should cut him.


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 Post subject: Re: whats flynns eventual value?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:26 am 
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Flynn can win us games if Wilson gets hurt. Priceless. Worth more than picks if you ask me because most NCAA qbs are a gamble in any round.

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