Don't take this the wrong way, please.
If you can't follow or havent followed this conversation from its start, please do not jump in midstream. Nothing personal, but believe me-you have asked a question of a quote that was directed at a specific person in a specific conversation within a room full of people talking at the same time (that would be a metaphor for this thread).
There is context to the above quote. And your question is not relevant to the argument I was having with that guy.
This whole thread, in fact, is a classic .NET scenario.
A poll is posted.
Less than 3% have an opinion and choose the option that is seen as extreme.
Lynch mobs and goon squads descend upon the thread and assume the worst of everyone's views.
I can't even follow it anymore, myself, and I have been here from the beginning.
My vote was for option #2, btw, if it matters. It's my opinion. It's an opinion. An opinion.
Oh it's pretty damn easy to take a post like that the wrong way. You've clearly followed the thread to note that I've quoted you and made a response to a series of posts you've made. So ok let then, since your condescending tone has really pissed me off let me quote the context of every single post you've made in this thread (that I was the first to reply to and have obviously just "jumped in to" and show you exactly how I lead myself to the post I eventually settled on (by quoting a post 3 pages into the thread which I obviously just picked at random, right?)
Now just in case you struggle to follow the following string of quotes, these are all things YOU have said, I've had to delete a few embedded quotes to allow this to be posted, but they're still your words and your points.
bestfightstory wrote:At this point, he doesn't seem worth the pick. He has time to change that perception. I understand that. Wagner has performance value equal to Irvin's draft position, IMO.
Hey hey! I have no problems here, Wagner (another "reach" according to draft "experts") performed well above what is expected of a second round pick, but of course, Wagner isn't a defensive end, so we wouldn't have filled the need that we had by picking him in the first round... and regardless we got him in the second round, I don't understand the logic here, we wanted a pass rusher... we picked a pass rusher, and he gathered more sacks than any other rookie this season.
bestfightstory wrote:Only 3 people voted 'bad'.
Most of us have a realistic and tempered approach to this.
Hey hey! another great point! "Only 3 people have disagreed with me so far, that means the rest of you are obviously morons!"
Your assumption is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs. There were other options at that pick, including trading back.
OF COURSE that's what you think, but then my train of thought here is, "what is the other option here? Trading back, definitely an option, but you risk losing out on the pick you want to make, if there's reasonable assumption to make that the player you want (Bruce Irvin) will be available later, then of course you trade back... if there is a team that wants to trade with you. We all know (of course) that we wanted to trade back from our spot in 2011 instead of picking James Carpenter there, but no team wanted to trade with us! How do you trade back if nobody wants to trade up? Of course that's a moot point in the end because the player we wanted was Bruce Irvin, and there's good reason to believe that he wouldn't be available if we traded back, as many suggested that with the very next pick, the Jets would have taken him! Now that's all fine and dandy, but maybe there's a better defensive end we could have taken anyway? Well you haven't addressed that point, in fact, what you've suggested in this very post - with the suggestion "your assumpting is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs", essentially saying that you don't think that's the correct comparison to make. That implies that you don't think there WAS a better defensive end available (that's interesting, considering he was the first DE off the board, essentially making him the best DE in the draft).
Still, on to the next post:
bestfightstory wrote:I understand that Carroll and Schneider said that, it doesn't take evaluating/critiquing their decision for conversation's sake off the table.
This was in response to the above post saying that they didn't feel comfortable trading back without losing out on a player they rated very highly (which of course, has appeared entirely correct with the suggestion the Jets were gearing up to take Irvin with the very next pick). You haven't offered any sort of analytical value with this post either, so it's an easy post to ignore, it's essentially another post saying "I didn't like the selection". Why? Why didn't you like this selection, you're criticising their decision but you have made no argument to suggest why you believe it's a poor decision.
bestfightstory wrote:Ummm that is obviously a matter of opinion.
Great point. Next.
jlwaters1 wrote:But the only opinion that matters is PC and JS. He was the "best available player" according to the 2 poeple who spent countless hours dissecting all the top-end prospects in the draft. And your going to tell me that they were wrong, base on your cursory reasearch? That makes alot of sense. I think I'll trust PC and JS over a bunch of internet posters.
But out of curiosity, who do you suppose was "worthy" of the pick?
Well. Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner, for two.
Well done again! We should have used our first and second round picks on those two and hoped for what we could manage with the third round pick instead of aiming for those two later. I don't understand this point, Russell Wilson was worthy of the third overall pick, but if you can get him with the 75th, why would you waste that pick on him? Your argument is slowly falling to pieces here (because obviously it was solid from the very start)
I am left to conclude that you do not understand the concept the moniker you have affixed upon me suggests.
Once again another attack on the poster rather than the post, I swiftly ignored this one because it was totally irrelevant to the point being made, it certainly appeared by this point that you were losing grasp of the discussion (argument) you were trying to have
bestfightstory wrote:Do I really have to walk you through this entire thread and hold your hand so you don't get lost??
The fact that they traded back to get to the pick where they selected Irvin, does not change the reality that they could have used that pick in any number of ways INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO........
Are you ready?
.....trading back again.
This takes me all the way back to the first post I made in response to you - you can only trade back if someone wants to trade up, and of course, it's only worth trading back if you think you can get a better value for talent. For the 15th pick what do you expect? you can trade down to the lower reaches of the 1st round and pick up a low 3rd round pick in addition, that gets us chandler jones (a player with less impact with more opportunity to MAKE impact) and who else? another depth player likely to make little impact, say for example we traded with NE and took Jones with their pick (and they took Irvin, a possible scenario), who taken in the third round do you think we really missed out on that would have improved our team?