Russ Tonight

[Seahawker]

You're welcome Denver.

 

[Ozzy]

Way to pick the times he rarely does it. Guarantee you if you pull the stats, he's still near league leading in fewest number of throws over the middle. And utilizing TEs? They are 31st in the league.

And the outlets / underneath stuff? He throws them because he can't hit the wr routes with regularity. He simoly will not throw if his guy isnt WIDE open because, well, you pick the reason. Look up NextGen stats. Russ is 34th in the league in aggressive throws (defined as throws into tight coverage). Wasnt that also something he was supposedly forbidden to do in Seattle?

Against the Chiefs, 9 of his 12 completions all game were behind the LOS. That translates to 3 completions beyond 0 yards... all game.

Kudos to Sean for keeping him within his game manager sweet spot and relying on his defense, ground game, and complimentary ball (sound familiar?). And, of course waiting for opponents to make enough mistakes to lose.

250 million for an 8 ypcatch average. What's that? 32.5 mill per yard averaged? Good deal! And that's high for Russ this year.

These are textbook 'Pete managing Russ' styled wins. Sean just wont let him scramble drill his way to yards.

Against the Bills:

Den RBs - 9 catches, 70 yards
All Den WRs - 12 catches 102 yards
All others - 3 catches for the TEs for the remaining 21

Last game against the Chiefs

DEN RBs - 7 catches 35 yards
All Den WRs - 5 catches 79 yards
All others- no catches for TEs

But go ahead and circle the TDs and RTG. Feels better that way.

250 million per annum... for sub Alex Smith performance.

And he doesn't have the most injured o-line in the league contributing to a slump (yet still is 3rd highest in the league in sacks). Nor does he have 2 key contributing WRs being integrated into the offense and making their share of miscues. And, he doesn't have a 1st time play caller making mistakes. He has Sean Payton.

And the above stats are him 'playing really well'

6.9 yards per average for the year. But he's not alone in the bottom 10 or so in the league in that category. He and D Watson, the other 250 mill 'elite' qb in the bottom 10 or so in the leeague are keeping the Desmond Ritters and Z Wilson's company. Watson can at least claim injury as a contributor.

No thanks.

Hats off to Payton for coaching his way to 4 wins so far. It's brilliant work. And I mean that sincerely. Much respect. Vintage 'you cant win the game in the 1st qtr...' type stuff.

my problem with your take is you look for every reason to talk against the stats to prove Russ sucks but with Geno you take the complete opposite approach in trying to convinve everyone he's better than he really is. Doesn't seem consistent. Russ is having a much better year than Geno overall, would you agree with that?

I could easily be confusing you with someone else so if I am I apologize and Im not being snarky, I mean that lol

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Exactly, not our problem. We fleeced them, it was good enough then, and it's good enough now.
But there you go again, it's PAYTON who is winning. Clearly not the players on the field.

It was definitely the players who won the game for the Broncos last night......the Bills players

 

[Aircrew]

Russ deserves credit for executing what Payton is asking at a reasonably high level. But the Broncos will not win many games if that's their blueprint.

This.

 

[keasley45]

Watching Sean Payton tonight has got me thinking.

Pete lets guys be themselves, and in some cases it is for the worst. Amplifying them.

Earl went off the rails.

Mike Bennett was reading books in meetings.

Angry Doug Baldwin, got well… angrier.

Sherman loved to run his mouth, ran it even more, eventually screaming at the coaches on the sidelines.

The Seahawks led the league in holdouts during the L.O.B era, etc.

Sean Payton meanwhile, put Wilson in his place, told him to stop being a politician, and stop kissing so many babies. Gave him the structure and discipline he needed to get his career back on track.

Pete creates monsters. Good and bad.

D.K. could be next. Pete loves stoking the fire.

This is Pete's strength and absolutely his weakness.

He encourages a culture of positive reinforcement, self determination and individualism. He provides the runway for players and coaches to succeed or fail and to be themselves. But he often lacks the will to step in and correct errors or damaging behavior - Rather it seems, choosing to relish in the moments where his guys learn and overcome. But what's lacked in that approach is a discipline which demands perfection - or so it seems.

It was telling when he said after the Raven's game that how they'd been playing was good enough to get to 5-2 and that they had no indication that they'd fall flat. i will say that when you look at the All22, the game was kind of a throw away after the 2nd qtr and a matter of a few critical errors in the 1st half. But even before that, the things that cost them, were issues that showed up in the wins preceding the Baltimore game. This says to me that the 'Tell The Truth Tuesdays' that are so well known, need to include even more accountability.

That, and that his approach of preferring executing a simple plan as opposed to perfecting a slightly more complex one needs to be tweaked a bit.

And i agree on the personality part of it. I think its why the drafts looked the way they did for so many years. Pete was as much trying to prevent the criticism of himself as he was Russ. If your coach is measuring whether a potential draft pick's personality will be too big for him to manage, you are missing out on a ton of talent. Not drafting a guy who will be openly critical of a system or coaching he sees as not working is only a problem if the leadership wont stand up and put those guys in place and are themselves constantly evaluating what they are doing. Its a balancing act that Pete has both failed and succeeded at, and one that this current team has still yet to show how they'll develop. The LOB, according to many members, managed themselves after a point. The held accountability on their own, with Pete stepping in to stoke the competition and heard the wolves, so to speak.

The irony is that what Sean has done in Denver is exactly 'perfecting the simple'.

 

[Ozzy]

How amazing was that throw and catch from Wilson/Sutton.

Wilson has two of the most improbable throw/catches in NFL history now according to Nextgen stats.

If this was from Mahomes, Erin, or Burrows they would be talking about nonstop.

Yeah I still don't get the Russ hate. That was one of the best throw and catches of the year and on the year Russ is near the top of the league again which is pretty impressive considering how bad last year was. Why Seattle fans can't admit it is goofy. He is prime Russ? No but he's playing pretty damn good football with a much worse supporting cast than Geno has and those same people are falling all over themselves to excuse Geno's play while being ultra critical of Russ and trying to tell me they're not biased about Russ.....Yeah ok dude.

I get why people got pissed about the divorce but at this point who cares.

 

[hgwellz12]

One day the truth will be revealed as to what Russ did to keasley personally. Son HATES that man!

 

[keasley45]

my problem with your take is you look for every reason to talk against the stats to prove Russ sucks but with Geno you take the complete opposite approach in trying to convinve everyone he's better than he really is. Doesn't seem consistent. Russ is having a much better year than Geno overall, would you agree with that?

I could easily be confusing you with someone else so if I am I apologize and Im not being snarky, I mean that lol

I'm not trying to convince anyone Geno is the savior. In fact, ive said multiple times that Geno will go so far as Waldron takes him. Hiw can i be blind to Geno's shortcomings AND say that he basically isnt the kind if QB who has enough of an X factor to be a difference maker on his own?

I speak out when he's had a bad game and all that's talked about are the mistakes he made, giving little consideration to contributing factors. And I do that after watching the All22. I've also volunteered to post video clips showing why I say what I do, whether the play was good or not. If I was just blindly being a fan boy, why would I do that?

But the 'pull the plug in Geno' push happens because there's a large contingent of folks waiting for him to fail so they can say he sucks.

With Russ, I'm not saying anything other than whats true. He's playing a game managers game and is working within a fraction of the offense Payton wants to run. How do I know that? Look at Jameis Winston's usage of TEs or his stats pushing the ball downfield. The Saints offense under Payton with Winstin at the helm is completely different than with Russ. Is Russ more careful with the ball? Sure. And Payton is using that trait to the maximum. But the fact is, he's playing almost entirely a check down game and taking advantage of broken coverage or extended plays. That's not my hating on him. That's fact. Look at the stats beyond TDs and completion percentage and you'd see that, plus his player usage, distribution, in addition to his unwillingness to throw into tight windows prove it. Ignore those things (which his supporters prefer to do and ONLY look at TDs and completion percentage) and you see a team that's winning because Russ is being kept on a very short leash, being told to simply check the ball down if he can't find a throw he likes, and is foregoing Russ ball in favor of condensed 'Payton Ball'. And that's been good enough for them to win.

You do realize that there are articles at the end of last month that predicted he woukd be benched, right?

Folks who watch his play, beyond stat hunting might see his performance as something entirely different than his numbers say.

 

[hoxrox]

Yeah I still don't get the Russ hate.

I get why people got pissed about the divorce but at this point who cares.

I didn't like him even before the "don't have to carry the team" comments and double speak "Seahawks for life" all the meanwhile scheming with his agent to get out of town..

I believe he cost the team a chance at home field advantage in 2020. The Let Russ Cook campaign wasn't about winning games. It was about his chase for MVP. Newton got it. Mahomes got it. Why not Russ? It ate at his soul.

He wanted so badly to prove that he could be a pure pocket passer and not just a sandlot player. He would rather play hero ball instead of wisely taking the check downs and moving the chains when film showed multiple opportunities missed to do so.

He couldn't beat cover two, even though the film showed that Shotty schemed cover two beaters.

The LRC was a disaster. 10 turnovers over 4 games... turn over machine.

Had he played like how Sean Payton is having him play now, and how Pete wanted him to play, maybe we go farther in the playoffs that year instead losing that playoff game against the Rams. He was abysmal in that game, btw. Just look at the stats. There were cover two beaters in that game. He just couldn't hit them...

"Carry the team" Gimme a break.

It was never about the team despite his "Go Hawks" and other personal branding strategies, it was about his stats and his personal legacy. He's unlimited, remember?

And like you said who cares at this point, but people keep posting new threads about him. I'm glad the team moved on. It was the best trade ever in franchise history.

 

[SonicHawk]

Geno has only gotten 3 points in 2nd half In Seattle losses this year. Explain that.

What about his 6 wins?

 

[Mizak]

What about his 6 wins?

Whataboutism

 

[SonicHawk]

Whataboutism

6-3.

 

[CactusJack]

Russ is having a much better year than Geno overall, would you agree with that?

Russ played well last night. His best game of the year. But for the most part this season his play has been inconsistent. Much like Geno's.

People point to his stat line (18 tds/4 int's) and argue that he's having a good-great year. But if you watch his play, you'll come away with a different opinion of him. I've watched just about every game (Denver). Far too many times this season, Denver's offense has gone long periods of being stagnant. In typical Russ fashion, a high number of three & out's and struggles converting on third down.

Geno has had an issue with turnovers, so in that area, Russ has certainly been better. However, both still have their own set of issues.

Fwiw this team is far better off with Geno & the assets that we're acquired from Denver. It's not really debatable.

 

[keasley45]

Geno has only gotten 3 points in 2nd half In Seattle losses this year. Explain that.

Explain? KW3 had the same number of points over that span. So did Charbs.

And their rushing yards were pretty poor. As in league low poor. How might you explain that?

 

[Ozzy]

Russ played well last night. His best game of the year. But for the most part this season his play has been inconsistent. Much like Geno's.

People point to his stat line (18 tds/4 int's) and argue that he's having a good-great year. But if you watch his play, you'll come away with a different opinion of him. I've watched just about every game (Denver). Far too many times this season, Denver's offense has gone long periods of being stagnant. In typical Russ fashion, a high number of three & out's and struggles converting on third down.

Geno has had an issue with turnovers, so in that area, Russ has certainly been better. However, both still have their own set of issues.

Fwiw this team is far better off with Geno & the assets that we're acquired from Denver. It's not really debatable.

I've watched almost every game. He's flat out been better than Geno overall and its not close. If not for some brilliant luck Geno would have 4-6 more picks and turnovers. Factor in that Geno has a much more talented supporting cast and its even worse. Geno has been much worse on 3rd down especially the last month or so. I think in defense or both Geno and Russ almost every team has had long periods of being stagnant. It's a weird year overall for offensive play.

Your last point is a completely different point. I agree I think overall we're better off because of the trade.

 

[Ozzy]

6-3.

If Geno can get through this next 5 games with even a couple of wins I think he will change some minds. It's a great chance for him to get right and back on track. we know he's capable of playing really good football and if he does we will surprise some people during this stretch. If he keeps making turnovers in the red zone or struggling with his reads its going to be rough.

 

[keasley45]

my problem with your take is you look for every reason to talk against the stats to prove Russ sucks but with Geno you take the complete opposite approach in trying to convinve everyone he's better than he really is. Doesn't seem consistent. Russ is having a much better year than Geno overall, would you agree with that?

I could easily be confusing you with someone else so if I am I apologize and Im not being snarky, I mean that lol

It's not every reason to talk against his stats. The problem with your take is the assumption that I have an agenda. I can look at Russ's game as a whole.

You do realize Payton held out signing on with Denver because of Russ, right? He wasn't crazy about working with him. Was he just seeing the negative too?

Seriously. Why was a qb guru not interested in Russ? And before you say it was the year prior that jaded him, he was capable of seeing the promise of Stidham I'm just backup play.

If he's as good as his fans claim, why all the talk about how he's untradable? I mean, a qb who single handedly takes down Mahomes and Allen surely has a bevy of suitors. No?

No.

Somebody tell all those teams that likely wouldnt even sign him to half the number he's making now that they are just blind to how great he is.

 

[Mizak]

6-3.

0-5 against elite teams.

 

[Mizak]

Explain? KW3 had the same number of points over that span. So did Charbs.

And their rushing yards were pretty poor. As in league low poor. How might you explain that?

Waldron. I’ve also blamed him last season for 2nd half woes. Or did you forget that?

 

[rcaido]

If you take out the contract aspect of Wilson, im pretty sure a lot of teams would trade/replace their current qb w/ Wilson. Maybe even Pete.

Wilson stats
3rd Down - 70.49% completion percentage & rating of 109.9
Redzone - 71.7%(1st), 33cmp(2nd) 193yards(3rd), 15TDs to 0int (1st), Rating 118.5

If Wilson continue to play at this level, i dont see the Broncos cutting Wilson next season. This also could have been all media BS as usual too.