Let This Sink In...

[Sgt. Largent]

That's not news . Watch the playoffs . There are several teams better than the Hawks .

...but not necessarily more talented...

And therein lies the crux of it all.

I can't think of one team that's still in the playoffs except maybe the Rams that doesn't have more talent top to bottom than us.

I think some of you guys over estimate our personnel.

 

[ludakrishna]

The Cleveland Browns are Officially better than the Seattle Seahawks.

Ask yourself this:

Do the Cleveland Browns have better talent than the Seahawks?

Is Baker Mayfield better than Russell Wilson?

The answer to those questions is flat out...NO.

So that leaves just one things: Coaching.

In one season of Coaching, Kevin Stefanski has already gotten the Browns farther than the Seattle Seahawks. Even without him, since he wasn't at the game last night due to COVID, his coaching staff far outperformed our coaches and absolutely destroyed the Steelers. I just read that our idiot head coach won't get rid of Schotty, which means, expect more of the same. There is zero reason to expect things to progress or change otherwise. When I heard Carroll was extended until 2025, it sunk in that the Seahawks will not sniff another Superbowl until Carroll is gone. For all of those that are all Rainbows and "But we've made the playoffs" continue to look forward to early playoff exits. Temper your expectations to all of us who live in reality. Sad to see all this talent on our team being WASTED.



Just disgusting. Ironic how after they won the NFC West Division they wore a shirt "Won not Done". Should have been changed to "One and Done".

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

 

[SoulfishHawk]

dot com in a nutshell. Not only is Russ somehow at fault for EVERYTHING, now he's not as good as Baker???
Ok...…. :34853_doh:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

dot com in a nutshell. Not only is Russ somehow at fault for EVERYTHING, now he's not as good as Baker.
Ok...…. :34853_doh:

Mayfield is nowhere near Russell's level right now. But if you're being honest and starting a franchise from scratch and analyzing which QB's stock is still rising and which one has plateaued?

You'd be hard not to choose Mayfield at this point in both their careers. Seven years younger is a LOT of currency in the NFL.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The Cleveland Browns are Officially better than the Seattle Seahawks.

Ask yourself this:

Do the Cleveland Browns have better talent than the Seahawks?

Is Baker Mayfield better than Russell Wilson?

The answer to those questions is flat out...NO.

So that leaves just one things: Coaching.

In one season of Coaching, Kevin Stefanski has already gotten the Browns farther than the Seattle Seahawks. Even without him, since he wasn't at the game last night due to COVID, his coaching staff far outperformed our coaches and absolutely destroyed the Steelers. I just read that our idiot head coach won't get rid of Schotty, which means, expect more of the same. There is zero reason to expect things to progress or change otherwise. When I heard Carroll was extended until 2025, it sunk in that the Seahawks will not sniff another Superbowl until Carroll is gone. For all of those that are all Rainbows and "But we've made the playoffs" continue to look forward to early playoff exits. Temper your expectations to all of us who live in reality. Sad to see all this talent on our team being WASTED.



Just disgusting. Ironic how after they won the NFC West Division they wore a shirt "Won not Done". Should have been changed to "One and Done".

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

Calling Russell mediocre is a premise based heavily on a small sample size, whereas his career as a whole is impressive. Your analogy works explicitly against you, not for you.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

That's not news . Watch the playoffs . There are several teams better than the Hawks .

...but not necessarily more talented...

And therein lies the crux of it all.

I can't think of one team that's still in the playoffs except maybe the Rams that doesn't have more talent top to bottom than us.

I think some of you guys over estimate our personnel.

We got rolled by the team you just admitted we are more talented than.

I certainly don't think we are far and above the playing field talent-wise. But we have high talent levels spread across almost all of the major position groups, and we are as healthy as any team out there.

If you're inferring that Russ isn't as talented as most have been led to believe, I tend to agree with that.

You might be right; either/or however...we just got rolled by a team that is not more talented than we are. No way shape or form.

 

[ludakrishna]

The Cleveland Browns are Officially better than the Seattle Seahawks.

Ask yourself this:

Do the Cleveland Browns have better talent than the Seahawks?

Is Baker Mayfield better than Russell Wilson?

The answer to those questions is flat out...NO.

So that leaves just one things: Coaching.

In one season of Coaching, Kevin Stefanski has already gotten the Browns farther than the Seattle Seahawks. Even without him, since he wasn't at the game last night due to COVID, his coaching staff far outperformed our coaches and absolutely destroyed the Steelers. I just read that our idiot head coach won't get rid of Schotty, which means, expect more of the same. There is zero reason to expect things to progress or change otherwise. When I heard Carroll was extended until 2025, it sunk in that the Seahawks will not sniff another Superbowl until Carroll is gone. For all of those that are all Rainbows and "But we've made the playoffs" continue to look forward to early playoff exits. Temper your expectations to all of us who live in reality. Sad to see all this talent on our team being WASTED.



Just disgusting. Ironic how after they won the NFC West Division they wore a shirt "Won not Done". Should have been changed to "One and Done".

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

Calling Russell mediocre is a premise based heavily on a small sample size, whereas his career as a whole is impressive. Your analogy works explicitly against you, not for you.

Last 10 consecutive weeks of the season say otherwise. He was mediocre. Russell showed me this year that his peak is that of a Joe Flacco. He will never be Aaron Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes

 

[LoneHawkFan]

The Cleveland Browns are Officially better than the Seattle Seahawks.

Ask yourself this:

Do the Cleveland Browns have better talent than the Seahawks?

Is Baker Mayfield better than Russell Wilson?

The answer to those questions is flat out...NO.

So that leaves just one things: Coaching.

In one season of Coaching, Kevin Stefanski has already gotten the Browns farther than the Seattle Seahawks. Even without him, since he wasn't at the game last night due to COVID, his coaching staff far outperformed our coaches and absolutely destroyed the Steelers. I just read that our idiot head coach won't get rid of Schotty, which means, expect more of the same. There is zero reason to expect things to progress or change otherwise. When I heard Carroll was extended until 2025, it sunk in that the Seahawks will not sniff another Superbowl until Carroll is gone. For all of those that are all Rainbows and "But we've made the playoffs" continue to look forward to early playoff exits. Temper your expectations to all of us who live in reality. Sad to see all this talent on our team being WASTED.



Just disgusting. Ironic how after they won the NFC West Division they wore a shirt "Won not Done". Should have been changed to "One and Done".

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

Calling Russell mediocre is a premise based heavily on a small sample size, whereas his career as a whole is impressive. Your analogy works explicitly against you, not for you.

Last 10 consecutive weeks of the season say otherwise. He was mediocre. Russell showed me this year that his peak is that of a Joe Flacco. He will never be Aaron Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes

And Josh Allen passed him like he was standing still.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Browns are absolutely more talented than Seattle.

Talent isn’t limited to players.

Like OP said, it’s also coaching.

The Browns are coaching with 2021 NFL rules and strategy.

Not this 1960s Pete Carroll system that is not built to evolve with the times.

 

[NJlargent]

Browns came out ready to play with intensity. So did Chicago, they just have a lousy offense. WFT played with heart. Baltimore played hard and the rams were energized. We came out flat and looked worse then almost every other playoff teams. That’s coaching.

Mayfield can’t hold a candle to Russ. Our problem is almost entirely coaching. We are a much better team on paper then to be completely useless in the playoffs.

 

[ducks41468]

Uh, the Browns are absolutely more talented and Mayfield definitely has been playing better, since he has better talent, coaching, and development around him

 

[Fade]

Trade Carroll for Stefanski and the Seahawks would be running an offense built perfect for RW's skillset.

Pete would dumb down the Browns, and go 1 and done.

Coaching is everything in the modern NFL.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The Cleveland Browns are Officially better than the Seattle Seahawks.

Ask yourself this:

Do the Cleveland Browns have better talent than the Seahawks?

Is Baker Mayfield better than Russell Wilson?

The answer to those questions is flat out...NO.

So that leaves just one things: Coaching.

In one season of Coaching, Kevin Stefanski has already gotten the Browns farther than the Seattle Seahawks. Even without him, since he wasn't at the game last night due to COVID, his coaching staff far outperformed our coaches and absolutely destroyed the Steelers. I just read that our idiot head coach won't get rid of Schotty, which means, expect more of the same. There is zero reason to expect things to progress or change otherwise. When I heard Carroll was extended until 2025, it sunk in that the Seahawks will not sniff another Superbowl until Carroll is gone. For all of those that are all Rainbows and "But we've made the playoffs" continue to look forward to early playoff exits. Temper your expectations to all of us who live in reality. Sad to see all this talent on our team being WASTED.



Just disgusting. Ironic how after they won the NFC West Division they wore a shirt "Won not Done". Should have been changed to "One and Done".

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

Calling Russell mediocre is a premise based heavily on a small sample size, whereas his career as a whole is impressive. Your analogy works explicitly against you, not for you.

Last 10 consecutive weeks of the season say otherwise. He was mediocre. Russell showed me this year that his peak is that of a Joe Flacco. He will never be Aaron Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes

That's an amazingly flawed premise. A peak isn't defined by a dip, its defined by... well, a peak. Saying his peak is Flacco when his peak is obviously far higher than Flacco is absolutely nuts.

Again, the examples you're providing do much more to disprove your argument than support it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you're inferring that Russ isn't as talented as most have been led to believe, I tend to agree with that. .

I'm the one who got kicked in the nuts all last week for saying Russell isn't as good as the other elite QB's in the league like Rodgers and Brees.

He's in the next 1b tier of QB's, QB's that can jump up and play at an elite level in flashes like we saw at the beginning of the year............but also can stink up the joint for stretches of games, also as we saw this year.

He needs a great defense, he needs a great run game in order to back the defense off so he can do what he does best, play action and make explosive plays. He doesn't throw on time well, he holds the ball too long and has a very difficult time throwing into windows while in progression.

So yeah, we love Russell but is he worth 35M a year if he's never going to take that next step to truly becoming a consistent elite QB week in and week out to carry this team to another SB under Pete's offense?

Eh, I'm not so sure about that.

 

[NJlargent]

I think it is inherently unfair to say Wilson is not elite like Rodgers. Give him a competent HC and I absolutely believe he puts up Mahomes numbers. Our OL is awful too.

He will never sniff MVP numbers with Carroll or another SB with him either.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

Calling Russell mediocre is a premise based heavily on a small sample size, whereas his career as a whole is impressive. Your analogy works explicitly against you, not for you.

Last 10 consecutive weeks of the season say otherwise. He was mediocre. Russell showed me this year that his peak is that of a Joe Flacco. He will never be Aaron Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes

That's an amazingly flawed premise. A peak isn't defined by a dip, its defined by... well, a peak. Saying his peak is Flacco when his peak is obviously far higher than Flacco is absolutely nuts.

Again, the examples you're providing do much more to disprove your argument than support it.

When did Russell peak?

If you look at his per-pass attempt metrics, he really hasn't progressed at all from his rookie season and the data implies that his entire career has essentially been one big plateau...and his increased production over the 9 years is essentially 100% driven by how many times he passes the ball.

Completion%
TD%
INT%
Yards/Attempt
Adjusted Yards/Attempt
Yards/catch
Rate
QBR
Net yards/attempt (includes sack yards lost)
adjusted net yards/attempt
Sack%

It's all essentially EXACTLY THE SAME EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Literally, zero improvement. The only thing driving the more production...is more pass attempts. That's it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think it is inherently unfair to say Wilson is not elite like Rodgers. Give him a competent HC and I absolutely believe he puts up Mahomes numbers. Our OL is awful too.

He will never sniff MVP numbers with Carroll or another SB with him either.

Maybe.

This is certainly the chicken or the egg conversation with Russell. Is he held back by Pete, or has Pete tried hard to create the best offensive schemes for Russell to excel in.

Unfortunately a question we'll probably never know the answer to unless there's a coaching change or Russell leaves.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The Browns do have more talent. They have a better coach, Oline, defense, RB's, and their WR corp is probably just as good or better when healthy.

 

[ludakrishna]

Do they have better talent? Heck yeah! Look at their OL and compare it to ours. Better RBs, better TE and if OBJ is healthy, a better WR crew. On DLine, Sheldon Richardson and Myles Garrett.

Baker better than Russell? To close out the season and over the last 10 weeks? Heck to the yeah. Baker is better. I’m done using Once Upon a Time Russell’s clutch plays and applying it to now. That’s like saying the Cowboys are a great franchise because they won 3 SBs in the 90. Russell is a mediocre QB

Calling Russell mediocre is a premise based heavily on a small sample size, whereas his career as a whole is impressive. Your analogy works explicitly against you, not for you.

Last 10 consecutive weeks of the season say otherwise. He was mediocre. Russell showed me this year that his peak is that of a Joe Flacco. He will never be Aaron Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes

That's an amazingly flawed premise. A peak isn't defined by a dip, its defined by... well, a peak. Saying his peak is Flacco when his peak is obviously far higher than Flacco is absolutely nuts.

Again, the examples you're providing do much more to disprove your argument than support it.

Playoff Numbers from two QBs

Avg Passing Yards/Game
QB1: 236.6
QB2: 215

Avg TD/Game
QB1: 1.56
QB2: 1.66

Avg INT/Game
QB1: .75
QB2: .66

SB Wins:
QB1: 1
QB2: 1

QB1: Russell Wilson
QB2: Joe Flacco

Russell Wilson playoff GW / Comeback drives 2012-15: 4, 2016-20: 0

When both of them were stop being carried by the run game / defense, they were mediocre.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Carried by the run game and defense? Hilarious
Thx for the laugh. They don't come CLOSE to making back to back Super Bowl's w/out him. Let alone all the other playoff appearances. He is as big a part of their success as the defense and running game was.

This tired argument still? The Defense and Running game carried him?
God that is rich...….