Mina Kimes ranks Pete Carroll at #10 among coaches

[keasley45]

Absolutely This^^^

We have quite literally one of the best coaches in the history of the game coaching our team and up until last year, people wanted him fired in favor of a qb who, without his coaching, has proven a far cry less than casual observation might let on.

 

[rcaido]

We have quite literally one of the best coaches in the history of the game coaching our team and up until last year, people wanted him fired in favor of a qb who, without his coaching, has proven a far cry less than casual observation might let on.

So Pete is one of the best coaches ever, yet after the Superbowl loss he hasn't done much after....Yet, Wilson gets the blame for not doing anything after Superbowl loss. We been a one an done playoff team. Wilson was the problem despite having a top 12offense most of his career. Glad he is gone...Meanwhile, Pete's defense has been below average 5 years straight.

For the record i have Bellichick at #1, Pete, Mcvay, & Reid are all tied for #2 the past decade. Currently though i think Pete is probably #7.

 

[pittpnthrs]

So Pete is one of the best coaches ever, yet after the Superbowl loss he hasn't done much after....Yet, Wilson gets the blame for not doing anything after Superbowl loss. We been a one an done playoff team. Wilson was the problem despite having a top 12offense most of his career. Glad he is gone...Meanwhile, Pete's defense has been below average 5 years straight.

For the record i have Bellichick at #1, Pete, Mcvay, & Reid are all tied for #2 the past decade. Currently though i think Pete is probably #7.

Yep. No matter how you look at it, Carroll has a sub .500 record in the NFL without Wilson, but yet everything seems to be Wilsons fault. Pete struck gold once and won a Super Bowl which is almost certain to never happen again and people are crowning him one of the best coaches in the history of the game. Lol.

 

[BASF]

We have quite literally one of the best coaches in the history of the game coaching our team and up until last year, people wanted him fired in favor of a qb who, without his coaching, has proven a far cry less than casual observation might let on.

That is not entirely fair. Some of us wanted him relieved of his duties due to his inability to adapt to the defensive changes in the league and sticking with poor hiring practices on the defensive side of the ball. Him bringing Norton Jr. back after he failed with the Raiders and giving him too much power over personnel decisions should have gotten him let go.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That is not entirely fair. Some of us wanted him relieved of his duties due to his inability to adapt to the defensive changes in the league and sticking with poor hiring practices on the defensive side of the ball. Him bringing Norton Jr. back after he failed with the Raiders and giving him too much power over personnel decisions should have gotten him let go.

This and not adapting to the ever changing offensive side also with his old and tired schemes and philosophy. In his defense though, the Waldron hire and giving up some of his power to him on that side of the ball has alleviated some of that disdain.

 

[scutterhawk]

I see both sides here. But since you asked who T-Jack had to throw to, here's who he had as his weapons on offense in 2011 - Lynch, Baldwin, Rice, Tate, and Zach Miller . Pretty much the same guys that RW had in 2012 and 2013. The Seahawk defense also ranked in the top 10 in 2011 season and LOB was there then too. Yet they finished 7-9. More importantly struggled to score points that season. Only averaging 20.1 ppg.

2011 Seattle Seahawks Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2011 Seattle Seahawks Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Add Russell Wilson to the mix in 2012, the scoring offense went to 25.8 ppg. Top 10 offense. (As the HC, PC should get credit for this too). Both RW and PC were factors for the improved numbers.

2012 Seattle Seahawks Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2012 Seattle Seahawks Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

So hmm, Russell Wilson (with his Speed, Youth & nuance of play style) took Jackson's scoring from 20.1 ppg. to 25.8 ppg. there's some validity to having a young Quarterback that Defenses have yet to see much tape on.
And yes, there's no denying that with his ability to scramble back in his younger days, Wilson was hard as hell to corral, stifle, & bring down, but, two problems were developing for him that required some much needed attention, and yet seemed to only get worse over the last 5 years, 1.) He'd lost some of his Quick & thus his ability to juke Defenders like he'd done in years past, and 2.) he was still hanging onto the ball for too long, and the combination of those two problems were why he was getting sacked so frequently.
There are quite a few posters in here that are pointing their fingers at Pete for not bolstering the O-Line with better Pass Protectors lolol, Pass Protectors for an Unorthodox Quarterback who just flat scrambled his way OUT of Protection....Only so much Pete or any other HC can do to help with that overused style of play, as Hackett (Rodgers Coach) discovered pretty quickly, and LOLOL if people who think that Payton will be able to find Linemen to fix that problem, it's way more likely that Payton will force Wilson to re-shape his mindset to play a more conventional style of Quarterback play...I hope for his sake, he can cut way back on his propensity to just cut & run on every other play.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I guess this is more about Russ than Pete but I guess when you are talking Seahawk legacy it's hard not to talk about one without the other. Hopefully another Super Bowl for Pete here can change that!
Anyway another reason on top of the ones mentioned for Russ's numbers dropping off is he's no longer a unicorn . When he enters the league, the smaller QB who relied on mobility and the read option etc was still a rarity. He and RG3 took the league by storm that year. Andrew Luck was the more the prototype. As time went on more and more QBs with that skill entered the league and now teams were spending more time figuring out how to stop it. So now teams are better equipped to handle that play-style combined to Russ losing a step.

Similar to how as more teams around the league started mimicking the cover 3 scheme the Hawks were using OC's started figuring how to beat it,

 

[scutterhawk]

That is not entirely fair. Some of us wanted him relieved of his duties due to his inability to adapt to the defensive changes in the league and sticking with poor hiring practices on the defensive side of the ball. Him bringing Norton Jr. back after he failed with the Raiders and giving him too much power over personnel decisions should have gotten him let go.

What is "Entirely Fair" is that even WITH having kept KN Jr. (and a few others) way past their pull dates, Pete STILL rendered the 3rd most wins in the NFL for the last decade.
People here on .NET are complaining about his downsides, but 3rd most wins and he ain't considered to be in the top ten?? c'mon man.
Oh and, even with a CRAPPY Defense and NO Savior Wilson last season, Geno Smith still helped to get Pete's Seahawks into the Playoffs, on his way to EARNING CBPOY and a Pro-Bowl appearance...Seems like Pete DOES know how to get the most out of his players.
Like him or not, Pete is a proven TOP 5 HC.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Wilson does take a lot of sacks because he's broken from playing in Seattle for so long. He has Carr Syndrome from running for his life for so many years. When you piss blood every Monday morning for that long, that tends to happen.

Lets not pretend its all on Wilson. Every QB under Carroll gets hit a lot. The numbers dont lie. You can look it up. Pete just doesnt put a lot of emphasis on the Oline or if he does, he and the personnel dont do a very good job coaching them up.

I see you're making things up again.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Dont bring up logic or facts. Nobody wants to hear it. Remember, its all Wilsons fault.

The irony...

 

[pittpnthrs]

I see you're making things up again.

Look at the stats and get back to me. They were posted earlier in this thread if your to lazy to do so.

 

[Hawkmode]

Rankings/ratings...by what measure? Instead of ranking you can "get away" of being labeled fan boy by acknowledging Pete is a great coach. I will also add this "dig" on Belichick...those win totals during their "glory years" had a golfer's handicap lacking any true rival playing in the AFC Least...err East.

 

[Fade]

So uhh... PFF came out with there list and Pete wasn't in the top 10.

You can't make Ken Norton your DC for four years and expect to be considered a top 10 coach. That is infact bad coaching. Sorry. Pete does a lot of things well, and then he does headscratching things like this, that drag him down the list.

Hurtt appears to be a disaster as well, I guess some need to see another season to confirm it?

 

[scutterhawk]

Yep. No matter how you look at it, Carroll has a sub .500 record in the NFL without Wilson, but yet everything seems to be Wilsons fault. Pete struck gold once and won a Super Bowl which is almost certain to never happen again and people are crowning him one of the best coaches in the history of the game. Lol.

Your "sub .500" is Crap Conjecture, and the proof is what Saint-Wilson did last season (getting Aaron Rodgers Coach Nathan Hackett canned) in Denver WITHOUT Pete Carroll, versus what Geno Smith did in Seattle WITH Pete Carroll as his HC, Comeback Player of The Year, & Pro-Bowl...AND even though Smith got sacked a bunch, he still threw for over 4,000 yards eh?
You see, it's Pete Carroll who understands HOW to get the most out of his signal callers, hanging onto the ball for too long well...That's on the Quarterbacks overextending themselves, and not taking some of the easier layup plays that are there.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Your "sub .500" is Crap Conjecture, and the proof is what Saint-Wilson did last season (getting Aaron Rodgers Coach Nathan Hackett canned) in Denver WITHOUT Pete Carroll, versus what Geno Smith did in Seattle WITH Pete Carroll as his HC, Comeback Player of The Year, & Pro-Bowl...AND even though Smith got sacked a bunch, he still threw for over 4,000 yards eh?
You see, it's Pete Carroll who understands HOW to get the most out of his signal callers, hanging onto the ball for too long well...That's on the Quarterbacks overextending themselves, and not taking some of the easier layup plays that are there.

Geno with all those numbers and accolades still only ended up with a 9-8 record and probably wont be much better than that this season if even. Right around .500 as I was saying. Crap Conjecture,,,,lol. More like truth serum.

Pete Carroll gets his QB's killed every season no matter who it is. That's on him.

 

[scutterhawk]

Nope, like I said & it rings true, "Crap Conjecture"
Now, you want to talk about a Head Coach who knows how to get his Quarterbacks all beat to sh*t, how about that HC & his ilk in San Fran, I suppose you're gonna keep grasping & try & hang that one on Pete too LOLOLOL
They say that the more experience that a Quarterback gains, the more "The Game Slows Down For Him" LOLOL I suppose you're going to say that It was Pete's fault that Russell Wilson got his butt HISTORICALLY sacked while playing for the Donko's last season, as Pete taught him to age & slooooow down physically too LOLOLOLOL.
JUST THE FACTS >Russ got his butt sacked, Hit & Hurried while he was still playing College Football, because HE held onto the ball for too damned long.
One thing Wilson learned from his 'Have More Say-so' with the ball club, he ain't no Tom Brady, who took a lot fewer HITS, HURRIES & SACKS, because that old fart learned early on to 'Get The Damned Ball Out, QUICKLY!!

 

[Hawkmode]

This is why I'm thinking #10 is generous. I don't like 8-9
/9-8 one and done rinse and repeat seasons for multiple years either be terrible or good middle ground purgatory is the worst NFL hell you can be in.

No slight on Pete in being "ranked" outside the top 10. Rankings without expressed standards is like trying to hit a moving target...just fun opinions. My own standard for a coach is to consistently put on the field a team willing to play at its best and give me game after game of feeling "tuned in" to its emotional outcome. I like a coach looking fired up and a team looking like it wants to emulate that coaches enthusiasm.

 

[Hawkmode]

So uhh... PFF came out with there list and Pete wasn't in the top 10.

You can't make Ken Norton your DC for four years and expect to be considered a top 10 coach. That is infact bad coaching. Sorry. Pete does a lot of things well, and then he does headscratching things like this, that drag him down the list.

Hurtt appears to be a disaster as well, I guess some need to see another season to confirm it?

Has PFF become some kind of "go to" sourcing? They are very good as a stat resource and respected for their dedication...but accolades? *crickets*

Ken Norton Jr and Clint Hurtt are part of our coaching transition to develop a defense that can address high pass volume with tilted rule adjustments that punish a defense to boost high scoring.

Defense is too boring for tv ratings so the norm becomes "adjusted" with "defenseless receiver"...tackling while avoiding helmet contact...and your most casual fan can not be certain of what a catch is. The defender needs to layoff contact till a WR pulls the ball in closer to their body while taking a few steps in his intended direction. No more exploding into a WR as the ball arrives knocking the ball loose. If not flagged your best outcome is an "incomplete pass".

Our 2013 defense would be hard pressed to not be giving up huge chunk plays for flagged violence. Defense is now like playing flag football...very little imposing your will on a pass happy offense.

An explosive offense able to sustain longer drives is the real key to minimizing the opponents rushing attack. Quickly build a lead and watch the opponents offense abandon its run ...to play catch up against an elite assembled secondary with pass rushers galore...all being coached up by a respected Pass Rush Specialist Coach (BT Jordan). Growing pains? Sure...but Pete and John are laying the ground work.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Geno with all those numbers and accolades still only ended up with a 9-8 record and probably wont be much better than that this season if even. Right around .500 as I was saying. Crap Conjecture,,,,lol. More like truth serum.

Pete Carroll gets his QB's killed every season no matter who it is. That's on him.

 

[fenderbender123]

I think he's a damn good coach. Can put together winning teams consistently, and seems to get more out of QBs than any other coach.

The criticisms about the defenses his teams have fielded the last 5 or so years are legit, though. It's been very frustrating.