Mina Kimes ranks Pete Carroll at #10 among coaches

[hoxrox]

There's context behind everything that seems to escape you. Yes Russ scrambles more than he should because thats what he had to do in Seattle for years. He also was in a new system playing under a coach that had no idea what he was doing. He also lost his two primary offensive weapons early in the season which hurt tremendously.

And its crazy how you and others look at Geno as an example of how much things have changed when the guy was sacked 46 times last year. He was one of the most sacked QB's in the league. Its not just a QB thing in Seattle, its a Pete Carroll thing.

Russ scrambles because he's not a cerebral QB who can read defenses like Tom Brady can. He doesn't anticipate - instead he scrambles and pirouettes into the loving arms of Chandler Jones. Sacks add up and dudes think it's on the protection...

Geno on the other hand, CAN read defenses and throws with anticipation. Russ? Play action, scramble drill or bust.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So Donovan McNabb was an exceptional QB? That's who quarterbacked the Eagles when Reid took them to their franchise's first ever SB.

The way I interpreted this list is that it's a ranking of current coaches as they stand today, in other words, if you had one coach that you wanted to coach your team today, who would you choose? Why else would anyone rank someone like Kyle Shannahan ahead of Bill Belichick?

Again, while I think the Mike Shanahan coaching tree is somewhat overrated. I think Kimes is going for innovation over long term success.

Idk if Belichick is a top tier innovator, as much as his excellence as a HC is more towards old school culture and organizational excellence. Much like Pete.

But like I said, I think Kimes is going for innovation in the modern game vs historical success.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

When it comes to creating an environment and place where players want to play, I will put Pete at #1. He's as good as anyone. I think his in game decision making drops him down from others in the ranking. He probably gets penalised by those who love the innovative offensive creators but Pete has a philosophy and sticks with it. I got a good insight into how he thinks when he was on the Seahawks man 2 man podcast recently. I don't agree with all of it, but I admire his conviction.

 

[RiverDog]

Well largely because most of his (Andy Reid's) defenses has sucked. His offenses have been good with Mahomes though.

While I agree that Reid has never been known as a defensive coach, his defenses in KC haven't always 'sucked.' Last season, for example, KC was ranked 11th in total yards and since 2019, has fielded units ranked higher than defensive guru Pete Carroll's.

 

[RiverDog]

Again, while I think the Mike Shanahan coaching tree is somewhat overrated. I think Kimes is going for innovation over long term success.

Idk if Belichick is a top tier innovator, as much as his excellence as a HC is more towards old school culture and organizational excellence. Much like Pete.

But like I said, I think Kimes is going for innovation in the modern game vs historical success.

I agree. The ranking seems to have a specific set of criteria.

 

[scutterhawk]

There's context behind everything that seems to escape you. Yes Russ scrambles more than he should because thats what he had to do in Seattle for years. He also was in a new system playing under a coach that had no idea what he was doing. He also lost his two primary offensive weapons early in the season which hurt tremendously.

And its crazy how you and others look at Geno as an example of how much things have changed when the guy was sacked 46 times last year. He was one of the most sacked QB's in the league. Its not just a QB thing in Seattle, its a Pete Carroll thing.

Sorry mods, but ^^^This guy is registering plum full on the sh*t-meter.

 

[scutterhawk]

Tavaris Jackson - 2nd most sacked first year w/ Pete w/ (42). When he played for the Vikings never had more then 20sacks

Geno Smith - tied for 3rd most sacks last season (46).

Clue-up Russ-Fan, It takes awhile for the O-Line to ADJUST to their Quarterbacks.
Tarvaris had WHO exactly to throw the ball to??
Pete was a NEWBIE with the Seahawks, and had yet to adjust to Tarvaris' play style, and had he not started the rebuild >AFTER WILSON< in last year's Drafting of Cross & Lucas, those sacks would have been a hell of a lot higher.....It's called ADJUSTING.. look for a vast improvement in the '23' campaign with Pete Carrols more complete revamping of the '21' O-line.
Wilson's O-Lines were at a HUGE disadvantage, as he did NOT perform to the norm of other MORE COMPLETE Quarterbacks..His "Sandlot" style is HELL on Pass Protecting O-Linemen....Pete KNEW this, and thus the revamping in the last two Drafts.
Some of the sh*t that Wilson has been going through is of his OWN MAKING.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Another of the most egregious Wilson bad takes.

Russell's been sacked a ton wherever he's played, going back to college where he was one of the most sacked QB's in the nation every year he played, both at NC State and even Wisconsin where they have the best lines in the country year after year. To the tune of 2-3 times a game.

Russell Wilson Career Stats - NCAAF - ESPN

Complete career NCAAF stats for Wisconsin Badgers Quarterback Russell Wilson on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

Remember last year when all the Bronco lineman were talking crap about how things were different now and Wilson wasn't going to get sacked like he did in Seattle?

55 times he was sacked last year, that's more than ANY year in Seattle.

Enough already with this incorrect nonsense.

I'm not saying Russ doesnt take his fair share of sacks. He's a scrambling QB and it happens. I'm saying every QB under a Pete Carroll coached team gets sacked a lot. Smith was sacked 46 times last season. One of the most sacked QB's in the league and that was without his #1 receiver missing any time. Carroll just does not put a high emphasis on the Oline. When Wilson asked for help on the line, Pete brought in Gabe Jackson and that was it. I truly believe that drafting Eskridge over Humphries was the final nail in the coffin for Wilson.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Sure, much worse than going to Denver with more control and going 5-12 and being the laughing stock of the entire league.

You don't even care anymore about facts do you pitt. Just keep beating these false narratives hoping people don't check the stats or idk, watch games? Not sure what your intention at this point is.

Yeah, his first year in Denver didnt work out, but there's more time to right that ship. We'll see if it happens. Might not, but the change was worth it to him. He knew nothing was going to change in Seattle.

Facts? Seahawks have gone a decade without moving past the second round of the playoffs. You can check those stats if you want.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Tavaris Jackson - 2nd most sacked first year w/ Pete w/ (42). When he played for the Vikings never had more then 20sacks

Geno Smith - tied for 3rd most sacks last season (46).

Dont bring up logic or facts. Nobody wants to hear it. Remember, its all Wilsons fault.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Clue-up Russ-Fan, It takes awhile for the O-Line to ADJUST to their Quarterbacks.
Tarvaris had WHO exactly to throw the ball to??
Pete was a NEWBIE with the Seahawks, and had yet to adjust to Tarvaris' play style, and had he not started the rebuild >AFTER WILSON< in last year's Drafting of Cross & Lucas, those sacks would have been a hell of a lot higher.....It's called ADJUSTING.. look for a vast improvement in the '23' campaign with Pete Carrols more complete revamping of the '21' O-line.
Wilson's O-Lines were at a HUGE disadvantage, as he did NOT perform to the norm of other MORE COMPLETE Quarterbacks..His "Sandlot" style is HELL on Pass Protecting O-Linemen....Pete KNEW this, and thus the revamping in the last two Drafts.
Some of the sh*t that Wilson has been going through is of his OWN MAKING.

Who did Wilson have to throw the ball to in Denver last year? Besides Jeudy can you name anybody?

Hackett was a newbie with the Broncos last season. He called the plays and mismanaged the clock and situations the entire season until he was fired.

I bet Geno Smith is once again, one of the most sacked QB's in the league.

Yes, some of the stuff Wilson has been going through is of his own making and yet some of it is not.

 

[rcaido]

Clue-up Russ-Fan, It takes awhile for the O-Line to ADJUST to their Quarterbacks.
Tarvaris had WHO exactly to throw the ball to??
Pete was a NEWBIE with the Seahawks, and had yet to adjust to Tarvaris' play style, and had he not started the rebuild >AFTER WILSON< in last year's Drafting of Cross & Lucas, those sacks would have been a hell of a lot higher.....It's called ADJUSTING.. look for a vast improvement in the '23' campaign with Pete Carrols more complete revamping of the '21' O-line.
Wilson's O-Lines were at a HUGE disadvantage, as he did NOT perform to the norm of other MORE COMPLETE Quarterbacks..His "Sandlot" style is HELL on Pass Protecting O-Linemen....Pete KNEW this, and thus the revamping in the last two Drafts.
Some of the sh*t that Wilson has been going through is of his OWN MAKING.

So it looks like the same thing happen in New England. Drew Bledsoe, sack total kept getting higher when Pete took over. He was the second most sacked QB in Pete last year with the Patriots w/ 50.


So Bledsoe 2nd in sack
Tavaris Jackson 2nd in sack
Geno - Tied for 3rd in sack

So that's 4 QBs in the top 3 most sacked QBs. Seem like a pattern to me.

As for Wilson, i think they said 1/4 of his sacks is on him but how many did he actually avoided because of his Houdini magic evasiveness. Yes there were some really bad ones, especially in his later years but he did way more good then those bad ones.

 

[Lagartixa]

I'm not saying Russ doesnt take his fair share of sacks. He's a scrambling QB and it happens. I'm saying every QB under a Pete Carroll coached team gets sacked a lot. Smith was sacked 46 times last season. One of the most sacked QB's in the league and that was without his #1 receiver missing any time. Carroll just does not put a high emphasis on the Oline. When Wilson asked for help on the line, Pete brought in Gabe Jackson and that was it. I truly believe that drafting Eskridge over Humphries was the final nail in the coffin for Wilson.

That sure makes the Eskridge pick look a lot better than it did before you pointed it out.
If picking Eskridge was what it took to get out from under Wilson's gigantic cap hits and fleece the crap out of the still-loathed Broncos, then thank you, John Schneider, for picking Eskridge!

I look at Broncos fans counting down the last five seconds of the play clock and enduring a 5-12 season, and with a QB who looks washed without Carroll and whose gigantic extension still doesn't even start for another year, and I think "there, but for the grace of Carroll, go I."

 

[Lagartixa]

Dont bring up logic or facts. Nobody wants to hear it. Remember, its all Wilsons fault.

Hahahaha

It's good that you can see there's a logic-free nonsense position in this thread. You've just missed which one it is.

You're the one who in this thread claimed that it's still Carroll's fault when Wilson leads the league in sacks for the Broncos.

The fact is that to you, nothing is Wilson's fault. Everything good that has happened for the Seahawks since 2012 was because of Wilson in your view, and everything bad has been because of Carroll.

Saint Russell the blameless has never done anything wrong. He's the greatest QB who has ever lived, except that evil Pete Carroll held him back. Never mind that once "freed from the shackles" of Carroll, Wilson was one of the three worst starters in the league. You know in your heart that's Carroll's fault too

 

[keasley45]

Pete is the 3rd winningest coach in the NFL since he's been in Seattle. He's a top 5 coach and that takes into account the failures surrounding his decision to cater to Russ.

Brock and Salk were talking about it this week too. The list is ridiculous. And how a coach who is only bettered by two others in terms of success isn't even in the top 10, let alone the top 5 ... absurd.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Hahahaha

It's good that you can see there's a logic-free nonsense position in this thread. You've just missed which one it is.

You're the one who in this thread claimed that it's still Carroll's fault when Wilson leads the league in sacks for the Broncos.

The fact is that to you, nothing is Wilson's fault. Everything good that has happened for the Seahawks since 2012 was because of Wilson in your view, and everything bad has been because of Carroll.

Saint Russell the blameless has never done anything wrong. He's the greatest QB who has ever lived, except that evil Pete Carroll held him back. Never mind that once "freed from the shackles" of Carroll, Wilson was one of the three worst starters in the league. You know in your heart that's Carroll's fault too

Lolol. Nowhere did I say it was Carrolls fault alone. I just said he's a contributing factor and he is. Any QB under Pete Carroll gets sacked a lot. Its just the facts.

 

[hawkfan68]

Clue-up Russ-Fan, It takes awhile for the O-Line to ADJUST to their Quarterbacks.
Tarvaris had WHO exactly to throw the ball to??
Pete was a NEWBIE with the Seahawks, and had yet to adjust to Tarvaris' play style, and had he not started the rebuild >AFTER WILSON< in last year's Drafting of Cross & Lucas, those sacks would have been a hell of a lot higher.....It's called ADJUSTING.. look for a vast improvement in the '23' campaign with Pete Carrols more complete revamping of the '21' O-line.
Wilson's O-Lines were at a HUGE disadvantage, as he did NOT perform to the norm of other MORE COMPLETE Quarterbacks..His "Sandlot" style is HELL on Pass Protecting O-Linemen....Pete KNEW this, and thus the revamping in the last two Drafts.
Some of the sh*t that Wilson has been going through is of his OWN MAKING.

I see both sides here. But since you asked who T-Jack had to throw to, here's who he had as his weapons on offense in 2011 - Lynch, Baldwin, Rice, Tate, and Zach Miller . Pretty much the same guys that RW had in 2012 and 2013. The Seahawk defense also ranked in the top 10 in 2011 season and LOB was there then too. Yet they finished 7-9. More importantly struggled to score points that season. Only averaging 20.1 ppg.

2011 Seattle Seahawks Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2011 Seattle Seahawks Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Add Russell Wilson to the mix in 2012, the scoring offense went to 25.8 ppg. Top 10 offense. (As the HC, PC should get credit for this too). Both RW and PC were factors for the improved numbers.

2012 Seattle Seahawks Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2012 Seattle Seahawks Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Mad Dog]

Lolol. Nowhere did I say it was Carrolls fault alone. I just said he's a contributing factor and he is. Any QB under Pete Carroll gets sacked a lot. It’s just the facts.

Getting sacked a lot is fine if the alternative is tossing balls up for grabs. Pete’s QBs still don’t get injured a lot. Look at QBs under Shanahan for a frightening comparison.

 

[keasley45]

Brock Huard, who himself was a qb, made a great point on the topic. He brought up the fact that there are few, if any coaches he can recall that were both defensive masterminds, and who (with Pete, in hindsight), knew the offensive side of the game so well that they were able to manufacture success with almost any qb he's worked with.

Sanchez, Palmer and Leinhert, winning championships with two in college. Yet only Palmer proved to be sure starter quality.

Wilson, now Geno, and before that getting good performance from a fulltime reserve in TJack, and pushing an over the hill Hass to a playoff win after his career looked to be over in Seattle.

Does Pete Carroll deserve the mantra of 'quarterback guru'?

Carroll's success with quarterbacks dates back to his USC days when Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart won the Heisman Trophy under his watch.

www.yardbarker.com

This article talks about it.

Again, it's amazing how little respect the man gets. Seems that for many, they won't know what they had until it's gone.

 

[scutterhawk]

Absolutely This^^^