Not being dramatic BUT is this the beginning of the end?

[John63]

We are showing an inability or unwillingness to run an effective offense outside of the big hit plays, and the defense has yet to come together..

Did you watch Russell's presser today? He said he didn't agree with Pete's criticism that he should have checked down more often and taken what the defense was given, and that he was "always going to go for it."

So there's your answer. For all that Russell does well, and that's a LOT. He is obviously not going to change the way he plays QB, no matter the scheme, playbook or coordinator.

He will feast on average to bad defenses, and look bad when we play good to great defenses that know how to defend his style.

Complimentary football? Eh, I don't think that exists within the style of how Russell plays QB.

Where’s the source?

well for one that is not what he said that is why no link. What you have is a lot of poetic listening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7watBH9Fe8


This is a paraphrase of what he said. I agree with find a way to win the game. The game happens fast, try to get the ball to Tyler one of the best in the game, 187 yards. Game happens fast you make a decision. We were 3-4 inches form completion. I am not going to change my mind set, I know what it takes to win. We win a lot of those games btu you can twin them all.


So the leap being made is that him saying he is not going to change my mind set is he is going to do it his way. Which while that could eb, but it could also just mean he will not stop being aggressive. Given most of his passes that game where short.

So basically what you have his people reading into what was said and taking what they want and embellishing it a lot.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Here is a reddit link

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comme ... urce=share

 

[AgentDib]

Thats a different question all together.

That was the important context missed, where Russ mentions running the ball with Carson and throwing the ball to open spots in the zone and throwing the ball to tight ends, everything that people here want him to do. Missing this context is how we get the "Russ only wants to throw it deep" narrative.

Here's the follow-up question which happens later in the press conference and never mentions Pete.

Question: The possession in overtime, maybe trying to check down there instead of throwing the pass to Lockett. Do agree with that, would that have been a better way to go?

Of course Russ is going to defend his play there; he's disagreeing with a reporter being critical of his play. Phrasing it as "Russ disagreeing with Carroll's assessment" is twisting his words.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Thats a different question all together.

That was the important context missed, where Russ mentions running the ball with Carson and throwing the ball to open spots in the zone and throwing the ball to tight ends, everything that people here want him to do.

Here's the follow-up question which happens later in the press conference and never mentions Pete.

Question: The possession in overtime, maybe trying to check down there instead of throwing the pass to Lockett. Do agree with that, would that have been a better way to go?

Of course Russ is going to defend his play there; he's disagreeing with a reporter being critical of his play. Phrasing it as "Russ disagreeing with Carroll's assessment" is twisting his words.

Doesn't matter who he's disagreeing with. He's defending the shot vs moving the chains. That's the point

 

[AgentDib]

Except again, the added context earlier where he talks about taking things besides the deep shot against cover two. And it definitely matters who he is disagreeing with. I don't know if Russ and Pete are on different pages, but I do know that every QB ever has disagreed with reporters who want to MMQB them in press conferences.

 

[hoxrox]

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ossession/

“So I’m not going to change my mindset,” Wilson continued. “I know how to win a lot of those games. We’ve done it before. And you’re not going to win every single one of them. But you believe you can. I think that’s the key to our football team, always believing that you can.”

So, basically, no, Wilson doesn’t really agree with Carroll that he should have played dink-and-dunk at the end of the game.

 

[John63]

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-not-going-to-change-mindset-after-pete-carrolls-assessment-of-ot-possession/

“So I’m not going to change my mindset,” Wilson continued. “I know how to win a lot of those games. We’ve done it before. And you’re not going to win every single one of them. But you believe you can. I think that’s the key to our football team, always believing that you can.”

So, basically, no, Wilson doesn’t really agree with Carroll that he should have played dink-and-dunk at the end of the game.

So In other words your just going to make crap up. What if what he mean by mindest could be that he believes he can bring us back.

Here is an idea until he actually says he doesn't agree lets not put words in his mouth.

 

[LTH]

It’s a devastating loss that sets us back…which we can’t do in this division! If we don’t reach the playoffs..is this the last season we see Russ in a Seahawks jersey?

It turned from a positive offensive scheme to negative so quickly, I just think somethings going to have to give. Is it re-build next year??

we scored 30 points, he had a 129 passer rating and over 300 yards. This might be the last year of Wilson which will make a lot of people happy. But this loss is on the defense period.

First of al we didnt score 30 points... i was personally on the couch eating grapes... not sure what you were doing but i dont think you were playing football... lmao!!!!!



LTH

 

[John63]

It’s a devastating loss that sets us back…which we can’t do in this division! If we don’t reach the playoffs..is this the last season we see Russ in a Seahawks jersey?

It turned from a positive offensive scheme to negative so quickly, I just think somethings going to have to give. Is it re-build next year??

we scored 30 points, he had a 129 passer rating and over 300 yards. This might be the last year of Wilson which will make a lot of people happy. But this loss is on the defense period.

First of al we didnt score 30 points... i was personally on the couch eating grapes... not sure what you were doing but i dont think you were playing football... lmao!!!!!



LTH

So I am presuming your being sarcastic.

Get a summary of the Tennessee Tita...ps://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326360[/url]

 

[Jerhawk]

The end started after Superbowl 49. The last 7 years have been a long drawn out painful death.

There are about 29 other franchises, owners, GM's, coaches and roster of players that'd take our "long drawn out painful death" of being one of the most successful franchises in the entire league the past decade.

1 New England Patriots 132-44 75.0%
2 Green Bay Packers 115-59-2 65.9%
3 Pittsburgh Steelers 114-61-1 65.1%
4 Seattle Seahawks 112-63-1 63.9%

Sometimes I feel like most of you guys on here never watched the Seahawks before 2012, because you have zero perspective or appreciation for what's going on......which is the single greatest era of Hawk football in 45 years.

Believe me, when Pete and Russell retire or leave and we're back to just another perennial 8-8 or 7-9 franchise? Then you'll learn what painful death is, no hope at all of being relevant and competitive.

I've been watching the Seahawks since 1998 when I was old enough to understand the game. I'm sorry I can't control the year I was born.

I'm well aware of the ups and downs of this franchise. Yes, Carroll has brought this team a ton of success and I'm always thankful for his role in building a championship team and bringing a Superbowl to Seattle.

However, this team and franchise has grown stagnant. Other teams have figured us out. We're basically running in place.
Their playoff record since 2014 speaks for itself.

Hey I get that you think you're better than me because of my dumb "the fix was in" thread. But don't you ever claim to be a "better fan" than I am. That kind of toxic attitude is what drives people away man. For crying out loud it says the year I created this profile right up front. Don't throw that bandwagon shade at me

 

[CalgaryFan05]

The end started after Superbowl 49. The last 7 years have been a long drawn out painful death.

Regrettably, I would agree with you -

 

[keasley45]

Thats a different question all together.

That was the important context missed, where Russ mentions running the ball with Carson and throwing the ball to open spots in the zone and throwing the ball to tight ends, everything that people here want him to do. Missing this context is how we get the "Russ only wants to throw it deep" narrative.

Here's the follow-up question which happens later in the press conference and never mentions Pete.

Question: The possession in overtime, maybe trying to check down there instead of throwing the pass to Lockett. Do agree with that, would that have been a better way to go?

Of course Russ is going to defend his play there; he's disagreeing with a reporter being critical of his play. Phrasing it as "Russ disagreeing with Carroll's assessment" is twisting his words.

 

[RiverDog]

The end started after Superbowl 49. The last 7 years have been a long drawn out painful death.

I'm beginning to think along these lines. In retrospect, we haven't been a major SB threat since the 2014 season and the height of the LOB. We have existed within a plane between a .500 team and a one or two and out playoff participant ever since then, playing just well enough to make us think that we're a contender and not bad enough to get some decent draft picks that might improve our team beyond its mediocre status.

 

[pmedic920]

The end started after Superbowl 49. The last 7 years have been a long drawn out painful death.

There are about 29 other franchises, owners, GM's, coaches and roster of players that'd take our "long drawn out painful death" of being one of the most successful franchises in the entire league the past decade.

1 New England Patriots 132-44 75.0%
2 Green Bay Packers 115-59-2 65.9%
3 Pittsburgh Steelers 114-61-1 65.1%
4 Seattle Seahawks 112-63-1 63.9%

Sometimes I feel like most of you guys on here never watched the Seahawks before 2012, because you have zero perspective or appreciation for what's going on......which is the single greatest era of Hawk football in 45 years.

Believe me, when Pete and Russell retire or leave and we're back to just another perennial 8-8 or 7-9 franchise? Then you'll learn what painful death is, no hope at all of being relevant and competitive.

Been a fan since 81. Very appreciative of the succrss we've had and who's brought it to us. But you'd have to have your head in the sand to not see that there's something amiss in our PNW version of Camelot. Talking about doesn't mean you you're pulling for some apocalyptic end. Just obvious there's something not quite right.

I agree w/sarge but I also think your statement is fair on the surface.

My question to you would be: if something is “not quite right” in your opinion, what exactly are your expectations?
How much success are you seeking?

The NFL has gone way out of its way to create parity of teams, and all teams occasionally lose games that they should have won (Hawks vs Titans) as an example based on first half play.
I’m disappointed in the loss as much as anyone but the fact is that was a pretty tough game to pick if one was being completely impartial.

Going back to Sarge’s point, and a point I’ve made myself many times, “it’s a great time to be a Seahawk fan”.
In spite of occasional disappointing games and frustration I just can’t complain about the current era in good faith. I ask myself “what are your expectations”?

 

[pmedic920]

There are about 29 other franchises, owners, GM's, coaches and roster of players that'd take our "long drawn out painful death" of being one of the most successful franchises in the entire league the past decade.

1 New England Patriots 132-44 75.0%
2 Green Bay Packers 115-59-2 65.9%
3 Pittsburgh Steelers 114-61-1 65.1%
4 Seattle Seahawks 112-63-1 63.9%

Sometimes I feel like most of you guys on here never watched the Seahawks before 2012, because you have zero perspective or appreciation for what's going on......which is the single greatest era of Hawk football in 45 years.

Believe me, when Pete and Russell retire or leave and we're back to just another perennial 8-8 or 7-9 franchise? Then you'll learn what painful death is, no hope at all of being relevant and competitive.

Been a fan since 81. Very appreciative of the succrss we've had and who's brought it to us. But you'd have to have your head in the sand to not see that there's something amiss in our PNW version of Camelot. Talking about doesn't mean you you're pulling for some apocalyptic end. Just obvious there's something not quite right.

Your "not quite right" is the norm in the NFL, even for good franchises.

The problem is you and other fans think anything short of a SB something is "not quite right." When it's just the reality of a parity league that punishes winners and rewards the losers, and now we're back to just being a good team, and not a great one. Doesn't mean we shouldn't want to go to SB's, or make occasional deep playoff runs.

But that is not the norm, for ANY franchise. This IS the norm.

So go ahead, have bigger unrealistic expectations, but IMO your not quite right is a product of expectations, and not what you're seeing on the football field.

My saying things arent quite right have nothing to do with whether or not we win superbowls. Zero, It has to do with the obvious disconnect between what it seems we should be capable of even attempting vs what we're showing on the field.

I personally think the hawks have the best franchise in the league because they emphasize a human aspect of team building and character building that few, if any other franchises do, and place that value above raw physical measurables. They do that because they believe that if you can get athletes (men) to play to their maximum ability because their contributions are valued and acknowledged, that that can get you a lot further than just marching a group of hyper talented, concensus top draft picks out on the field and scripting the latest and greatest of x's and o's for them to follow.

My 'not quite right' has to do with the dissonance that is obvious between what we said we were going to go out and accomplish in terms of becoming a more effective and aggressive offense (acquiring Waldron, implementing a new scheme - talking about how great it was all offseason), and the literal antithesis of that on the field. Its the equivalent of upgrading your track car from a miata to a 911 and then never shifting out of third gear, or using all the tech that SHOULD make you more competitive.

Even beyond that is just a basic lack of situational awareness and disconnect between offense and defense that saw the O implement ZERO ball / clock control playcalling. ZERO. and situational awareness has been a hallmark of Pete Carroll / RW led teams. And then that the leader of the O seemed to not acknowledge that that was an issue... nor was the decision to use but 1/5 of the toolbox the offense has at its disposal.

And none of that has anything to do with false expectations. Football is a dynamic sport. Ive coached it, played it and have been an NFL fan since i was 5 years old. Its foolish to have any expectations for how a season will end in terms of Wins and Losses. For me, none of that is as important as playing to your ability, whatever that might be when taking injuries, unforseen circumstances, etc into account. Just play sound, smart football.

We arent doing that. The reason why goes beyond basic x's and o's

This is fair too.

Here’s how I’m looking at it currently.

We have a very small sample size (2games) with the current OC/DC/HC/QB configuration.

After the first game a was 100% stoked.
After the 2nd game I was disappointed.

I had to check myself with the disappointment because it was only one game, and I just don’t see this becoming a trend. This team always bounces back strong even in the face of a two game slide.

When I hear complaints or loss of faith in the current team, I always wonder who do we want to replace Pete or Russ, and this goes back to my previous question. What are our expectations?

 

[keasley45]

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-not-going-to-change-mindset-after-pete-carrolls-assessment-of-ot-possession/

“So I’m not going to change my mindset,” Wilson continued. “I know how to win a lot of those games. We’ve done it before. And you’re not going to win every single one of them. But you believe you can. I think that’s the key to our football team, always believing that you can.”

So, basically, no, Wilson doesn’t really agree with Carroll that he should have played dink-and-dunk at the end of the game.

So In other words your just going to make crap up. What if what he mean by mindest could be that he believes he can bring us back.

Here is an idea until he actually says he doesn't agree lets not put words in his mouth.

You have to take it in context with what actually happened that caused the question in the first place - the utterly poor possession in OT, and what happened last year in multiple key situations in games - Giants, Rams comes to mind, when defenses harden and take away the long shot. You can make up alternate reasons for why you think he said what he did, but to do so is to conveniently ignore the obvious tension that's existed between coach, coordinator and qb for a few years now, not to mention the hard line Russ drew this offseason and the drama that swirled around it.

He can say he knows what to do all he wants. Knowing what to do and doing it are two different things. And not doing it in a situation like the 4th qtr and OT last week... context.

And FYI, the insinuation that people are taking his press conference out if context is also innacurate. I made my statements about Russ's actions first on Sunday following the game. His statement yesterday just confirms that there's not just smoke.

This has been brewing for a long time.

 

[RiverDog]

Been a fan since 81. Very appreciative of the succrss we've had and who's brought it to us. But you'd have to have your head in the sand to not see that there's something amiss in our PNW version of Camelot. Talking about doesn't mean you you're pulling for some apocalyptic end. Just obvious there's something not quite right.

I agree w/sarge but I also think your statement is fair on the surface.

My question to you would be: if something is “not quite right” in your opinion, what exactly are your expectations?
How much success are you seeking?

The NFL has gone way out of its way to create parity of teams, and all teams occasionally lose games that they should have won (Hawks vs Titans) as an example based on first half play.
I’m disappointed in the loss as much as anyone but the fact is that was a pretty tough game to pick if one was being completely impartial.

Going back to Sarge’s point, and a point I’ve made myself many times, “it’s a great time to be a Seahawk fan”.
In spite of occasional disappointing games and frustration I just can’t complain about the current era in good faith. I ask myself “what are your expectations”?[/quote]

I've been a fan since the get-go, 1976. I've stuck with this team through their highs, the 2013 season being the apex, and their lows, the mid 90's when they nearly moved to S. California. No one can trump my credentials as a 12.

There's no doubt that my expectations, thanks to Pete Carroll and Mike Holmgren, have been raised from what they were back in the 90's. Simply making the playoffs is no longer good enough, especially now that they've expanded them to the point where a .500 team making them is no longer an anomaly. I don't necessarily need a Lombardi to meet my heightened expectations, but I do want to see this team on an upward plane and not simply treading water as we have been for the past 6 seasons.

I don't have a W/L record or playoff result threshold. It's a subjective feeling, whether or not we're improving and increasing our chances. Last season's playoff butt kicking at home by the Rams, a team that we had beaten just a few weeks earlier, was a huge personal embarrassment for me. It was as if I'd been tricked into thinking we were better than we were, that I was looking at Fool's Gold. I felt like a sucker, a stooge that had been lured into buying a case of snake oil from a slick salesman.

This season is a critical juncture for me. If I don't regain that feeling, that we're on the cusp of something really special, ie another SB appearance, then I'm off the Pete/Russell bandwagon. I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'd be willing to accept the risk that blowing up this team could lead us into football oblivion ala the Lions, Bengals, and Jets.

 

[RiverDog]

I agree w/sarge but I also think your statement is fair on the surface.

My question to you would be: if something is “not quite right” in your opinion, what exactly are your expectations?
How much success are you seeking?

The NFL has gone way out of its way to create parity of teams, and all teams occasionally lose games that they should have won (Hawks vs Titans) as an example based on first half play.
I’m disappointed in the loss as much as anyone but the fact is that was a pretty tough game to pick if one was being completely impartial.

Going back to Sarge’s point, and a point I’ve made myself many times, “it’s a great time to be a Seahawk fan”.
In spite of occasional disappointing games and frustration I just can’t complain about the current era in good faith. I ask myself “what are your expectations”?

I've been a fan since the get-go, 1976. I've stuck with this team through their highs, the 2013 season being the apex, and their lows, the mid 90's when they nearly moved to S. California. I've spent countless thousands of dollars and valuable vacation time following them on the road, including across the pond in London. No one can trump my credentials as a 12.

There's no doubt that my expectations, thanks to Pete Carroll and Mike Holmgren, have been raised from what they were back in the 90's. Simply making the playoffs is no longer good enough, especially now that they've expanded them to the point where a .500 team making them is no longer an anomaly. I don't necessarily need a Lombardi to meet my heightened expectations, but I do want to see this team on an upward plane and not simply treading water as we have been for the past 6 seasons.

I don't have a W/L record or playoff result threshold. It's a subjective feeling, whether or not we're improving and increasing our chances. Last season's playoff butt kicking at home by the Rams, a team that we had beaten just a few weeks earlier and was led by a QB with a broken thumb that they promptly discarded like yesterday's newspaper, was a huge personal embarrassment for me. It was as if I'd been tricked into thinking we were better than we were, that I was looking at Fool's Gold. I felt like a sucker, a stooge that had been lured into buying a case of snake oil from a slick salesman.

This season is a critical juncture for me. If I don't regain that feeling, that we're on the cusp of something really special, ie another SB appearance, then I'm off the Pete/Russell bandwagon. I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'd be willing to accept the risk that blowing up this team could lead us into football oblivion ala the Lions, Bengals, and Jets.

 

[pmedic920]

Been a fan since 81. Very appreciative of the succrss we've had and who's brought it to us. But you'd have to have your head in the sand to not see that there's something amiss in our PNW version of Camelot. Talking about doesn't mean you you're pulling for some apocalyptic end. Just obvious there's something not quite right.

I agree w/sarge but I also think your statement is fair on the surface.

My question to you would be: if something is “not quite right” in your opinion, what exactly are your expectations?
How much success are you seeking?

The NFL has gone way out of its way to create parity of teams, and all teams occasionally lose games that they should have won (Hawks vs Titans) as an example based on first half play.
I’m disappointed in the loss as much as anyone but the fact is that was a pretty tough game to pick if one was being completely impartial.

Going back to Sarge’s point, and a point I’ve made myself many times, “it’s a great time to be a Seahawk fan”.
In spite of occasional disappointing games and frustration I just can’t complain about the current era in good faith. I ask myself “what are your expectations”?

I've been a fan since the get-go, 1976. I've stuck with this team through their highs, the 2013 season being the apex, and their lows, the mid 90's when they nearly moved to S. California. No one can trump my credentials as a 12.

There's no doubt that my expectations, thanks to Pete Carroll and Mike Holmgren, have been raised from what they were back in the 90's. Simply making the playoffs is no longer good enough, especially now that they've expanded them to the point where a .500 team making them is no longer an anomaly. I don't necessarily need a Lombardi to meet my heightened expectations, but I do want to see this team on an upward plane and not simply treading water as we have been for the past 6 seasons.

I don't have a W/L record or playoff result threshold. It's a subjective feeling, whether or not we're improving and increasing our chances. Last season's playoff butt kicking at home by the Rams, a team that we had beaten just a few weeks earlier, was a huge personal embarrassment for me. It was as if I'd been tricked into thinking we were better than we were, that I was looking at Fool's Gold. I felt like a sucker, a stooge that had been lured into buying a case of snake oil from a slick salesman.

This season is a critical juncture for me. If I don't regain that feeling, that we're on the cusp of something really special, ie another SB appearance, then I'm off the Pete/Russell bandwagon. I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'd be willing to accept the risk that blowing up this team could lead us into football oblivion ala the Lions, Bengals, and Jets.[/quote]If I understand you.

Say we lose in the first round of playoffs this season.

You’re willing to enter a complete rebuild phase?
Is this what you’re saying?

If so, I suggest you stay away from Vegas.

If we look at the season after this one, the odds of success with Pete/Russ still would far surpass that of whatever rebuilding took place.

I’m not questioning anyone’s status as a fan, I’m simply offering my way of looking at things.

You do you.

 

[keasley45]

The end started after Superbowl 49. The last 7 years have been a long drawn out painful death.

There are about 29 other franchises, owners, GM's, coaches and roster of players that'd take our "long drawn out painful death" of being one of the most successful franchises in the entire league the past decade.

1 New England Patriots 132-44 75.0%
2 Green Bay Packers 115-59-2 65.9%
3 Pittsburgh Steelers 114-61-1 65.1%
4 Seattle Seahawks 112-63-1 63.9%

Sometimes I feel like most of you guys on here never watched the Seahawks before 2012, because you have zero perspective or appreciation for what's going on......which is the single greatest era of Hawk football in 45 years.

Believe me, when Pete and Russell retire or leave and we're back to just another perennial 8-8 or 7-9 franchise? Then you'll learn what painful death is, no hope at all of being relevant and competitive.

Been a fan since 81. Very appreciative of the succrss we've had and who's brought it to us. But you'd have to have your head in the sand to not see that there's something amiss in our PNW version of Camelot. Talking about doesn't mean you you're pulling for some apocalyptic end. Just obvious there's something not quite right.

I agree w/sarge but I also think your statement is fair on the surface.

My question to you would be: if something is “not quite right” in your opinion, what exactly are your expectations?
How much success are you seeking?

The NFL has gone way out of its way to create parity of teams, and all teams occasionally lose games that they should have won (Hawks vs Titans) as an example based on first half play.
I’m disappointed in the loss as much as anyone but the fact is that was a pretty tough game to pick if one was being completely impartial.

Going back to Sarge’s point, and a point I’ve made myself many times, “it’s a great time to be a Seahawk fan”.
In spite of occasional disappointing games and frustration I just can’t complain about the current era in good faith. I ask myself “what are your expectations”?

I said this earlier. My expectations have nothing to do with superbowls or playoff wins. If you're an old school seahawk's fan, then you absolutely know that it doesn't matter if the team finishes 2 and 14 or 14 and 2, you're still going to cheer just as hard, year in, year out. Doesn't matter if your coach is Paterra, or Erickson, or Holmgren and Carroll. Expectations for wins aren't the hook to hang your hat on. It's rooting for a team that fights tooth and nail, week in and week out and finds a way to win sometimes just because it's smarter.

My expectation is that we play smart football. Situationally aware football, and not throw away wins or opportunities within games to get us wins because of ego, a desire to win a certain way, or because one side of the ball decides to do its own thing. That's never been Seahawks football. We've had losses because we weren't as good, as talented, or in situations just made regrettable mistakes - and mistakes that were acknowledged.

My expectation is that we wouldn't play games like we did last week where on offense we execute poorly and make poor decisions about the plays called and where the ball went... and then double down and defend the poor decisions.

Make the right call. And if the other team beats you... that's football. You win sometimes and you lose sometimes.

You can lose. That's fine. It's failure that you're always trying to avoid. And failure happens when egos don't allow one to learn from mistakes.

My expectation is that this season's Hawks team is not a failure.