Pete Carroll on the Brink

[SoulfishHawk]

Or you could just worry about yourself and stop worrying what other people think? It's no secret that this team looks average, undisciplined, and horribly coached. I'll never give up hope, waste of time. But I'm realistic to what I'm seeing in front of me as well. They have a LOT of work to do. And who said all is well??? It isn't. But this team certainly can turn it around, regardless what you think.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Or you could just worry about yourself and stop worrying what other people think? It's no secret that this team looks average, undisciplined, and horribly coached. I'll never give up hope, waste of time. But I'm realistic to what I'm seeing in front of me as well. They have a LOT of work to do. And who said all is well??? It isn't. But this team certainly can turn it around, regardless what you think.

Or I can have an opinion like everybody else on this board. Just like the poster I replied to that doesnt seem to think change is needed for some reason.

Its great that your one of the most optimistic posters on here, but if your truly being realistic, how do you think they can turn it around when the same issues have been evident for years now and only getting worse? Seriously, what are your expectations when the team has a zero involved ownership, a coach that is behind the times and is rapidly getting worse, a horrific defense, and a division that they play in that has greatly improved while Seattle hasent and in all probability, has actually gotten worse? Just curious how you can envision them turning things around.

As for what I think,,,,,i've thought that this team has been doomed even if they make it the post season for the last 5 years due to the coach and thats been the case spot on. I dont see that pattern changing. How could I or anyone for that matter? How do people still have faith that Pete Carroll can change at this juncture of his career? Baffles me.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. Been plenty angry about this crap show all week. But, I still refuse to ever give up hope. That's just me. Having hope and belief is part of being a fan, I'll take that over the everything sucks outlook. Way too much talent on this team to give up. But, we've been down this road enough times.
Confidence is WAY down, especially with this defense and crap coaching. So far........
For the record, I have lost faith in Pete, period. He has lost the team and they lack discipline. In fact, their blatant refusal to adapt and adjust in game is maddening. Prove me wrong Pete......
Anyway, have a good day. Go Hawks

 

[Sgt. Largent]

How much money would the Seahawks lose longterm if they traded Russell Wilson, and kept Pete?


It's a business.

Well Russell's the #1 draw, #1 in jersey sales, #1 with kids and women as far as most liked player........and most importantly he's the #1 reason we win.

So name the metric, finances, success, brand, etc. Russell IMO is FAR more important to the long term goals and viability of the Seahawks franchise and organization.

 

[AubHawk71]

How much money would the Seahawks lose longterm if they traded Russell Wilson, and kept Pete?


It's a business.

Well Russell's the #1 draw, #1 in jersey sales, #1 with kids and women as far as most liked player........and most importantly he's the #1 reason we win.

So name the metric, finances, success, brand, etc. Russell IMO is FAR more important to the long term goals and viability of the Seahawks franchise and organization.

Financially, it make sense to keep RW. It also makes sense to keep him because he's a legit MVP contender every year, and most likely the best QB the Hawks will ever have.

What does Pete bring to the table? He is obviously past prime, whereas RW has 10 more years of balling out. If it takes a 9-8 to change some minds and change with the times, so be it.

 

[had2bhawk]

How much money would the Seahawks lose longterm if they traded Russell Wilson, and kept Pete?


It's a business.

Well Russell's the #1 draw, #1 in jersey sales, #1 with kids and women as far as most liked player........and most importantly he's the #1 reason we win.

So name the metric, finances, success, brand, etc. Russell IMO is FAR more important to the long term goals and viability of the Seahawks franchise and organization.

I completely agree 100%
Russell will stay until he retires. He is the Seahawk and franchise. This is the team he will partner with and own.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What does Pete bring to the table? He is obviously past prime, whereas RW has 10 more years of balling out. If it takes a 9-8 to change some minds and change with the times, so be it.

I said this to my buddy when we were watching Kirk freaking Cousins dismantle our terrible defense, if our defense stinks what the heck are we keeping Pete for? That's suppose to be Pete's specialty.......defense, and specifically defensive back play.

Obviously this is being simplistic, because Pete brings a lot of things organizationally. Processes, culture, etc.

But yes, when your defensive coach can no longer put together a great, or even good defense? Eh, it's time man.

 

[AubHawk71]

But according to Mark Sanchez, Cousins is a 'Stone. Cold. Killer.'

That's when I muted the TV for the rest of the game.

Related: Whenever broadcasters talk about PC, the only thing they do is reference his age. 70! But looks like a kid out there! Etc. I mean, I have an AARP card, so I'm not hating, but nobody talks about his coaching acumen or anything football related. He's the oldest coach! Yay?

 

[RiverDog]

How much money would the Seahawks lose longterm if they traded Russell Wilson, and kept Pete?


It's a business.

Well Russell's the #1 draw, #1 in jersey sales, #1 with kids and women as far as most liked player........and most importantly he's the #1 reason we win.

So name the metric, finances, success, brand, etc. Russell IMO is FAR more important to the long term goals and viability of the Seahawks franchise and organization.

I completely agree 100%
Russell will stay until he retires. He is the Seahawk and franchise. This is the team he will partner with and own.

It seems that some of you good folks are forgetting about one little thing: Russell Wilson himself.

Suppose the season ends badly and Russell's agent demands a trade. What then? Do we keep him or trade him? If we keep him and he still wants out the following season, do we slap the FT on him?

To me, the answer to those questions is not only no, but hell no! We don't trade Russell unless he wants to be traded, and if he does want to be traded, we don't keep him.

Realistically, the trade/don't trade question is something that is completely up to Russell.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

For an Internet forum we sure have a lot of posters who seem to have intimate knowledge of Jody Allen and her willingness/desire to run this franchise. I personally have never seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe this. She will never be Paul, but she will also never be Jerry Jones…

New owner, new coach, different QB… none of it comes with guarantees. I have watched hot coach’s $h!t the bed time and time again.
Did anyone see that idiot Chargers coach throw the ball twice with 40 seconds left, scoring and leaving Mahomes 37 seconds and a T.O.
Or that genius Shanahan scheme up that sweet prevent…the win defense lulz

How about McVay putting up THREE in the SB…I know I know he has a HOF QB now, that has ZERO playoff wins in 12 years.

For those of you that desperately want the whole organization to change have no fear, that time is coming and then you will have a whole new set of names to complain about every day.

So everthings just fine and dandy in Seahawk land right now right? Stay the course.

I'll never understand fans that think like this when its right there in front of them.

First off can you show were I stated everything is “fine and dandy”. You quoted me and then didn’t even address the things I actually wrote.

I will “never understand “ fans like you who think the grass is always greener on their side of the fence with no actual proof or reasoning. The Hawks are one of the most winningest teams in the league during Pete & John’s tenure…fact. The Hawks have had a HOF Qb and a spot in the playoffs all but one year, that means they have had a chance at the big prize…fact. Only 4 current coaches have multiple SB appearances, getting to and winning a SB is extremely difficult even for great coaches(not named Belicheat).

You have given no citation on the belief that Jody is disinterested/incapable of running the Franchise. Fact of the matter you never give citation to any of your gloom and doom, you are definitely entitled to your opinion but that doesn’t make you a more insightful/knowledgeable fan.

One of the points I was trying to make is that everyone of the Wunderkind HC’s has had their turn shatting the bed. You would be on this site today still complaining if Pete’s team put up THREE points in the SB and yet McVay is god and the Rams have already won the west.

There is a high percentage chance this current team and staff are winding down their tenure and an equally high percentage that the new regime will disappoint you. Me personally, I’m in for the ride and I know that with Russ under center anything is possible.

 

[JustTheTip]

For an Internet forum we sure have a lot of posters who seem to have intimate knowledge of Jody Allen and her willingness/desire to run this franchise. I personally have never seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe this. She will never be Paul, but she will also never be Jerry Jones…

New owner, new coach, different QB… none of it comes with guarantees. I have watched hot coach’s $h!t the bed time and time again.
Did anyone see that idiot Chargers coach throw the ball twice with 40 seconds left, scoring and leaving Mahomes 37 seconds and a T.O.
Or that genius Shanahan scheme up that sweet prevent…the win defense lulz

How about McVay putting up THREE in the SB…I know I know he has a HOF QB now, that has ZERO playoff wins in 12 years.

For those of you that desperately want the whole organization to change have no fear, that time is coming and then you will have a whole new set of names to complain about every day.

So everthings just fine and dandy in Seahawk land right now right? Stay the course.

I'll never understand fans that think like this when its right there in front of them.

The point that is being missed is that people don't want the whole organization to change, they want what appears to be a major issue resolved while there is still some semblance of a winning culture here. That culture is far more important than the man who built it. Seattle sports sucks in its sentimentality.

People are asking why Gordon and Sherman didn't sign here. I think it is likely because players know the culture is changing.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The point that is being missed is that people don't want the whole organization to change, they want what appears to be a major issue resolved while there is still some semblance of a winning culture here. That culture is far more important than the man who built it. Seattle sports sucks in its sentimentality.

People are asking why Gordon and Sherman didn't sign here. I think it is likely because players know the culture is changing.

You're insinuating that if Pete and or Pete/John leave, the "winning culture" remains.

Which is not true, because they created the winning culture. So it's entirely possible that if they leave and whoever replaces them stinks, then we're back to pre-Holmgren Hawk culture of just another mediocre franchise in south Alaska that no one pays attention to.

This is especially true if Jody Allen is the apathetic owner most people think she is and is just fine with mediocrity as long as the equity of her football team continues to appreciate.

 

[LTH]

For an Internet forum we sure have a lot of posters who seem to have intimate knowledge of Jody Allen and her willingness/desire to run this franchise. I personally have never seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe this. She will never be Paul, but she will also never be Jerry Jones…

New owner, new coach, different QB… none of it comes with guarantees. I have watched hot coach’s $h!t the bed time and time again.
Did anyone see that idiot Chargers coach throw the ball twice with 40 seconds left, scoring and leaving Mahomes 37 seconds and a T.O.
Or that genius Shanahan scheme up that sweet prevent…the win defense lulz

How about McVay putting up THREE in the SB…I know I know he has a HOF QB now, that has ZERO playoff wins in 12 years.

For those of you that desperately want the whole organization to change have no fear, that time is coming and then you will have a whole new set of names to complain about every day.

So everthings just fine and dandy in Seahawk land right now right? Stay the course.

I'll never understand fans that think like this when its right there in front of them.

The point that is being missed is that people don't want the whole organization to change, they want what appears to be a major issue resolved while there is still some semblance of a winning culture here. That culture is far more important than the man who built it. Seattle sports sucks in its sentimentality.

People are asking why Gordon and Sherman didn't sign here. I think it is likely because players know the culture is changing.

Im curious to know why you think there is a winning culture here?

 

[TwistedHusky]

What Pete did is make us relevant.

Was that primarily Pete, or people beneath him, or JS, or even Wilson? Nobody knows but the impetus seemed to be Pete.

And Pete rebuilt the organization so it executed and delivered on his plan. It worked. We won and went the to SB twice, winning one.

Getting rid of Pete means we could go back to what we were. However, most of 'what we were' was a function of the owner.

So you could argue that the person that REALLY made us relevant, and demanded success was Paul.

Paul being gone meant there was nobody to check Pete. And Pete, with only one way to win in his head, steadfastly plodded forward clinging to his one way to win even though it no longer worked.

The rest is the slow drop to mediocrity and now the drop to something worse.

Getting rid of Pete is a risk, but only temporarily. If we could find a way to keep Pete's upside and somehow offset his downsides - it would be amazing - especially with Wilson at the helm. But we can't.

And we might not be able to even keep Wilson unless we get rid of Pete.

Wilson under another coach has the POTENTIAL to be great. But it isn't assured.

What we can be assured of is that the ceiling is going to be the wildcard. And Wilson is not okay with that, nor does he believe the current system allows him to be better than that.

For a bit, the counterargument was - well the ceiling is lower than we want but the floor is pretty solid. With the bottom dropping out of the defense, Ken Norton-style, the floor is dropping out too. So the reasons to keep Pete are getting less and less.

 

[chris98251]

What Pete did is make us relevant.

Was that primarily Pete, or people beneath him, or JS, or even Wilson? Nobody knows but the impetus seemed to be Pete.

And Pete rebuilt the organization so it executed and delivered on his plan. It worked. We won and went the to SB twice, winning one.

Getting rid of Pete means we could go back to what we were. However, most of 'what we were' was a function of the owner.

So you could argue that the person that REALLY made us relevant, and demanded success was Paul.

Paul being gone meant there was nobody to check Pete. And Pete, with only one way to win in his head, steadfastly plodded forward clinging to his one way to win even though it no longer worked.

The rest is the slow drop to mediocrity and now the drop to something worse.

Getting rid of Pete is a risk, but only temporarily. If we could find a way to keep Pete's upside and somehow offset his downsides - it would be amazing - especially with Wilson at the helm. But we can't.

And we might not be able to even keep Wilson unless we get rid of Pete.

Wilson under another coach has the POTENTIAL to be great. But it isn't assured.

What we can be assured of is that the ceiling is going to be the wildcard. And Wilson is not okay with that, nor does he believe the current system allows him to be better than that.

For a bit, the counterargument was - well the ceiling is lower than we want but the floor is pretty solid. With the bottom dropping out of the defense, Ken Norton-style, the floor is dropping out too. So the reasons to keep Pete are getting less and less.

Holmgren made us relevant, Mora and mostly Ruskell destroyed that, Pete was brought in to stop the slide and put us back in the thick of things which he did. A lot of this was due to Paul not wanting to be seen as uninvolved, he sent Tod down to USC and the deal ws done almost before the story broke we were looking at him.

 

[JustTheTip]

The point that is being missed is that people don't want the whole organization to change, they want what appears to be a major issue resolved while there is still some semblance of a winning culture here. That culture is far more important than the man who built it. Seattle sports sucks in its sentimentality.

People are asking why Gordon and Sherman didn't sign here. I think it is likely because players know the culture is changing.

You're insinuating that if Pete and or Pete/John leave, the "winning culture" remains.

Which is not true, because they created the winning culture. So it's entirely possible that if they leave and whoever replaces them stinks, then we're back to pre-Holmgren Hawk culture of just another mediocre franchise in south Alaska that no one pays attention to.

This is especially true if Jody Allen is the apathetic owner most people think she is and is just fine with mediocrity as long as the equity of her football team continues to appreciate.

Has a better chance of remaining than if it is allowed to deteriorate entirely. It seems pretty obvious to me right now that it is deteriorating. And just because they leave doesn't mean the winning culture goes with them. Greenbay, for example, has survived multiple changes in QB, coach and front office over the last 3 decades while maintaining a winning culture.

 

[LTH]

What Pete did is make us relevant.

Was that primarily Pete, or people beneath him, or JS, or even Wilson? Nobody knows but the impetus seemed to be Pete.

And Pete rebuilt the organization so it executed and delivered on his plan. It worked. We won and went the to SB twice, winning one.

Getting rid of Pete means we could go back to what we were. However, most of 'what we were' was a function of the owner.

So you could argue that the person that REALLY made us relevant, and demanded success was Paul.

Paul being gone meant there was nobody to check Pete. And Pete, with only one way to win in his head, steadfastly plodded forward clinging to his one way to win even though it no longer worked.

The rest is the slow drop to mediocrity and now the drop to something worse.

Getting rid of Pete is a risk, but only temporarily. If we could find a way to keep Pete's upside and somehow offset his downsides - it would be amazing - especially with Wilson at the helm. But we can't.

And we might not be able to even keep Wilson unless we get rid of Pete.

Wilson under another coach has the POTENTIAL to be great. But it isn't assured.

What we can be assured of is that the ceiling is going to be the wildcard. And Wilson is not okay with that, nor does he believe the current system allows him to be better than that.

For a bit, the counterargument was - well the ceiling is lower than we want but the floor is pretty solid. With the bottom dropping out of the defense, Ken Norton-style, the floor is dropping out too. So the reasons to keep Pete are getting less and less.

I would agree that PA made this team relevant. When They hired Carroll and I think it was a combination of Vulcan and Tod Leiweke that saw something special in Carroll as they were suiting Mike Holmgren and Holmgren left over more money in Cleveland as well as answering only to the owner which was something the Seahawks wouldn't give him because apparently Holmgren was a pain in the ass and I don't think PA liked him very much ( my opinion from what I've heard).

It is Pete's organization he is the one who put all the pieces together and if you look at who works for the Seahawks its very apparent that Pete's finger prints are all over it in several different ways with all the sports psychologists ETC...

But why do people think that the players and coaches are the only part of an organization that makes success? This is a MAJOR misconception. I could talk for an hour on why this is a special organization.

Fans dont understand Pete and what he does... they just don't I have tried to spell it out but cant make people understand so I stopped trying


LTH

 

[Flyingsquad23]

When I read on this site that people want…Jodie to sell, John gone, Pete gone, Russ gone I start to think “ they want the whole organization to change”. It is literally what people on this site are saying.

My opinion, Jody will not sell. It would be foolish by all measures. And just think about the very small minority of people in this world who could drop 3+ billion and ask yourself…if you like the sound of the Amazon Hawks

Pete is without doubt in the swan song days but he has the clout to go out his way. History has shown some go easy and some get the lights turned off on them. We will see what Pete chooses. I could see a scenario where he assumes a President of operations or similar title and then working with JS to find his replacement.

And as far as Russ goes, even the greatest leave. I hope that’s not anytime soon but either way he will forever be a Seahawk legend.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The point that is being missed is that people don't want the whole organization to change, they want what appears to be a major issue resolved while there is still some semblance of a winning culture here. That culture is far more important than the man who built it. Seattle sports sucks in its sentimentality.

People are asking why Gordon and Sherman didn't sign here. I think it is likely because players know the culture is changing.

You're insinuating that if Pete and or Pete/John leave, the "winning culture" remains.

Which is not true, because they created the winning culture. So it's entirely possible that if they leave and whoever replaces them stinks, then we're back to pre-Holmgren Hawk culture of just another mediocre franchise in south Alaska that no one pays attention to.

This is especially true if Jody Allen is the apathetic owner most people think she is and is just fine with mediocrity as long as the equity of her football team continues to appreciate.

Has a better chance of remaining than if it is allowed to deteriorate entirely. It seems pretty obvious to me right now that it is deteriorating. And just because they leave doesn't mean the winning culture goes with them. Greenbay, for example, has survived multiple changes in QB, coach and front office over the last 3 decades while maintaining a winning culture.

I'm not disagreeing that we need to make a coaching change, I'm disagreeing that the winning culture stays if he leaves.

That's no guarantee, and in fact it's probably not likely if John and Russell also leave. Could get ugly without another owner who's super passionate about winning like Paul was.

If given my perfect scenario? John and Russell stay, Pete goes and we find a younger more dynamic head coach.

 

[LTH]

When I read on this site that people want…Jodie to sell, John gone, Pete gone, Russ gone I start to think “ they want the whole organization to change”. It is literally what people on this site are saying.

My opinion, Jody will not sell. It would be foolish by all measures. And just think about the very small minority of people in this world who could drop 3+ billion and ask yourself…if you like the sound of the Amazon Hawks

Pete is without doubt in the swan song days but he has the clout to go out his way. History has shown some go easy and some get the lights turned off on them. We will see what Pete chooses. I could see a scenario where he assumes a President of operations or similar title and then working with JS to find his replacement.

And as far as Russ goes, even the greatest leave. I hope that’s not anytime soon but either way he will forever be a Seahawk legend.

Dude the team is 1-2... everybody is freaking out? what does that say? Pete's done? I would put down money this thing turns around... Its going to turn around even if they go 1-4.. Pete is a pro at working through adversity. he is a pro at teaching people to work through adversity. I don't know how they are going to do it but they will because that's what they do. Its almost hard to read this board sometimes because people don't understand the process of a Carroll team.. they just get caught up in this storm of emotion even if they lose 1 game... I can't remember when the Hawks lost 2 in a row maybe last year but when was the last time this team lost 3 in a row? I'm not sure it's happened with Pete Carroll at the helm...

Blaw blaw blaw


Its going to work out they just need to make some adjustments...



LTH