Possible contender?

[kf3339]

Sign Geno Atkins or Kawann Short. This would significantly upgrade the interior DL and create pressure from there. That will make the secondary better. They have improved the edges but they needed help on interior when Reed was here, even more so now that he's gone. Woods is a solid addition but he's not enough (as pass rush is not his strength).

^ This would be my thought as well. At the right price either would be a positive in our DT rotation. :2thumbs:

 

[kf3339]

Sherman would be the closest thing, assuming his play doesn't decline this upcoming season. Need another guy at corner.

I would like to see Sherman back as well. A savy veteran who knows our system can still contribute with more than just his play. His presence, swagger and confidence would be very helpful with our younger DB's like a coach on the field. He needs to come back and retire as a Seahawk. I hope this happens.

 

[TwistedHusky]

A contender is a team that could contend for the title. By definition.

It is not a team with a great regular-season record, with tons of wins against great teams in the regular season that will never win anything in the playoffs. That was the Atlanta Hawks, and now the Seattle Seahawks since our SB loss.

Carroll will never understand that it is better to have a worse record going into the playoffs and be a team better prepared to do well in the playoffs vs the opposite. So, with Carroll's proclivities, it will be hard for one player to make a difference.

Sherman is not going to be that player. Of the guys available, Atkins or Short might help. But best chance would be Clowney, because he can almost win one playoff game for you near by himself. Not sure the others available can.

Our record is going to be inflated playing against weaker teams this year. But going into the playoffs that will hardly matter once we start playing good teams. It will be fun while it lasts though. But until this team can actually win a divisional playoff game, and it isn't clear that Carroll is even capable of this anymore, we are not contenders.

It would not matter if we were 16-0 at some point (unlikely to happen with the Rams on our schedule anyway), we still are not contenders when we lose to whatever divisional opponent we end up against.

Can this team contend for a SB and have a realistic chance of going? Probably not. Because the way we like to play does not work in the playoffs, even if it works in the regular season.

So you have to have wildcards. Wildcards are guys like Kam, Adams, Clowney, etc. These are the guys that can tilt the field no matter how bad your gameplan. Sherman in his prime was a wildcard but I don't think he is anymore.

 

[chris98251]

A contender is a team that could contend for the title. By definition.

It is not a team with a great regular-season record, with tons of wins against great teams in the regular season that will never win anything in the playoffs. That was the Atlanta Hawks, and now the Seattle Seahawks since our SB loss.

Carroll will never understand that it is better to have a worse record going into the playoffs and be a team better prepared to do well in the playoffs vs the opposite. So, with Carroll's proclivities, it will be hard for one player to make a difference.

Sherman is not going to be that player. Of the guys available, Atkins or Short might help. But best chance would be Clowney, because he can almost win one playoff game for you near by himself. Not sure the others available can.

Our record is going to be inflated playing against weaker teams this year. But going into the playoffs that will hardly matter once we start playing good teams. It will be fun while it lasts though. But until this team can actually win a divisional playoff game, and it isn't clear that Carroll is even capable of this anymore, we are not contenders.

It would not matter if we were 16-0 at some point (unlikely to happen with the Rams on our schedule anyway), we still are not contenders when we lose to whatever divisional opponent we end up against.

Can this team contend for a SB and have a realistic chance of going? Probably not. Because the way we like to play does not work in the playoffs, even if it works in the regular season.

So you have to have wildcards. Wildcards are guys like Kam, Adams, Clowney, etc. These are the guys that can tilt the field no matter how bad your gameplan. Sherman in his prime was a wildcard but I don't think he is anymore.

I don't think Clowney is either at this stage, agree with Sherman, he is more a situational player coach now, Clowney if sound can play, but he is rarely sound, he is just inbetween the next IR assignment.

 

[A-Dog]

Clowney is the only real answer here. And he would definitely fill a need - at SAM.

I keep bringing this up - the Seahawks are running Bear fronts as a base defense now. The SAM is right up on the line in a wide-9. The SAM ideally can a) consistently hold the edge, especially against TEs, b) be a pass rush threat, and c) cover, especially in the flat. They wanted Bruce Irvin for the role because he has the size, athleticism, and rush ability. KJ ended up playing very well there, but he’s not a pass rusher. Clowney could play the SAM on mixed downs, and slide inside to 3-tech on passing downs. Our front-7/8 would be dominant.

CB, C, and WR are also needs but in FA Clowney is the real difference maker still out there.

 

[Hawkpower]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

 

[John63]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

Yes with Wilson his playoff record is right up there. Without its under .500

 

[pinksheets]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

Yes with Wilson his playoff record is right up there. Without its under .500

You can do this many ways. What's Wilson's playoff record without the LOB?

 

[chris98251]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

Yes but those hits are mostly in a three year period, what has happened the other 7 years.

 

[notyou]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Coryell?

 

[pittpnthrs]

People still being fooled by that 12-4 record.

The Seahawks have primarily been between 10-6 and 13-3 under Russ/Pete

Thats not being fooled. 12 wins wasnt a fluke. This is a double digit win team, and double digit win teams are contenders.

Now are they favorites? Probably not currently unless they can show they can get over their recent playoff struggles

But contenders? Absolutely

There is such a thing as the eye test. I watched every single game Seattle played last season and had no preconceived notions that they would do anything in the playoffs. Thinking otherwise is being fooled by their regular season record. They played an extremely easy schedule and barely beat anybody over .500. They are pretenders, not contenders.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

Come on, you should be better than this. 2013 and 2014 Seattle had a legendary defense that was better than everybody else talent wise. There were no adjustments being made with them. None were needed. 2015 might be the best example ever of Pete not being able to adjust. After barely squeaking by the Vikings due to a missed chip shot of a field goal, Seattle then faced the Panthers and proceeded to take the entire first half off basically losing the game there. If Rivera hadent taken his foot off the gas in the second half, that game would probably be the ugliest loss of Carrolls career.

Its been 7 years now of poor playoff performances and it doesnt look like anything is going to change anytime soon.

 

[BASF]

2015 might be the best example ever of Pete not being able to adjust. After barely squeaking by the Vikings due to a missed chip shot of a field goal, Seattle then faced the Panthers and proceeded to take the entire first half off basically losing the game there. If Rivera hadent taken his foot off the gas in the second half, that game would probably be the ugliest loss of Carrolls career.

A very interesting takeaway from this game.

Carroll is to blame for the footing problems that we had. As the one in charge of the organization, he hired the equipment manager that dropped the ball on the spikes that cost us the ability to plant and cut normally on bad field conditions.

Carroll is responsible for signing off on the offensive line signings in the offseason that were being beaten horribly, though expecting a journeyman backup center to handle Short and Lotulelei was our death sentence in that game (maybe he could have traded for a starting center after Nowak was injured, but what do we give up for a starting center in season when the team we are trading for can see that we are desperate).

Carroll was responsible for bringing back Darrell Bevell whose play calls were not very good.

Carroll was not responsible for either of the interceptions that Wilson gifted the Panthers.

Carroll was not responsible for the injury to Okung that created the second interception.

Carroll was not responsible for the best defense in the NFL finally having an offensive coordinator that came up with a game plan that was tailor made to beat that defense.

Carroll was not responsible for the defense not getting pressure on Newton.

Carroll could have curbed the defensive players pointing fingers on the sideline during the game, but we know now that a lot of those defensive players blamed Carroll for the Super Bowl loss and probably would not have listened to him.

Carroll was not responsible for the Panthers being a better team that season.

 

[John63]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

Yes with Wilson his playoff record is right up there. Without its under .500

You can do this many ways. What's Wilson's playoff record without the LOB?

Better than PCs without the LOB. Which is my point.

FYI he had the LOB and Lynch in 2011 no playoffs.

Wilson comes playoffs every year but 1 and even the years were there was no Lynch or LOB.

 

[Jville]

If there were a separate comment section like we see in blogs, the following would surely be included ...
..............................................................................................................................................................................


Did you read the post that resorted to using the old "eyeball test" ploy? Who buys into that one anymore? Optimists, Pessimists and Defeatist all see the world thru different lenses and not surprisingly arrive at different outlooks.


Then there is a denial of success statement that reads "People still being fooled by that 12-4 record" :rofl: .... Priceless

Forum posts may not be as cute as the old Art Linkletter Show ..... but many often say the darndest things. Comic Relief.

 

[JayhawkMike]

3 wins in 6 years in the playoffs means we are not contenders under PC no matter who is on our team. PC needs to so overtalent the opposition for his stupid game plans to work and that’s not us anymore. It is all about the playoffs and for 6 straight years there PC is more or less a complete failure.

 

[Jville]

Seems like there is a conflict in assumed definitions at work in this thread.

And, maybe a lack of distinction between the competitive season and the sudden death tournament that comes after completion of the season.

Some views may even be devoid of any appreciation or joy in watching player development during the season. As well as a blindness to team communications developing over the course of a season.

 

[chris98251]

The teams Knox coached were almost always contenders, the teams that Coryell coached were almost always contenders. Knox does what Pete does, turtle shells in the playoffs. Coryell's teams rarely had a defense that could make a team one dimensional and would always try to out score them. Both coaches won a lot of regular season games and ended up in the playoffs. Once there Other playoff teams could take away something and the two coches either would not or could not make the adjustments needed. Knox trusting his QB and WR's when the run was taken away and Coryell giving up some of the all stars on offense for a defense to compete in the Playoffs.

You could add Bud Grant as well, he had great defenses and usually a good passing game with Tarkenton, Foreman was his Back, he was a great receiver as well, but not a back that could pound for yards when needed most.

Vikings came close like 5 times, Bills just could not get it done by bad luck with Kickers to win games, I didn't add them.

Coryell?

You obviously don't remember or were born when he coached the Cardinals with Jim Hart and Terry Metcalf, Mel Gray and then the Chargers with more Pro Bowlers then can remember to list, Dan Fouts, John Jefferson, Kellen Winslow to name a few.

 

[chris98251]

If there were a separate comment section like we see in blogs, the following would surely be included ...
..............................................................................................................................................................................


Did you read the post that resorted to using the old "eyeball test" ploy? Who buys into that one anymore? Optimists, Pessimists and Defeatist all see the world thru different lenses and not surprisingly arrive at different outlooks.


Then there is a denial of success statement that reads "People still being fooled by that 12-4 record" :rofl: .... Priceless

Forum posts may not be as cute as the old Art Linkletter Show ..... but many often say the darndest things. Comic Relief.

Lets see, Analytics, Cleveland tried that and it got a whole staff fired and front office reshuffle.

Oakland A's used it and had some success, but how many world series did they have?

Boston then tried it and had some success also, but hey they are not winners every year either.

Stats are a reference to the success of the system, the Coaches still put players in them, the players have to perform to that system, My eyeballs can see if they are not, my eyeballs can see that if a team takes away the running game you should be passing, my eyes see that if you go two deep you should run and use intermediate routes.

Your analytics just show player failure.

 

[pinksheets]

Pete can't make adjustments or win in the playoffs?

Man 2013/2014/2015 must have been a replacement coach who looked just like him then.

You guys do realize Pete's playoff record is right there with almost all of his peers right?

You guys are better than this. You're good fans who know better than to overreact to the last few seasons with oversweeping generalizations to try and hammer home a narrative.

Yes with Wilson his playoff record is right up there. Without its under .500

You can do this many ways. What's Wilson's playoff record without the LOB?

Better than PCs without the LOB. Which is my point.

FYI he had the LOB and Lynch in 2011 no playoffs.

Wilson comes playoffs every year but 1 and even the years were there was no Lynch or LOB.

Hasn't done anything of meaning without them in the playoffs, though.

The point is - this is a dumb line of critique. "A head coach will struggle to consistently win in the playoffs without a decent or better qb" - wow, intriguing. Winning in the playoffs is hard to do without a lot of things coming together. Pete and Russ both need more than they can offer on their own individually.