Possible contender?

[BASF]

You guys have glommed on to Pete as the villain way too much. He has overridden play calls that he does not agree with. The only reason we know is because he admits when he fails at it. He doesn't do the post game interview and brag about how he got it right. Maybe he has pulled out victories for us many times, but gives the credit to his players.

The he won't change thing is weird given the scheme changes we have gone through including last year when Wilson cost us wins (obviously early in the season he got us wins with throwing it everywhere, but once the defense figured out the scheme changes to be effective, Wilson literally cost us games). A poor coach shrugs his shoulders and allows his star to continue to cost the team wins and maybe we miss the playoffs entirely.

 

[John63]

You guys have glommed on to Pete as the villain way too much. He has overridden play calls that he does not agree with. The only reason we know is because he admits when he fails at it. He doesn't do the post game interview and brag about how he got it right. Maybe he has pulled out victories for us many times, but gives the credit to his players.

The he won't change thing is weird given the scheme changes we have gone through including last year when Wilson cost us wins (obviously early in the season he got us wins with throwing it everywhere, but once the defense figured out the scheme changes to be effective, Wilson literally cost us games). A poor coach shrugs his shoulders and allows his star to continue to cost the team wins and maybe we miss the playoffs entirely.

Or a good coach gets with his OC and Qb and figure out a way to get back on track with what was working as opposed to going back to same old same old the we know does not work. Instead, PC alienates his QB, pisses off several other offensive players and then fires his OC.

Lets remember 2 different OCs and with exception of that start of this season same crap, predictable offense and fyi his offense was like that in his other NFL stints.

Also, when his run game craps the bed and costs us games his answer run more. When the pass game struggles his answer not fix it, not throw more but run more.

So yeah hate to tell you the biggest issue is PC

reality since PC has been here we have had several oline coaches, oline still sucks
Several OCs offense can be dynamic but when they hit a bump PC reverts to form and gets profitable and runs.

Guess what it was like that in PC other NFL jobs as well.

 

[TwistedHusky]

With an effective gameday coach, Wilson would win more games. With a great coach, he could be even better than he is with a system that facilitated his greatness not asked him to work outside the system to succeed.

Carroll isn't a villain until he drives off Wilson, he is the defensive equivalent of a Mike McCarthy.

He is a hindrance to winning our own team has to overcome though. He builds great rosters, but then uses them in ways that keeps them from being as successful as they could be without him.

Going into games with Carroll as your coach is like running a race while wearing ankle weights and purposely waiting for a second or two after the other runners race off to bother running at all. You can still win games, but you are going to lose games you could have won with almost anyone else - because he was holding you back.

He is old, dead weight, and more disadvantage than benefit right now. Not a villain yet (we still have Wilson), but certainly a net negative as a gameday coach, strategist, and tactician.

The only thing that can bridge that gap is having great players to overcome all his problems.

Yet another reason we had to have Adams and need a type like Clowney to have any shot at doing anything in the playoffs.

 

[chris98251]

Safe, conservative on offense for 3 quarters.

Far too broad. That could describe the offense Brady runs with his quick passes which is as far from what we run as you can get.

Except Brady uses the middle of the field, that's not safe according to Pete, to many chances of a tip for a interception or a missed catch that bounces up for an interception.

Can you provide a link to the interview where Carroll said that please.

No, it has been said several times over the years that tip balls happen for turnovers, why most of Russells passes are deep going towards the sidelines or over the receiver and also why out routes away from the defender are the mainstays.

You rarely see inside break passes, usually during catch up time.

Go back and watch TJack play, same type of routes were the primary routes.

 

[BASF]

Far too broad. That could describe the offense Brady runs with his quick passes which is as far from what we run as you can get.

Except Brady uses the middle of the field, that's not safe according to Pete, to many chances of a tip for a interception or a missed catch that bounces up for an interception.

Can you provide a link to the interview where Carroll said that please.

No, it has been said several times over the years that tip balls happen for turnovers, why most of Russells passes are deep going towards the sidelines or over the receiver and also why out routes away from the defender are the mainstays.

You rarely see inside break passes, usually during catch up time.

Go back and watch TJack play, same type of routes were the primary routes.

No evidence, just supposition.

 

[BASF]

Also, when his run game craps the bed and costs us games his answer run more. When the pass game struggles his answer not fix it, not throw more but run more.

You must not actually watch football games. Go back and watch the last half of the season and tell me that he ran more. Or just look at the box scores. The only game that is remotely as you are describing is when we ran the clock out against the Jets. Intellectual dishonesty again.

 

[John63]

Also, when his run game craps the bed and costs us games his answer run more. When the pass game struggles his answer not fix it, not throw more but run more.

You must not actually watch football games. Go back and watch the last half of the season and tell me that he ran more. Or just look at the box scores. The only game that is remotely as you are describing is when we ran the clock out against the Jets. Intellectual dishonesty again.

Ahh actually I do watch the games every game in fact and rewatch. If you look u will find first 8 games 193 rush attempts. 2nd half 218 so yeah we ran more. More over 1st 8 games 65% of runs 2nd half. 2nd 8 65% 1st half. Also most pass attempts in 2nd half of season in 2nd half with over 70% of those being in the 4th qtr of games we were behind in.

So first games we ran after we had leads. 2nd 8 we ran until we had no choice but to pass, which is the PC special. Like said when run game struggles PCs answer run more, pass game struggles PCs answer run more.

That did hopefully I will change and he will keep his nose out of the offense .

 

[BASF]

Also, when his run game craps the bed and costs us games his answer run more. When the pass game struggles his answer not fix it, not throw more but run more.

You must not actually watch football games. Go back and watch the last half of the season and tell me that he ran more. Or just look at the box scores. The only game that is remotely as you are describing is when we ran the clock out against the Jets. Intellectual dishonesty again.

Ahh actually I do watch the games every game in fact and rewatch. If you look u will find first 8 games 193 rush attempts. 2nd half 218 so yeah we ran more. More over 1st 8 games 65% of runs 2nd half. 2nd 8 65% 1st half. Also most pass attempts in 2nd half of season in 2nd half with over 70% of those being in the 4th qtr of games we were behind in.

So first games we ran after we had leads. 2nd 8 we ran until we had no choice but to pass, which is the PC special. Like said when run game struggles PCs answer run more, pass game struggles PCs answer run more.

That did hopefully I will change and he will keep his nose out of the offense .

Your rushing attempts are wrong. Looking at the stat sheet does not differentiate runs that were a break down of a pass attempt and actual rushing attempts. Here is the actual rushing attempts from last season by your own split: First eight games was 161 and the second eight games was 194. Pretty strong split there and it illustrates your point. Or does it?

Taking large chunks of season trying to illustrate one thing without taking other factors into account is once again intellectually dishonest. Here is the more important thing that happened that most people do not put enough attention on, the quality of defenses we faced in the first eight were pretty poor. Let us eliminate the 49ers and Cardinals since they are common opponents in both halves of the season. What we have left is the Patriots with the eighth ranked pass defense, but they were only twenty-seventh in sacks. That is not exactly something that inspires a change in offensive approach. The Dolphins did finish eleventh in sacks, but their pass defense ranked a fairly poor twenty-third. Those two opponents were the ones that had the most balanced rush attempts and pass attempts in the first eight games. Strange how that would happen.

The second half of the season saw much better defenses with much better pass rushes. Maybe you have heard of the strategy of slowing down a pass rush by running the football so they can't just tee off on your QB? Again eliminating the Niners and Cards, the worst defense we faced was the Jets and of course we waxed them. The next worst pass rush we faced was the Giants who finished just one sack behind the best pass rush we faced in the first eight games. So, facing better pass rushes and better pass defenses our coach did the intelligent thing and dialed up more rushing attempts.

What it actually got us was victories. The truth is the first eight games is not what most of the Seahawks fans talk about as Pete allowing Wilson to cook, it was the first nine. After that Pete cut Wilson and the offense off at the knees as some have lamented. But those last seven games we were 6-1. Facing much better defenses, with home field advantage within our grasp, Carroll went with a more balanced attack in most of them and it got us wins. The two games that Carroll did not dial up a more balanced attack and put the game directly in Wilson's passing hands was the first Rams game and the Giants game. Those two game totals were thirty rushing attempts and ninety-four pass attempts. Sure looks like letting Russ cook in those two games. Both were losses, including an embarrassing loss to the Giants whom everyone just assumed we would laugh out of our building.

So, if we break this down, the two more balanced of the first eight games we were undefeated. Then we had a balanced attack in all but two of the second eight games and were undefeated in those. Letting Russ cook with a pass happy offense netted us a 4-4 record. 8-0 with a balanced attack is far better than a 4-4 let Russ cook record. So, why do Seahawks fans complain about more rushing attempts? Could it be that they are more interested in Wilson's numbers as fantasy football fans? Could it be that they are more interested in looking better as they win instead of just actually winning?

 

[KiwiHawk]

So, if we break this down, the two more balanced of the first eight games we were undefeated. Then we had a balanced attack in all but two of the second eight games and were undefeated in those. Letting Russ cook with a pass happy offense netted us a 4-4 record. 8-0 with a balanced attack is far better than a 4-4 let Russ cook record. So, why do Seahawks fans complain about more rushing attempts? Could it be that they are more interested in Wilson's numbers as fantasy football fans? Could it be that they are more interested in looking better as they win instead of just actually winning?

The real reason is they have an agenda against Pete Carroll, who makes himself an easy target by accepting responsibility for everything that happens on the team. If his OC wasn't up to the task of making a more passing-aggressive offense work, he publicly took the blame for it because he's the Head Coach and President of the team and the buck stops with him.

However, Carroll is also quick to praise his guys when things go well, and not take the spotlight for himself. You can't teach positivity and personal responsibility, and then turn around taking the credit for the good and throwing coordinators under the bus. You have to practice what you preach.

Average fans only hear Pete taking the blame so they assume it's all his fault and he has his fingers in everything on the team that doesn't work, and it's someone else's credit when things DO work.

We know Carroll made the ultimate call to open up the offense, and while we haven't heard Carroll ever blame Schottenheimer for its later failure, we can conjecture that Carroll most likely did pull back the reins when it wasn't working, and we have as facts that Carroll fired Schottenheimer and hired a more creative, modern offensive coordinator in Waldron.

As much as people want to blame Carroll and call him clueless, the facts of the matter speak to a man who changed the offensive philosophy of the team to better suit his personnel, discovered that his coordinator wasn't the guy to implement that change, and replaced him. In other words, he did exactly what the fans want done. They just need to get over blaming him for everything and see how this new direction plays out on the field.

 

[Tinamedina]

When pete Carroll retires.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, winning all the time is so miserable :?
Someone coming in claiming that I'm ok with just making the playoffs (which I'm not) in 3....2....1...…

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah, winning all the time is so miserable :?
Someone coming in claiming that I'm ok with just making the playoffs (which I'm not) in 3....2....1...…

What are they winning though? You bring up the playoffs, so the serious question is, what are you so happy about with the current direction of this team? They havent been real contenders for 6 years now and they wont be again next season (more than likely even less so). I guess the question is, do you only care about regular season success, because thats all you are going to get? If so, this is your team and I understand your jubilation. Some of us would like more than that or a change in the current trend which isnt going to happen with the current make up.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Did I say I'm happy or satisfied? No, I didn't. Thus the 3..2...1
I expect more from the team. But I'm also not going to whine and moan like the they suck.
And yet AGAIN you are assuming I'm happy with just winning in the regular season. Anyone who actually knows me would laugh at that notion. I get plenty pi**ed off after every loss, especially playoffs.
But that does NOT just mean that they have no shot in 2021. Fan how you want, I just don't get the doom and gloom.
Not that it matters.

Predictable response, as always on dot negative.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yeah, winning all the time is so miserable :?
Someone coming in claiming that I'm ok with just making the playoffs (which I'm not) in 3....2....1...…

What are they winning though? You bring up the playoffs, so the serious question is, what are you so happy about with the current direction of this team? They havent been real contenders for 6 years now and they wont be again next season (more than likely even less so). I guess the question is, do you only care about regular season success, because thats all you are going to get? If so, this is your team and I understand your jubilation. Some of us would like more than that or a change in the current trend which isnt going to happen with the current make up.

I love how Soulfish literally predicted the strawman response in the eventual reply he'd get, yet you still were more than happy to oblige.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Consistency!
Oh well, we all love the Hawks.
I'm taking a break.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Consistency!
Oh well, we all love the Hawks.
I'm taking a break.

Probably a good idea. Season can't get here soon enough, we'll be back on the same side then for the most part. :irishdrinkers:

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah, winning all the time is so miserable :?
Someone coming in claiming that I'm ok with just making the playoffs (which I'm not) in 3....2....1...…

What are they winning though? You bring up the playoffs, so the serious question is, what are you so happy about with the current direction of this team? They havent been real contenders for 6 years now and they wont be again next season (more than likely even less so). I guess the question is, do you only care about regular season success, because thats all you are going to get? If so, this is your team and I understand your jubilation. Some of us would like more than that or a change in the current trend which isnt going to happen with the current make up.

I love how Soulfish literally predicted the strawman response in the eventual reply he'd get, yet you still were more than happy to oblige.

Because he invited it. From his post, he appears to be perfectly content with the WINNING the team is doing. What winning? In the last 6 years, all they have accomplished is merely making it to the playoffs. Once there, they get beat in the early rounds. The reason for the post season losses is what escapes him, like a ton of other people on this forum. Carroll gets outcoached in the playoffs to the extent that it should be obvious to all. Last season against the Rams was the biggest example yet. The Rams came into the game with a half of a QB and their best defensive player probably at 50%. Pete brought the team in with pretty much the exact same game plan as they had just two weeks before when they played. Guess who didnt and was more prepared? McVay. Its been a trend for years now, but the most embarrassing point is that Pete couldnt comprehend how they lost. He flat out just didnt understand and admitted so in his presser. This has been going for years now and fans are still oblivious to it. Many are content with it and I just cant understand why. I feel sorry for the fans that think it will somehow be different in the future when it clearly wont.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Clowney is gone at this point so the answer is no. We aren't even close to being a contender.

Not no shot, but probably a less than 5% chance.

Weirdly, Seahawk fans have to consider the Browns lucky now because they have a better coach than we do.

 

[Tinamedina]

Yeah, winning all the time is so miserable :?
Someone coming in claiming that I'm ok with just making the playoffs (which I'm not) in 3....2....1...…

What are they winning though? You bring up the playoffs, so the serious question is, what are you so happy about with the current direction of this team? They havent been real contenders for 6 years now and they wont be again next season (more than likely even less so). I guess the question is, do you only care about regular season success, because thats all you are going to get? If so, this is your team and I understand your jubilation. Some of us would like more than that or a change in the current trend which isnt going to happen with the current make up.

I love how Soulfish literally predicted the strawman response in the eventual reply he'd get, yet you still were more than happy to oblige.

Because he invited it. From his post, he appears to be perfectly content with the WINNING the team is doing. What winning? In the last 6 years, all they have accomplished is merely making it to the playoffs. Once there, they get beat in the early rounds. The reason for the post season losses is what escapes him, like a ton of other people on this forum. Carroll gets outcoached in the playoffs to the extent that it should be obvious to all. Last season against the Rams was the biggest example yet. The Rams came into the game with a half of a QB and their best defensive player probably at 50%. Pete brought the team in with pretty much the exact same game plan as they had just two weeks before when they played. Guess who didnt and was more prepared? McVay. Its been a trend for years now, but the most embarrassing point is that Pete couldnt comprehend how they lost. He flat out just didnt understand and admitted so in his presser. This has been going for years now and fans are still oblivious to it. Many are content with it and I just cant understand why. I feel sorry for the fans that think it will somehow be different in the future when it clearly wont.

THANK YOU! Pete Carroll is not a strategy type of coach, he has always gotten outsmarted, especially by sean mcvay. The only reason they win regular season games is because they have russell wilson. Pete Carroll was asked about his gameplan after the loss to the Bills, and you know what he said? "i didnt know they were gonna throw the ball" really? you didnt know this 6 foot 7 quarterback who knows seattle has a weak secondary was gonna throw the ball? its unreal, how long pete carroll has been an anchor to this team and NOBODY calls him out publicly.

him and adam gase arent they far off from each other, carroll is just lucky he has had wilson to cover his tracks.

 

[pittpnthrs]

What are they winning though? You bring up the playoffs, so the serious question is, what are you so happy about with the current direction of this team? They havent been real contenders for 6 years now and they wont be again next season (more than likely even less so). I guess the question is, do you only care about regular season success, because thats all you are going to get? If so, this is your team and I understand your jubilation. Some of us would like more than that or a change in the current trend which isnt going to happen with the current make up.

I love how Soulfish literally predicted the strawman response in the eventual reply he'd get, yet you still were more than happy to oblige.

Because he invited it. From his post, he appears to be perfectly content with the WINNING the team is doing. What winning? In the last 6 years, all they have accomplished is merely making it to the playoffs. Once there, they get beat in the early rounds. The reason for the post season losses is what escapes him, like a ton of other people on this forum. Carroll gets outcoached in the playoffs to the extent that it should be obvious to all. Last season against the Rams was the biggest example yet. The Rams came into the game with a half of a QB and their best defensive player probably at 50%. Pete brought the team in with pretty much the exact same game plan as they had just two weeks before when they played. Guess who didnt and was more prepared? McVay. Its been a trend for years now, but the most embarrassing point is that Pete couldnt comprehend how they lost. He flat out just didnt understand and admitted so in his presser. This has been going for years now and fans are still oblivious to it. Many are content with it and I just cant understand why. I feel sorry for the fans that think it will somehow be different in the future when it clearly wont.

THANK YOU! Pete Carroll is not a strategy type of coach, he has always gotten outsmarted, especially by sean mcvay. The only reason they win regular season games is because they have russell wilson. Pete Carroll was asked about his gameplan after the loss to the Bills, and you know what he said? "i didnt know they were gonna throw the ball" really? you didnt know this 6 foot 7 quarterback who knows seattle has a weak secondary was gonna throw the ball? its unreal, how long pete carroll has been an anchor to this team and NOBODY calls him out publicly.

him and adam gase arent they far off from each other, carroll is just lucky he has had wilson to cover his tracks.

Amen