Rumors are Russ is unhappy with O line.

[TheLegendOfBoom]

At some point, Seattle FO will get tired of Wilson.

Is Wilson, only a player?

Or is Wilson, a player who thinks he’s also an executive (due to his leverage as franchise QB)?

At some point, Carroll, is also going to get frustrated as well.

Carroll at some point will probably think, “Who do you think you are?”

I personally enjoy this soap opera that is Wilson’s camp vs Seattle’s FO.

Let’s see how this plays out. Lol.

Who does Russell Wilson think he is?

The man who is LITERALLY the reason Pete Carroll still has his job. The man who carried this team to winning seasons despite adversity for 8 years. The man who helped DK metcalf blossom into superstar status, spent almost the whole off season at his house, to help DK get better and develop chemistry.
The man who's jersey is one the most popular jersey while being on an unpopular team. People pay to see RUSSELL WILSON not pete carroll. Pete Carroll needs to get it together or get out of the way.

Well, Carroll hasn’t changed in how many years??

I don’t expect he will all of a sudden change and be Wilson’s puppet.

Carroll, ultimately, controls the direction of the team and if Wilson has had enough of him, Wilson will leave after his contract expires.

If that happens, I’m sure Carroll will call it quits himself.

 

[keasley45]

I would agree with you, but Russ did include himself as someone who needs to play better. If he just came out and said everyone else needs to get better then yeah, that's bad. But this is saying that everyone, including him and coaches, need to pick it up and be better and make adjustments.

Let's not forget, DK also said teams figured them out and they didn't make adjustments. So between him and Russ, and what Brandon Marshal was saying, I'm thinking more than a few players want adjustments from management on how the offense is run.

That's true, he did include himself and to be fair to Russ, I think him trying to say 'I'm tired of being hit' might have been his way of trying to somewhat change what was originally reported as a specific criticism of the O-Line into sort of a general commentary against failures of the entire offense (which is what I hope he was trying to do even if it still kind of comes off as a crit of the O-Line).

And as I said, the primary culprit for our problems, to me, still lie with Pete. That doesn't change what Russ failed to do (and some of the takes I see trying to protect his failure to complete accurate and timely short and middle reads by referencing their magical spot in the progression or his failure to make pre-snap adjustments to his reads as if that's something a HOF level QB shouldn't be expected are ridiculous), but our entire offensive philosophy has needed change for multiple seasons now.

That's going to require Pete to develop the humility to finally accept that he doesn't know how to run an offense and never has and I think Russ is also going to have to accept some changes to an offense that hopefully will not be asking him to make highlight reel plays on such a regular basis.


Overall, I personally just think the O-Line has been too much of a scapegoat for our problems this year. I'm not saying we shouldn't want better than average (which is what our O-Line mostly was, slightly better than average during the early part of the season before every team started dropping two high safeties on us every play, every game) but we also can't act like average OL play leads to some of the worst QB pressure and hit rates in the league. The difference needs to be laid at the feet of our scheme and yes, to some degree, our QB.

Great post!! This is a complex situation with a number of 'actors' contributing to the results we've seen over the years now. You can't just scapegoat one person or group, whether it's Russ, Pete, the OC, the O-line. Nor can you place any one above criticism.. They all have strengths and faults that sometimes mask the others shortcomings but at other times exacerbate them.

I'm personally not a fan of Russ leaving, nor am I a fan of him implying that him getting hit is (maybe) someone else's issue to fix. Everybody needs to be better and hopefully learn from this situation. Pete needs to evolve a bit. Russ needs to run the plays and hit the yards that are there for him. The OC needs to be a bit more creative / aggressive, whether running or passing. And the OLine... they just need to build on what they did last year. They were slightly better than middle of the pack. Continuity and another piece should help. The key to it all lies between Pete, Russ, John, and Shane.

This thing is at a tipping point and it can go either way. The team will either come out of this better than they were before or change into something else and God knows what the results of that transition will be.

Part of me thinks all the mad talk from Russ is him trying to leverage his position to force what he wants... and at the same time push the faults of last year away from himself. I don't like it, but it's the same thing Aaron Rogers did and it got him some of what he wanted.

Another part of me thinks (and this is entirely reading between the lines / shooting at the moon) that maybe the first initial meetings between Waldron, Pete and Russ somehow haven't gone well. Who's zoom'n who? I'm not sure. Could be that Waldron and Pete are aligned and Russ doesn't like it and is taking this passive aggressive tact. Could be that Russ and Wally (yup. Just made that up) are aligned and want to make sure the O is run more aggressively, so subtly forcing Pete's hand.
Or it could be that Waldron has come in and having played the hawks now for a few seasons and looking at our offense from a passing game coordinators eyes, sees some weaknesses in Russ's game that he doesn't like and has tipped the possibility of trading russ for someone he feels can run what he feels he wants to do.

It's just odd some of the stuff that has come out of Wilsons mouth since seasons end. The declaration that he still thinks he's a great QB in this league had an odd ring. A very defensive ring. And that was before the Waldron hire. Then all the talk since... something is definitely afoot. Just hope they can work it out.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

Just going to leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGA0QdESBhc

Only 2 players come to mind that should have a seat at the table Tom Brady & Peyton Manning and I believe those 2 would not meddle outside the offense.

 

[TraderGary]

Some excellent points in this thread.

The biggest thing that strikes me about Wilson's comments about the O-line is that this is completely out of character for him based on everything we've seen from him in the past. He has always been a company guy, always towing the company line, as least publicly.

So that begs the question, what is he trying to accomplish with this? There's no doubt this is a power move from Russ, but for what purpose?

When being asked if he was available, and then answering "that's a Seahawks question", even though he has a no-trade clause in his contract, indicates to me he is trying to force a trade, or at the very least, is open to one unless some changes are made to his liking.

I love Russ, and I would hate to see him leave. But part of me would really enjoy seeing what he could do in an offense built for today's NFL, and built around Wilson's greatest strengths, something we have never seen in his time here.

I desperately want to believe we will see that next year with the Waldron hire, and I definitely think the potential for that is there. But as long as Pete is in Seattle, I don't feel very confident about it. I don't see him ever getting out of the way and giving his OC full autonomy no matter who it is, let alone a rookie OC.

And for those who are saying.... if this comes down to a power struggle between Pete and Russ, Pete should be the one to go..... well as much as I would like to see that, I can't see ownership firing Pete after just inking him to a shiny new 5-year extension, no matter how much money she has. It's just not realistic.

I doubt we've seen the last of this development. Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[zchurch74]

My .05 cents

Never have liked Russ(go back and check posts) he is an above average QB. He has one only won one big game for us. He has won games but hasn’t been there in the clutch when we need him. He doesn’t deserve the money he makes. He is too worried about shot off the field. He holds the ball way too long. I’d say at least 25% of sacks are on him not getting the ball to a wide open receiver. Yes, let’s finally admit his height has something to do with it. Yes I wouldn’t be against trading him. I’m ok with a losing season or two to start a rebuild but it won’t happen. Russ and Pete will never see eye to eye. There is a culture issue in Seattle or a lack or culture. The team is not 100% on the same page. Pete’s not even sure what he wants to do. Pete’s philosophies need to go. They are out dated and don’t work in today’s game.

And yea Paul G sucks and is why I listen to 950 now.

 

[MrThortan]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1359215802755346432[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1359202464411443200[/tweet]

I don't really see anything wrong about his statements. It is a little out of character for the Mr. Positive, kumbaya he has been for his whole career. There is plenty of blame to go around; Russ, the offensive linemen and their coach, the OC, Pete, and even John Schneider. They are each a part of the puzzle. One could speculate which is the biggest factor here, but I suppose the most successful teams know how to compensate for their deficiencies.

 

[Ramfan128]

It is so WILD reading this. I swear you guys by and large are more critical of Wilson than Rams fans were of Goff - yes, that's an insult to some of you.

I don't like giving wins and losses to a QB, but the talent in Seattle has been falling off for years and this surefire hall of fame QB who has made magical plays his whole career has put the franchise on his shoulders in the past five years. Trade Wilson for an average QB and Seattle would have had a string of top 5 picks the last few years.

Carroll is the problem IMO. I don't know the situation like you guys do but it seems like Carroll wants to play a certain way and hasn't adjusted to having weaker personnel but a stronger QB.

Wilson is free to do what he wants, obviously, but I don't think he's handling this well. Let Russ Cook was basically a passive aggressive message to Carroll, requesting/demanding that the offense be changed. Now this feels like a passive aggressive dig at Carroll's team building.

If Wilson can't get through to Carroll this way, I think he needs to sit down and let him have it.

Carroll is a mediocre coach without Wilson. Maybe worse. We all had/have Belichick as the best coach of all time and Brady leaves and casually strolls through the NFC in route to a Super Bowl. Id point this out to Carroll - when you have a QB of that caliber, they're far more important than the coach.

The Colts have the room for Wilson and I would offer Seattle every draft pick for the next 2-3 years, because that team with Wilson would not lose. Not a single game.

 

[NJlargent]

Ramfan is right on. My thoughts on this exactly as well

 

[strohmin]

I've been criticizing Russ since after
er the superbowl but I am glad he is calling out Carolls BS. That was my problem with Russ. I always felt like he was just going along with the same BS that Caroll feeds leading to the same results every year. Russ needs to put his foot down and act more entitled to drive us to another superbowl win. I have just gained more respect for Russ after hearing this.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Some excellent points in this thread.

The biggest thing that strikes me about Wilson's comments about the O-line is that this is completely out of character for him based on everything we've seen from him in the past. He has always been a company guy, always towing the company line, as least publicly.

So that begs the question, what is he trying to accomplish with this? There's no doubt this is a power move from Russ, but for what purpose?

When being asked if he was available, and then answering "that's a Seahawks question", even though he has a no-trade clause in his contract, indicates to me he is trying to force a trade, or at the very least, is open to one unless some changes are made to his liking.

I love Russ, and I would hate to see him leave. But part of me would really enjoy seeing what he could do in an offense built for today's NFL, and built around Wilson's greatest strengths, something we have never seen in his time here.

I desperately want to believe we will see that next year with the Waldron hire, and I definitely think the potential for that is there. But as long as Pete is in Seattle, I don't feel very confident about it. I don't see him ever getting out of the way and giving his OC full autonomy no matter who it is, let alone a rookie OC.

And for those who are saying.... if this comes down to a power struggle between Pete and Russ, Pete should be the one to go..... well as much as I would like to see that, I can't see ownership firing Pete after just inking him to a shiny new 5-year extension, no matter how much money she has. It's just not realistic.

I doubt we've seen the last of this development. Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

You can only tow the company line for so long without feeling you should have a say in how things should be done. Most people that have given decades to a company will eventually succumb to think if their value isn’t worthy of some say, it’s time to move on.

 

[jammerhawk]

Watching KC on O on Sunday was a lot like watching RW run around trying to find an open receiver with less than effective OLine protection and two high safety coverage. It was clear TB had an answer for KC’s run and shoot passing game with two deep S play and their very strong pass rush. Tampa had no effective running attack.

Listening to post game analysis KC’s run game was taken away once they got behind so TB could slide into the two deep coverage taking away their quick strike D. Back to the thread’s premise, it could hardly be said that KC got stellar OLine play from their battered OLine as Mahommes was forced to run almost 500 yards to try to create magic, he got rubbed a lot.
This was a lot like Wilson. Thing is Wilson has this problem more often than Mahommes and was beset with pressure up the middle except when Brown and Shell were out, then it came from everywhere. The two O’s looked very similar in those moment as KC had neither starting OT and Tamps’s DLine played very well. It was obvious to us HAwks fans we were watching a RW clone with a more creative arm repeat what we have been forced to watch for too long and RW had had to endure.

When Pete points out the team needs to be more effective running the ball it is for the reason that the two deep S Defenses will get burned if they fail to respect a running attack which is effective. That reality will open up the deep passing game too and allow RW to be rubbed less if there is a faster O which allows him to not have to be a constant magician deep. I frankly think many here fail to understand that Pete just wants the O to be effective and starts with running effectively.

Is it scheme, crappy OLine play, poor creativity in scheming, slow developing plays, poor running, Pete ball, RW not processing fast enough, or an unfortunate combination of it all that ended RWs cooking period this season? I suspect it was all of that. It is clear though RW is getting rubbed pretty often and hard and the FO needs to fix this. The team needs to improve the LG and C play to stop or really limit Donald’s frequent trips to hammer RW.

I think if the team fixes the interior OLine there’s a huge combination effect that will help the running game and will will allow play action effectiveness and RW will be rubbed less. Pete is right but it depends on fixing the OLine, being more creative with thenO and having a quicker O, and RW getting the ball out faster. Those huge chunk plays will open up too.

 

[A_Biased_Fan]

I've been criticizing Russ since after
er the superbowl but I am glad he is calling out Carolls BS. That was my problem with Russ. I always felt like he was just going along with the same BS that Caroll feeds leading to the same results every year. Russ needs to put his foot down and act more entitled to drive us to another superbowl win. I have just gained more respect for Russ after hearing this.

There was a great shot in this last Super Bowl of Brady screaming at the sideline, "No, No, No" because they were trying to bring a new personnel group in and he demanded they keep the same play. He won that battle, and they scored a TD on the next play.

Oh how we all wish Russ had stood up to Bevell's playcall in Super Bowl 49 in the same way. Well now he's standing up for what he thinks is a better offensive gameplan and some people don't like it.

 

[TraderGary]

Some excellent points in this thread.

The biggest thing that strikes me about Wilson's comments about the O-line is that this is completely out of character for him based on everything we've seen from him in the past. He has always been a company guy, always towing the company line, as least publicly.

So that begs the question, what is he trying to accomplish with this? There's no doubt this is a power move from Russ, but for what purpose?

When being asked if he was available, and then answering "that's a Seahawks question", even though he has a no-trade clause in his contract, indicates to me he is trying to force a trade, or at the very least, is open to one unless some changes are made to his liking.

I love Russ, and I would hate to see him leave. But part of me would really enjoy seeing what he could do in an offense built for today's NFL, and built around Wilson's greatest strengths, something we have never seen in his time here.

I desperately want to believe we will see that next year with the Waldron hire, and I definitely think the potential for that is there. But as long as Pete is in Seattle, I don't feel very confident about it. I don't see him ever getting out of the way and giving his OC full autonomy no matter who it is, let alone a rookie OC.

And for those who are saying.... if this comes down to a power struggle between Pete and Russ, Pete should be the one to go..... well as much as I would like to see that, I can't see ownership firing Pete after just inking him to a shiny new 5-year extension, no matter how much money she has. It's just not realistic.

I doubt we've seen the last of this development. Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

You can only tow the company line for so long without feeling you should have a say in how things should be done. Most people that have given decades to a company will eventually succumb to think if their value isn’t worthy of some say, it’s time to move on.

I agree, and I'm happy to see Russ taking a more proactive role and voicing his opinions. I think it was long overdue. He's been carrying this franchise on his shoulders pretty much pretty much the entire time he's been a Seahawk.

I also agree with "Ramfan" that Carroll is a mediocre coach at best, and without Russ, we would be consistently drafting in the top 10 year after year.

 

[TraderGary]

It is so WILD reading this. I swear you guys by and large are more critical of Wilson than Rams fans were of Goff - yes, that's an insult to some of you.

I don't like giving wins and losses to a QB, but the talent in Seattle has been falling off for years and this surefire hall of fame QB who has made magical plays his whole career has put the franchise on his shoulders in the past five years. Trade Wilson for an average QB and Seattle would have had a string of top 5 picks the last few years.

Carroll is the problem IMO. I don't know the situation like you guys do but it seems like Carroll wants to play a certain way and hasn't adjusted to having weaker personnel but a stronger QB.

Wilson is free to do what he wants, obviously, but I don't think he's handling this well. Let Russ Cook was basically a passive aggressive message to Carroll, requesting/demanding that the offense be changed. Now this feels like a passive aggressive dig at Carroll's team building.

If Wilson can't get through to Carroll this way, I think he needs to sit down and let him have it.

Carroll is a mediocre coach without Wilson. Maybe worse. We all had/have Belichick as the best coach of all time and Brady leaves and casually strolls through the NFC in route to a Super Bowl. Id point this out to Carroll - when you have a QB of that caliber, they're far more important than the coach.

The Colts have the room for Wilson and I would offer Seattle every draft pick for the next 2-3 years, because that team with Wilson would not lose. Not a single game.

Good stuff Ramfan, and I completely agree with this entire post.

 

[HawkinNY]

Maybe the lack of a consistent quality OL over his career has forced Wilson into developing bad habits from having to ad-lib too often . Or he is too damned short .

I do think he has trouble seeing the middle of the field. ESP when team rush straight up the middle on him. I just think Russ will never take the blame for the teams bad offense. Remember the LOB complained about the team babying him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The same LOB that NEVER took blame for 49? Not even a little bit?
Yeah, god forbid a QB voice his opinion that he's tired of getting blasted behind a crap o-line. And he didn't even do it in a Watson or Rodgers type of way.
But hey, we have over a month til Free Agency, so 173 new threads about Russ should keep us busy 8)

 

[getnasty]

Thoughts

1. OL was not a problem this year.

2. Why as a Franchise QB would you throw your OL under.
the bus?

3. Man up and say what you want in house, if that does
happen then publicly stat your displeasure.

4. Plenty of talent around him on offense

5. Feel like this is more about growing the Russell brand and small market Seattle doesn't work for that.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The O Line wasn't a problem? They got flat out owned on both sides of the line when it mattered, in the playoffs.
Play calling was absolutely a problem. Pass blocking was a joke in quite a few games.
And I'm not dismissing Russ from playing better either. He, along with the entire offense, needs to play better.
But the play calling was pathetic. Along with zero attempt to even adjust to what the opponent was throwing at them.

 

[massari]

Thoughts

1. OL was not a problem this year.

3. Man up and say what you want in house, if that does
happen then publicly stat your displeasure.

The OL was a problem.

Maybe he has been saying these things in house and they weren't listening to him.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1359282094229381123[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1359291360763916298[/tweet]

 

[SoulfishHawk]

/thread