Russ MVP

[RiverDog]

I think it is painfully obvious at this point that he is at least as valuable to the Seahawks success as any other player in the NFL is to the success of their team. That he hasn't won an MVP is a crime.

With all due respect, how can any fan with a football IQ as high as yours characterize Russell Wilson's failure to win an MVP a "crime"? Russell not only hasn't won an MVP, but he also hasn't received so much as a single vote. If it was such an egregious crime, wouldn't at least one writer out of the 50 who cast votes have recognized this outrageous oversight and voted for him?

When was it that this "crime" occurred? Which year was it and which player won the award when in your opinion Russell should have?

 

[Cyrus12]

Name is John, but I am 64. The bigger question is why do you let someone who has not posted in 2 years crawl around in your head?

Calling me John63 is and will always be an attack on the poster.

Okay..stop John64?

 

[Lagartixa]

Move to Denver...become a Bronco's fan, covet Wilson and don't let the door smack you in the BUTT.... just sayin... LOL

LTH

I have no idea where @John63 lives, but he already did become a Broncos fan and left here. Even in the spring of 2022, he was referring to the Broncos as "we" on the Broncos Country message boards while still hanging around here and attacking the Seahawks organization. Hilarity ensued when @John63 slipped once in a discussion of XLVIII over on the Broncos boards and referred to the Seahawks as "we," confusing the crap out of his fellow Broncos fans. Anyway, @John63 hasn't posted on .NET since the 22nd of September of last year, and he hasn't even logged in here since the 7th of October of last year.

You can find him on the Broncos Country message boards as user Deandc.

Wilson is very likely to be cut in the first quarter of next year. If Wilson is still on the Broncos' roster on the fifth day of the 2024 NFL league year, which I believe will be St. Patrick's Day, then the Broncos have to fully guarantee Wilson's $37M 2025 salary and $55.4M 2025 cap number. Because I really dislike the Broncos, I'd love for that to happen, but nobody other than the Russellettes believes it will. The reason I mention this is because I think it'll be interesting to see two things once Wilson is unemployed late in this coming winter:

1. Will Wilson be willing to take what NFL teams will be willing to offer him at that point, which will be essentially (even if not nominally) a one-year "prove-it" contract that puts him in the bottom quartile of starting-QB pay?
2. If Wilson is willing to take such a contract, will @John63 follow Wilson to yet another team and continue to insist that Wilson is a top-level QB headed for the Hall of Fame?

I respect @John63 for admitting he was a Wilson fan and not a Seahawks fan. Some of his fellow Russellettes have not been that honest with themselves.

@John63 wanted to stay around here and taunt us about how great Wilson and the Broncos were doing and how badly the Seahawks were doing, but by late September of last year it was clear that... well, Wilson without Carroll's Wilson-protecting system (that the Russellettes insisted on calling "Peteball" when a more-correct name for it would have been "Russball") utterly sucks, and even under Payton's version of Russball, Wilson's got a good passer rating because the intended air yards on his average throw are 27th in the league and down by over two yards from last year (and his average air yards per completion is currently below five yards, also "good" for 27th in the league), plus Wilson is currently 23rd and falling in passing attempts per game and passing yards per game, while the Broncos are 29th in the league in total passing yards. The discrepancy is because Wilson is so far down that some of the QBs who haven't played the whole season push him up the attempts-per-game and yards-per-game tables. Payton has made the decision to keep the Broncos' passing offense low-risk and low-return (fewer and shorter passes), which is about the best anyone can do with Wilson at this point.

 

[JustTheTip]

With all due respect, how can any fan with a football IQ as high as yours characterize Russell Wilson's failure to win an MVP a "crime"? Russell not only hasn't won an MVP, but he also hasn't received so much as a single vote. If it was such an egregious crime, wouldn't at least one writer out of the 50 who cast votes have recognized this outrageous oversight and voted for him?

When was it that this "crime" occurred? Which year was it and which player won the award when in your opinion Russell should have?

I will assume you understand the difference between literal and figurative so we can move forward with a conversation. That being a valid assumption, there was no need for you to treat my use of the word crime in the way you did.

I, of course, don't know why he never received a single vote. But that he didn't can be used to make my point as much as the one you are trying to make. Maybe there is that much East Coast/legacy bias. Maybe there is that much bias against non-prototypical (read short) QBs. Maybe people saw through his phony front and didn't want to vote for him because of that.

There are plenty of articles out there about this, but I will stick to three quotes from one of those:

How has Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson never received an MVP vote?

Despite being one of the best players in the game, no voter has ever given Russell Wilson an MVP vote. Here's a look at why, and how it could change.

www.espn.com

"
2019: Lamar Jackson (50)
2018: Patrick Mahomes (41), Drew Brees (9)
2017: Tom Brady (40), Todd Gurley (8), Carson Wentz (2)
2016: Matt Ryan (25), Tom Brady (10), Ezekiel Elliott (6), Derek Carr (6), Aaron Rodgers (2), Dak Prescott (1)
2015: Cam Newton (48), Carson Palmer (1), Tom Brady (1)
2014: Aaron Rodgers (31), J.J. Watt (13), DeMarco Murray (2), Tony Romo (2), Tom Brady (1), Bobby Wagner (1)
2013: Peyton Manning (49), Tom Brady (1)
2012: Adrian Peterson (30.5), Peyton Manning (19.5)
"
I would contend that Wilson was more important to his team than both Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo were in 2014. Of course, the defense was more important to the 2014 Seahawks than Wilson was. Was Wagner, as an individual, more important than Wilson? I don't think so, but the argument can easily be made. I personally think Kam was the piece uniting the defense in those years.

More importantly, this article looks at the 2017 season:

"Wilson might have been the league's most valuable player in the truest sense in 2017, but not the one that tends to matter to voters. He led the league with 34 touchdown passes and accounted for 37 of the Seahawks' 38 offensive TDs as well as 86% of their scrimmage yards, an NFL record for a single player in the Super Bowl era."

and finally

"Since Wilson entered the league in 2012, only five times has a player received an MVP vote on a team that won fewer than 12 games, illustrating the weight that team success carries in voting. Seattle hasn't topped 11 wins since 2014."

If you combine all of these factors, you start to get a picture of why.

 

[Aircrew]

I think it is painfully obvious at this point that he is at least as valuable to the Seahawks success as any other player in the NFL is to the success of their team. That he hasn't won an MVP is a crime.

Thanks, I was having a crappy morning, I needed a good laugh.

 

[JustTheTip]

You all do realize that the post you are quoting was over two years ago. Though the complete dumpster fire he has become since only slightly impacts the statement.

 

[Lagartixa]

I think it is painfully obvious at this point that he is at least as valuable to the Seahawks success as any other player in the NFL is to the success of their team. That he hasn't won an MVP is a crime.

Thanks, I was having a crappy morning, I needed a good laugh.

He said that in 2021.
Even so, he's not wrong about Wilson contributing to the Seahawks' success. Now, at least.

Wilson (with a little help from Schneider and the suckers in the Broncos front office) brought the Seahawks Drew Lock, Noah Fant, a season of Shelby Harris, and picks that turned into Charles Cross, Boye Mafe, Devon Witherspoon, Derrick Hall, Tyreke Smith, and Dareke Young. The Seahawks made the playoffs last season and are currently 6-3, and owe at least some of that success to Wilson both because of the "addition through subtraction" of getting him off the Seahawks roster (and salary cap!) and because of all the players the team got for him.
Plus Wilson did a giant favor for those of us who still really dislike the Broncos by going to what had been a Broncos team on the rise and pushing them back to the really-ought-to-tear-it-down-and-start-over phase of the pro-sports-team success cycle.

 

[Ostatehawk]

MVP possibilities aside (and very unlikely) I am stunned that Tater has appeared to be fairly diligent in following his coaches game plan thus far. He is handing off and making checkdown throws (at least in recent games) at a rate that astonishes me. I honestly thought he would be benched by now for going unauthorized "Hero Ball".

 

[hgwellz12]

Okay..stop John64?

he kinda just left that one lingering near the rim

 

[themunn]

Russell Wilson is the undisputed champ of half-season of MVP play.

I agree that 2017 was probably his most valuable year given that's the year that our leading running back was Mike Davis with 240 yards.

Brady winning it that year was a bit of a cop-out

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Interesting that Braxton Jones graded 75.4, which is better than both of them, and still I have people on the Bears forum who want to spend one of the Bears two top-10 draft picks on a left tackle. I also noted that Bears rookie tackle Darnell Wright has same PFF grade as Cross.

 

[knownone]

It's hard to pick one season where Russ should have gotten a vote. 2017 was his best year statistically, but we went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Unfortunately, his best seasons coincided with some all-time great statistical seasons. For example, Russ was excellent in '18, '19, and '20, but Mahomes had 51 TDs, Lamar had 43, and Rodgers had 51.

 

[Ozzy]

I will assume you understand the difference between literal and figurative so we can move forward with a conversation. That being a valid assumption, there was no need for you to treat my use of the word crime in the way you did.

I, of course, don't know why he never received a single vote. But that he didn't can be used to make my point as much as the one you are trying to make. Maybe there is that much East Coast/legacy bias. Maybe there is that much bias against non-prototypical (read short) QBs. Maybe people saw through his phony front and didn't want to vote for him because of that.

There are plenty of articles out there about this, but I will stick to three quotes from one of those:

How has Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson never received an MVP vote?

Despite being one of the best players in the game, no voter has ever given Russell Wilson an MVP vote. Here's a look at why, and how it could change.

www.espn.com

"
2019: Lamar Jackson (50)
2018: Patrick Mahomes (41), Drew Brees (9)
2017: Tom Brady (40), Todd Gurley (8), Carson Wentz (2)
2016: Matt Ryan (25), Tom Brady (10), Ezekiel Elliott (6), Derek Carr (6), Aaron Rodgers (2), Dak Prescott (1)
2015: Cam Newton (48), Carson Palmer (1), Tom Brady (1)
2014: Aaron Rodgers (31), J.J. Watt (13), DeMarco Murray (2), Tony Romo (2), Tom Brady (1), Bobby Wagner (1)
2013: Peyton Manning (49), Tom Brady (1)
2012: Adrian Peterson (30.5), Peyton Manning (19.5)
"
I would contend that Wilson was more important to his team than both Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo were in 2014. Of course, the defense was more important to the 2014 Seahawks than Wilson was. Was Wagner, as an individual, more important than Wilson? I don't think so, but the argument can easily be made. I personally think Kam was the piece uniting the defense in those years.

More importantly, this article looks at the 2017 season:

"Wilson might have been the league's most valuable player in the truest sense in 2017, but not the one that tends to matter to voters. He led the league with 34 touchdown passes and accounted for 37 of the Seahawks' 38 offensive TDs as well as 86% of their scrimmage yards, an NFL record for a single player in the Super Bowl era."

and finally

"Since Wilson entered the league in 2012, only five times has a player received an MVP vote on a team that won fewer than 12 games, illustrating the weight that team success carries in voting. Seattle hasn't topped 11 wins since 2014."

If you combine all of these factors, you start to get a picture of why.

I would also argue there were two years Wilson had a strong case to be the MVP and in 2015 he was better than Newton but again was on the west coast and in 2017 you could make a case like the quote above did.

 

[Ozzy]

It's hard to pick one season where Russ should have gotten a vote. 2017 was his best year statistically, but we went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Unfortunately, his best seasons coincided with some all-time great statistical seasons. For example, Russ was excellent in '18, '19, and '20, but Mahomes had 51 TDs, Lamar had 43, and Rodgers had 51.

The year Newton won I think Russ was better unless I'm getting the years mixed up.

 

[Lagartixa]

MVP possibilities aside (and very unlikely) I am stunned that Tater has appeared to be fairly diligent in following his coaches game plan thus far. He is handing off and making checkdown throws (at least in recent games) at a rate that astonishes me. I honestly thought he would be benched by now for going unauthorized "Hero Ball".

Given his contract situation, he's currently auditioning for teams that will be desperate for a QB in the offseason.

 

[RiverDog]

I will assume you understand the difference between literal and figurative so we can move forward with a conversation. That being a valid assumption, there was no need for you to treat my use of the word crime in the way you did.

I, of course, don't know why he never received a single vote. But that he didn't can be used to make my point as much as the one you are trying to make. Maybe there is that much East Coast/legacy bias. Maybe there is that much bias against non-prototypical (read short) QBs. Maybe people saw through his phony front and didn't want to vote for him because of that.

There are plenty of articles out there about this, but I will stick to three quotes from one of those:

How has Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson never received an MVP vote?

Despite being one of the best players in the game, no voter has ever given Russell Wilson an MVP vote. Here's a look at why, and how it could change.

www.espn.com

"
2019: Lamar Jackson (50)
2018: Patrick Mahomes (41), Drew Brees (9)
2017: Tom Brady (40), Todd Gurley (8), Carson Wentz (2)
2016: Matt Ryan (25), Tom Brady (10), Ezekiel Elliott (6), Derek Carr (6), Aaron Rodgers (2), Dak Prescott (1)
2015: Cam Newton (48), Carson Palmer (1), Tom Brady (1)
2014: Aaron Rodgers (31), J.J. Watt (13), DeMarco Murray (2), Tony Romo (2), Tom Brady (1), Bobby Wagner (1)
2013: Peyton Manning (49), Tom Brady (1)
2012: Adrian Peterson (30.5), Peyton Manning (19.5)
"
I would contend that Wilson was more important to his team than both Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo were in 2014. Of course, the defense was more important to the 2014 Seahawks than Wilson was. Was Wagner, as an individual, more important than Wilson? I don't think so, but the argument can easily be made. I personally think Kam was the piece uniting the defense in those years.

More importantly, this article looks at the 2017 season:

"Wilson might have been the league's most valuable player in the truest sense in 2017, but not the one that tends to matter to voters. He led the league with 34 touchdown passes and accounted for 37 of the Seahawks' 38 offensive TDs as well as 86% of their scrimmage yards, an NFL record for a single player in the Super Bowl era."

and finally

"Since Wilson entered the league in 2012, only five times has a player received an MVP vote on a team that won fewer than 12 games, illustrating the weight that team success carries in voting. Seattle hasn't topped 11 wins since 2014."

If you combine all of these factors, you start to get a picture of why.

Yes, I know the difference between literal and figurative usage of terms, and I assume you know as well as I do that in the absence of any kind of visual cues like facial expressions and tone of voice where all we have to rely on is text, that we strive to be as literally accurate as possible when we compose our posts. I assumed that you meant what you wrote, that you considered it some sort of travesty or outrage that Russell never won an MVP award. So before we go on with our conversation, my suggestion to you is that you use a little more care in how you choose your terms if you don't want your thoughts to be misinterpreted. They were your words, not mine.

In my opinion, team success is an absolute prerequisite for an MVP award, and in my mind, unless a team makes it to at least the conference championship game, it eliminates any player not in it from consideration. That would mean that the only two seasons where Russell should have been considered would have been in 2013 and 2014, and in those seasons, our defense was so good that the quarterback was not the essential ingredient in success. And yes, I understand that not all MVP winners made it to the conference championship game. I'm just telling you how I would cast my vote if I had one. A person has to ask themselves where that team would be without them. If JJ Watt's Houston Texans didn't even make the playoffs, it's hard to argue that he's the most valuable player in the entire league. DPOY yes, MVP no.

In 2013 and 2014, Russell was for us like Brad Johnson was to the Bucs and Trent Dilfer was to the Ravens. Those teams had such good defenses that they didn't rely on their quarterback to win games for them nearly to the same degree as the Panthers did with Cam Newton, the Falcons with Matt Ryan, or the Broncos with Peyton Manning.

I apologize for the sarcasm in my previous comments, but the point I was trying to make was that Russell has never received even the slightest consideration for an MVP award for a reason. You made a decent argument for a season or two, but the fact is that out of 50 sports writers, experts in their field and spread all across the country so an accusation of a team bias carries very little weight, not a single one of them bought it. You're showing your homerism.

 

[knownone]

The year Newton won I think Russ was better unless I'm getting the years mixed up.

Yeah. 2015. There's a case to be made there since he was incredibly efficient, and he was definitely the better QB. But, IIRC, Newton had like 5000 combined yards, 45 (-ish) TDs, and the Panthers went 15-1. So that might be another season where he just ran into an AP writer's dream candidate.

 

[Ozzy]

Yes, I know the difference between literal and figurative usage of terms, and I assume you know as well as I do that in the absence of any kind of visual cues like facial expressions and tone of voice where all we have to rely on is text, that we strive to be as literally accurate as possible when we compose our posts. I assumed that you meant what you wrote, that you considered it some sort of travesty or outrage that Russell never won an MVP award. So before we go on with our conversation, my suggestion to you is that you use a little more care in how you choose your terms if you don't want your thoughts to be misinterpreted. They were your words, not mine.

In my opinion, team success is an absolute prerequisite for an MVP award, and in my mind, unless a team makes it to at least the conference championship game, it eliminates any player not in it from consideration. That would mean that the only two seasons where Russell should have been considered would have been in 2013 and 2014, and in those seasons, our defense was so good that the quarterback was not the essential ingredient in success. And yes, I understand that not all MVP winners made it to the conference championship game. I'm just telling you how I would cast my vote if I had one. A person has to ask themselves where that team would be without them. If JJ Watt's Houston Texans didn't even make the playoffs, it's hard to argue that he's the most valuable player in the entire league. DPOY yes, MVP no.

In 2013 and 2014, Russell was for us like Brad Johnson was to the Bucs and Trent Dilfer was to the Ravens. Those teams had such good defenses that they didn't rely on their quarterback to win games for them nearly to the same degree as the Panthers did with Cam Newton, the Falcons with Matt Ryan, or the Broncos with Peyton Manning.

I apologize for the sarcasm in my previous comments, but the point I was trying to make was that Russell has never received even the slightest consideration for an MVP award for a reason. You made a decent argument for a season or two, but the fact is that out of 50 sports writers, experts in their field and spread all across the country so an accusation of a team bias carries very little weight, not a single one of them bought it. You're showing your homerism.

not to keep arguing over trivial stuff but the year we won the SB Wilson played a huge factor. His ability to run allowed them to take Lynch who was a good but not great runner up to that point and make him great....the zone read stuff they ran with Wilson and Lynch was so good and without Russ you can't run that. He also had multiple game winning drives that year, played fantastic in the playoffs and mistake free football. Not claiming that you think he wasn't a factor I just always take offense when someone says the QB didn't play a big role because he did. We don't make the SB without him that year regardless how good the defense was. That was a special team with all time great defense, a running game that was innovative and new and a QB who played his best football late in games and rarely made mistakes....every part of it was needed.

The SB game itself was so lopsided that maybe they win with me at QB but before that he played a massive role. I would also argue he was really good early in that game though too.

I just read your poitn about Russ being like DIlfer or Johnson.....that is a crazy statement. Go look up how productive those guys were and how productive Russ. I couldn't disagree any more than I do.

 

[Ozzy]

Ok I can't let that slide Trent Dilfer in his SB year had 12-11 TD/INT and 1500 yards lol. I'll post the stats of Wilson if needed but in 2014 he had almost 900 yards rushing alone lol

We gotta stop with this Russ is trash or just any other guy while he was in Seattle. He was a monster for us.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Name is John, but I am 64. The bigger question is why do you let someone who has not posted in 2 years crawl around in your head?

Calling me John63 is and will always be an attack on the poster.

Happy birthday John64.